Ah right you are mate i read it too quickly. But to be fair he also said this in the same post which is similar. So my point sort of still stands, we shouldn't be changing formation to suit the likes of Young and Valencia.
Our best formation: 3-5-2 variations?
- Thread starter Web of Bissaka
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Ah right you are mate i read it too quickly. But to be fair he also said this in the same post which is similar. So my point sort of still stands, we shouldn't be changing formation to suit the likes of Young and Valencia.
I don't disagree with this point whatsoever. We really shouldn't create a formation just to fit in ageing full backs.
And I am not any great lover of 352 necessarily. Personally I prefer a 433 if the squad fits.
My main point is that I feel that most of our current squad are probably better suited to a 352 with a single midfield pivot.
Our two newly acquired centre halves (Bailly and Lindelof) both have ball playing capability to play in a back 3, but probably couldn't be trusted as a 2. I guess it could be argued that playing 2 centre halves would probably suit Smalling and Jones better, but similarly to your point I don't think we should play a system to suit them at the expense of other players.
Only Darmien is what I would consider to be an out and out full back, and I don't feel like he is of the quality we require. All the other alternatives would be equally, if not more comfortable as wing backs. (Young, Shaw, Valencia).
We would still be playing a midfield 3, and the 2 most advanced of the 3 would have free range to get forward. Ideal for the likes of Pogba, Herrera or Lingard.
And I really don't think any of our supposed "wide" forwards are well suited to the wide positions in a 433 or a 4231. Maybe Sanchez once upon a time, but his last 2 or 3 years at Arsenal were mainly playing through the middle. Why we are trying to convert a now ageing, slightly slower player into a dynamic wide player I really don't know. Playing through the middle would also better suit Martial and Rashford.
So I'd personally play a system that suits the players, rather than try and force square pegs into round holes.
I don't necessarily disagree that a lot of our players don't exactly fit 433/4231 but then thats understandable as the current squad has been assembled by 3 different managers with 2 different philosophies (Moyes didnt have a plan).
But if Mourinho wants to play 433/4231 as he always has then we should sign the players needed to fit into that system instead of changing formations just to suit players who may not have long term futures at United. In my opinion anyway.
Adapting a formation to suit the likes of Valencia, Lindelof, Young, Martial, Shaw etc. is a dead end. In two years most likely none of those players will still be at United.
IMO 4312 is our best formation with the players we have. Mata is not a winger and Lingard is better as CAM. Also, we have a lot of quality forwards like Lukaku, Sanchez, Martial and Rashford.
It's important to make 2 or 3 more signings this summer to improve our team.
De Gea
Dalot - Bailly - Smalling - Young
Fred - Matic - Pogba
Sanchez
Lukaku - Martial
Lingard, Rashford, Sanchez, Mata are able to play behind the strikers... If we don't sign a RW, then we could try that formation.Dalot - Bailly - Smalling - Young
Fred - Matic - Pogba
Sanchez
Lukaku - Martial
It's important to make 2 or 3 more signings this summer to improve our team.
I have a feeling, when looking at the players we're linked to, that Mourinho plans to play a back 3, either 352 or 3142, which tbh are pretty much the same 
Young, Valencia, Dalot and even Shaw can play wingback. Sanchez and Big Rom up top.
We have a ton, of defenders, and still being linked to new ones. Jones, Smalling, Bailly, Lindelöf, plus Alderweireld and now recently Bonucci - who are used to a back 3.
Back 3 seems to be FOTM too.
Young, Valencia, Dalot and even Shaw can play wingback. Sanchez and Big Rom up top.
We have a ton, of defenders, and still being linked to new ones. Jones, Smalling, Bailly, Lindelöf, plus Alderweireld and now recently Bonucci - who are used to a back 3.
Back 3 seems to be FOTM too.
I clicked on this thread thinking "hmm let's see where he's going, he may have a point"Edit:Can mods delete this thread?
And then this was the OP
Im not sure Jose likes playing with a back 3? I could be wrong but he always seems to prefer 433 or 4231?I have a feeling, when looking at the players we're linked to, that Mourinho plans to play a back 3, either 352 or 3142, which tbh are pretty much the same
Young, Valencia, Dalot and even Shaw can play wingback. Sanchez and Big Rom up top.
We have a ton, of defenders, and still being linked to new ones. Jones, Smalling, Bailly, Lindelöf, plus Alderweireld and now recently Bonucci - who are used to a back 3.
Back 3 seems to be FOTM too.
Did he play with a back 3 with Chelsea/Real/Inter?
