Unpopular Opinion - The Overrated N'Golo Kante

hmchan

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I'm not surprised that this correction gets skirt around. OPs whole argument falls flat on its face. It's a small sample size, it doesn't take into account the opposition but treats everyone as equal. It doesn't take into account circumstance (i.e. injury, fatigue, home or away match, competition) and it treats every match played equally no matter if he played 90 minutes or 5 minutes. But OP formatted the numbers and put them in a nice table and a lot of people won't therefor question it.

Kante aside this Chelsea side is playing young players which will be inconsistent. They have a new manager who hasn't got everything figured out yet. They've had a striker problem which isn't taken into account either in OP.
I agree that plenty of factors affect the outcome of matches, but the table at least suggests there's a strong correlation between the team performance and Kante's presence. Unless you think Chelsea's young players are inconsistent only when Kante plays and the manager is confused only when Kante's fit, they won't contribute to the huge difference reflected from the table. Is the sample size small? Well maybe I could perform a statistical test if this is an academic journal but in the end, it's just another discussion on a forum after all.

Nonetheless, I'm surprised that someone's claiming my whole argument falls flat based only on the table while ignoring the remaining 5 paragraphs of arguments. I feel Kante's overrated because of his limitation on the ball, lack of versatility and all-round ability etc, not simply because the team loses when he plays. The table is never an argument itself and it only serves as a reference.
 

Sayros

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I feel like whatever argument people want to have about his game kind of falls flat when he's been instrumental in a WC-winning side, and back-to-back PL champs with two different teams, but I realize it's a lame way of trying to shut down the debate. I haven't followed him at Chelsea in recent times, I understand his form has dropped, but he was always limited or not very versatile as a player, but if he's used correctly he's absolutely a world-class player at what he does and it's a role that I feel still has a very important place in today's football, although that may change in time. I hope that narrative continues though and someone is dumb enough to sell him for a reasonable price.
 

Champ

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Ooof, terrible take!

Kante was probably France's most important player and was praised by anybody who actually watched France. He had a stomach virus during the final but was so important to the team, Deschamps still went with him but he couldn't perform to his usual self and was substituted.
Sigh.
He trained before the game, played the final, got hauled off, didn't move from the bench for the rest of the game, then spent the next hour after the game celebrating with the team.
Stomach bug indeed.
 

Champ

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Regardless of the final, he was great during the tournament.
He wasn't great. France weren't great.
Their performances were laboured, they lacked goals...until they took Kante out of the team.
 

VorZakone

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Ooof, terrible take!

Kante was probably France's most important player and was praised by anybody who actually watched France. He had a stomach virus during the final but was so important to the team, Deschamps still went with him but he couldn't perform to his usual self and was substituted.
First of all, what's your source for Kante having a stomach virus during the final? Neither Kante himself or Deschamps have said anything about it. I haven't found sources that quote them.

Second, no way was Kante probably France's most important player. IMO Pogba outshone him.
 

Dave Smith

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To be honest, you could say the same for Makhalele. He needed to be played in a 3 or him performances, whilst still good, would not be top level. Its great for your system to suit your top most talent, but I also believe they should also make the effort to become truly effective in a manager's system. It's the chief problem I have with unadaptable attacking midfielders who can't play upfront, on the wing or in central midfield. Football is an ever evolving game, if that position and the way the role is played no longer exists, these players cease to be effective. Ozil and Griezman are prime examples of this. For me, if you are a winger, you should adapt your game to be able to play on both sides of the pitch. There was a time in football where teams could not afford to sign 3 - 4 class players a season and players would have to adapt to the roles created for them. Scholes managed to stay effective despite playing as a second striker, attacking midfielder, box to box midfielder, deep lying midfielder and left midfielder. It's the job of the player to make himself useful to the team.
Yes, he isn't that flexible with his play but in the right system he would pretty much be the best player on that team. I get why people would say Kante does not deserve to be spoken about as a all time great. However, if you are a team that can play to his style he would be an amazing player for you. For me he is kind of the the inverse of jack of all trades, master of none.
 

Sayros

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Sigh.
He trained before the game, played the final, got hauled off, didn't move from the bench for the rest of the game, then spent the next hour after the game celebrating with the team.
Stomach bug indeed.
Winning a world cup is kind of a big deal, sometimes the adrenaline will carry you to do things you wouldn't do if you were just home alone.

