BLM in the Prem

[DoomSlayer]

I don't have any problem with the idea, but they should keep the names of the players on the shirts, in my opinion.

I do agree that as a global entity, the PL can use its' platform to make a stance on many important injustices, that occur around the world.

 

[roseguy64]

I agree with you in your opposition to the BLM movement. While I oppose racism, there's a number of problems with BLM, its supporters and the narratives they seek to promote.

What are these?

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

I've seen that. The replies are filled with people talking about BLM being an extremist, anarchist group because of one obscure GoFundMe page and people getting rid of statues of racists.

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Its hilarious how these cnuts tweet their outrage at this and say their done with the club and threaten to cancel their season ticket like it’s gonna make a difference. Oh billy bigots gonna boycott the club we better scrap this whole thing, nah more like good riddance you fecking cretins!

 

[Berbasbullet]

Black people are not the only minority in the world. The idea of having a section of specific ethnic group players in a fecking club museum is a bit ridiculous, no? It just creates more separation if anything.


Completely missed my point. My point is, why specifically black players section? How about other minorities then? It's not like black people are cut out of pictures now is it?

I didn’t miss your point, I completely understand it, and I think it’s such a ridiculous argument that you think you’re somehow offending other minorities by celebrating the black players that have played for united.

 

[Cassidy]

I wonder how black PL players feel about the opposition to this, would hate to be in their position knowing fans would gladly stop supporting the club you play for just because they choose to support a campaign for people who looked like you.

 

[dove]

If the majority of footballers that have played for the club are white then why would that need to be highlighted? It's a given. Highlighting black players or Welsh or Scottish players is perfectly fine. It's just recognising the contribution a minority group has made to the club.

Who said it could only be black players that are highlighted? This is exactly the ignorance people have with BLM. One group asking for equality does not mean exclusivity. Affirmative action/Rooney rule is not racist. The fact it's needed is racist. Once it's so commonplace that it's no longer needed is the goal.

I didn’t miss your point, I completely understand it, and I think it’s such a ridiculous argument that you think you’re somehow offending other minorities by celebrating the black players that have played for united.

But where do you stop? There will always be some group that will be unhappy to not have their own section especially nowadays that people get so easily upset and offended... It would simply open a can of worms and IMO it's a terrible idea. It's just me I guess.

 

[Olly Gunnar Solskjær]

I wonder how black PL players feel about the opposition to this, would hate to be in their position knowing fans would gladly stop supporting the club you play for just because they choose to support a campaign for people who looked like you.

They must feel fecking awful.

What the last two weeks or so have taught me, is that if I was black I would be walking around in a constant state of depression.

 

[Cassidy]

But where do you stop? There will always be some group that will be unhappy to not have their own section especially nowadays that people get so easily upset and offended... It would simply open a can of worms and IMO it's a terrible idea. It's just me I guess.

Why do you need to stop?

 

[van der star]

But where do you stop? There will always be some group that will be unhappy to not have their own section especially nowadays that people get so easily upset and offended... It would simply open a can of worms and IMO it's a terrible idea. It's just me I guess.

But what exactly do you expect to happen in societies where majority of population is white? Is "black privilege" not a thing in African countries? I am genuinely curious about it.

There are lots of people pretending to be victims of "police brutality". Believe it or not I couldn't care less.

Basically everyone who disagrees with something is a racist or something else nowadays. I was called a fascist because I said that most people who have the cops use force against them deserve it because they act stupid. But apparently I was "defending fascist police tactics". I was called a racist because I said it's a bit ironic that the main face of the protests against police brutality is a criminal. And don't you even dare to say stuff like "All lives matter", it's apparently extremely racist. Society is fecked and the current events just proved that once again.

I see you're bringing your charade from the CE to the football forum now.

 

[Cassidy]

They must feel fecking awful.

What the last two weeks or so have taught me, is that if I was black I would be walking around in a constant state of depression.

Many do, but thats a separate topic all together.

 

[Berbasbullet]

But where do you stop? There will always be some group that will be unhappy to not have their own section especially nowadays that people get so easily upset and offended... It would simply open a can of worms and IMO it's a terrible idea. It's just me I guess.

Who are these people getting easily upset and offended?

The ones crying about a statue being pulled down or is this a different group?

 

[Moz]

What are these?

Its a neo-Marxist movement whose supporters have used violence and the destruction of property. See their manifesto and numerous articles and videos about them on the web.

