Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[dogwithabone]

I assume this just means today. Because we've had about 14 (!) games this season where the football was as bad or worse than anything we saw from LVG, Moyes and Mourinho, even at their lowest points...

For starters Fellaini was a constant under the previous three. Ole binned him virtually from the get go. He got rid of another useless lump in Lukaku too. He's undoubtedly got the best out of Rashford and although Martial remains a conundrum I think there’s signs that he’s a bit more consistent under Ole. Maguire is a solid signing and the defensive leader we’d been missing, Shaw seems to have stepped it up a bit too. He’s done great with Greenwood and Williams but admittedly there’s work to do with James and Perreira. Fred has shown form under Ole that he just didn’t under Mourinho and McTominay amongst the goals, something he didn’t remotely look like doing in a Mourinho side.

Definite progress.

 

[Massive Spanner]

No that isn't the case - I have never said he is good enough. I am saying he might be. I have said he deserves more time so we can find out. You are the one who says he isn't good enough. I am saying he might be good enough. And here are my main arguments

1) He signs the right players - and there seems to be a plan about who we sign...which we never seemed to have before. He has signed 2 captains in their former club - and we are after Grealish who is the third. He is signing leaders.
2) He makes the group happy - he doesn't criticize players openly like Mourinho did. And he never randomly kicks them out like LvG did. Despite what some reporters claiming to have ITK says - there aren't many players begging to leave the club
3) He gets rid of the players who arent good enough - there are some left, but within 12 months they will be gone as well
4) He seems to a lot smarter tactically than what people claims - his resuts against the big clubs indicate that
5) He gives youngsters chances - that will save us lots of Money, and will make it a lot easier to attract other talent. I know which club I would join as a 16 year old if the choice was United and City (who never give youth a chance)
6) The results haven't been good enough granted- but we are clearly moving in the right direction. I think we won 18 or so of the last 32 matches. That's not good enough to match Liverpool and City of course, but it's proof that it was the first 9 matches of the P.L season that ruined it for us - afterwards we have done quite well.
7) He is getting most of the players to sign new contracts - which was the opposite of what Mourinho did
8) Most of the players are performing better - you could always argue that there are other reasons for that - maybe Fred magically has adjusted, maybe Rashford magically has learned to score goals etc - but the fact is only a few players have deteriorated under OGS - and a lot more have improved.

So you are right about what you say - have the results improved no - has he improved well enough with the squad ? No we probably should have had 4-5 Points more - but with the squad that started the season, and with the injuries we have had . we aren't better. But you also have to be blind to see that things are starting to fall into place. We have a team that is lot stronger than when he started and we will only get better.

I appreciate the post and at least you're listing a lot of positives. I however do not see quite a few of those positives. A lot of if's and buts there and a lot of minor, largely irrelevant stuff to try pump up the length of the list, but hey, maybe that's a good thing and it shows you are able to see more positives than me, so who am I to criticize?

I think I, ultimately, value results and entertaining football far more than you and others on here too. Whilst I do appreciate that both of those things need time to improve upon, what I don't see is the sort of improvement in either that you would expect from a manager who has been here 15 months and spent considerable sums of money. I also think despite our injury woes that he has largely not done a good enough job with the players at his disposal. You may disagree, but we've lost games to plenty of opponents with much weaker sides than us, that's indisputable.

Now, you say I have to be blind to not see that things aren't falling into place, but I'd argue that you are being completely overreactive to say that they are based on a few good results against largely poor opposition. It's easy to forget that before this little run we had some piss-poor results against teams like Wolves, Burnley, City, and Pool. Or that we've had spells of good results like this before only to go on really bad runs after that. There have been many false corners turned, one step forward two steps back, under Ole (and previous managers) so I don't see what's so ridiculous about being somewhat pessimistic that we've suddenly got some wonderful plan falling into place.

There's no doubt that we, right now, are a better side than we were in the first few months of the season, but that's pretty much the minimal you'd expect as a manager is given more time, isn't it? Surely the manager of Man Utd needs to show more than that, or hasn't the 2nd biggest club in the world got any fecking ambition or standards anymore?

 

[Mainoldo]

I find it funny how gullible this fanbase is.

We should all hope our results improve and we make Champions League. I’d be over the moon.