First of all, what's your source for Kante having a stomach virus during the final? Neither Kante himself or Deschamps have said anything about it. I haven't found sources that quote them.

Second, no way was Kante probably France's most important player. IMO Pogba outshone him.
Pogba, very much like Mbappe, came alive in the knock out stages, he was subpar during the group stages. Kante was consistently great throughout the tournament. I believe Tolisso even had a game instead of Pogba (IIRC) and France didn't skip a beat, but you wouldn't be able to do the same without Kante for most of the games France played.

As far as my source, Deschamps did talk about it, it's been reported throughout many media so if you're not too lazy for a simple google search, you'll find the answer you haven't found any sources for, it's pretty common knowledge. Also Kante doesn't say anything about anything, so he's not going to make excuses or talk about it, or anything...seriously, the guy is almost a mute who was too shy to even ask to hold the trophy.

And yes, Kante was widely considered France's most important midfielder, if not player for some.
 

POF

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No, you don't. It's a label that simply assesses the level of player at a certain point in time. It has nothing to do with his entire career. You could and often should have a different list of world class players every year, a very young player can be world class, a relatively old player can reach a new level and be world class at the end of his career while he wasn't at the beginning or the middle and a player can lose that label when his level drops.
So how long is long enough? Was Toto Schilacci world class for one tournament in 1990? Or Oleg Salenko for one game in USA 94? How about Macheda for 5 seconds when he scored that winner vs Villa or Riley McGree for his scorpion lob?

You have an incredibly low bar for labelling someone world class. Form is temporary, class is permanent.
 

hmchan

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First of all, what's your source for Kante having a stomach virus during the final? Neither Kante himself or Deschamps have said anything about it. I haven't found sources that quote them.

Second, no way was Kante probably France's most important player. IMO Pogba outshone him.
Mbappe and Varane were the 2 French players chosen to be in the Dream Team. Pogba and Griezmann were not chosen but they were highly praised in the official technical report written by the FIFA Technical Study Group. Kante at least came behind them.
 

JPRouve

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So how long is long enough? Was Toto Schilacci world class for one tournament in 1990? Or Oleg Salenko for one game in USA 94? How about Macheda for 5 seconds when he scored that winner vs Villa or Riley McGree for his scorpion lob?

You have an incredibly low bar for labelling someone world class. Form is temporary, class is permanent.
I rarely label players world class, I'm not a fan of the label itself and hasn't used it for Kanté, so I'm not sure where you get that low bar from and world class is a temporary label not a permanent one. And it's interesting to see you talk about Kanté being good for 2-3 years and now reducing it to 1 game or one tournament. My point on that subject was that this label has nothing to do with previous generations and it's not a permanent one, you should simply rank him during the 2-3 years that you deemed to be good and I said one of the best, you are the one who said world class.

As for my bar, it's a peculiar one, if I really have to give that label I look at the current CL semifinal contenders and believe that any player that can currently start for them is world class. And again it's not a substitute for all time great which actually is a permanent label.
 

ivaldo

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I feel if Kante hadn't emerged in the way that he had, and if he wasn't such a nice guy, then he wouldn't be rated nearly as highly. Just look at the number of excuses on offer on this page. It was the manager/formation/injury/stomach bug. There are some that even claim hrs good on the ball.

Fantastic ball winner, poor ball player.
 

JPRouve

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I feel if Kante hadn't emerged in the way that he had, and if he wasn't such a nice guy, then he wouldn't be rated nearly as highly. Just look at the number of excuses on offer on this page. It was the manager/formation/injury/stomach bug. There are some that even claim hrs good on the ball.

Fantastic ball winner, poor ball player.
Are those excuses? If someone ask about a specific game they will have a specific answer and even if we ignore it, players have bad games from time to time. And he is good on the ball, he isn't elite though which is why playing constantly higher as he did with Sarri was a very strange thing, I personally don't know if it was his own failure to understand his role or if it was a request from Sarri, I suspect that it was on Kanté but I will never know. And the fact that he has lacked durability is a negative, not an excuse but it doesn't affect is past performances, it just affects what he is today.
 

VorZakone

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Winning a world cup is kind of a big deal, sometimes the adrenaline will carry you to do things you wouldn't do if you were just home alone.



