Considering he was a nobody when he arrived in 2015 he's done alright for himself I think.
Compare him to Bakayoko who signed for Chelsea a few years later.
Compare him to Bakayoko who signed for Chelsea a few years later.
Unpopular Opinion - The Overrated N'Golo Kante
- Thread starter hmchan
- Start date
I feel Kante is overrated based on his continued disappointing performance since 17/18. This season just further magnifies his problems and I feel it's time to create this thread.
Many people believe his struggles this past year and two years are more due to injuries, and his talents not optimized in the proper playing setup. And from this, he's not being rated as overrated, more like not rated because he's not in his best position. It's like playing Paul Scholes as a left midfielder and saying what is his problem, he's overrated when he never belonged there to begin with.
Hes not been fully fit this season.
Giggs and Scholes are anomaly's as far as accepting reduced roles are concerned, most formerly world class players just can't do it, Rooney, Terry and Cech for example bolted at the earliest opportunity after they lost their untouchable status's, even Mr Liverpool personified Robbie Fowler left after Heskey and Owen gazumped him.
If Kante was put on the market he will still despite his recent record have his pick of high profile clubs (the Real rumours especially just won't go away) can you see him sticking around as a squad player if a similar level team offer him a bonafide starting place? And even if he wanted too it doesn't make financial sense to have an asset who would attract big money playing a Ji Sung Park role.
20-25 league starts is hardly a squad player. In my opinion the midfield is the area of the team that should be rotated the most. So if a team like Chelsea is playing a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 then they have Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic, Barkley, Mount and Gilmour to rotate for 3 positions...
Suiting a particular style of play = overrated? Lots of players suit different tactical setups. How good would Messi be in a team that played defensively and constantly hit long balls at him?
Kante was actually quite good at times in 4 3 3, last year though. Few players struggled at times with Sarri ball.
All his best seasons have come playing in a midfield two, Leicester, France, Conte Chelsea. All those teams were tactically similar, he is one of the best in the world playing that setup.
Kante was actually quite good at times in 4 3 3, last year though. Few players struggled at times with Sarri ball.
All his best seasons have come playing in a midfield two, Leicester, France, Conte Chelsea. All those teams were tactically similar, he is one of the best in the world playing that setup.
All “midfield destroyers” like Kante are overrated really. It became quite fashionable for a time to wax lyrical about how important these players are - and they are important - but it’s a job that only really requires a modicum of talent + strong discipline and fitness levels. Remember, Brian Clough once said “anybody can put their foot through a Picasso, it is much harder to paint one”
I feel like you would always want a player to be good at ball recovery and pressing AND good on the ball - but these are in very short supply so most teams settle for one “destroyer”
I feel like you would always want a player to be good at ball recovery and pressing AND good on the ball - but these are in very short supply so most teams settle for one “destroyer”
No. Kante didn't play as a DM and stay put at Leicester. He didn't just sit back and protect the defence, instead ran up and down the field and covered every blade of the grass. It's his vertical coverage that made him so special and in case you forgot, there were plenty of memes suggesting 70% of the Earth was covered by ocean and the rest by Kante.
Kante playing in the DM role and he spends his best time there are collective false memories. Maybe because people love putting him in that position in video games, maybe because the media keep emphasizing his defensive ability so much that people assume he plays there, I don't know. There are plenty of posts and articles suggest otherwise:
https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation...WcMSfilvnUIkyQyX6Ar1uZoJndkw1lHO4xd1R6YrdjBh8
As the Chelsea fan @Dancfc has said, it's not a positional issue, but a problem with his playstyle. He's not good enough on the ball, no matter as a 6 or an 8, in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, simple as that. The only consistency between him and success is that the team has to give up possession and probably play a 2-man midfield.
True, that's why I feel Herrera is also massively overrated. Fred just shows how easily replaceable he is.
Certainly it became fashionable to point to him as the thinking man's figure behind Leicester's title win (wasn't part of the Championship team, tactical role better fodder for boring Tifo Football videos, not a total scrote like Jamie Vardy) and when he followed that up with winning the league at Chelsea those same people started acting like was an unstoppable midfield God. Under that higher praise and scrutiny he was always going to look like he's declined when he's always been a valuable cog in the machine rather than the driving force.
