I wonder what Arsenal will do? I clearly remember the response when Ozil passed comments on the Uighur people
BLM in the Prem
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
That is a brilliant idea. I would give you a like for that.
Yeah, it's crazy how entitled black people are, right?
If you try to feel outrage for every bad thing that happens in the world, you’re not going to cope mate. While I’m typing this someone will have been killed, another raped, another illegally sentenced, and so on. There is outrage for those deaths, your outrage, those officers’ families’ outrage, the communities’ outrage. That outrage shouldn’t be used for point scoring against other outrage though, divide and conquer keeps everything he same.
The movement which is currently going on represents a cause and an incredibly large number of disadvantaged people, larger than a human mind can comprehend, and it is what is being focused on in the hope of bringing lasting change for millions of people in the future.
Finally, on selective outrage, I’d say most people don’t know about those deaths, and most people are pretty thick. But as I said at the top, there are so many other injustices and hurts in the world, the human mind can’t process all of them.
I want to make this point also, cause it seems some people just can't get it around their heads
BLM or "Black lives matter" is not an organization or a movement exclusively.
Sure some group of people banded together and created this amazing movement to combat the racial inequalities and injustices faced by many black people across the world.
But the term black lives matter don't belong to them exclusively. For the Prem to use it is something they can advocate for in their own right. Sure they are now piggy backing on what is happening around us, but it should be a matter of principle to acknowledge that in the current climate, black peoples lives matter. That is not to say other groups don't, and that their plights should be ignored. Focusing on this right now, doesn't mean it detracts from other causes of injustice or prejudices that is worthy for us to fight for.
When women and children are constantly abused, it is right to stand against that when you have the opportunity, doesn't mean you think men and elderly are not important.
So when you say you against BLM, don't think of the organization or movement, but the principle of it, which is not their fight alone, it's all of ours. And so is all the other many causes we should stand for.
BLM or "Black lives matter" is not an organization or a movement exclusively.
Sure some group of people banded together and created this amazing movement to combat the racial inequalities and injustices faced by many black people across the world.
But the term black lives matter don't belong to them exclusively. For the Prem to use it is something they can advocate for in their own right. Sure they are now piggy backing on what is happening around us, but it should be a matter of principle to acknowledge that in the current climate, black peoples lives matter. That is not to say other groups don't, and that their plights should be ignored. Focusing on this right now, doesn't mean it detracts from other causes of injustice or prejudices that is worthy for us to fight for.
When women and children are constantly abused, it is right to stand against that when you have the opportunity, doesn't mean you think men and elderly are not important.
So when you say you against BLM, don't think of the organization or movement, but the principle of it, which is not their fight alone, it's all of ours. And so is all the other many causes we should stand for.
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Good decision.
C'mon man, you should know by now that nobody gives a shit about police. If you support the police you are basically a fascist nowadays.
Thread tags are on point 
well played.
well played.Not exactly sure why this was tagged as incomprehensible. It makes a couple of valid points. Identity politics and intersectionality do divide people. And companies adopt gimmicks to make it look like they're on the right side while their actions often show the opposite.
I think we can all agree that there should be zero tolerance for racism or police brutality. And raising awareness and putting pressure on the relevant governments is a good thing. The US can't ignore this now. They must act on police brutality and should now see the dangers of maintaining a system that keeps so much of their country's people in poverty. The people have spoken.
But as always some will overreach. A lot of measures being called for in the US right now under the banner of BLM are pretty stupid to be totally honest. Their plans for the police and STEM for example. BLM as a movement is a net positive for the world right now but I don't believe they should be seen as untouchable or uncritiquable.
When a movements name is an anti-racist slogan that every decent person agrees with there is a danger of a kind of Trojan horse effect. "You don't agree with BLM on a particular issue, are you a racist??" BLM does not know how to run a country so they can't be seen as an unquestionable authority.
Perhaps the PL could have done something with some of their own BAME groups such as Kick It Out or made a sort of solidarity tribute as opposed to explicitly lending support to BLM. That's my only real critique on this. If you need to argue with it please do so in good faith.
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In my country, Minorities are being persecuted, police brutality and human rights violations are at an all time high (at least in a generation). I wish BLM as a message could be expandable to other such instances as well. It is encouraging to see at least the step taken by clubs and PL as a whole is in the right direction. But for complete inclusivity, some communities just have to wait for another such movement.
Is it only black people protesting? Your posts are usually trying to get people to think critically (or outside of the box)...
Not sure this is one your best.... Feels more reactive, and all over the place.
Anyway, Good move from the premiership.