Pogba, very much like Mbappe, came alive in the knock out stages, he was subpar during the group stages. Kante was consistently great throughout the tournament. I believe Tolisso even had a game instead of Pogba (IIRC) and France didn't skip a beat, but you wouldn't be able to do the same without Kante for most of the games France played.

As far as my source, Deschamps did talk about it, it's been reported throughout many media so if you're not too lazy for a simple google search, you'll find the answer you haven't found any sources for, it's pretty common knowledge. Also Kante doesn't say anything about anything, so he's not going to make excuses or talk about it, or anything...seriously, the guy is almost a mute who was too shy to even ask to hold the trophy.

And yes, Kante was widely considered France's most important midfielder, if not player for some.
I did a Google search. Can't find any quote that he knew about Kante being sick in the final.
Speaking a week on from France's 4-2 win against Croatia in the Russian capital, Deschamps told reporters: "I do not know what happened with N'Golo in the final. It was horrible for him.

"N'Golo is a real ray of sunshine, a true joy. When he came off, I asked him if he was OK. His quiet reply was: 'No, no, do not worry - I am fine, coach.' Everybody loves N'Golo - he is a little phenomenon.
https://amp.sportsmole.co.uk/football/chelsea/world-cup/news/deschamps-kante-had-a-horrible-final_331231.html
 

VorZakone

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I feel if Kante hadn't emerged in the way that he had, and if he wasn't such a nice guy, then he wouldn't be rated nearly as highly. Just look at the number of excuses on offer on this page. It was the manager/formation/injury/stomach bug. There are some that even claim hrs good on the ball.

Fantastic ball winner, poor ball player.
The stomach bug one really annoys me. 1 French newspaper (Le Parisien) claimed this and suddenly it's the truth.
 

Sayros

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The stomach bug one really annoys me. 1 French newspaper (Le Parisien) claimed this and suddenly it's the truth.
You need a quote from Deschamps? You're not going to find quotes from Kante about it, he most likely never said anything about it, but it was very clear he wasn't the same. I just don't understand why it's such a big conspiracy when the guy showed a level of performance throughout every game of the tournament except the final. Le Parisien is going to make up a sickness for what? It's just a weird thing to try and hang on to or be bugged about when the most likely logical explanation was that he was actually sick.
 

VorZakone

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You need a quote from Deschamps? You're not going to find quotes from Kante about it, he most likely never said anything about it, but it was very clear he wasn't the same. I just don't understand why it's such a big conspiracy when the guy showed a level of performance throughout every game of the tournament except the final. Le Parisien is going to make up a sickness for what? It's just a weird thing to try and hang on to or be bugged about when the most likely logical explanation was that he was actually sick.
Why would that be more logical than Kante simply being poor in the final? It happens. There's no shame in that.

I gave you a Deschamps quote, you haven't given your sources.
 

Sayros

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Why would that be more logical than Kante simply being poor in the final? It happens. There's no shame in that.

I gave you a Deschamps quote, you haven't given your sources.
You can be poor in the final no problem, but it was pretty clear he was not at his level and then the reports came out he was sick. I don't know what else to tell you, if you want to believe the idea that somehow there was a made up disease printed in journals for a player who just won the world cup, who truly doesn't care what people say about him and never talks or makes excuses (which is probably why he never told anybody on the team about being sick), you go ahead and believe that but there are better conspiracies out there.

Either way, it's completely irrelevant to the fact that Kante was France's best and most important midfielder throughout the tournament and was widely recognized as such. It doesn't mean he's a better player than Pogba, he was just more consistent and his role was more important to the success of the team. There's no shame in that.
 

VorZakone

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You can be poor in the final no problem, but it was pretty clear he was not at his level and then the reports came out he was sick. I don't know what else to tell you, if you want to believe the idea that somehow there was a made up disease printed in journals for a player who just won the world cup, who truly doesn't care what people say about him and never talks or makes excuses (which is probably why he never told anybody on the team about being sick), you go ahead and believe that but there are better conspiracies out there.

Either way, it's completely irrelevant to the fact that Kante was France's best and most important midfielder throughout the tournament and was widely recognized as such. It doesn't mean he's a better player than Pogba, he was just more consistent and his role was more important to the success of the team. There's no shame in that.
I gave you a quote from Deschamps saying he didn't know what was wrong with Kante. You prefer to put so much stock on 1 report by Le Parisien. Other media outlets simply quoted Le Parisien. I really don't understand why you see that report as some definitive truth.