Not as i can remember. It just looks to me like that's what he's building for. I might be wrong, i was once before
If he wants to bring in more defenders, he should start getting rid of some too.
352 is the squads best format primarily due to LVG - Jose has just significantly & consistently bought a better quality of player.
If players like Martial, Blind, Rashford are not pushed out of the club due to their inability to be useful in the 4231 - I see good things in the future.
The back 3 = the difference between a ball playing defender & a attacking CB is something people seem to confuse. A back 3 needs an attacking CB that takes the ball forward to CDM positions. A manager who wants to play 352 will love Blind because he is arguably the best type of defender to play inbetween defenders like smalling, Jones, Bailly who are wonderfully aggressive but can slip on ice. Still to this date - Blind & Smallings partnership is the best post saf even though it could be penetrated.
Wingback - we don't have fullbacks ; we have wing backs again because of LVG - we shouldn't have wingers who cross the ball when our wingback are capable as long as they are not playing at fullbacks. Get new ones too.
2CM - with an extra CB that has the ability to bring & protect the ball at CDM players like Pogba & Fred do not need Matic sitting around deep doing absolutely sod all post January. Their goal is to attack with the ball with 5 defenders playing directly behind them.
1AM, 1LF, 1RF- martial, Lingard, Sanchez, Rashford, Lukaku playing for 3 positions. The Am goal is to make runs to make a flexible front 3 in to space whilst the LF & RF run across channels - something that suits martial, Rashford & Lukaku in particular more than being target men or wingers.
352 will come once Jose is gone because the guy is simply too success orientated to try something different these days. I can guarantee the day we switch to 352 & make it our tactic will be the season we see progress as a club & not purely league position - primarily because we would have the ability to play defensively up to a 5-3-2 ready to counterattack wider on channels and us able to attack up to a 2-3-5.
Just the ambition to attack alone will get us going never mind from players like martial, Rashford, Lingard, TFM, Tuenzebe fitting it almost single-handedly nevermind players Gomes.
Some of us said it before anyway; almost 5 years ago - England will play the same formation as Manchester United. What has happened is Jose is trying to mask the 352 ability of our squad by playing 4231 by turning Pogba in to Essien, Lukaku to Drogba, Matic to Matic & willian to willian.
LVG's football was trash alongside his choice of player because he was an old manager but his ideas & his philosophy of United playing a brand of football unique to United will arise again - for that i am greatful to him. I really couldn't care if people think I'm deluded.
If players like Martial, Blind, Rashford are not pushed out of the club due to their inability to be useful in the 4231 - I see good things in the future.
The back 3 = the difference between a ball playing defender & a attacking CB is something people seem to confuse. A back 3 needs an attacking CB that takes the ball forward to CDM positions. A manager who wants to play 352 will love Blind because he is arguably the best type of defender to play inbetween defenders like smalling, Jones, Bailly who are wonderfully aggressive but can slip on ice. Still to this date - Blind & Smallings partnership is the best post saf even though it could be penetrated.
Wingback - we don't have fullbacks ; we have wing backs again because of LVG - we shouldn't have wingers who cross the ball when our wingback are capable as long as they are not playing at fullbacks. Get new ones too.
2CM - with an extra CB that has the ability to bring & protect the ball at CDM players like Pogba & Fred do not need Matic sitting around deep doing absolutely sod all post January. Their goal is to attack with the ball with 5 defenders playing directly behind them.
1AM, 1LF, 1RF- martial, Lingard, Sanchez, Rashford, Lukaku playing for 3 positions. The Am goal is to make runs to make a flexible front 3 in to space whilst the LF & RF run across channels - something that suits martial, Rashford & Lukaku in particular more than being target men or wingers.
352 will come once Jose is gone because the guy is simply too success orientated to try something different these days. I can guarantee the day we switch to 352 & make it our tactic will be the season we see progress as a club & not purely league position - primarily because we would have the ability to play defensively up to a 5-3-2 ready to counterattack wider on channels and us able to attack up to a 2-3-5.
Just the ambition to attack alone will get us going never mind from players like martial, Rashford, Lingard, TFM, Tuenzebe fitting it almost single-handedly nevermind players Gomes.
Some of us said it before anyway; almost 5 years ago - England will play the same formation as Manchester United. What has happened is Jose is trying to mask the 352 ability of our squad by playing 4231 by turning Pogba in to Essien, Lukaku to Drogba, Matic to Matic & willian to willian.
LVG's football was trash alongside his choice of player because he was an old manager but his ideas & his philosophy of United playing a brand of football unique to United will arise again - for that i am greatful to him. I really couldn't care if people think I'm deluded.
