Yeah I agree 100%. Let Henderson out for another season and then he can come back and compete with De Gea. He’s 23 ffs. He has plenty of time to get into a United team yet. Again, you’d think De Gea is showing Barthez levels of incompetence and he’s really not.
Dean Henderson signed new contract | Loaned out to Sheffield United
- Thread starter roonster09
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He has made the 3rd most errors in the league this season and cost us CL last season.. He is that ropey.. Henderson on the other hand has some of the safest pair around.
He didn’t cost us the CL last season. We had Brighton and Huddersfield to beat to get top 4 and we lost to both. So stop blaming him for the CL qualification. He has same amount of mistakes as Ederson and one more than Leno. Mistakes don’t tell the whole story. He cost us a goal in the Everton game but he almost certainly saved us from getting beat as he made at least 2 saves where most of pl keepers wouldn’t usually.
De Gea has been pretty mediocre this season but no more so than the likes of Ederson and the current England #1 (among others). Last season was a lot worse I think, going from mediocre to outright terrible when his form collapsed near the end of the season. I don't think his form has been as bad as that at any point this season. And of course the season before last he was brilliant, as he had been for most of the decade.
Against that, Henderson has had one very good season for a smaller club. Certainly better than De Gea's last two seasons, certainly not as good as those before it. But as we saw with Howard and Foster, even goalkeepers who are capable of having long PL careers will still ultimately be unable to hack it here. It may well be that Henderson is capable of making the step up, or it may be he isn't. If we didn't already own him though there's not a chance we'd be arguing for him to replace De Gea based on that one very good season at Sheffield United. Another season on loan is the best move, I think.
Incidentally, De Gea's distribution has also been a lot better than Henderson's this season, at least statistically. 71% successful passes versus 36%. Obviously the two teams play in a very different way but then that's one example of the different demands and scrutiny that would be placed on Henderson were he Manchester United's goalkeeper.
Against that, Henderson has had one very good season for a smaller club. Certainly better than De Gea's last two seasons, certainly not as good as those before it. But as we saw with Howard and Foster, even goalkeepers who are capable of having long PL careers will still ultimately be unable to hack it here. It may well be that Henderson is capable of making the step up, or it may be he isn't. If we didn't already own him though there's not a chance we'd be arguing for him to replace De Gea based on that one very good season at Sheffield United. Another season on loan is the best move, I think.
Incidentally, De Gea's distribution has also been a lot better than Henderson's this season, at least statistically. 71% successful passes versus 36%. Obviously the two teams play in a very different way but then that's one example of the different demands and scrutiny that would be placed on Henderson were he Manchester United's goalkeeper.
I know you got the stats from whoscored, but that is hard to believe when Henderson has by far more accurate long balls and less throw outs, going by the PL statistics (unless they are rubbish and inaccurate).
Actually I got them from a fantasy football website that uses OPTA stats. Though beyond that I have no idea how it breaks down.
We had Brighton and Huddersfield to beat because De Gea cost us against Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton and a few others I can’t even remember right now.
It was a team effort, including the manager who cost us the CL not just De Gea. Games you mentioned - we looked woeful in them.
At Everton we got embarrassed and it hardly De Gea’s fault.
I think Utd will have to make a big decision, if not this summer then certainly next. Henderson will be one of the best goalies in the world and wont stay on loan after next season. Will he be sold or De Gea? Thats the impossible decision Ole/next manager will have a nightmare with.
It is a team game that is decided by goals. Even if we do not play well, we don’t win or lose points for that. Against Arsenal we went into it on great form, so the team was playing very well. Then Xhaka hits a shot from nearly 40 yards that goes into the middle of the goal with the keeper not moving, which was where it all started.
We had a winner takes all game against Chelsea, we were playing no worse than them, and again, De Gea doesn’t give us a chance. It’s easy to say we got embarrassed at Everton but again, when you are behind in no time to a cheap goal you are up against it - and in the run-in, we were put into that situation too often. Having to fight a -1 handicap where we needed points desperately.