The fact that I don't see it as a definitive truth somehow means I also think it was a conspiracy? That's quite the reach.
 

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I feel like whatever argument people want to have about his game kind of falls flat when he's been instrumental in a WC-winning side, and back-to-back PL champs with two different teams, but I realize it's a lame way of trying to shut down the debate. I haven't followed him at Chelsea in recent times, I understand his form has dropped, but he was always limited or not very versatile as a player, but if he's used correctly he's absolutely a world-class player at what he does and it's a role that I feel still has a very important place in today's football, although that may change in time. I hope that narrative continues though and someone is dumb enough to sell him for a reasonable price.
Exactly this. His top level was marvellous. You’re only an injury and a bad season before fans move on to the next thing. Yes he may have peaked already but at his best he was one of the best players in his position in the world and 99% of players can’t say that. Maybe he’s plateaued into a squad player for now and could go either way but i doubt any chelsea or Leicester fans would swap his best years for anyone else. Overrated implies he was never even that good in the first place which simply isn’t true. I loved those games where Ander played all over him though :)
 

ivaldo

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Are those excuses? If someone ask about a specific game they will have a specific answer and even if we ignore it, players have bad games from time to time. And he is good on the ball, he isn't elite though which is why playing constantly higher as he did with Sarri was a very strange thing, I personally don't know if it was his own failure to understand his role or if it was a request from Sarri, I suspect that it was on Kanté but I will never know. And the fact that he has lacked durability is a negative, not an excuse but it doesn't affect is past performances, it just affects what he is today.
Yes they are excuses. And no, he isn't good on the ball. If he's good on the ball, then so is every other midfielder in the league. He has a decent touch, but that's about it. His passing is erratic, often being over or under hit. If he was at all adventurous, then that could be forgiven, but he isn't.
 

Sayros

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I gave you a quote from Deschamps saying he didn't know what was wrong with Kante. You prefer to put so much stock on 1 report by Le Parisien. Other media outlets simply quoted Le Parisien. I really don't understand why you see that report as some definitive truth.

The fact that I don't see it as a definitive truth somehow means I also think it was a conspiracy? That's quite the reach.
Because only someone who's into conspiracies would question that there is a made up story about Kante being sick, nevermind trying to disprove it. You keep talking about your Deschamps quote as if it means anything when it could be the simple truth he had no idea what was wrong with Kante because Kante never said anything to him, since Kante played the whole tournament and wanted to finish it. Athletes tend to believe they can overcome everything, clearly he couldn't that night and it showed. It's not the Croatian midfield that changed anything for Kante, it was his health.

If this story was made up, it would first come from Kante making up the fact that he was sick, which is simply not gonna be something he does, and what would be the point of it on the back of winning a world cup? Why would a paper make up that story as well when there's countless more content to cover off the back of a world cup win? I mean, what are we even debating here?? This is nonsense and a complete waste of time to even question it. You believe whatever you want, dude, I'm not wasting another second on this.
 

Champ

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Winning a world cup is kind of a big deal, sometimes the adrenaline will carry you to do things you wouldn't do if you were just home alone.



Pogba, very much like Mbappe, came alive in the knock out stages, he was subpar during the group stages. Kante was consistently great throughout the tournament. I believe Tolisso even had a game instead of Pogba (IIRC) and France didn't skip a beat, but you wouldn't be able to do the same without Kante for most of the games France played.

As far as my source, Deschamps did talk about it, it's been reported throughout many media so if you're not too lazy for a simple google search, you'll find the answer you haven't found any sources for, it's pretty common knowledge. Also Kante doesn't say anything about anything, so he's not going to make excuses or talk about it, or anything...seriously, the guy is almost a mute who was too shy to even ask to hold the trophy.

And yes, Kante was widely considered France's most important midfielder, if not player for some.
Show me a quote from Deschamps regarding the illness, I can't find one....
Thanks.
 

Champ

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Except they scored 4 vs argentina
Thanks to Mbappe,
they also conceded 3, no thanks to Kante, the supposed midfield destroyer.
I remember France being questioned after this win, as they weren't playing well, I also remember Mbappe winning man of the match, I also remember Pogba getting higher marks in this game from nearly every publication than Kante.
 

Skills

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Is there any player out there that's correctly rated? It seems like everyone's either overrated or underrated.
 

