Yeah. The "underdog" thing actually plays into exactly this scenario. When you're the underdog, you inherently get into System 1 and that leads you to rely solely on the counter. You're playing to defend as a team. You're basically limiting your demands from all players when you don't have the ball - catering to the weakest link. Then, when you do get it, you rely solely on a small group of players to do a single task - which can be drilled and which is easier as they're not facing many opponents (since they're behind the ball). The "mentality" ensures they defend as a unit - and even the small island of skill is relied upon to get the job done. That's why it's easier to build a counter-attacking system than any other.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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WTF are you taling about? This was Watford who is second from the bottom we played. Maguire and Lindelof controlling what? We could have conceded if not for a brilliant challenge by Shaw before we even scored. For the first few minutes they had no clue as to what was happening. Our defence was all over the place. AWB composed on the ball? You must have been watching a different match. Martial was always going to get better because he has the talent and ability and thats why he was bought. Fred was a Brasilian International who was in their WC squad and needed time to get settled in the PL. Shaw always had the talent and it was his fitness that was always questioned.
Look at Liepzig play. Nagelsemann is a much better coach than Ole by any strength of the imagination. Molde level coaching or Cardiff City level coaching is what he is.
Whatever your opinion is, it would be ridiculous to sack him now. If we are going to give him the sack we should wait till the end of the season.
We are in a crucial period with a lot of fixtures coming up, no manager would have the time to implement his tactics. It would probably upset the squad aswell because they seem to like Ole.
We are in a crucial period with a lot of fixtures coming up, no manager would have the time to implement his tactics. It would probably upset the squad aswell because they seem to like Ole.
Maddison
Grealish
Sancho/ winger
Striker.
We will challenge for the title next season with Ole.
Sounds like the board may actually be ready to spend the money.
Grealish
Sancho/ winger
Striker.
We will challenge for the title next season with Ole.
Sounds like the board may actually be ready to spend the money.
I really don't see the point in signing Graelish and Maddison? One is plenty, preferably the former. I'd be more concerned with getting a replacement for Matic.
Why are we still fighting for top 4 if he’s so bad at coaching?
And why are the squad playing for a bad coach?
And why are the squad playing for a bad coach?
we lost McT and Rashford. Pogba has been out forever.
Injuries.
We need a pretty strong second 11.
There are better ways to build a strong second 11 than by spending 80-100m each on two players who play in the same position.
I'm in a weird place exactly on the fence.
But I've never been Ole out. Personally the closest I've been is in an if-we-could-get-Nagelsman/Rose type hypothetical.
He's been dealing with a huge number of less-than-optimal elements that make it hard to judge what he says at face value.
Also, what Woodward did to the club does take about three to four summer windows to fix and there are some signs we're making progress on that front. This isn't exactly about the playing squad but rather the culture of money that Woodward built. The resultant squad being blotted by Pogbian mercenary-wannabe's is an incidental result of that misguiding hand.
One big element that is very rarely mentioned in all the abysmal tactics/Moyesian press conferences/weak squad discussions is that Ole has been in a 'winning' Manchester United dressing room.
This is something very very few people in the world truly understand. Winners who will do anything - up to and including accepting lower wages and/or passing to someone they absolutely loathe - to win. This is a very particular - even bizarre - environment that has very little to do with money/fame/image, and that can in fact can be ruined by even a little bit of that - something that SAF was very sensitive to. The good part of this is that once you get it started, it becomes a self-sustaining environment - many on the caf have heard the stories: Berbatov beside himself with joy at winning the title only to do a double-take at Giggs' nonchalance, Rio talking about the aftermath of the Agueroooo goal, etc.
Therefore I'm willing to give Ole the benefit of the doubt when he talks about the cultural reboot. Do I believe he can reconstruct some semblance of it? I have no idea. In fact for me personally there are some signs he might not be able to - particularly if he sanctioned the Rashford (and Martial? was that Ole too?) contracts and if he was serious in his comments about wages.
So that for me the is one thing I'd be willing to give him a chance on. If he can bring some of that back and undo some or even all of Woodward's damage, then I'll take poor tactics and the erstwhile annoyingly saccharine presser.
But I've never been Ole out. Personally the closest I've been is in an if-we-could-get-Nagelsman/Rose type hypothetical.
He's been dealing with a huge number of less-than-optimal elements that make it hard to judge what he says at face value.
Also, what Woodward did to the club does take about three to four summer windows to fix and there are some signs we're making progress on that front. This isn't exactly about the playing squad but rather the culture of money that Woodward built. The resultant squad being blotted by Pogbian mercenary-wannabe's is an incidental result of that misguiding hand.