He is. Why? i feel 1/17 wasalso overrated and he won the pfa award off not winning it in 15/16. Hazard was the best player in 16/17, no him
You just said it right there that Kante isn't good enough on the ball and part of being a box to box midfielder is being good on the ball and without the ball because you have to support the attack competently, as well as track back from central midfield and track runs or mark players come into the box then transition not only the ball but yourself towards the opposition box. I think at the very least, it's fair to say that Kante is a central midfield player who makes the most optimal impact on a football match as a defensive genius who intercepts, tackles, retrieves, screens his defensive backline, presses, closes down players, etc. His best actions are defensive and that benefits his team tremendously. If you're not able to maximize a player's strength, a Premier League winner and World Cup winner from the heart of the team (i.e. midfield), I will have my doubts as to "a problem with his playstyle".
Kante covers a lot of ground because he's pressing, retrieving the ball, closing down players all from a lower central midfield position throughout a match. Kante couldn't just sit back and sweep like Busquets or Carrick because he couldn't pass nearly as well as them nor does he have the ability to be a metronome with/without the ball.
Most tackles per season in the Premier League since 14/15/:
14/15 - Matic (129)
15/16 - Kante (175), Idrissa Gueye (144)
16/17 - Idrissa Gueye (135), Kante (127), Romeu (117)
17/18 - Ndidi (138), Idrissa Gueye (117), Kante (117)
18/19 - Ndidi (143), Idrissa Gueye (142)
Here's something that I found interesting. France's possession stats at the 2018 World Cup:
41% against Argentina
40% against Belgium
39% against Croatia
France essentially gave up possession against any decent opponent. They instead opted to play very simple and direct football. Kante breaks up play. Pogba pings long ball. Mbappe runs behind the defense.
But let's be honest here, a midfield with Kante and Matuidi was never going to dominate possession against teams who have actual talented players on the ball.
41% against Argentina
40% against Belgium
39% against Croatia
France essentially gave up possession against any decent opponent. They instead opted to play very simple and direct football. Kante breaks up play. Pogba pings long ball. Mbappe runs behind the defense.
But let's be honest here, a midfield with Kante and Matuidi was never going to dominate possession against teams who have actual talented players on the ball.
Too average on the ball. It will catch up with you after a certain point
If Kante is overrated what the feck is Fred?
Kante is twice the players Fred is. Injury and out of form and suddenly he's shit....
This place
Wouldn't say he's overrated.
But yes, he does has his limitations
which is clear to see. He's like an energetic sweeper in midfield with very good ball-carrying abilities driving forward. Will get found out lacking in a possession based system. At best in a defensive and especially more so in counter-attack systems.
Still deserve to be regarded as one of the best midfielders for about 2-3 years ago. Not this season though.
But yes, he does has his limitations
which is clear to see. He's like an energetic sweeper in midfield with very good ball-carrying abilities driving forward. Will get found out lacking in a possession based system. At best in a defensive and especially more so in counter-attack systems.Still deserve to be regarded as one of the best midfielders for about 2-3 years ago. Not this season though.
It was agonizing seeing so many armchair managers blame Chelsea's struggles on not playing him in the "right" position.
It was even more bizarre to see people blame the purchase of Jorginho as a reason why Kante is struggling.
Like, positionally Jorginho and Matic play the same role, so why isn't Kante playing as well as he did in 2016/17?
Not surprised Redcafe seems very quick to shit on him.. he always seems to come back and prove people wrong.
Firstly he’s had to overcome a succession of injury problems which is bound to hinder him due to athletic nature of his game.
Secondly he’s just a very peculiar player from a tactical perspective and doesn’t really suit playing in a normal three man midfield as he’s abit of a free spirited defensive mid with aggressive pressing characteristics and thus doesn’t suit being a pivot or as a midfield playmaker.
Bit of a nightmare from a tactical perspective but there is no doubt he’s a great player when in the right set up and some of the crap that gets spewed about his ability on the ball is crazy. His range of passing might be average but he’s very nimble in terms of press resistance and his short passing is solid.. not a donkey.