Or try to start one... Don't you think now is a good time for that?
The answer is a bit political so wouldn’t get into that. The cynic in me thinks that the incident has only led to this movement because it happened in the US and not in a third world country. Protests have already been crushed in my country by the joint efforts of Covid and the authorities.
My point is that I completely support BLM movement, but the line ‘Black lives matter’ is something I wish to be more applicable to repressed minorities around the world.
Black Lives Matter as an organization has been around in the US for 8 years. It was initially formed in the wake of Trayvon Martin's murder and came to the forefront again in Ferguson, Missouri when Michael Brown was killed by police. Their goals as an organization have been primarily focused on the systemic racism that exists here, but it has, more recently, grown outside the US borders - which is fantastic. I think there were marches in 19 countries maybe? I hope it continues.
I understand, but BLM isn't exclusive, it may read that way to some, and some will push that narrative too.
The majority of the people that are promoting the BLM movement, will be empathic to and promoting other movements too. A lot of the discourse over here (UK) is BAME related which refers to all minorities, it doesn't just stop at black people.
I feel like other minorities shouldn't look at BLM as 'this is their thing" moreso it should inspire them to do similar and try to get global recognition for their own issues. Also being a BLM activist doesn't preclude someone from promoting other causes, the same way you're seeing people of all colours promoting BLM.
Care to give a bit of info on the issues you're referring to?
A great illustration I saw on why "All Lives Matter" is a little offensive/dismissive:
"Imagine that you're sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don't get any. So you say "I should get my fair share." And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, "everyone should get their fair share." Now, that's a wonderful sentiment -- indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad's smart-ass comment just dismissed you and didn't solve the problem that you still haven't gotten any!
The problem is that the statement "I should get my fair share" had an implicit "too" at the end: "I should get my fair share, too, just like everyone else." But your dad's response treated your statement as though you meant "only I should get my fair share", which clearly was not your intention. As a result, his statement that "everyone should get their fair share," while true, only served to ignore the problem you were trying to point out"
"Imagine that you're sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don't get any. So you say "I should get my fair share." And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, "everyone should get their fair share." Now, that's a wonderful sentiment -- indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad's smart-ass comment just dismissed you and didn't solve the problem that you still haven't gotten any!
The problem is that the statement "I should get my fair share" had an implicit "too" at the end: "I should get my fair share, too, just like everyone else." But your dad's response treated your statement as though you meant "only I should get my fair share", which clearly was not your intention. As a result, his statement that "everyone should get their fair share," while true, only served to ignore the problem you were trying to point out"
I still can’t believe how little shit they got/get for it. It should definitely be pointed out now.
Loving the threadmarks
you see it all the time.
their marketing depts. are foaming at the mouth when they see ‘trends’ like Support The NHS and Black Lives.
the benefits outweigh the negatives looking holistically.
Is that a surprise? Without getting too political and taking thiss off topic, look at who the leaders of USA and UK are, and look at all the statements that theyve made and still got into power.
That was basically a free pass for closet racists to say what was on their mind all this time.
I like the sentiment, I just think they should do something else. Black armbands, or put black lives matter on the advertising boards, etc. Changing the players names on their shirts for 12 games seems a bit weird.
Good. Those violently objecting should have this shoved right in their faces.
It's weirdness is what makes it so eye-catching. A good thing.
I agree with this. Probably be called a racist for saying that...
Of course. Nobody disagrees with that.
But when Jewish people were saying 'antisemitism is bad' in 1940, it was a forgivable statement which didn't need to be countered with 'all racism is bad'.
Sometimes a tighter focus needs to be applied to an issue as a matter of urgency, in order to solve its wider implications for the future. That's all BLM is doing.
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Sure. An example of this would be the comments made by Mesut Ozil on the treatment of Uighar Muslims in China. Not only was that dismissed as an individual comments, Arsenal too distanced themselves from the issue.
In India, a controversial bill called CAA led to nation-wide protests most of which were led by students. This bill is allegedly anti-Muslim (minority in India). This was also followed by elections in Delhi, where the ruling party who brought the bill lost by a huge margin. Immediately post the elections, the leaders of the ruling party threatened violence against protesters which was followed by riots in the city which led to the death of ~60 people (maximum were Muslim). This was during February. A moving visual from the riots, which can be compared with in parallel with the George Floyd scenario, was the police brutally beating 4 Muslim men while they're lying on the ground and forcing them to sing the national anthem. One of them died.
