Only PSG has more clean sheets than United in the top 5 leagues this season.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Jesus, how miserable can you get?
Under Ole
Liverpool: 3 played: 0-2-1
City: 3 played: 2-1-0
PSG: 2 played: 1-0-1
Spurs: 2 played: 2-0-0
Total: 5-3-2
Being able to win, or even draw, even when you don't dominate is a huge plus in cup competitions. It is very few teams that have dominated their way to a CL win anyway.
It's obvious that United are not favourites to WIN the CL, but claiming that they don't have anything to do there is horseshit.
Clutch at straws all you want with your senseless post. Just shows how desperate one can get to prove a point when there is none. You could not refute anything I said. Don't bother wasting my time and yours further.
This whole Lukaku thing, even thoo wanted that tree gone from us, funny how nobody could stop Lukaku to leave but somehow Pogba was stopped.
This is a good & balanced post. As much as I am a staunch Ole supporter, it would be incorrect to claim that he has ticked every box so far. For me there are aspects of his time in charge so far that are pretty much beyond dispute - he has been very good in the transfer market, and a lot of our players have improved since he has been in charge. He has not yet proved that he can mould this group into a system that will become greater than its parts, but I think there are various factors that might explain why that is. Key injuries, poor replacement options, experimentation with different formations etc. We have been far from a settled team this season.
Results and trophies are important for this club no matter what the circumstances, and while I do think he should not feel under any pressure of dismissal no matter where we go from here this season, it would be great for the squad and would buy him some credit if we can finish strongly and win something. Next season will have a different level of expectation. We should expect to see a more rounded level of performance on a consistent basis. If that does not happen then maybe we should start to consider whether anybody else is better suited to take us forwards.
At the end of the day, results are what counts - and Ole's record against the top sides is very good. I don't hear people listing out all the games we "dominated" but lost and saying "Oh they prove Ole is a good manager". So unless you're going to defend some of those losses citing how we had more possession and shots and xG, don't slam the wins either. Also, this isn't one-off. Ole's won both derbies at the Etihad, both times away at Chelsea, at Spurs etc. The list is impressive and when you have such a good record, it's a pattern. It's not "luck". It's like picking individual decisions game-by-game and saying the dippers are actually not a good team as there have been many games in which they could easily have drawn / lost instead of winning. Stop being so blinded by your bias. Admit the obvious. There are enough sticks to beat Ole with to not have to invent imaginary stuff that flies in the face of facts.
Yes - but a load of our clean sheets came in EL and the Cups! Don't think we have been very good at the back and it would be silly to deny our very obvious weakness at set-pieces. We've been poor at them for ages now (well before this season) andeven adding Maguire has not solved that. We're generally ok in open play (much much better than last season for example) but at set-pieces, we've been chaotic.
What are you on about? Ole was happy to let Lukaku go, but he didn't want Pogba to go. The former wasn't a big part of his plan and the latter was supposed to be. The club did what the manager wanted.
The main issue here is that they did it so late on without getting a replacement in. Whether that's on Ole or the board, we'll probably never know.
People need to start factoring in the fact that Conte had a hard on for Lukaku and was willing to spend over the odds. There's no guarantee that Milan would be willing to spend that amount a year later.
It's like people don't factor in what somebody is willing to pay, it's like the most important fact in any sale of anything in history
We either didn't try very hard to stop him from going, or Pogba isn't pushing as hard as it seems to leave.
Someone made a comment above how could Ole or who ever stop Lukaku to leave when he expressed his desire to do so, as defending mechanism vs someone calling Ole out regarding Lukaku case. Nothing else.
I must have missed the bid that came in other than the derisory Madrid one for Pogba?
Funny you talk about results and post stuff that does not refute the facts. So we beat City in the cup game. What was the result? We got knocked out.
We beat PSG via luck and only luck and what was the result? We were then comprehensively knocked out when big chunks of luck didn't go our way.
We have no wins against Liverpool so I don't know what's the point unless the bottom dwelling argument that draws are to be celebrated.
If you are happy beating Farmer Frank's Chelsea, well, good for you.
