Kobe Bryant - What’s his legacy?

Proof for this claim:

Sorry I got the dates wrong. 1993 was the Jordan Chandler situation, but it was also the year when he merged with Sony. The later 2003 allegations were set up by Sony, which he and his lawyer both believed.

Here is a video of him publicly speaking out against tommy the owner of Sony
 
Tommy Mottola
Lives on the road
He lost his lady
Two months ago
Maybe he'll find her
Maybe he won't
 
I definitely was! I even defined it for you multiple times, strange that you failed to notice it. That's what the case was about, you know. That's what his statement was about, too.

Throughout the debate I maintained my position: the statement undeniably, 100% says that Kobe Bryant had a sexual encounter with a woman and that sexual encounter was not consensual. That the statement says this is absolutely and utterly unquestionable. It's not a matter of interpretation, it's written right there in black and white.

It is indeed not worth to continue to debate with someone who still cannot seem to accept this very simple truth.

Fecking hell, how thick are you? I don't think you have any idea what we are debating. You've been all over the place and contradicted yourself multiple times.

The very fact that you think "its written right there in black and white" goes to show just how irrational, illogical and closed minded you are. It's been fun.
 
Fecking hell, how thick are you? I don't think you have any idea what we are debating. You've been all over the place and contradicted yourself multiple times.

The very fact that you think "its written right there in black and white" goes to show just how irrational, illogical and closed minded you are. It's been fun.
Just try to remember to get consent if you ever have sex with someone, ok?

Also, ease off the insults. And get some reading comprehension classes, it will help a lot.
 
Fecking hell, how thick are you? I don't think you have any idea what we are debating. You've been all over the place and contradicted yourself multiple times.

The very fact that you think "its written right there in black and white" goes to show just how irrational, illogical and closed minded you are. It's been fun.

Why is it always objectively thick people who say this? Projection?
 
Sorry I got the dates wrong. 1993 was the Jordan Chandler situation, but it was also the year when he merged with Sony. The later 2003 allegations were set up by Sony, which he and his lawyer both believed.

Here is a video of him publicly speaking out against tommy the owner of Sony


So there’s zero actual evidence that Sony manufactured fake abuse allegations against MJ.
 
So there’s zero actual evidence that Sony manufactured fake abuse allegations against MJ.

The timing of his dispute with Sony and the allegations were too convenient. Plus the mother of G Alvaro who made the 2003 allegations was reported to have industry connections
 
Funny you should say that because there’s more evidence that he didn’t do it than the opposite
You were the one demanding evidence on MJ's sexual offences and then weren't concerned about proof when you were throwing your accusation at Sony.

That was the conversation that you are now taking the piss out of. Honestly, the shit on here is unbelievable at times.
 
Funny you should say that because there’s more evidence that he didn’t do it than the opposite

I’m not invested in the MJ guilty or not saga, just found it amusing you went from claiming an evidence-free conspiracy theory as fact in one post before demanding proof from @oates on a related matter a couples of posts after.
 
I’m not invested in the MJ guilty or not saga, just found it amusing you went from claiming an evidence-free conspiracy theory as fact in one post before demanding proof from @oates on a related matter a couples of posts after.
You perhaps need to check out who was having what convo with who.
 
You were the one demanding evidence on MJ's sexual offences and then weren't concerned about proof when you were throwing your accusation at Sony.

That was the conversation that you are now taking the piss out of. Honestly, the shit on here is unbelievable at times.
I’m not invested in the MJ guilty or not saga, just found it amusing you went from claiming an evidence-free conspiracy theory as fact in one post before demanding proof from @oates on a related matter a couples of posts after.

So do you guys think it’s a coincidence that the accusations happened so soon after his fall out with Sony? With Janet Alvaro (mother of the accuser) reportedly having industry links, and had in fact made accusations previously on others in the music industry? Because I think that’s proof in itself.
 
So do you guys think it’s a coincidence that the accusations happened so soon after his fall out with Sony? With Janet Alvaro (mother of the accuser) reportedly having industry links, and had in fact made accusations previously on others in the music industry? Because I think that’s proof in itself.
You were the one demanding proof, now you are making accusations without proof. It's laughable but I have no further interest in talking about Michael Jackson.
 