But for people to truly think next season will be any better with Ole in charge we are in for a predictable mistake. Just like we witnessed giving Mourinho his 3rd season.

Oh well. We live and we don’t learn.

 

[rotherham_red]

My overall worry is if we concede first in any game. It seems a problem for us mentally and structurally on the pitch. We lose our heads and shape and concede the second at the wrong times. I cant remember us coming back after conceding first in a long time. Dont think we've even drawn a game. We have a fantastic record at keeping a lead. Hopefully with fernandes in the team we can create more opportunities than we did before. Ole has done reasonably well but i dont think he can take us to the next level competing with the top 2. I hope I'm proven wrong though.

Newcastle at home - won 4-1, also came back v Villa and should have won if not for Williams' carelessness in the offside trap. Likewise at Sheffield Utd where VAR fecked us out of an admittedly ill-deserved win. That's three off the top of my head from the last 3 months alone.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

That is the definition of a plastic fan, isn't it?

Wanting your team to win and play nice football is plastic @troylocker?

Strange definition that mate.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Wanting your team to win and play nice football is plastic @troylocker?

Strange definition that mate.

It's the party line, mate. Woody would be proud.

 

[hobbers]

That is the definition of a football fan, isn't it?

Fixed this whopper for you.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

No that isn't the case - I have never said he is good enough. I am saying he might be. I have said he deserves more time so we can find out. You are the one who says he isn't good enough. I am saying he might be good enough. And here are my main arguments

1) He signs the right players - and there seems to be a plan about who we sign...which we never seemed to have before. He has signed 2 captains in their former club - and we are after Grealish who is the third. He is signing leaders.
2) He makes the group happy - he doesn't criticize players openly like Mourinho did. And he never randomly kicks them out like LvG did. Despite what some reporters claiming to have ITK says - there aren't many players begging to leave the club
3) He gets rid of the players who arent good enough - there are some left, but within 12 months they will be gone as well

Points 1 & 3 are new club policies in fairness, so don't be giving all the credit to Ole here. The club has a new direction and hopefully the right one.

Point 2 is neither here nor there if you're not on the inside.

4) He seems to a lot smarter tactically than what people claims - his resuts against the big clubs indicate that.

It proves he has a plan against good teams, nothing more.

5) He gives youngsters chances - that will save us lots of Money, and will make it a lot easier to attract other talent. I know which club I would join as a 16 year old if the choice was United and City (who never give youth a chance)

I like this and I'm glad we went with a manager who wants to do this.

6) The results haven't been good enough granted- but we are clearly moving in the right direction. I think we won 18 or so of the last 32 matches. That's not good enough to match Liverpool and City of course, but it's proof that it was the first 9 matches of the P.L season that ruined it for us - afterwards we have done quite well.

18 though, doesn't that include some absolute tosh in the EL, LC and FA Cup? Colchester, Tranmere, AZ, Astana etc...

Hopefully it continues at that rate (56%) until the end of the season because there are not many easy games left now, Derby and LASK aside. It it does, I'll be delighted as it'll be real progress.

7) He is getting most of the players to sign new contracts - which was the opposite of what Mourinho did

Loads of our players sign new contracts, even the ones that shouldn't, I think the club tend to decide that as they see them as assets and don't want to lose them for free.

8) Most of the players are performing better - you could always argue that there are other reasons for that - maybe Fred magically has adjusted, maybe Rashford magically has learned to score goals etc - but the fact is only a few players have deteriorated under OGS - and a lot more have improved.

I'll go along with that (performing better) if we carry on the season like February, if we carry on like August-31st Jan, I'm calling the "so fecking what if we've made a few players better and made the team miles shitter" card.

Few things I needed to add.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I hate people who expect the team they follow to win games and be entertaining to watch. Entitled, plastic bastards.

What next? They want the team to sign good players? Sheesh.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Fixed this whopper for you.

I'm guessing Troy likes his team to play shite football and win rarely. Proper fan is troy.

 

[Random Task]

I find it funny how gullible this fanbase is.

We should all hope our results improve and we make Champions League. I’d be over the moon.

But for people to truly think next season will be any better with Ole in charge we are in for a predictable mistake. Just like we witnessed giving Mourinho his 3rd season.