Sayros

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Thanks to Mbappe,
they also conceded 3, no thanks to Kante, the supposed midfield destroyer.
I remember France being questioned after this win, as they weren't playing well, I also remember Mbappe winning man of the match, I also remember Pogba getting higher marks in this game from nearly every publication than Kante.
Nice way to move the goalposts, you asked for a high scoring game with Kante, there was one. Also, did you forget the group stage games or do we not count those? Give it up man, Kante was great in that tournament...I don't understand why it's so hard to accept for some here.

Show me a quote from Deschamps regarding the illness, I can't find one....
Thanks.
Nah.
 

Pow

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Thanks to Mbappe,
they also conceded 3, no thanks to Kante, the supposed midfield destroyer.
I remember France being questioned after this win, as they weren't playing well, I also remember Mbappe winning man of the match, I also remember Pogba getting higher marks in this game from nearly every publication than Kante.
What the feck are you on about. Why have you switched it up now ? You highlighted a single half because of the number of goals i gave you a game where they scored 4 also now you want to switch to defence.
Ok in 4 / 6 games leading up to the final they had a clean sheet. Now what.
 

VorZakone

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Because only someone who's into conspiracies would question that there is a made up story about Kante being sick, nevermind trying to disprove it. You keep talking about your Deschamps quote as if it means anything when it could be the simple truth he had no idea what was wrong with Kante because Kante never said anything to him, since Kante played the whole tournament and wanted to finish it. Athletes tend to believe they can overcome everything, clearly he couldn't that night and it showed. It's not the Croatian midfield that changed anything for Kante, it was his health.

If this story was made up, it would first come from Kante making up the fact that he was sick, which is simply not gonna be something he does, and what would be the point of it on the back of winning a world cup? Why would a paper make up that story as well when there's countless more content to cover off the back of a world cup win? I mean, what are we even debating here?? This is nonsense and a complete waste of time to even question it. You believe whatever you want, dude, I'm not wasting another second on this.
Wow, sorry. Your precious Kante was sick, okay. And the media always tells the truth, always.
 

El Jefe

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Calling Kante overrated is just hilarious to me. If his critics say he's no longer one of the best CM's in the world, I guess that's debatable due to form and injury.

One thing that's clear for me is Kante's impact on the game in his first three season in England were just as much as any midfielder we've seen in PL history. I understand his style is different to traditional midfielders and some may not like his style but one thing that can't be denied is he dominated the midfield week in week out in his own unique way. I mean he was voted by his teammates as the player of the year in his two PL title wins.

It's also complete horseshit to say he isn't good on the ball. He's good on the ball and better than good with the ball in tight spaces. I do agree he's very limited in his passing range but who can do what he does and also be a fantastic passer? You'd have to go back two decades to name five.

Then again I've noticed a section of Redcafe has never liked Kante and in my view have been envious of the praise he received from the media etc. It was clear as day in the Herrera vs Kante thread which crazy enough some were still too stubborn to accept defeat.
 

Snow

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I agree that plenty of factors affect the outcome of matches, but the table at least suggests there's a strong correlation between the team performance and Kante's presence. Unless you think Chelsea's young players are inconsistent only when Kante plays and the manager is confused only when Kante's fit, they won't contribute to the huge difference reflected from the table. Is the sample size small? Well maybe I could perform a statistical test if this is an academic journal but in the end, it's just another discussion on a forum after all.

Nonetheless, I'm surprised that someone's claiming my whole argument falls flat based only on the table while ignoring the remaining 5 paragraphs of arguments. I feel Kante's overrated because of his limitation on the ball, lack of versatility and all-round ability etc, not simply because the team loses when he plays. The table is never an argument itself and it only serves as a reference.
Your ability falls flat because you're mostly going by feeling. On one hand you acknowledge that he's one of the top midfielders in the world but then say that's not all that good by pointing at the stats. He took part in 22 games, did not feature once as a sub and missed 19 through injury. That's half the games that he missed in an incosistent side in an unfinished season. Another thing to note that in these 18 games that he managed to feature in in the league they did not always play the same system. Just looking at the matches I see about 4 different systems. 5 at the back, sometimes 2 DMs, sometimes the 1. Sometimes he's playing with Jorginho, sometimes behind other players, sometimes with Kovacic. Lampard is doing a lot of different things against different opponents and that means that some players will benefit and some players will not each time. Obviously most players haven't benefited from these frequent changes or he wouldn't be making so many of them, both in change of formation and personnel. That's what you should be looking at, not the pure stats because ultimately the sample size is just too low.