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Where as on this forum those who liked Kobe or watch basketball regularly take the opposite stance. I think you’ve been fairly balanced and about aware of the details, but several posters who have contributed to this thread in support of Kobe have clearly done so without having actually read up on the incident.
I like Kobe and love basketball but upon reading the victim's testimony and his apology after, I believe he raped her and was fortunate not to go to jail. The situation is sad and emphasizes the power dynamics at play with wealth and celebrity in the United States.
 
You are not alone
I think @Sara125 has just got a bit turned around and around somehow.

But Yes, that warm feeling being all like minded with the great Raoul. No, not quite yet. I still haven't gotten over your butchery of the original Kobe Thread. But I expect I'll get over it after a bit of time.
 
I like Kobe and love basketball but upon reading the victim's testimony and his apology after, I believe he raped her and was fortunate not to go to jail. The situation is sad and emphasizes the power dynamics at play with wealth and celebrity in the United States.

It should come as no surprise that this is the case. People get emotionally attached to people and aren't willing to believe they have the capacity to do wrong. That of course doesn't preclude the possibility that they in-fact didn't do anything wrong, or that said events that took place could be interpreted differently by various objective observers. The fact that the accuser rejected a trial will leave any sort of definitive conclusion eternally shrouded in doubt.
 
Per definition, anyone who entered this thread wants to discuss or at least have his say about his past.

Also, every podcast, in memoriam or tribute I've seen so far has mentioned the sexual assault allegations. It's certainly not swept under the rug by the media, neither should it be.
The problem arises with those who mention it but also, in the same breath, say something along the lines of "we're not defined by our worst moments" or "none of us are saints". I once called this dithering pensioner who reversed into my car a "stupid dumb sad old decaying cnut" and one time I parked in a family parking spot, realised my kid wasn't with me, and didn't move my car. I also pretend to be fast asleep some mornings when the baby wakes up and it's meant to be my turn to get up with him. Equating most people's worst moments with rape is something that goes completely against what we find acceptable in normal life, but for some reason we excuse it when talking about someone who just died. Which would be fine if the person wasn't also being deified - called a genius or a perfect family man - at the same time.

That, for me, is the point where I think people watch the news coverage and can no longer keep quiet. But that's just me and I respect if others feel differently because I'm on the fence about the whole thing anyway and still shout "Kobe" when throwing rolled up paper into the office bin.
 
The problem arises with those who mention it but also, in the same breath, say something along the lines of "we're not defined by our worst moments" or "none of us are saints". I once called this dithering pensioner who reversed into my car a "stupid dumb sad old decaying cnut" and one time I parked in a family parking spot, realised my kid wasn't with me, and didn't move my car. I also pretend to be fast asleep some mornings when the baby wakes up and it's meant to be my turn to get up with him in the morning. Equating most people's worst moments with rape is something that goes completely against what we find acceptable in normal life, but for some reason we excuse it when talking about someone who just died. Which would be fine if the person wasn't also being deified - called a genius or a perfect family man - at the same time.

That, for me, is the point where I think people watch the news coverage and can no longer keep quiet. But that's just me and I respect if others feel differently because I'm on the fence about the whole thing anyway and still shout "Kobe" when throwing rolled up paper into the office bin.

Maybe most of the people saying that about Bryant also have some moments where consent was withdrawn and they proceeded anyway.
 
Maybe most of the people saying that about Bryant also have some moments where consent was withdrawn and they proceeded anyway.
I can't remember her name but the rep from the WNBA on 5Live the day after he died was saying that he was a modern day *********** and visionary but that "we all have skeletons in our closet" in the same sentence. It took me a while to realise that she was talking about a fecking basketball player.
 
Some real cringe-worthy posts in this thread. So much mental gymnastics to defend an insanely rich athlete who did everything in his power to not go to jail. Just incredible.
 