The mistakes this season were ridiculous too. Yes, he’s made saves. He’s supposed to. It isn’t like he saves every shot, we concede goals too - he’s supposed to. But stupidness that tips even games like away at Watford is happening too often. I’ve personally had enough.
The team had 45 minutes to beat Chelsea last season, it's not like it was a last minute mistake from De Gea that cost us the game
What about the other 10 players who didn't manage to score more than one goal against a team that wasn't even playing for their manager at that point?
And they had 45 minutes to beat us. I don’t get this logic. Can’t blame people for mistakes in a match as long as they come in the first half?
Games are tough. Chelsea are a tough team. The players have no obligation to say we must win games regardless of the handicap. Perhaps we would get a result if our keeper doesn’t feck up.
By this logic, Karius isn’t to blame for the loss against Real - it’s Liverpool’s strikers as they saw this mistake and still refused to score enough goals to win in spite of it.
He’s played 3/4 of a season in PL. relax a little .
So you think Henderson is going to be happy going on loan for the next 4 years until De Geas contract runs out or is it something else you are laughing at. Can you enlighten me?
Where did you get 4 years from ? Why do you keep making shit up ?
I think there is a good chance that we will lose him. If Henderson does well next season, he will likely become England number one and will be attracting more interest from big clubs.
He will not want to be on loan forever and he will not want to come here as the second choice. Henderson would not want to put his England number one status at risk.
He will not want to be on loan forever and he will not want to come here as the second choice. Henderson would not want to put his England number one status at risk.
Going by some of the posts, the lack of loyalty that De Gea gets from fans is absolutely shocking. The same fans who are willing to give more time to Ole (and even feckin Lingard), are blaming De Gea for single handedly making us lose the CL spot last season. When he was performing miracles in the same season (Spurs away), it shouldn't be counted because that's his job but if he makes mistakes or for once is out of form, he should be binned. Absolutely disgraceful.
Henderson himself has made blunders against Liverpool and Chelsea. Blunders which would live long in the memory if he were the Manchester United keeper. I absolutely can see Henderson becoming United's keeper in the future but for us to decide on replacing De Gea with him, he would have to show De Gea like performances first. As things stand, it's not even close.
Henderson himself has made blunders against Liverpool and Chelsea. Blunders which would live long in the memory if he were the Manchester United keeper. I absolutely can see Henderson becoming United's keeper in the future but for us to decide on replacing De Gea with him, he would have to show De Gea like performances first. As things stand, it's not even close.
While I agree with a lot of your post, I don’t blame Henderson either goal at Chelsea, was down to horrific defensive mistakes. The Liverpool one is fair enough.
Leave him where he is next season - it's superb experience - another whole season in the Premier league!
The the next season bring him back to as a minimum do what Romero does.
The the next season bring him back to as a minimum do what Romero does.
There's two things going on with players at other teams.
Firstly, we generally don't watch them as often, so have only a biased opinion on them, and secondly playing for United is a totally different experience to playing for lesser teams.
We've seen it many a time with say a Schneiderlin. People thought he was brilliant, and some sort of answer for our midfield problems, then when he came here looked super limited.
I think Wilder himself spoke about that Chelsea mistake in the post match. Please also consider that the fans in questions are turning on De Gea, do you think such borderline mistakes would be acceptable to them?
I’m sure that was after Liverpool at home not Chelsea away. And I disagree with the comments about de Gea because he has bailed you out more than he’s made mistakes but I can see why some would question it with his age whereas Henderson is young and has time to learn. Personally I think you’d be mad to let him go.
I'm a United fan, not a de Gea fan. I'm loyal to the club, not him. It's harsh to bin a player for one or two mistakes, but we're talking about a series of mistakes in every other matches last season. Statistically, he has made the most errors leading to goals in the league since the start of last season. So what's the problem of dropping or replacing a player who keeps making mistakes and is out of form?
Plus, what do you mean by de Gea-like performances? The way he has given goals away in the past two years? Conceding goals from the near post? You can argue there's less pressure playing for Sheffield, but Henderson has already outperformed de Gea in many aspects. This season Sheffield have an xGa of 37.9 and they've conceded 25, while we have an xGa of 30.6 and we've conceded 30. Judging from these two years, "it's not even close".