Oh well. We live and we don’t learn.

That's not true.

Our fortunes on the pitch will undoubtedly improve as the squad gets closer to completion. The impact of Bruno alone is evidence of that, throw in 2 or 3 equally impressive signings this summer (Sancho, Maddison, and another centreback preferably), and we won't be far off ready to challenge again.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

At the end of the day for me it comes down to- is Ole the best manager we could have in world football ?

The answer is obviously no & he shouldn’t be here. Simple as that

 

[Random Task]

At the end of the day for me it comes down to- is Ole the best manager we could have in world football?

The answer is no & he shouldn’t be here. Simple as that

No, he isn't, but he might just be the ideal manager for the rebuild we're currently undergoing. We'll need to aim higher for the long-term though.

Few things I needed to add.

United fans are understandably wary that this latest run of good form will turn out to be yet another false dawn, but I genuinely believe this time is different. You must have noticed the difference in our performances ever since Bruno became a fixture in the midfield; we're playing at a higher tempo, creating chances and scoring goals for fun.

What more can Ole do to change your mind?

 

[Rafaeldagold]

No, he isn't, but he might just be the ideal manager for the rebuild we're currently undergoing. We'll need to aim higher for the long-term though.



United fans are understandably wary that this latest run of good form will turn out to be yet another false dawn, but I genuinely believe this time is different. You must have noticed the difference in our performances ever since Bruno became a fixture in the midfield; we're playing at a higher tempo, creating chances and scoring goals for fun.

What more can Ole do to change your mind?

I’m sorry but I don’t agree this ‘he’s good for this rebuild etc’ A better manager might be doing..better.

Also we’re just wasting time if we aren’t getting in a better manager now.

Ole might do ok, but We’re not fulfilling our potential as a club by sticking with him- which surely is what every fan wants for their club

 

[90 + 5min]

I find it funny how gullible this fanbase is.

We should all hope our results improve and we make Champions League. I’d be over the moon.

But for people to truly think next season will be any better with Ole in charge we are in for a predictable mistake. Just like we witnessed giving Mourinho his 3rd season.

Oh well. We live and we don’t learn.

So lets change manager every year. Or?

I’ll say again. It is no secret that I have been Solskjaer in regardless of results and would not change my stance just because we won a game. Or lose a game. I have always said managers need time and in Solskjaer case I would give him at least until december. Then we can see if there is progress. Right now he is doing ok and making things right with what he have.

I think that even Solskjaer-out army deep Inside knows that it is looking better and better and that we are showing progress.

At the end of the day for me it comes down to- is Ole the best manager we could have in world football ?

The answer is obviously no & he shouldn’t be here. Simple as that

Is (insert any player in our squad) best in the world? No. Should that mean that we should get rid of everyone? I don’t see you saying sell Rashford, Martial, DeGea, Pogba, McTom and so on.
It is about team. Not individuals. Getting right mix.

 

[shaky]

At the end of the day for me it comes down to- is Ole the best manager we could have in world football ?

The answer is obviously no & he shouldn’t be here. Simple as that

Who is categorically the best manager we could have in world football then?

 

[Leftback99]

At the end of the day for me it comes down to- is Ole the best manager we could have in world football ?

The answer is obviously no & he shouldn’t be here. Simple as that

Is the manager you have in mind to replace him today the best manager we could have in world football? Has he been sacked? Why did that club sack him if he's the best?

 

[ReddBalls]

At the end of the day for me it comes down to- is Ole the best manager we could have in world football ?

The answer is obviously no & he shouldn’t be here. Simple as that

That is a fallacy. There is no "best" regardless of context. Ranieri would be a good example. There were obviously better managers available when he got appointed at Leicester, but he still did his job in a way that secured their first league title ever.

Big Sam might be another example. Hardly the best manager in the world, but for a while, if you were a relegation candidate, he was one of few that would actually save your ass.

The "best regardless" approach has been tried at United ever since Moyes was fired. It obviously did not work. The players and managers brought in was - on paper - world class. In reality, they did not fit the club.

 

[poleglass red]

At the end of the day for me it comes down to- is Ole the best manager we could have in world football ?