One big element that is very rarely mentioned in all the abysmal tactics/Moyesian press conferences/weak squad discussions is that Ole has been in a 'winning' Manchester United dressing room.
This is something very very few people in the world truly understand. Winners who will do anything - up to and including accepting lower wages and/or passing to someone they absolutely loathe - to win. This is a very particular - even bizarre - environment that has very little to do with money/fame/image, and that can in fact can be ruined by even a little bit of that - something that SAF was very sensitive to. The good part of this is that once you get it started, it becomes a self-sustaining environment - many on the caf have heard the stories: Berbatov beside himself with joy at winning the title only to do a double-take at Giggs' nonchalance, Rio talking about the aftermath of the Agueroooo goal, etc.
Therefore I'm willing to give Ole the benefit of the doubt when he talks about the cultural reboot. Do I believe he can reconstruct some semblance of it? I have no idea. In fact for me personally there are some signs he might not be able to - particularly if he sanctioned the Rashford (and Martial? was that Ole too?) contracts and if he was serious in his comments about wages.
So that for me the is one thing I'd be willing to give him a chance on. If he can bring some of that back and undo some or even all of Woodward's damage, then I'll take poor tactics and the erstwhile annoyingly saccharine presser.
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Still, will be too costly to buy both Graelish and Maddison when we already have Bruno.
If we had no other shortcomings then maybe. But we do.
If we sell Pogba the funds should be used for a RW and DM.
If pogba leaves and we don't buy another creative midfildee then it would be exact same perilous situation as this season. Rely solely on one creative player throughout the season...just like we were in the beginning of this season.
Such a difficult question to answer - made even more difficult given that Pochetino seems available and eager - a stick or twist situation.
On one hand - yes performances have been below expectation and the league table shows as much but when you consider what Ole has been up against....
He has clearly been told he will be given time. This is evident from selling Lukaku, despite what everyone thinks of him - nobody sells a 15-20 goal striker with no replacement without having assurances. Sanchez like wise.
When you consider the players available to him, because he has set the wheels moving on a process that should have started long long ago by getting rid of the real dead wood, and injuries to key players of course.
Lingard and Perreira have probably played a lot more than he would have wanted. We lost Martial for a period and now have no Rashford.
I challenge any manager to mount a serious top 4 challenge with the likes of Matic, Fred, James, Lingard and Perreira being key features.
There are certain things that appear to have gone well, recruitment being one. When you watch how we perform in the big games, it is 100% clear that he has every single player on board. They carry out the game plan to a T.
So a large part of me wants to see what he can do with some proper 'United' standard players and hopefully he gets those in the summer.
Another part of me thinks is it would be best for Ole to move upstairs and be director of football and bring in Poch.
On one hand - yes performances have been below expectation and the league table shows as much but when you consider what Ole has been up against....
He has clearly been told he will be given time. This is evident from selling Lukaku, despite what everyone thinks of him - nobody sells a 15-20 goal striker with no replacement without having assurances. Sanchez like wise.
When you consider the players available to him, because he has set the wheels moving on a process that should have started long long ago by getting rid of the real dead wood, and injuries to key players of course.
Lingard and Perreira have probably played a lot more than he would have wanted. We lost Martial for a period and now have no Rashford.
I challenge any manager to mount a serious top 4 challenge with the likes of Matic, Fred, James, Lingard and Perreira being key features.
There are certain things that appear to have gone well, recruitment being one. When you watch how we perform in the big games, it is 100% clear that he has every single player on board. They carry out the game plan to a T.
So a large part of me wants to see what he can do with some proper 'United' standard players and hopefully he gets those in the summer.
Another part of me thinks is it would be best for Ole to move upstairs and be director of football and bring in Poch.
Agreed but we need to sign players that want to be here and have an attitude similar to Fernandes, otherwise we'll end up with another Pogba we've got to get shut of in a season or so. If the right targets aren't available we have to wait it out unfortunately.
Controling the ball like training sessions 
, might be true, doubt they are any better on a training pitch. Love when people watch United via livescore.
, might be true, doubt they are any better on a training pitch. Love when people watch United via livescore.Have stayed on keep despite the difficult season, with much of the difficulty out of Oles hands in my opinion.
Accept that the jury is out on whether he will be a top coach but unless things deteriorate significantly between now and May he should get another window and be judged on next season. Just need to add some more quality to the good team spirit thats building and ship out the malcontent.
Next season expectations wise we will need to be a comfortable top 4 with outside chance of a title challenge though.
Accept that the jury is out on whether he will be a top coach but unless things deteriorate significantly between now and May he should get another window and be judged on next season. Just need to add some more quality to the good team spirit thats building and ship out the malcontent.