Kante is more like a box-to-box than a holding midfielder because he has the huge vertical coverage and stamina to run up and down the pitch, but he's an incompetent one as he lacks quality on the ball. More precisely, you may call him a ball winning midfielder whose only responsibility is to recover the ball, but he's definitely not a defensive midfielder who sits in front of the backline.
I agree that Kante is a defensive genius, but that's all he has and he's not complete enough to be a top midfielder nowadays, either as a 6 or an 8. That's why it's so difficult to offer an optimized role for him. The only way to maximize his strength is to give up possessions so that he can avoid getting the ball, but it's risky and not always easy for a larger side to play that way.
Well, not being able to play in some of the more prominent systems does make you a lesser footballer. Messi works in any system and any league, so it's not really a comparison. Even in a direct team he'd be great playing off a strong CF uptop in one of those little and large combos. He works in possession football, counterattacking football and any other kind of football. So it's not the best example.
The guy is everywhere. Using some current stats with a Chelsea team that is far from brilliant to support your narrative doesn't prove he is overrated just that he has a dip in form. Personally I would love to have him here and he would surley be an improvement to Fred and Mctominay.
If Chelsea cant get the best out of him in their systems, Id cash in and use to bolster their defence. Dont think he has looked his usual self next to Jorginho. They just dont fit well. PSG, Atletico or Bayern seems more ideal
Kante is pretty useful in big games, and I have already stated that in the original post. It's also true that he's had 2 great games against Liverpool this season. In big matches, there are plenty of opportunities for him to showcase his incredible ability in ball recovery, which is his strength undoubtedly. There are also lots of space for him to dribble and pass, so that his weaknesses are hidden.
Problem is, most larger sides have more of the ball in 95% of their games. If a player only finds himself useful in 5% of the games throughout the season, is he really THAT good? You've said it yourself, it's a bit of nightmare from a tactical perspective, and I certainly wouldn't rate a player so high with all those limitations. He'll be missed in some big games (e.g. vs Bayern) for sure, but it isn't worth to sacrifice 95% of the games imo.
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I don't think anyone is shitting on him and everyone thinks he's great at what he does, and I'm certainly not basing my opinion from his last two seasons, I have always felt this way.
He has superb tackling, acceleration and energy, and does a phenomenal job for his team. That does not make someone the best midfielder in the world though, which is what he's been called and why I use the word overrated.
He is someone you want next to the best midfielder in the world.
He has superb tackling, acceleration and energy, and does a phenomenal job for his team. That does not make someone the best midfielder in the world though, which is what he's been called and why I use the word overrated.
He is someone you want next to the best midfielder in the world.
Yes but it’s like putting Beckham into the Barca side under Pep and saying he’s overrated because he looks like a misfit in that side.
For me an overrated player is someone who plays in his preferred system and position and still isn’t performing. Kante has proven that when he plays in the right set up for him and is fit - he’s a world beater.
The only thing I will say is annoying is that people say he’s a world class lone CDM etc because it does overlook the fact he needs a very specific environment in order to thrive - but then again that could be said for vast majority of players.
Maybe just maybe hes been injured and rushed back most of the season. Jist like he was for the europa final last year.
Yes hes had some poor games but the first 2 games we had against pool and against man city away the 2 best teams in the league his performances were fantastic especially in the super cup and at the etihad even pep praised him.
People call Lukaku a donkey despite the fact he scores goals for fun because he is technically limited, yet people on here stick up for Kante despite his obvious limitations as a footballer.
You couldn't make it up.
Kante is decent but nothing more.
You couldn't make it up.
Kante is decent but nothing more.
If Lukaku put in great performances against the best teams then nobody would have the right to criticise him. Kante on the other hand is usually great against the better teams.
Kante has played a huge role in two league titles and a world cup. What has Lukaku ever won ?
Maybe many people haven't watched Kante at all, that's why they're unaware of his "obvious" limitations. That also explains why so many assume he played as a DM sitting in front of the backline at Leicester and Chelsea. Many fans nowadays just make their judgement based on the information presented by the media.