The answer is obviously no & he shouldn’t be here. Simple as that

wasn't Jose considered one of the best, how did that work out?

 

[Mainoldo]

So lets change manager every year. Or?

I’ll say again. It is no secret that I have been Solskjaer in regardless of results and would not change my stance just because we won a game. Or lose a game. I have always said managers need time and in Solskjaer case I would give him at least until december. Then we can see if there is progress. Right now he is doing ok and making things right with what he have.

I think that even Solskjaer-out army deep Inside knows that it is looking better and better and that we are showing progress.


Is (insert any player in our squad) best in the world? No. Should that mean that we should get rid of everyone? I don’t see you saying sell Rashford, Martial, DeGea, Pogba, McTom and so on.
It is about team. Not individuals. Getting right mix.

He doesn’t look better to me to be honest. Just looks like a guy who’s got a fabulous player in Bruno and fabulous players who haven’t actually be fitness managed.

It’s not really a manager needs time situation or new managers every year. We just need the right manager for now. Poch is that manager. I don’t see what more you need to see. He’s been here for 14 months.. I’ve see enough.

He’s done a good job in picking the right players going forward but he’s not the only man in the world who could have done this. Maguire and AWB was from the Jose era. Fernandes too if scouting is to be believed. All he’s done is given the green light and quite frankly the players that have been mentioned since he’s taken over have been shocking. James (signed), Longstaff, Rice.

Time will just show more frailties however I do expect better results with better players. It just won’t be enough to where we should be aiming.

City (no champions league)
Arsenal ( Rebuild With a novice)
Chelsea (Rebuild with a novice)
Spurs (Will end up like us under Jose)

This is the perfect time to start making fast progression. Not a 3 year plan.

 

[Random Task]

I’m sorry but I don’t agree this ‘he’s good for this rebuild etc’ A better manager might be doing..better.

Also we’re just wasting time if we aren’t getting in a better manager now.

Ole might do ok, but We’re not fulfilling our potential as a club by sticking with him- which surely is what every fan wants for their club

I feel the most important thing for our club right now is not to win trophies or even challenge for the CL places but to find committed players who genuinely want to be at the club, rather than the quick fix mercenary types that LVG and Jose threw at us - which I believe is what Ole is doing that right now. You'll have noticed that each of Ole's signings has had, to varying degrees, a positive impact on the club. The first three were arguably our best performers in the first half of the season, the likes of which we haven't seen from a new signing since as far back as RVP?

There are a few things about Ole signings that set them apart from those of his predecessors. I'll list them:

• They all want to be here. Clearly.
• They have each performed to or above expectations.
• They rarely (if ever) get injured, unlike their teammates who've been dropping like flies all season.
• You never hear anything negative about them in the media.

These may seem like your basic expectations from any new signing, but it's something we haven't seen in our new players since Fergie was in charge. If Ole continues to identify the correct targets for his system and the club in general, has he not earned the right to remain charge until the rebuild is complete?

 

[Mainoldo]

wasn't Jose considered one of the best, how did that work out?

So is he still the best manager? How do you see this Spurs experiment with him going? Are you nervous about it? Scared he’s going to make them a force to be reckoned with?

 

[Mainoldo]

I feel the most important thing for our club right now is not to win trophies or even challenge for the CL places but to find committed players who genuinely want to be at the club, rather than the quick fix mercenary types that LVG and Jose threw at us. Which I believe is what Ole is doing that right now. You'll have noticed that each of Ole's signings has had, to varying degrees, a positive impact on the club. The first three were arguably our best performers in the first half of the season, the likes of which we haven't seen from a new signing since as far back as RVP?

There are a few things about Ole signings that set them apart from those of his predecessors. I'll list them:

• They all want to be here. Clearly.
• They have each performed to or above expectations.
• They rarely (if ever) get injured, unlike their teammates who've been dropping like flies all season.
• You never hear anything negative about them in the media.

These may seem like your basic expectations from any new signing, but it's something we haven't seen in our new players since Fergie was in charge. If Ole continues to identify the correct targets for his system and the club in general, has he not earned the right to remain charge until the rebuild is complete?

This all want to be here is so overrated. If they turn out good and we don’t progress at their rate they will not want to be here. It’s just such a flawed plan. Do you think Liverpool and City players want to be there because of the prestige of the clubs?