Also please the comment which made me give the reply. It was something stating that Solskjaer will do well if the CL!!!! This type of absurdity gets under my skin. I have already admitted and accepted the obvious that this manager does not belong here. Maybe you should too.
VVD is more of a loss for them, but they have built a good starting eleven and they hardly get injured for long bouts..
Maybe it would be waste of paper and ink if decision to not let him go was cemented from a get go.
Neither did you. Farewell!
I agree that set-pieces are a concern. I understand that the CL is harder than the EL, but you can only beat what's in front of you, and clean sheets includes games against Liverpool, Man. City, Leicester and Chelsea (x2). The other teams on the list of clean sheets also play weak teams in cups.
Just pointing out that it's misleading; we're tied 7th (unless I'm very mistaken) for clean sheets in the Premier League alone - and a good part of this is down to our set-piece issues. Anyway, we are in agreement on the basic premise (set-piece issue) so let's end that there!
This doesn't really make sense though, does it? Where we won a game (City), you're saying it's "pointless" because we lost the tie (though we won in the league too!). We won against PSG, but that doesn't count apparently, because we then lost to Barca. We beat Frank every single time, but that's "just Frank" despite the same Frank being held up as a better manager by a lot. We also did beat Spuds and Leicester and have lost only 1 in 3 against the dippers (not even City held them in the league). We have really not been at all bad in the "big" games!
As for "do well in the CL", the poster was making the point that we have a fairly good big-game record under Ole, so (and it really did seem tongue-in-cheek) we should be fine in the CL. You then dismissed the big-game record - which I think is disingenuous. And yes, I'm a pedant and was solely talking about the point you made and not overall. We'd obviously not be favourites or even close to it in the CL, but I don't think we'd be getting rolled over in every game and tickled on our bellies. I do reckon that in Cup ties against teams that will not just sit back deep against us, Ole and this squad may do fairly well. "Reach the QF" kind of performance, probably.
Final point - you too probably missed the very first thing I said on my first post itself. I am not "Ole in"; and have been on the Nagelsmann bandwagon since the time of Moo-man. I do however feel it's important to be fair and objective when critiquing Ole. Giving credit where it's due helps ensure your view is also taken more seriously even by the "Ole in" crowd as you can't then be accused of "blind bias".
What can a manager do to a player who wants to leave? Replace him, thats all my point. For the hundred time is not about Lukaku leaving is about not replacing him, but as I said in previous posts the difference between you can me is that you think its only Woodward’s fault who fail to deliver, while I think it’s also Ole’s fault.
I have answered all your questions and points but you keep bringing them back over and over thats why this is going in circles.
These things happen all the time though. With a high % of transfers each window happening over the final 72 hours there are always clubs that come up short. In Lukaku's case if you think back Inter were low-balling us all summer because they were the only interested party. The likelihood was that he wouldn't get his move, until Juventus did us a huge favour with the proposed swap and then, lo and behold, Inter manage to find another £20m behind the sofa and things happened quickly after that. In that instance the club has a decision to make, and its full of unknowns.
I personally haven't missed Lukaku for a second. If he had stayed we might not have seen Greenwood emerge in the way that he has. Yes we left ourselves short in attack, but it doesn't really matter in the long run.
I think this thread is pointless. Both sides have really dug in here and there won't be any more progress. Good results will mean the Ole-in brigade will have their day, bad results mean the Ole out folks will be in full force.
Positives:
- The team is still wants to play for him .
- Good signings - Can't doubt the team's desire to play for the club even if we lack a bit of quality in some positions.
- Unlucky with injuries - would've been in a much better place with a healthy squad this season.
- Multiple players praised his man management and how he's a good critic / motivator.
- Fairly good record against big clubs. Clear weakness in attacking play against smaller clubs, but probably fixed that with Bruno + a RW signing this summer.
Negatives:
- Sold too aggressively and left himself with a razor thin squad. Gave out new contracts to deadwood like Jones.
- Sometimes caught a bit clueless in terms of game management when the opposition changes tactics / doesn't start like he expected them to start.
- Attacking play is kind of shit - but probably due to lack of personnel - you can only do so much with Pereira at #10 and James on RW.
- Insists on playing Pereira / Lingard for some reason over players like Gomes.