The media in India is completely the mouthpiece of the ruling party and does little to provide a balanced point of view though international publications like the Times have covered the issue. Covid did lead to an end to the public protests and the ruling party has meanwhile made several arrests for the riots, almost all of them were the protesters including a shocking amount of students who had nothing to do with the actual riots. No charges have been filed on the policemen mentioned above.
When I first read about the George Floyd situation, it immediately reminded me of the situation in India. However, the support that BLM has gathered makes me wish that the movement can be made more inclusive towards countries where the situation isn't even captured. Countries like China, Hong Kong, India and many more where the protesters are crushed early on so their protest doesn't become a movement.
And that is why I feel 'BLM' is a very encouraging first step for the systematic racism in the Western world. But there is a huge section of the world who are just waiting for some ray of hope or a movement which is focuses on their problem as well. And that is why like I previously said, I wish the main slogan 'Black Lives Matter' was something which can be directly associated with the injustices minorities face in other parts of the world. And hence, when PL takes a stand, BLM is too narrow a window to address their actual reach. The ‘Kick It Out’ was actually more specific for the cause.
P.S.: I'm not part of the minority community in any of the countries mentioned
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I think personally that others should create separate movements and those should collaborate with BLM rather than BLM attempting to take on everything. Otherwise you lose focus on specific goals you are trying to achieve. BLM has specific objectives and was set up for specific reasons.
It has however opened the platform for others to do the same and I hope they do.
And the minorities everywhere thank you for sharing the harsh truth. So, according to you, black people want equality but would want other repressed minorities to stay away from their movement?
When global platforms like the PL decide to take a stand, you would wish that it would be for a wider audience and a message of equality for all races, religions and communities and not one and only one section.
All I know is I’m definitely having a tenner on Black Lives Matter to score first.
No that is not what I said.I specifically said they should collaborate just 5 words after what you bolded...
I said and I will repeat that BLM what setup with specific goals one main goal to fight police brutality in the US and achieve justice for the victims.
Please don't put words in my mouth, as I said collaboration is also welcome, but you can't put solving all the world problems on one movement, others also need to standup and take responsibility in the fight.
Regarding the PL did you complain when they took a stand against homophobia? Why didn't they just say equality for all?
To tackle issues you need targeted campaigns is what I am saying, simply saying equality for all as a message doesn't end up achieving much because the actual specific problems that need tackling become lost in the campaign
Regarding global platforms, personally I think they should be taking a stand on all types of issues, not just when there is political and social pressure to do so. However its good that they do take some action.
It's hilarious how outraged the gammonfolk are getting with this movement. I'm glad the PL is endorsing this message, whilst the likes of Tommy Robinson and his fellow gammlets are left furiously screaming into their smartphones.
I sympathize with that, I don't like to see the way that some Muslims are treated (and the apparent acceptance of it).
I don't have much more to add to what @Cassidy has said as I agree with his recent posts and that's where I stand too.
Redcafe’s worst post in June winner.
Fully behind blm and have been for decades before this shite blew up but ffs... op: feck off
Homophobia is targeted towards homophobic sentiments all over the world. However, BLM, like you say, is extremely specific to police brutality in the US.
Which is why I feel that rather than BLM, a message which was more inclusive to people all over the world might've been more suitable. A message which is anti-racism at every level in every country for every community.
Maybe that is just wishful thinking from my end.
Homophobia doesn't tackle issues around bi sexuality, gender neutrality, and other sexual orientation and identity groups. It was a specific targeted campaign against homophobia and it wasn't global it was a UK campaign at the time. Nothing wrong with that, they wanted to tackle homophobic sentiment in the premier league (only 2? male PL players I believe have come out about being in a same sex relationship and one was after he retired? We know what happened to the other) Specific problem which needed and still needs addressing.
It would be nice if there was a global campaign which is inclusive, no one is stopping anyone from starting one. I would fully support it, and I would also fully supported a targeted campaigns against anti muslim sentiment that has grown in the UK and other places too. Reason being campaigns ultimately in the end need to be about forcing change and the more targeted a campaign is the more chance there is for success of forcing change or achieving a goal.
I'm in your camp in that we need to highlight all types of issues, I just think we disagree on the method. Im not an advocate of one campaign., I think we need many campaigns.
Yep, and what better way to do it than the sport that they love is going to plaster it in their face!
Whats wrong with them? I don’t get how supporting BLM makes any difference to people? Oh no they’re supporting a good cause, those evil bastards.
They're not doing just that, a lot of the people who support the movement simply dismiss the issues related to others races. It's bringing focus which is good and needed but at the same it's creating a form of separation.
I haven't really seen a lot of that to be fair... What are you basing this on?