Next season expectations wise we will need to be a comfortable top 4 with outside chance of a title challenge though.
Answer me!
Let him get into the top 4 position before we bring out the confetti. History tells us we're smack dab in the middle of our 3rd or 4th false dawn cycle this season.
Top 4 or no top 4 is not the only barometer for progress. We are seeing the start of what might be a really great team, but the likelihood is that it will take more time to see the best of it. That will still be the case whether we finish 3rd or 7th.
Any of our previous 3 managers could have been considered successful if they were given this overly generous criteria. There's more to the job than putting together a talented lot. Also worth stating Martial, Rashford, Mctominay, Fred are the combined product of the last 2 managers. I'm just putting this here because people talk about Ole having to deal with a mishmash of players from 3 managers when he's also reaping the positive of the youngsters they brought.
It's also worth stating that at least 3 of those 4 players are playing a lot better than in previous seasons. How much of that is down to the staff we will never know, but given what we are trying to do here it would be madness to change managers based on something that could be decided on as little as goal difference or a couple of points.
If i'm being honest I agree that top 4 shouldn't decide his fate. He should leave either way. Have seen enough in 14 months to know this isn't a Klopp or Pep. Those guys didn't just assemble talent, they did it within the context of their proven playing systems. The expectation that Ole can compete against modern managers without one is a bad gamble. The one that still irks me was the foolishness of Fletcher coming on radio to say we were building to take the PL by storm once Klopp leaves Pool (time frame we can't even determine). This whole plan is being sold like snake oil
Still in the 'ole out' brigade. Personally don't see anything tactically from him, no plan 'b'. And as for this clearing out the deadwood, smalling and sanchez could both end up back here next season, anders had obviously already made his mind up to leave and he let's lukaku go without no replacement. I appreciate some of these issues may not be on ole, but what about the Jones /Young contract extensions? (new deal in young case) he's also served up some of the worst football since moyes. Had done nothing to warrant getting the job in the 1st place and now for some reason he's apparently entrusted with a complete reboot. Don't be fooled the only reason we are anywhere near 4th place is due to other teams general crapiness. Just my opinion though......
Agreed. Although Creativity doesn’t have to come from 1 position. Good team share that burden on 3-4 positions.
That's fair enough, but it cant be ignored that Ole has won 7 out of 10 away matches against the other top 6. That's enough of a sample size to suggest that this lot know how to set us up to win big matches.
I actually agree with the last part to an extent. Not about Klopp as such (as you say he might do 15 years there) or about it being part of a pre-conceived master plan, but I do think that the timing of when this next squad might start to peak could very well coincide with the end of the cycles for this current Liverpool and City teams. We may very well be the best placed side to take advantage of that scenario should it come to pass.
Yes we've been inconsistent, but I also don't really think that's Ole's fault. Injuries and obviously the lack of strength in depth has been a major issue. I'd love to give him one more transfer window and see where we go. One of our main issues is not having that creative spark to drive attacks from midfield and breaking down teams who sit back, hopefully Bruno is the answer and we're starting to look more solid at the back as the season goes on. Unfortunately, we've been stuck with an underperforming Lingaard, Perrera and an aging Mata.
You look at the players this season, Linderlof, Fred, Rashford, Shaw, Greenwood, McTominey, Martial, Williams have all started to grow and improve. Hopefully, maybe another CB, LW/RW/Striker and a replacement for Matic (who also isnt looking to bad since coming back in) and things will look good for next season.
You look at the players this season, Linderlof, Fred, Rashford, Shaw, Greenwood, McTominey, Martial, Williams have all started to grow and improve. Hopefully, maybe another CB, LW/RW/Striker and a replacement for Matic (who also isnt looking to bad since coming back in) and things will look good for next season.
There are numerous clubs who want to sign Smalling, he is currently being linked with AS Roma and some mid table EPL teams. There is nothing the manager can do with Sanchez's situation, he wasn't the one who signed him, last summer Ole did the best possible he could do to ship out that big fat wages.
I'm not sure why people are blaming the manager for not replacing Lukaku. He wanted to sign a striker but the board & Ed couldn't deliver the striker for him. So why is Ole to blamed?
What about Jones/Young? Young is gone while Jones is behind Tuanzebe & Bailly in pecking order.
The clearing deadwood is going well though. I don't know why are you being so pessimistic for that aspect and also couldn't see the changed, it'll take time. The points of getting rid deadwood isn't just getting rid players who are not good enough but also getting rid player who doesn't want to be here. Apart from Pogba and the deadwood, we have bunch of players who want to be part of this club's project. This is probably the most exciting squad we ever had post Sir Alex.