- Not a big name manager, so pulling in world class signings becomes a bit more difficult.
- Poch is available, interested and is a great manager. Can maybe get other alternatives like Rose / Nagelsmann as well.
My view is that Ole deserves time atleast until the end of the season - there won't be any caretaker managers that are better than him at this point anyway. If he manages to get a CL spot (4th / winning EL), he deserves another season - next season needs to show clear improvement in terms of attacking play / results.
Positives:
- The team is still wants to play for him .
- Good signings - Can't doubt the team's desire to play for the club even if we lack a bit of quality in some positions.
- Unlucky with injuries - would've been in a much better place with a healthy squad this season.
- Multiple players praised his man management and how he's a good critic / motivator.
- Fairly good record against big clubs. Clear weakness in attacking play against smaller clubs, but probably fixed that with Bruno + a RW signing this summer.
Negatives:
- Sold too aggressively and left himself with a razor thin squad. Gave out new contracts to deadwood like Jones.
- Sometimes caught a bit clueless in terms of game management when the opposition changes tactics / doesn't start like he expected them to start.
- Attacking play is kind of shit - but probably due to lack of personnel - you can only do so much with Pereira at #10 and James on RW.
- Insists on playing Pereira / Lingard for some reason over players like Gomes.
- Not a big name manager, so pulling in world class signings becomes a bit more difficult.
- Poch is available, interested and is a great manager. Can maybe get other alternatives like Rose / Nagelsmann as well.
My view is that Ole deserves time atleast until the end of the season - there won't be any caretaker managers that are better than him at this point anyway. If he manages to get a CL spot (4th / winning EL), he deserves another season - next season needs to show clear improvement in terms of attacking play / results.
I think he deserves a bit more time now.
Our squad for next season excluding defense:
Scott, Fred, Bruno, New CM, New AM - We're fecked if Bruno gets injured so an AM is a must.
James, Marital, Greenwod, Rashford, World Class RW(sancho preferably), CF on loan
If we can pull off these three signings I think we would be in a fantastic place to be honest and get rid of Jesse, Andreas, Rojo, Sanchez this Summer I would be pretty happy.
If we concentrate on Sancho and sign Grealish for a cut price when Villa get relegated and a 30-40 million center midfielder I think our squad would be very strong.
So in my eyes it would be the below, That would be some squad to have in fairness!
Scott, Fred, Bruno, Grealish, Soumare
Rashford, Martial, James, Greenwood, Sancho, CF on loan.
Our squad for next season excluding defense:
Scott, Fred, Bruno, New CM, New AM - We're fecked if Bruno gets injured so an AM is a must.
James, Marital, Greenwod, Rashford, World Class RW(sancho preferably), CF on loan
If we can pull off these three signings I think we would be in a fantastic place to be honest and get rid of Jesse, Andreas, Rojo, Sanchez this Summer I would be pretty happy.
If we concentrate on Sancho and sign Grealish for a cut price when Villa get relegated and a 30-40 million center midfielder I think our squad would be very strong.
So in my eyes it would be the below, That would be some squad to have in fairness!
Scott, Fred, Bruno, Grealish, Soumare
Rashford, Martial, James, Greenwood, Sancho, CF on loan.
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Castles said on the Transfer Window podcast: “An interesting comment Solskjaer made after the game was when being asked about Luke Shaw and talking about how he was encouraging Luke Shaw to play more attacking football, he threw in this line: ‘I keep encouraging them to do more of what they're good at and when they listen we'll be a good team’.
“Now, for me that’s a fine thing to say when you’ve won a match but I think it’s a bit of a dangerous thing to say because the implication of that are that Manchester United’s results this season, they’ve won 11 from 27 in the Premier League, the implication of that is that everything that’s gone wrong this season is players not listening to what the manager has told them.
“I know for a fact that there are men in that training ground, in that camp, who do not believe Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a top level manager, aren’t impressed by many of the things he’s told them to do through his time as manager, and I doubt they will be very impressed with the idea that everything that’s gone wrong this season is them failing to listen to what Solskjaer has told them to do.”