Looking at the games alone is never a good measure. See Matshuayi for example. 1 goal in 16 PL games. Shocking right? Well, in those 16 matches he has 1 start and only 224 minutes which is less than 2,5 matches of game time (14 minutes per match to be exact).

Even if Kante has played worse does that make him a lesser player? No. Ultimately it's only a handful of games that you can point to him being bad because he didn't play that much.

I remember the United game well where they dominated us for most of the 1st half but after the Kante injury there was a mentality shift in the United side. Chelsea simply didn't feel as dangerous without him in midfield. Yes Mason Mount can do a few things that Kante doesn't but overall he's not near the same level. With a fully fit squad Kante is the first name on the Lampard's team sheet and the only player at Chelsea that would walk into our team and City's and Liverpool's without a doubt.
 

hmchan

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You can be poor in the final no problem, but it was pretty clear he was not at his level and then the reports came out he was sick. I don't know what else to tell you, if you want to believe the idea that somehow there was a made up disease printed in journals for a player who just won the world cup, who truly doesn't care what people say about him and never talks or makes excuses (which is probably why he never told anybody on the team about being sick), you go ahead and believe that but there are better conspiracies out there.

Either way, it's completely irrelevant to the fact that Kante was France's best and most important midfielder throughout the tournament and was widely recognized as such. It doesn't mean he's a better player than Pogba, he was just more consistent and his role was more important to the success of the team. There's no shame in that.
Because only someone who's into conspiracies would question that there is a made up story about Kante being sick, nevermind trying to disprove it. You keep talking about your Deschamps quote as if it means anything when it could be the simple truth he had no idea what was wrong with Kante because Kante never said anything to him, since Kante played the whole tournament and wanted to finish it. Athletes tend to believe they can overcome everything, clearly he couldn't that night and it showed. It's not the Croatian midfield that changed anything for Kante, it was his health.

If this story was made up, it would first come from Kante making up the fact that he was sick, which is simply not gonna be something he does, and what would be the point of it on the back of winning a world cup? Why would a paper make up that story as well when there's countless more content to cover off the back of a world cup win? I mean, what are we even debating here?? This is nonsense and a complete waste of time to even question it. You believe whatever you want, dude, I'm not wasting another second on this.
Don't you find yourself contradicting? On one hand you insist Kante is a humble person who won't make excuses and tell anyone about his sickness; on the other hand you wholeheartedly believe in the article that claims he's sick in that game. So are you suggesting La Parisien spies on him in the toilet and finds out he's sick? Or he's not that humble after all and he tells someone he's sick? Or he isn't sick at all?

Verifying the source of an article isn't a conspiracy, it's called fact check and it's important as there're plenty of fake news on the Internet nowadays. Media like to make up stories so that people read their articles and they get higher click rates. Kante is widely loved by football fans, it isn't hard to imagine a positive story on him would attract loads of likes and shares. That's the same reason why the media like to write negative stories on Pogba.

Nonetheless, I don't understand why both sides pay so much attention on Kante's 55 minutes in the WC Final. For one side, he has plenty of better games that show he's a good player; for the other side, he also has plenty of worse games that prove he's overrated. Now, it seems the topic has deviated to "whether Kante's poor performance in the WC Final is well justified", which is definitely not my intention in the OP.

Again, in the WC, Mbappe and Varane were the 2 French players chosen to be in the Dream Team. Pogba and Griezmann were not chosen but they were highly praised in the official technical report written by the FIFA Technical Study Group. In terms of importance and performance, Kante at least came behind them.
 

hmchan

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Calling Kante overrated is just hilarious to me. If his critics say he's no longer one of the best CM's in the world, I guess that's debatable due to form and injury.

One thing that's clear for me is Kante's impact on the game in his first three season in England were just as much as any midfielder we've seen in PL history. I understand his style is different to traditional midfielders and some may not like his style but one thing that can't be denied is he dominated the midfield week in week out in his own unique way. I mean he was voted by his teammates as the player of the year in his two PL title wins.

It's also complete horseshit to say he isn't good on the ball. He's good on the ball and better than good with the ball in tight spaces. I do agree he's very limited in his passing range but who can do what he does and also be a fantastic passer? You'd have to go back two decades to name five.