 

[ReddBalls]

So is he still the best manager? How do you see this Spurs experiment with him going? Are you nervous about it? Scared he’s going to make them a force to be reckoned with?

That's kinda his point, I believe. "Best" is based on previous performances. It does not guarantee anything. As United painfully found out, and Spurs are experiencing just now.

 

[Random Task]

This all want to be here is so overrated. If they turn out good and we don’t progress at their rate they will not want to be here. It’s just such a flawed plan. Do you think Liverpool and City players want to be there because of the prestige of the clubs?

Yes, I do. I don't think Klopp or Pep would have it any other way in all honesty.

 

[ReddBalls]

This all want to be here is so overrated. If they turn out good and we don’t progress at their rate they will not want to be here. It’s just such a flawed plan. Do you think Liverpool and City players want to be there because of the prestige of the clubs?

Does it have to do with prestige? There are a lot of factors that determine why people get attracted to a workplace or that they enjoy staying there. Point is people who does not want to stay usually make their environment worse.

 

[Mainoldo]

That's not true.

Our fortunes on the pitch will undoubtedly improve as the squad gets closer to completion. The impact of Bruno alone is evidence of that, throw in 2 or 3 equally impressive signings this summer (Sancho, Maddison, and another centreback preferably), and we won't be far off ready to challenge again.

Why do you need Maddison when we have Bruno. What exactly is he going to improve?

Also do you not expect better players to improve the team? That’s not what the aim should be. The aim should be to build a team that are performing better than everyone around them. Like Liverpool.. they don’t have the best players in the world, but they are better than Madrid and Barca. Ole’s managerial skills doesn’t give us this.

 

[90 + 5min]

He doesn’t look better to me to be honest. Just looks like a guy who’s got a fabulous player in Bruno and fabulous players who haven’t actually be fitness managed.

It’s not really a manager needs time situation or new managers every year. We just need the right manager for now. Poch is that manager. I don’t see what more you need to see. He’s been here for 14 months.. I’ve see enough.

He’s done a good job in picking the right players going forward but he’s not the only man in the world who could have done this. Maguire and AWB was from the Jose era. Fernandes too if scouting is to be believed. All he’s done is given the green light and quite frankly the players that have been mentioned since he’s taken over have been shocking. James (signed), Longstaff, Rice.

Time will just show more frailties however I do expect better results with better players. It just won’t be enough to where we should be aiming.

City (no champions league)
Arsenal ( Rebuild With a novice)
Chelsea (Rebuild with a novice)
Spurs (Will end up like us under Jose)

This is the perfect time to start making fast progression. Not a 3 year plan.

Guardiola, wherever he has been has had stars and fabulous players. Does that mean that we should not say he is great manager? If we can’t give credit to Solskjaer when the team win (according to you it is about players. The better they are, the better results we get. And you got it right to a certain point) then why do Klopp, Rodgers, Guardiola get credit when their teams win?

14 months is no time in rebuilding process. If you as a club decide to change culture after years of missmanagment from moneymen then it takes time to get things right.

So many times I have written about this guy. While he is good manager there is nothing to show that he would be better fit or have any kind of trophy success in Manchester United.

 

[Mainoldo]

Does it have to do with prestige? There are a lot of factors that determine why people get attracted to a workplace or that they enjoy staying there. Point is people who does not want to stay usually make their environment worse.

So when we was winning with Fergie and every year players wanted to leave. Did that make our environment worse?

 

[Mainoldo]

Guardiola, wherever he has been has had stars and fabulous players. Does that mean that we should not say he is great manager? If we can’t give credit to Solskjaer when the team win (according to you it is about players. The better they are, the better results we get. And you got it right to a certain point) then why do Klopp, Rodgers, Guardiola get credit when their teams win?

14 months is no time in rebuilding process. If you as a club decide to change culture after years of missmanagment from moneymen then it takes time to get things right.

So many times I have written about this guy. While he is good manager there is nothing to show that he would be better fit or have any kind of trophy success in Manchester United.

I don’t get what you mean. Pep and Klopp win titles... which is my point. Where exactly are we going with giving him better players?