The problem of many United fans is that they are always emotionally attached to their beloved players and are living in the past. Their impression towards the players remains in their peak and they find it hard to accept that their beloved players are declining. The current de Gea is no longer the POTY-winning de Gea who always saves the day. The same also applies to Rooney, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra etc.
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Jesus. Talk about an overreaction. I think de Gea is owed a little loyalty from the club personally. He's given us the bulk of his prime years when he could have thrown a strop and forced himself out to Madrid. And now a couple of mistakes and lets bin him for the shiny new toy? I'd love Henderson to be the United number 1 in the future too, but its way too early next season. What I'd like to see is how de Gea performs next season (hopefully ending in getting us into the CL), and then playing solely in the CL and cups for a couple of years while we play Henderson in the league. No reason to not have a couple of years overlap between the two. Ter Stegen and Bravo rotated for a while IIRC and Buffon and Szczesny still are for Juve.
Firstly, I'm quite disappointed with the narrative that its been 2 years in which De Gea hasn't performed for us. He was the best GK in the 2017-18 season and he started the 2018-19 season in his usual vain even though the team was disappointing. After his performance against Spurs in January 2019, it wasn't seen as a revival but rather De Gea doing what he does best. It was towards the final portion of the season (post PSG), that he had a bad couple of months which were probably the worst of his United career. No one and literally no one stood out from our team at that time. Not a single outfield player.
In the current season, I would agree that he hasn't hit the levels he has shown in the past. But apart from Watford away and Everton away, I can't think of any other errors from him that have resulted in direct goals (even the Rodriguez's wonder strike against us is considered as an error by many). Even in official stats, the comparison is 3 errors by De Gea (same as Ederson) vs. 1 for Henderson. Depending on your viewpoint, you can look at the stats as that its two more than Henderson or three times as many.
The fact that I resent the most is not that fans like you prefer Henderson over De Gea. That is an opinion which you're completely entitled to. The actual issue is that ever since Henderson has emerged, it has caused fans to exaggerate the apparent "failings" of De Gea. You do not see City looking to replace Ederson with the same amount of errors. It is the options paralysis that is creating doubts in the minds of some.
I completely accept your assertion of De Gea having the high number of errors leading to goals over 2 seasons, but majority of those were in an extremely small window of poor form. De Gea is 29 right now and if average goalkeeping age is considered the parameter, he is about to hit the goalkeeping peak. I would definitely want to see if De Gea can hit his original heights or even improve on it because if anyone in the United squad deserves that credit, its him. And even if not, we have seen one season of Henderson playing for Sheffield United. As good as it has been, its nowhere near enough evidence. If he maintains or improves on his performances, his case becomes much stronger. If he were already not our player, he wouldn't even be considered to be signed as a replacement for De Gea.
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Good post.
He did actually start that season a bit shaky (by his own normal standards) for the first month or two. After that he did kick on and was amazing for the remainder though.
Agree with 17/18 (bar the first month or two as I mentioned above). But at no point in 18/19 was he at his usual level. Right from the start he was shaky by his normal standards just as he had been the previous season, but this time he didn't come out of it. He wasn't terrible and for most keepers it would probably be a decent level, but compared to how he had performed the previous six or so seasons it was a noticeable decline. Then he had that horror end to the season where he cost us a ridiculous amount of points.
This season he's basically been at that shaky level all season. Not terrible, but nowhere near what he once was.
Henderson's contract with United runs through June 2022, with a year option that would run it through June 2023.
DDG's contract with United runs through June 2023, with a year option that would run it through June 2024.
As you can see, there is a year overlap, which was done by design. And Henderson has been at the club since he was 14 and there's been a specific development system for him and he's only spoken highly about United. It's his aim to be the undisputed #1 for United. The player and club know this and believe in this. And it seems that both Henderson (academy) and DDG (straight into the #1) arrived at the club in 2011. This is a youth academy player who will soon be #1 for England and United.