Mourinho would be an idiot to play a back 3, finding 2 centre halves in our squad who can stay fit and distribute the ball properly is hard enough let alone 3. Young is also the only player who is suited to playing as wing back so he would need to sign 2-4 players to make it work.
LVG quickly realised that as well as his interpretation of 3-5-2 being outdated, he messed up playing it because he didn’t have players for it and it’s no different now.
LVG quickly realised that as well as his interpretation of 3-5-2 being outdated, he messed up playing it because he didn’t have players for it and it’s no different now.
If we want to play 352, we need to sign a top No.10, improve our wing backs and sign a ball playing CB.
It could work, but I would prefer a 433 formation.
Sanchez/Martial - Lukaku/Rashford
Lingard/Mata
Young/Shaw - Pogba/Herrera - Fred/Matic - Valencia/Dalot
Rojo/Blind - Smaling/Lindelof - Bailly/Jones
De Gea/Romero
Lingard/Mata
Young/Shaw - Pogba/Herrera - Fred/Matic - Valencia/Dalot
Rojo/Blind - Smaling/Lindelof - Bailly/Jones
De Gea/Romero
It could work, but I would prefer a 433 formation.
Waiiittt.... this post sounds really familiar. Wasn't there this Home&Away dude who made a thread about 3-5-2?
Think this set up would suit the squad and Smalling in my eyes, is ideal as the middle centre back. The modern way of playing this system requires the middle centre back to be the leader and main defender, not the best on the ball which is where England got it wrong in my opinion. Yes against easier teams 3 ball playing centre halves is great but defending is still the main attribute of a centre half. The other important thing is to be flexible. (This is also where England went wrong). I think Lindelof would excel in a 3 too as he showed at the World Cup he's no mug. Will be disappointed if we stick with playing ACM's or Strikers on the wing
Now that Blind is going - the best player we could get at the heart of a back 3 in my opinion is someone like Dier. That was the problem for England.
Both stones & Mcguire were good on the ball - they needed a defensive pivot to move the closer distances in the middle.
Stones - Dier - Mcguire
Dier has the ability to move up in to CDM and drop back in to CB - meaning that we as a team are capable of having up to a 5 in defence under pressure but playing a traditional back 4 when attacking.
As we saw especially in the semi final - playing triple defence can leave the midfield wide open because 5 of our players will be playing as potential defenders - that's why a player like Dier who can position himself at CDM before dropping in to CB - gives us the best of both worlds. Dier allows us to have a 3 man midfield alongside a 3 man defence purely dependant on the situation.
So if we sign Maguire as the papers are suggesting is this gonna be the likely formation we start with;
....................DDG..............
.......Baily...Smalling..Maguire..
Valencia.......Matic.............Young
.............Fred.....Pogba..............
.......Lukaku..............Sanchez
....................DDG..............
.......Baily...Smalling..Maguire..
Valencia.......Matic.............Young
.............Fred.....Pogba..............
.......Lukaku..............Sanchez
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Meh, Would be a default loss in the first game if we start with this lineup.
12 players...
We have no best formation. We have no best team. This is emphasised by the fact every other week the general consensus changes about what our best formation is.
You really think we'd lose with 12 players in our starting lineup?
You take pessimism to a new level, mate
I’ve just came off a run of night shifts! I give up lol.Looked really lively in it today against Milan. A lot more attacking intent.
With a new centre back, and possibly a wing back instead of winger, we could really make this work.
With a new centre back, and possibly a wing back instead of winger, we could really make this work.
You really think we'd lose with 12 players in our starting lineup?
You take pessimism to a new level, mate
I'm watching with US subtitles and during first half it said we had shifted from 4-4-3 to 5-2-2. Now that's tactical flexibility.
Our defence always looks like a bit of a mess in it IMO. Also far too reliant on brilliant individual performances from one of the attackers.
I'd be more inclined for a 4-4-1-1 type or a good old 4-4-2. I'm not a fan of wingerless formations, but think to get the best out of Sanchez, play him up top alongside Lukaku. Fred is quick and has played as a wide right midfielder in the past, and can definitely fill that role, so we'd have a false midfield 3 type thing. Rashford left wing, but thats not ideal as he doesn't play as a proper winger and would congest the middle. Perisic in that situation would make a lot of sense. Of course we still have mediocre CB's and Young at LB, but that isnt changing anyway.