I can't remember her name but the rep from the WNBA on 5Live the day after he died was saying that he was a modern day *********** and visionary but that "we all have skeletons in our closet" in the same sentence. It took me a while to realise that she was talking about a fecking basketball player.

Statements like these actually don't mean anything and in reality, are just PR talking points.
 
I can't remember her name but the rep from the WNBA on 5Live the day after he died was saying that he was a modern day *********** and visionary but that "we all have skeletons in our closet" in the same sentence. It took me a while to realise that she was talking about a fecking basketball player.

Its hard to pigeonhole him into being just a basketballer. He was very much a cultural icon as well, which tends to make people view him in a very different light than your average run of the mill athlete. Other than Jordan, he was probably on par with James in terms of cultural icon status.
 
Statements like these actually don't mean anything and in reality, are just PR talking points.
True, but they do rile people up. I always find that a lot of negative comments come in the face of sycophantic remarks, but maybe that's just me.
 
Its hard to pigeonhole him into being just a basketballer. He was very much a cultural icon as well, which tends to make people view him in a very different light than your average run of the mill athlete. Other than Jordan, he was probably on par with James in terms of cultural icon status.
True as well, but like I said I just tuned in and was amazed that after all of her comments she was talking about Kobe. I grew up watching the Lakers so you can imagine how I felt when I heard the news but her words just left me stunned.
 
True, but they do rile people up. I always find that a lot of negative comments come in the face of sycophantic remarks, but maybe that's just me.

It is meant to rile you up. Statements such as those in the context of news medium go hand in hand. It isn't an anomaly that you reacted in the way you did.
 
It is meant to rile you up. Statements such as those in the context of news medium go hand in hand. It isn't an anomaly that you reacted in the way you did.
I don't like being manipulated. This makes me so angry that I'm going to grab a diet coke and a beach holiday.
 
I like Kobe and love basketball but upon reading the victim's testimony and his apology after, I believe he raped her and was fortunate not to go to jail. The situation is sad and emphasizes the power dynamics at play with wealth and celebrity in the United States.
Because rape cases not involving rich or famous people often result in convictions?
2018 stats in the US:
"Based on correlating multiple data sources, RAINN (Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network) estimates that for every 1,000 rapes, 384 are reported to police, 57 result in an arrest, 11 are referred for prosecution, 7 result in a felony conviction, and 6 result in incarceration."

Rape cases are inherently hard to prosecute but it might at least change for the better. Reporting is getting more frequent, policing is becoming more transparent which means they can't just sweep rape cases away to improve their stats or just forget that they have to test a bunch of rape kits. Also social awareness means that perpetrators become "more aware of rape". It's weird to say but there is actually a decent number of rapes where the perpetrator doesn't feel like they did anything wrong. I'm sure some people on here have woken up after a one night stand not knowing how the last night was. Guess what, you were raped. Maybe you don't care and that's fine, no harm done apparently but there are people that do care and you can't dismiss that just because you feel like it was a consented affair.
 
It should come as no surprise that this is the case. People get emotionally attached to people and aren't willing to believe they have the capacity to do wrong. That of course doesn't preclude the possibility that they in-fact didn't do anything wrong, or that said events that took place could be interpreted differently by various objective observers. The fact that the accuser rejected a trial will leave any sort of definitive conclusion eternally shrouded in doubt.

Why must it be that people are emotionally attached and are unwilling to think someone is incapable of doing something wrong? I haven't seen much of that in this thread.

The most heartfelt tributes I've read have all acknowledged at the very least that there is a non zero possibility that something nefarious happened.
 
It's weird to say but there is actually a decent number of rapes where the perpetrator doesn't feel like they did anything wrong

They used to call that date rape. As if putting another word in front of rape made is a lesser offence.
 
I thought date rape was when someone you know raped you.

It's a logical interpretation then, right? Someone you know or even someone you just met, where a person could easily interpret that since you've ended up on their sofa, it's on?

Anyway, I think it doesn't get used anymore because people realized that rapists weren't always creepy weirdos emerging from the shadows or a van to attack women at random; they could be anyone, male or female.