 

[dove]

I see you're bringing your charade from the CE to the football forum now.

Feel free to ignore me you idiot.

 

[van der star]

Feel free to ignore me you idiot.

And miss out on the chance to call you out on your horribly regressive views? No chance

 

[dove]

And miss out on the chance to call you out on your horribly regressive views? No chance

But aren't you wasting your time? You could have used this minute you wasted on me by doing something more productive like shitting on cops.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I don't view BLM that way, sorry if I was unclear. I view BLM as a racist movement. I am very troubled by it and how it is catching on. It is sad.

Hey, I’ll give you a pass if English isn’t your second language, or you’ve written wrong twice...

But you might want to correct the last two posts mate.

 

[van der star]

But aren't you wasting your time? You could have used this minute you wasted on me by doing something more productive like shitting on cops.

No, I'd rather call you out instead. I haven't once talked about anything remotely as ridiculous as "shitting on cops", so try again.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

TBF to them, they have like less than 20 employees and just enough funding. Not enough they can do without more support/more competent people.

It’s a pointless entity. I applaud their intent. But they are so visible, for zero impact. It’s either incompetence or deliberate.

 

[Hephaestus]

How will someone taking a knee during matches work?

Someone scores a goal and instead their usual celebration, they take a knee.

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[Cassidy]

It’s a pointless entity. I applaud their intent. But they are so visible, for zero impact. It’s either incompetence or deliberate.

Thats not true.
However on a large scale they are ineffective but that more to do with lack of funding and more importantly how they are funded.

 

[2 man midfield]

They are funded by the FA and so have their hands tied quite a bit.

I don’t know if that should let them off the hook though, right is right and wrong is wrong. Otherwise it just sends the wrong message. ‘We oppose racism in all forms, unless we have to tread on the toes of an organisation that gives us money.’

Maybe I don’t know enough about the dynamics of it, I just remember reading it and feeling really pissed off for Rio. All he wanted them to do was make an appearance, and they couldn’t even do that. I could totally see why he thought Kick it out was just lip service, and why he couldn’t be arsed to wear their shirt after it.

What actually needs to be done is greater access to minorities regarding coaching and administration jobs. Additionally, harsher punishments for racism. Otherwise, it's just for PR. An episode of Guardian Football Weekly this past week highlighted the racist incidents since England-Bulgaria and the paltry punishments handed out.

Additionally, there's a lack of diversity in football broadcasting. Too much lack of opportunity. Once the various authorities put effort into expanding their net of hiring as well as facilitating minorities getting the required accreditation then they'll be putting their money where their mouth is. Action matters, not gestures/words.

Well yeah, that’s the end goal. But that isn’t going to happen without raising awareness, so it’s a start. Just as long as something actually follows these protests, and it isn’t all forgotten about by next month.

 

[roseguy64]

Its a neo-Marxist movement whose supporters have used violence and the destruction of property. See their manifesto and numerous articles and videos about them on the web.

No thanks. I'd rather focus on the majority not a subset.

The goals of BLM globally are equality, better policing, dismantling systemic racism, erasing monuments built to honour racists and anti-racism.

Anything else you see is you looking for outliers to feel better about yourself that your agenda is right. The vast majority of violence I've seen has been against peaceful protesters. Most of the actions BLM supporters have done has been petitions, raising awareness on media/social media and peaceful protests.

 

[roseguy64]

It’s a pointless entity. I applaud their intent. But they are so visible, for zero impact. It’s either incompetence or deliberate.

It's pointless only because they're a token organisation. To actually be effective they need better staff, more staff and more funds for campaigning. It's a non-profit funded by the people they're supposed to be holding accountable.

 

[roseguy64]

Well yeah, that’s the end goal. But that isn’t going to happen without raising awareness, so it’s a start. Just as long as something actually follows these protests, and it isn’t all forgotten about by next month.

Agreed

 

[Cassidy]

I don’t know if that should let them off the hook though, right is right and wrong is wrong. Otherwise it just sends the wrong message. ‘We oppose racism in all forms, unless we have to tread on the toes of an organisation that gives us money.’

Maybe I don’t know enough about the dynamics of it, I just remember reading it and feeling really pissed off for Rio. All he wanted them to do was make an appearance, and they couldn’t even do that. I could totally see why he thought Kick it out was just lip service, and why he couldn’t be arsed to wear their shirt after it.