“Now, for me that’s a fine thing to say when you’ve won a match but I think it’s a bit of a dangerous thing to say because the implication of that are that Manchester United’s results this season, they’ve won 11 from 27 in the Premier League, the implication of that is that everything that’s gone wrong this season is players not listening to what the manager has told them.
“I know for a fact that there are men in that training ground, in that camp, who do not believe Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a top level manager, aren’t impressed by many of the things he’s told them to do through his time as manager, and I doubt they will be very impressed with the idea that everything that’s gone wrong this season is them failing to listen to what Solskjaer has told them to do.”
Ole is a winner which is more than our current players can say. If they can't respect what a true winner like Ole has to say then they have no place at Utd .
We have so many title winners in the squad, maybe Ole should respect their opinion.
De Gea and the mighty Phil Jones. Ole better watch his mouth!
Oh just what we need
I am sure there are - and once OGS gets rid of them, we will be a better team.
I am still waiting for a host of first-team players to follow Lukakus example and exit Old Trafford - this among other .. half-truths (if I am nice) was what Castles wrote 3 months ago. I wonder who he was talking about...
Being a winner doesn't mean you can direct your team well as a coach. Better footballers than Solskjaer who were also winners failed miserably.
Is Castles the same guy that always used to break Mourinho stories, or am I thinking of someone else? He always seems to have negative things to say about United
Top class example of trying to create an issue out of nothing.
Duncan Castles
I dont know why anyone even listen to his opinions.
I dont know why anyone even listen to his opinions.
That's a silly point that i have been trying to tell you that you are blindly blaming the manager. How can a manager replace Lukaku if the chief executive or the board couldn't give him the player? Just because we didn't sign a certain position, doesn't mean the manager doesn't want to sign one. So how can you justify that the manager didn't want to replace the player?
Ole wanted Lukaku to stay, we were linked with bunch of strikers and even negotiate with Dybala's agent in the summer. It's not rocket science to tell you that the manager wanted to have two striker options. Why don't you get this?
Let me give you good example since your way of thinking is just blaming on manager. We didn't sign a centre back in Jose's 3rd season. Does that mean Jose didn't want a centre back in that season?
The difference between you and me is that you don't understand what's going on and blindly blame someone, while I throw you a very likely possibility that happened but you refused to accept it.
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Luxury, but that´s the kind of luxury City can afford. Fernandes, Grealish and Maddison can´t all play at the same time, but this would be solid upgrades on Lingard and Pereira. I can´t see it happening, though. We need to spend money on a striker.
Top, or supposedly top, players so often blame a manager rather than look at themselves. England regulars like Gerrard did this all the time once the managers had been safely dismissed.
I actually stated Ole preferred other players in Lukaku's position, I'm fully aware of Ole's preference as is Lukaku from when Ole first arrived and alleged style/vision. Point was there's a way to do it and not leave yourself short. Rashford overplayed and out for half the season, known back issues, Martial out for months and his injury record is woefully short.
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Yes but i don't want to hear some overpaid footballer who has won nothing in his life and has no idea of how privileged he is wearing a Utd top having the nerve to say he doesn't respect what a legend like Solskjaer has to say about playing for the club .
Ole has earned the right the current players have not
Hahaha that summarizes it, I don’t understand while you throw a very likely possibility according to you so I should accept your reality.
Not going to repply anymore mate, cheers.
Solskjaer being a winner as a player has absolutely no bearing to his credentials managing a football team, as his career has shown thus far.
Ole is a winner? When? How? Based on what?
Seen nothing in Pouch's football to excite and I seem to recall he won nothing in 5 years managing Spurs. Why do Ole haters want that guy?
The 3 coaches before Ole bought many wrong players. Often mercenary with no club loyalty. You can tell me they didn't pick the players but surely they had a veto and as much say as Ole in transfers?
I wish there was some process or person who could go out to recruit the football staff we need: DoF plus top coach. But there's only the Glazers and Woody whom I have no confidence in.
The 3 coaches before Ole bought many wrong players. Often mercenary with no club loyalty. You can tell me they didn't pick the players but surely they had a veto and as much say as Ole in transfers?
I wish there was some process or person who could go out to recruit the football staff we need: DoF plus top coach. But there's only the Glazers and Woody whom I have no confidence in.
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