14 months isn’t enough time? Tell that to Inter and numerous other clubs. I don’t see why a club the size and resources of Manchester United. Need 3 bloody years.

 

[90 + 5min]

I don’t get what you mean. Pep and Klopp win titles... which is my point. Where exactly are we going with giving him better players?

14 months isn’t enough time? Tell that to Inter and numerous other clubs. I don’t see why a club the size and resources of Manchester United. Need 3 bloody years.

You wrote like you meant that Solskjaer is lucky that he got Fernandes and that is why we are winning and not because Solskjaer does right things. Thats is why I mentioned Guardiola. You can throw Klopp in it aswell. Is he winning titles because he is good manager or that he has good players?
We need time because we were free falling with changes all the time. I am a person that is not a fan changing managers all the time. I want them to be given time. Inter? What have they achived changing managers? Juventus is still class above them.

 

[Acquire Me]

Because he won the title in his first two seasons but then just went backwards from there?

Molde fans will tell you whether they think him leaving to join United was good for their club or not (hint: it was).

Haha no. You are wrong on every account.

 

[poleglass red]

So is he still the best manager? How do you see this Spurs experiment with him going? Are you nervous about it? Scared he’s going to make them a force to be reckoned with?

no
bad
don't care
no

 

[ReddBalls]

So when we was winning with Fergie and every year players wanted to leave. Did that make our environment worse?

I really struggle to see what you're getting at here. Sorry.

 

[Turnip]

The idea that a team with Lingard, Pereira, matic etc should easily break low blocks down if the manager is clever is stupid.

He signed Bruno at a bargain price to do it. That's how it usually works. Pep gets De Bryune, David Silva and Bernardo Silva to do it. Ole was supposed to get Jesse to do it????

Exactly, I was supporting him, hence suggesting Bruno seems to be the answer. I agree that its hardly surprising our squad without Pogba struggled to penetrate defensive teams. Hence I think he deserves some time.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

What more can Ole do to change your mind?

Continue winning games?

One month of decent football won't convince me, just as December didn't. That said, I loved our January window and the squad looks much more balanced now than it did at the end of December so he's every chance of changing my mind completely.

 

[poleglass red]

It's amazing what getting injured players back and a new quality signing can do. Still a ways to go but give a manager the tools and you will see rewards. We still need to continue to improve the squad but finally seeing some light. I think with what we started the season with squad wise coupled with injuries to key players and a distinct lack of creativity in mid, any manager would have struggled.

 

[Mainoldo]

You wrote like you meant that Solskjaer is lucky that he got Fernandes and that is why we are winning and not because Solskjaer does right things. Thats is why I mentioned Guardiola. You can throw Klopp in it aswell. Is he winning titles because he is good manager or that he has good players?
We need time because we were free falling with changes all the time. I am a person that is not a fan changing managers all the time. I want them to be given time. Inter? What have they achived changing managers? Juventus is still class above them.

He's not lucky it's just the truth. Your making it out like these turn of results is through giving Solskjaer patients and witnessing the fruits of his labour. It's not. We brought Bruno Fernandes and like a lot of people predicted he improved our first team. This has nothing to do with Ole getting things right. If we have no Bruno we don't have this change in fortune.

My argument from this is what are we actually looking for? This guys is not going to take us back to the top. We can buying him a title challenging squad but he's not going to do much with it. We could have brought Moyes a title challenging squad too.. there wouldn't be much difference to what we are seeing now. Only difference Ole is a cult hero. You wouldn't be advocating this much time to someone else.

 

[Mainoldo]

That's kinda his point, I believe. "Best" is based on previous performances. It does not guarantee anything. As United painfully found out, and Spurs are experiencing just now.

But it's not that hard. Why are so many people acting like these things cannot be foreseen. Football isn't a crystal ball. There's a reason why SAF said Klopp will probably win Liverpool the league. There's also a reason why Bobby Charlton said Mourinho is not a Manchester United manager.

The Mourinho experiment was only going to go two ways and it went the way we didn't want it to go. But there was nothing surprising from what we seen except for his football is no outdated.

 

[Mainoldo]

Yes, I do. I don't think Klopp or Pep would have it any other way in all honesty.

So Aguero, Toure and David Silva went to Man City because of the presitage of the club? Foolishness.