Yes that was a massive let down, the funding thing is an issue since the FA were determined to support Terry in this case as England captain.
They do a lot of good work behind the scenes especially with young minority players. However I do think they should be disbanded and a new independent organisation is formed. One independent of the FA

 

[stevoc]

Someone scores a goal and instead their usual celebration, they take a knee.

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Fair enough thats one way of doing it i suppose.

 

[starman]

They should have stuck with a on point anti racism stance. As meek as kick it out has been I would rather see millions poured into that or something fresh. BLM is political and has very toxic elements about it

 

[riis]

Step in the right direction.

 

[kouroux]

You have to recognise that the black American experience is different. They're also getting racism from other minorities.

Never denied it, I've been racially abused as a black man in Europe (nasty stuff in France tbh) but I never use as a way to say my pain is above others. It's a fecked up way of looking at things IMHO. Fighting against discrimination and injustice concerns everyone, victims of it and others. The PL is just using this as a PR move, that's all it is to them.

 

[fps]

But where do you stop? There will always be some group that will be unhappy to not have their own section especially nowadays that people get so easily upset and offended... It would simply open a can of worms and IMO it's a terrible idea. It's just me I guess.

You stop when as close as possible everyone feels happy that they can live their lives free of discrimination simply for being themselves. You certainly don't stop with where the world is now. The argument that, because there are so many things wrong, we shouldn't try and fix something that's wrong, doesn't hold water.

People don't have a go at Cancer Research UK for not doing enough work on Alzheimer's.

 

[Irrational.]

I've seen that. The replies are filled with people talking about BLM being an extremist, anarchist group because of one obscure GoFundMe page and people getting rid of statues of racists.

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Good riddance. The fewer of these thick, ignorant, uneducated bellends we have following the game the better it will be for the sport. I think there's a strong correlation between football hooligans and bigoted, throwing-their-toys-out-of-the-pram, screeching banshee gammonfolk.

I can never tell if people are trolling or are just thicker than pigshit.

Sadly, thesedays the you have to assume the latter until proven otherwise.

 

[Caius]

You have to recognise that the black American experience is different. They're also getting racism from other minorities.

This is very true - I have worked with inmates in a county jail system, and nearly every complaint by an inmate re racism was from a black inmate, while the accused officers would range from white to Hispanic to Asian. From what I have researched, even amongst other minorities in America, black Americans are uniquely disadvantaged (being fair, Native Americans have had comparable historic violence done to them as well). That disadvantage is well captured by the stunning fact that a college educated black woman has a higher risk of maternal or infant mortality than a white woman without a degree. No other racial group is quite so disparately impacted (again, except perhaps Native Americans).

This is certainly not to say that discrimination and racism isn't a problem for other groups of people, but just to highlight that there are distinct historical and current aspects of the black American experience of racism that explain why a movement specifically dealing with those issues has gained such prominence.

 

[Cassidy]

You have to recognise that the black American experience is different. They're also getting racism from other minorities.

That is not specific to the US...

 

[facund]

Would much rather see it replace the sponsors and manufacturers on the shirts, would be a far more meaningful stance if the league & clubs were to show willingness to jeopardize revenue to achieve it (I think public opinion would force sponsors to agree). Probably not a logistical reality at this point.

The cynic in me winces with the thought of a shirt, manufactured via economic exploitation of the down trodden, trumpeting awareness of the down trodden. Sometimes though, we have to be thankful for small net gains and raising awareness of racism and it's implications is a worthy cause.

Is this a one and done kind of deal or is it the PL accepting that they can and should be be proactive advocates for social change?
The PL has the global audience to raise awareness of all kinds of injustice, many occurring in countries and regions that they are heavily broadcast in.

 

[Gibb11]

Maybe because they are a minority?
If you had a museum of United players they would mainly be white no? So having a section to show non white players (it doesn't have to be just black but probably mainly will be) would help.
Its not about deserving a dedicated section, and why would it be racist? Who would it be racist against? The majority white players who would mainly fill the rest of the museum?

Choosing to highlight something which may otherwise be missed is not racist.

Half of our team are not white players now, this will not age well in the united museum in 10/20/30 years. Your literally separating (no matter your good intentions) skin colours... maybe just maybe a non-white player would feel patronized by this suggestion.