I'd be more inclined for a 4-4-1-1 type or a good old 4-4-2. I'm not a fan of wingerless formations, but think to get the best out of Sanchez, play him up top alongside Lukaku. Fred is quick and has played as a wide right midfielder in the past, and can definitely fill that role, so we'd have a false midfield 3 type thing. Rashford left wing, but thats not ideal as he doesn't play as a proper winger and would congest the middle. Perisic in that situation would make a lot of sense. Of course we still have mediocre CB's and Young at LB, but that isnt changing anyway.
De Gea
Valencia Bailly Smalling Young
Fred Pogba Matic Perisic
Lukaku Sanchez
Valencia Bailly Smalling Young
Fred Pogba Matic Perisic
Lukaku Sanchez
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We'll have a few problems with this formation. Smalling can't pass and Bailly isn't that good of a passer either. Valencia and Young need to contribute offensively which I doubt. But I get the idea behind this formation. Sanchez will do well playing centrally so we have to play with 2 strikers. We also have to play with a 3-man midfield after all the signings we have made. So it either has to be 352 or 442 diamond.
No. Our defence is not good enough. We always look all over the place defensively with this formation. Plus our wing backs cannot cross to save their lives so it just compounds things.
I agree with this formation if we don't sign any more players this season, but I really think we need to sign 2 or 3 more.
Yeah, decided to bump this.
I get your point. Made this thread before back in 2017 -- it was my first created thread. Got embarrassed tbh basically, thinking it's a bad idea and then, well.. 'that' happened.
Anyway,
Post #6, #24 & #35 (1st page) and #66 (2nd page) have the original OP, if you're still interested in knowing my thinking and reasonings back then 3 years ago.
Current Squad (Ole 2020)
Current squad, these could be best and fun.
Main Lineup 352
Alternative 3511
Either formation/system would allow new players eg. Tuanzebe to breakthrough more smoothly, and cover existing players drawbacks eg. Dalot, Bailly and Jones.
Main Lineup 352
Alternative 3511
Either formation/system would allow new players eg. Tuanzebe to breakthrough more smoothly, and cover existing players drawbacks eg. Dalot, Bailly and Jones.
Rashford as a wing back, that's definitely...alternative.
Just don't enjoy the idea of United being a 3 at the back side. Sure certain games need it e.g. vs City but the DNA is always having our wingers higher up and more attacking players.
3-5-2 in my head is more of a pragmatic formation than a courageous one.
3-5-2 in my head is more of a pragmatic formation than a courageous one.
Not all 3 5 2 require wingbacks.
You can play wingers higher up the pitch and allow your cbs to pull out wide.
Think of ajax 95 team that won the CL
This isnt a professional write up but it gives you an idea.
https://community.sigames.com/topic/438305-ajax-1995/
United could play shaw maguire and awb all 3 very good defenders.
Awb and shaw would be comfortable if they get dragged out wide defensively or if we use them like Sheffield united do in an attacking sense driving forward up the wing unexpected from centre backs.
Defensive mid to be acquired
McT and Fred/pogba in CM
Bruno as 10
With a front 3 of sancho martial and rashford
Edit
Heres a bit more of a professional write up
https://www.google.com/amp/s/footballfanzine.co.uk/tactics-guide-louis-van-gaals-ajax-1995/amp/
Id love the atheltic to dive into this formation because i actually think its the best there is but it requires a specific type of player at every position.
You don't need to go back and change an op from three years ago no matter how badly it has aged. We all get things wrong sometimes and that's okay.
I'm fed up of seeing teams cut through us in midfield, so I'd gladly see us play a 4 in central midfiled with our current squad.
This formation would allow us to alternate between who's in the back three and who's a wingback depending on the circumstances. Lindelöf/Bailly, AWB and James for the right, and Shaw, Williams, Rashford for the left.
[url=http://sharemytactics.com/143438/]
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This formation would allow us to alternate between who's in the back three and who's a wingback depending on the circumstances. Lindelöf/Bailly, AWB and James for the right, and Shaw, Williams, Rashford for the left.
[url=http://sharemytactics.com/143438/]
[/URL]The best attacking side in Europe uses a 3-5-2. It's all about how the coach goes about it. If he wants it to function as an aggressive attacking formation it will do so.
We don't have the wing backs.
Nah should only be used out of necessity, perhaps if we don’t manage to land Sancho. But otherwise it will never be as effective as a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1.
What's the best attacking team in Europe?
Liverpool? 4-3-3
I will rather play a diamond
Bissaka lindelof maguire shaw
Fred
Mctominay pogba
Fernandes
Martial Rashford
Both pogba and bruno play in their favourite position and we still get fred and mctominay to give us balance
Atalanta
Oh. I've heard really good things about them but what's their defense like and don't they have wingbacks good in attack?