Kante is a great player but he is also quite specialist and requires certain set ups/formations. In particular, he is not a player that plays at his best in a possession game as his strengths are coverage, intercepting and counter attacking (or setting the counter up). For that reason, he really needs to either play in a 4231/343/442 type of formation to be at his best.
Personally, have quite a lot of Chelsea mates and they all love him and class him as there only world class player. However, they pretty much all said that he should probably be sold (this was prior to CV19) as he would raise serious coin and that would maybe allow them to get a No.6 that is more suited to a 433/possession based game and still turn a profit.
My opinion of Kante is, yes, technically he is not the most grifted footballer but at the things he does excel at, as listed above, he is pretty much head and shoulders above any other No.4/No.6 in those areas.
Personally, have quite a lot of Chelsea mates and they all love him and class him as there only world class player. However, they pretty much all said that he should probably be sold (this was prior to CV19) as he would raise serious coin and that would maybe allow them to get a No.6 that is more suited to a 433/possession based game and still turn a profit.
My opinion of Kante is, yes, technically he is not the most grifted footballer but at the things he does excel at, as listed above, he is pretty much head and shoulders above any other No.4/No.6 in those areas.
I think we are getting our meanings of defensive midfielder and holding midfielder mixed up. No, Kante did not play as a holding midfielder. But yes, he played as a DM whose job was to win the ball back for his team...
Arturo Vidal in his prime (2011-16) offered the same workrate, intensity, pressing, and ball winning abilities as N’Golo Kante. On top of that, Vidal was a significantly better passer and goalscorer than Kante. In fact, Vidal even finished as Juve’s top scorer one season IIRC. Vidal was also good enough on the ball to be an undisputed starter for a Pep Guardiola team in 2015/16. That season he was arguably Bayern’s best performer along with Lewandowski. At international level, Vidal inspired Chile to two Copa America titles. That’s at least as impressive as what Kante has done for France.
And yet, I do not remember Vidal ever being anywhere near as hyped as Kante. Why is that? Is it because Kante plays in the PL? Or is it because Kante appears to be a nice guy while Vidal is a bit of an arse? I do not know.
Anyway, I do think that Kante is, and has always been overrated. A player who only performs great when his team concede 60% possession is not a great player in my book. Players like Vidal, Keane, Vieira and Davids could offer everything Kante can and so much more.
And yet, I do not remember Vidal ever being anywhere near as hyped as Kante. Why is that? Is it because Kante plays in the PL? Or is it because Kante appears to be a nice guy while Vidal is a bit of an arse? I do not know.
Anyway, I do think that Kante is, and has always been overrated. A player who only performs great when his team concede 60% possession is not a great player in my book. Players like Vidal, Keane, Vieira and Davids could offer everything Kante can and so much more.
Do love it when people criticise players based on what their respective teams win.
It's a team game for a reason.
But apart from a Belgian league title, third place at the world cup, numerous golden boots, numerous player of the season at his respective clubs, and being his country's all time leading scorer, not a huge amount really.
Vidal is Chilean, that's his problem.
If he was Argentinian or French or German, there wouldn't be any single doubt about who is the best and most complete midfielder of the last decade. The king of the box to box midfielders.
Arturo Vidal possibly being overlooked has nothing to do with Kante. Kante was a key player in 2 PL title-winning teams and a World Cup-winning team. You don't judge players based on who is best in a possession-based side. I don't understand how Kante is overrated when he's constantly compared to lesser players (see Herrera, Ander).
Kante, along with Veratti, stand out to me as one of the very midfielders who've been able to singlehandedly boss our midfield over the past two years. He is a great team player with more than enough individual quality to make the difference in midfield against the best sides.
So what if he's wasted in the wrong setup. That was also true for Seedorf and Pirlo until Ancelotti got to work with them.
So what if he's wasted in the wrong setup. That was also true for Seedorf and Pirlo until Ancelotti got to work with them.
My point was that Kante's lack of 'technique' doesn't stop him or his team winning big trophies each year and he regularly puts in big performances against the big teams. Lukaku on the other hand doesn't put in big performances against the big teams (due to lacking that extra class) and it can cost his team titles come the end of the season.