 

[MackRobinson]

Whoever is doing these threadmarks is my hero

 

[Withnail]

Whoever is doing these threadmarks is my hero

They had me in stitches

 

[Cassidy]

Half of our team are not white players now, this will not age well in the united museum in 10/20/30 years. Your literally separating (no matter your good intentions) skin colours... maybe just maybe a non-white player would feel patronized by this suggestion.

But we were talking about something they could do now not in 10 years... Maybe some would feel patronized I don't know. My point was really to question how doing something like that would be racist, which I am still yet to see by the way.
There are plenty of initiatives that recognize the achievements of minority groups, and I wouldn't call them racist myself.
In fact, football actually has an awards every year dedicated to black people working in the industry called the blacklist.

 

[jojojo]

When I saw the PL announcement, I thought, "good - it makes a clears stand, and it takes the pressure off the black players to do it all themselves."

Now I've seen the pack of racist hyenas on twitter and elsewhere who tell me they're quitting watching football because football shouldn't be political - and it sounds like I underestimated the power of the PL and of the simple strength of the "black lives matter" slogan. Turns out it's not just good, it's fecking great, and if it really means that some of the racist scum who claim to support football will bugger off, then it's even better.

 

[lolok]

"

Untd55 said:
The one thing I have against this is that the movement has been pretty violent. Six police (including two black people) have been killed, quite a few people have been beaten terribly, and a lot of people's livelihoods have been destroyed. I am not a supporter of ruining innocent people's lives. All lives matter.

If you say all lives matter, you INCLUDE black people and if black people said that that would imply they feel left out. When you say the opposite, and exclude - where do people think it will go to in years to come? Do you think humanity, won't be as dumb as it presently is? Do people really believe, it would just level the playing field? Really? At the end of the day, the premiership don't have to say anything. Why? Because the premiership has plenty of black players in it. Racism will happen at games, and sexism and all that crap but those people are in a heightened sense of euphoria or excitement or agitation. You can be for black people......and against BLM. Personally I don't care because if you invest in everything else, you will never have time for you......or to develop your own ideas based your own experience. I don't believe I said anything offensive here but of course some people will take offense

As people, big corps and interests fight over your attention and what you should think. The idea 'all lives matter' is offensive shows the nature of the beast. Because it excludes NO ONE and can create conversation. When you exclude groups or people and when you see what's going on in America with certain key words......then it's an agenda and one that will not stabilise anything but cause problems in the future because there is evil in ALL races....and good causes can be created and will usually be infiltrated by opportunists with the wrong spirit. So we should look at ourselves more....and learn to listen to our own conscience because some people have one and know right from wrong. These things can in effect, act as shell companies.

You had a lot of companies putting out the BLM message recently and it's like those spam emails you get from time to time. 'We miss you. Come back'. It's all bull. You have to get to the root of the problem. These act as just gimmicks and will change nothing. Anyone thats suffered racism i've empathy for but a lot of good people suffer from the ignorance of others. But it stems from somewhere. As people yes we should JOIN together....but you don't join together creating groups that exclude.....I saw a video recently of a black girl standing up in some room with white people in it and saying...basically she felt uncomfortable about the number of white people their and it was for people of colour. She sounded pretty calm to me but was applauded after for saying it. I'm not seeing how any of this is uniting people. You tell people the truth. You educate people. You engage a conversation. Not really seeing that.

I just wanted to say that I agree with the previous posters.

I just want to point out something from an American perspective and what has gone on over here in the USA. I can't say to know anything about the culture and racism that goes on in the UK or the rest of Europe. I dare not speak about it, because I have not lived there and experienced it first hand.

I support ALL Lives. I do not care if you are Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, etc. ALL LIVES MATTER. Unfortunately the BLM is a political group that truly doesn't care about Black Lives. Their only goal is to create divisiveness and push their left leaning philosophies. What you may not know is that all donations to BLM are funneled through ActBlue a left wing group that basically uses the money to give to Politicians. The money for the most part doesn't go to help black communities. Some does of course, but 100% should go to these communities, not politicians.

I disagree with the political arm of BLM, because they don't care about black on black murders. I think some 20,000 black people have been murdered by other black people int he past 4 years. Every weekend in the cities of Chicago and Baltimore, you will see 3 or 4 more black people murdered. BLM doesn't care about these people, because it doesn't fit their narrative that the USA is a systematically racist Country. This is total BS. If they truly cared about "All Black Lives" then they would be speaking out against this black on black violence!!!!!!! Secondly, the USA may have some racists, but it is not systematically racist. What you don't know is the left constantly likes to push this narrative that the USA is racist because White people make more money than Blacks or Hispanics. Anyone feel like a group is missing from this survey? Bueller? Bueller? Yes-- Asians.