And to add it more, I think you are ignoring with the fact that we have so many injuries especially long term injuries which something that neither Leicester & Chelsea had. Without injuries for our main players, we could have been in top 4 by now. On other thing, failed to sign new no 10 last summer was also the reason the manager are left with players like Pereira & Lingard which are not good enough and suffer the team as well.
Because he let Lukaku go on the last day of the transfer market?
To be fair, the premier league now is not the one we experienced 10-15 years ago, the level have been improved, the gap between top and bottom is smaller compare to SAF era. Its extremely hard to get into top 4, even you are spending. He should be giving time.
And as a result all the other strikers have benefited. Collectively, maybe it's hit us maybe it hasn't. In the long term, it will probably benefit us. Greenwoods been able to get games. Martial is able to try prove himself and that show of faith in him should help him in the long run and Rashford stepped up big time. I see nothing to suggest in general Ole was wrong. In fact, we'd have probably done better getting in another midfielder rather then replacing Lukaku. In hindsight - Rashfords injury was just unlucky but that's life.
You don't eh? What is it you are afraid of - a new AWB, a new Maguire or a new Bruno Fernandes ? We are being linked to players like Dembele, Grealish, Maddison and Sancho. I don't know about you - but that's the kind of players I want at this club.
Letting player who doesn't want to be here. What's wrong with that?
The club was already in prepare of selling Lukaku before the pre season started since Lukaku didn't even play a single pre season with us. It wasn't just decision that to be made in the last day of the transfer market.
What are you talking about? You make it sound as if it was a good call. Rashford ended up injured because we overplayed him since we dont have enough options upfront.
Under that logic we should skin every position since it may benefit us in the long run.
So Rashford was always going to score 20 goals in 30 matches, Martial was always going to get better, Shaw was always going to get better and Fred was always going to get better. Wow - being a premier League manager must be really easy - you just sit there and wait for the players to get better by themselves. Don't need to teach them anything.
Imagine if someone as good as Mourinho had made these players better, instead of practically chasing some of them out of the club
Its nothing wrong with that, but you just dont do it in the last day of the market without a proper replacement, its not that hard to understand. Its not about selling Lukaku, its about letting him go without a replacement and leaving yourself vulnerable at the last minute.
Do you seriously believe that?
Its funny that people gives credit or puts blame on the manager or player depending on the argument.
Not anything against you, but I've seen both sides you could also argue that he turned Lingard, Mata, Pereira, Matic into shit. All of them werent as bad as they are now, specially Lingard before Ole came, so by the same logic its also his fault that this players declined massively.
I dont think a manager should be judged by the progress of specific players but by the progress of the team overall, what good does it makes that he turnes 3-4 players into great ones but overall the team is not performing? Or who the feck cares in a player declines massively under a manager if the team is performing?
A progress of a player is affected by a lot of factors, of course the manager can either help or damage that progress but its only one of the many reason why a player gets better or worse so I wouldn't give credit or blame a manager by it.
Is there any evidence that suggest otherwise? Do you think a manager with weight would had allowed it?
This whole thread and many others can be summed up in this easy to use table.
| OLE IN | OLE OUT |
| He’s cleared loads of deadwood | Any manager could do that and he didn’t replace properly so has left us with a paper thin squad |
| Ole doesn’t have the final say on transfers | The manager has the final say on transfers |
| He’s done well in the face of injuries to major players | All squads suffer injuries through a season, he should have bought more replacements in the summer, it's no excuse |
| Players have progressed under him, like Fred, McT, Rashford. The coaching is working. | Fred just got better because Ole was forced to play him for a run of games, McT was good under Jose, Rashford would have progressed under any manager. Ole has no coaching skills either do his coaches. |
| His signings have been spot on | AWB can’t do anything going forward, Maguire is no better than Smalling, James is a squad player at best. OK at the moment I’ll give you Bruno |
| We’re playing attacking football for the first time in ages | I see no tactics. If we win it is down a moment of individual skill and that’s nowt to do with the manager. |
| We’re still competing for the Europa, FA Cup and top4/5 (depending on City) | Yes but there’s no plan, no tactics and normally this level of points would have us in 10th. |
| We’re rebuilding after years of dross and random signings he needs time. | Top managers should be able to rebuild and play decently. Klopp, Pep, Rodgers [insert manager name here] didn’t need time you could see their plan straight away. |
| Ed is the issue | Ole and Ed are the issue |
| You’re agenda driven | You’re blinded by your unconditional love for Ole |
| You’re a negative hate driven top red | You’re a snowflake top red Ole fan boy |
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