Then again I've noticed a section of Redcafe has never liked Kante and in my view have been envious of the praise he received from the media etc. It was clear as day in the Herrera vs Kante thread which crazy enough some were still too stubborn to accept defeat.
Your post is just hilarious to me. Over the past 5 years, Kante has enjoyed 2 successful seasons, 1 okay season and 2 poor seasons. If you feel his critics are debatable due to form and injury, why couldn't I feel his success is also debatable just due to form?

The more funnier part is that you say Kante has dominated the midfield week in week out. In his title winning season at Leicester and Chelsea, as well as France in the WC, the team often has fewer possessions and that's the way which suits him. You call that domination?

It's also complete horseshit to say he's good on the ball. He often gives the ball away cheaply and is dispossessed easily. He also overhits and underhits a lot of passes which put his teammates in trouble.

It's clear as day that I don't rate Herrera as well so I don't understand why the "Herrera vs Kante" thing is brought up. As early as #50 I've already stated that Herrera is also overrated and I've criticized him a lot in the "Herrera Revisited" thread.
 

Champ

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Nice way to move the goalposts, you asked for a high scoring game with Kante, there was one. Also, did you forget the group stage games or do we not count those? Give it up man, Kante was great in that tournament...I don't understand why it's so hard to accept for some here.



Nah.
Didn't move the goalposts, I have maintained my stance throughout. I never asked for a high scoring game, merely a game where France destroyed their opponents, that was the final, and only when Kante was subbed.

Does such a quote exist?
 

Champ

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Don't you find yourself contradicting? On one hand you insist Kante is a humble person who won't make excuses and tell anyone about his sickness; on the other hand you wholeheartedly believe in the article that claims he's sick in that game. So are you suggesting La Parisien spies on him in the toilet and finds out he's sick? Or he's not that humble after all and he tells someone he's sick? Or he isn't sick at all?

Verifying the source of an article isn't a conspiracy, it's called fact check and it's important as there're plenty of fake news on the Internet nowadays. Media like to make up stories so that people read their articles and they get higher click rates. Kante is widely loved by football fans, it isn't hard to imagine a positive story on him would attract loads of likes and shares. That's the same reason why the media like to write negative stories on Pogba.

Nonetheless, I don't understand why both sides pay so much attention on Kante's 55 minutes in the WC Final. For one side, he has plenty of better games that show he's a good player; for the other side, he also has plenty of worse games that prove he's overrated. Now, it seems the topic has deviated to "whether Kante's poor performance in the WC Final is well justified", which is definitely not my intention in the OP.

Again, in the WC, Mbappe and Varane were the 2 French players chosen to be in the Dream Team. Pogba and Griezmann were not chosen but they were highly praised in the official technical report written by the FIFA Technical Study Group. In terms of importance and performance, Kante at least came behind them.
I agree with most of this, but mostly the last part, it appears to be revisionist history to claim that Kante has a great world cup, he didn't, there were other players in the French team who had way more impact on games and the team itself, that's not to say that Kante was poor, just over stated and over rated, as he has been his entire career so far.
 

shamans

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Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
I think the World Cup final summed him up nicely. He's brilliant when allowed to sit back and sweep up, but under pressure his ability on the ball isn't there. France looked like they might lose until Nzonzi replaced him.
Hes not a midfielfer that sits back. that whime outrage over sari playing him higher up was silly. Hes not an anchor and has always been a runner up the park
 

11101

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Hes not a midfielfer that sits back. that whime outrage over sari playing him higher up was silly. Hes not an anchor and has always been a runner up the park
He's not going to be a runner with the ball though. He is happiest without it, moving around to keep the ball out of a specific section of the field and winning it back if it comes into it.
 

shamans

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Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
He's not going to be a runner with the ball though. He is happiest without it, moving around to keep the ball out of a specific section of the field and winning it back if it comes into it.
He's simply not a deep player or one who thrives there at least. He needs to run around, press the ball and higher up/ box to boxish is best for him
 

11101

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He's simply not a deep player or one who thrives there at least. He needs to run around, press the ball and higher up/ box to boxish is best for him
He's no Pirlo but at the same time he's not a Pogba who needs to be driving forward to be at his best. He's a bit like Fred if you forget their on the ball ability.