It is a dirty little secret that the left tries to hide, which is that Asians--- Chinese American, Japanese American, Indian American are the most successful groups in the Nation. This blows up the entire narrative that the US is rigged in favor of whites. The funny thing is that because Asians have done so well- many people like to refer them as white. /facepalm. I kid you not-- it is the saddest most pathetic thing ever. Because Asians have destroyed the narrative that the USA is systematically racist-- some people in such denial with their mental illness like to claim Asians are white. Give me a break people. These groups have all seen their fair share of discrimination-- including Japanese Americans who were put into concentration camps during WWII. Then the left likes to change the narrative to-- well-- they aren't black and slavery.

Well-- here is another dirty little secret that no one likes to hear. Nigerian Americans are one of the most successful immigrant groups in the USA. 11% of the US population gets advanced educational degrees. (Graduate degrees.) 29% of Nigerian American's get their advanced degrees. Nigerian American's also make way more than the average white person in the USA. They can't let this information out, because it destroys their narrative that black people are oppressed.

The problem in the USA is that REGARDLESS OF WHAT RACE you are, if you live in a single family household-- you have hte odds stacked against you. If you are Asian, BLack or Hispanic and grow up a 2 parent household, you are 5 times less likely to live in poverty compared to a white kid raised by a single white mom. If you are a minority that grows up in a 2 parent household, you make more money and are less likely to end up in jail compared to a white kid who grows up in a 1 parent household. The black community sees the highest rate of single parents, the Asian (and Nigerian) community see the lowest. So it's no surprise that Asians and Nigerian American communities are the most successful with the least amount of crime. But the left isn't the party of family values. They spent the 60's and 70's trying to destroy the 2 parent household, and unfortunately for many kids-- regardless of race-- it has put them in a bad spot. I'm sure many of you on here were raised in 1 parent households, and you know first hand the difficulties that that brought you.

These are the facts. The USA has problems for sure. It isn't a white privilege problem, but a 2 parent privilege problem. I strongly stand against racism. I strongly stand against police abuse. The solution to the latter problem is abolishing Police Unions which protect these dirty cops is the first step (of many) that they should take to improve the police force. But I stand against the Political Wing of BLM. For a week, the left leaning terrorist group Antifa, went into Black Communities and destroyed them. If you really cared about the black community-- you don't go into their neighborhoods and destroy, loot and burn down businesses. It's ridiculous. The fact that BLM wasn't outraged against this behavior tells you everything you need to know. It's about politics, not black lives.



I would like to see the EPL come out and push the No to Racism of any kind. Actions speak louder than words. Donate money, food and time to these communities so they can better themselves. A huge problem I see working with kids in an afternoon program is that many live in an area where the school system is terrible and they can't get a good education. ALmost all are from 1 parent households (white and black,) and some do not get enough to eat, as their parents waste their WIC money. (Money from govn designed to feed kids.) The most important thing that needs to happen, is to break the cycle of single parenthood. So many black kids here in the USA grow up without a father. Donating money isn't going to solve this problem, posting a black square isn't going to solve this problem. Even though I disagree alot with LeBron James politically-- the one absolutely great thing he does is that he talks about wanting to be a great father, because he didn't have a father growing up. This is the most important message that needs to be spread across all communities. LeBron wants to be loved by all. He is like a politician and is very calculated in how he speaks. The problem is that since he is Black, he has to be a Democrat and push the left's agenda, even though it's this agenda that has harmed black people the most.

But since the left in the USA isn't the party of family values-- they would be outraged if Lebron's main platform was 2 parent households. The left spent the 60's and 70's trying to destroy the 2 parent household.. Lebron could literally go down in the USA as a great humanitarian if he pushed this agenda, and over the next few decades, the black community started to see major declines in 1 parent households. It would be tremendous and it would be the most productive thing to benefit the black community in a long, long time. Not only black communities-- but every community bc single parenthood is a huge problem.



Sorry- but talking about BLM-- Racism and the problems in the USA can't be summarized in 4 sentences. Before any leftist gets angry at me, remember. All LIves Matter. I stand against Racism of any kind. We can agree to disagree on political parties, but we all agree that All LIves matter and Racism is wrong.