This was from June 2018 when he signed his first professional contract w/United:
“I'm really delighted,” he told MUTV. “Coming off the back of last season and playing games at Shrewsbury and having a good season there, to return to the biggest club in the world and put pen-to-paper again is a great achievement for me and my family. It's another dream come true.
”Obviously, there was a lot of interest after last season, when I've done myself well going out and playing but, look, United are the biggest club in the world and have been my club since day one so, of course, they are always first in my mind.
“All my family are here with me now and it's an honour. To come from where we started from, from nothing, to come all this way is fantastic and I'm just really delighted.”
WTF you on about whos making shit up. Isnt De Geas contract another 4 years ? Or do you know better?
Yes i understand the contracts, but if Henderson keeps improving will he want to keep going out on loan to the likes of Sheff Utd or if a big club came in for him would his head be turned with the potential of winning trophies? Thats why I think by this time next year certainly Ole may have to make a decision.
It's true that de Gea is about to reach the age of usual goalkeeping peak, but the worrying fact is that he has already shown signs of decline over the past two seasons. Apart from making mistakes, conceding 30 from an xGa of 30.6 this season (and more notably 54 from 52.3 in 18/19) suggests he's now just an average keeper who only makes saves that he's expected to make. It's not just about the Watford and Everton game, but the overall performance is far below his standard.
Of course Henderson wouldn't be signed as a replacement for de Gea if he weren't one of us, because such a good homegrown keeper would cost 50m+ and we would have invested the money in other more prioritized positions. The ridiculous 375k-per-week salary also guarantees a spot for de Gea, otherwise the contract would be a hilarious joke to the club. He's destined to stay till his contract expires and he will be our no. 1 regardless of his performances. I just wonder whether Henderson has the patience to wait for 3 more years.
But why do you believe Henderson is going to be loaned out for the full extent of it ?I’d make him our number one next year.
De Gea for me hasn’t been the same for a long time now, it’s a shame but it is what it is.
Secondly, Henderson seems like a really talented goalkeeper, not only that but he has time on his side.
We’re building a young exciting team and to me it makes sense to get him in now and let him develop with the group, rather than trying include him when the squad is more ready to compete for major honours.
De Gea for me hasn’t been the same for a long time now, it’s a shame but it is what it is.
Secondly, Henderson seems like a really talented goalkeeper, not only that but he has time on his side.
We’re building a young exciting team and to me it makes sense to get him in now and let him develop with the group, rather than trying include him when the squad is more ready to compete for major honours.
Why ?
To which bit mate? If you mean to the last bit then it’s just because I think putting a new keeper to a side is a bit tricky.
I don’t think we’re ready to compete for the big trophies just yet, so to me it makes sense to get Henderson in now and let him get settled, rather than waiting another year or two until the other players are a bit older.
Once they are and we look more like a squad ready to compete, it could completely derail that season having to get rid of De Gea and having to bring a new keeper in.
This is a fair sentiment to have. And I agree with it. But the real yardstick, at least in my mind, would be whether the answer to the question whether Henderson is that good that we would pay big money to be De Gea's replacement. Right now, I'm quite sure that it wouldn't be the right decision. Next season, he should again be out on loan and if the situation remains comparable.
Then, the following season should be akin to Courtois and Cech at Chelsea post which Courtois came out as the No.1. It is only then we should decide whether Henderson has earned the right to become our No.1 by proving himself to be better than the immediate competition. On the flip side, we could also have a highly motivated De Gea who hits his original peak in the face of increased competition. This could be the ultimate win-win for us.
Right now, firstly, it is way too soon for us to consider Henderson has a clear cut No.1 ahead of De Gea and secondly, we have him for another 3 years. Surely, the decision should and would be taken at least a year from now.
Realistically if Henderson was here next year he wouldn't start the season as #1. DDG would and Henderson would have to wrest that mantle from him.
If he does, great. If he doesn't though then what? He's now isn't getting the game time he needs to develop and has hindered his chances of becoming England's #1. Does he go out on loan again? Stay on the bench for a few years until DDG leaves? It wouldn't be a case of "well if he can't beat De Gea then he isn't good enough anyway" either. He might be good enough, he just wasn't ready yet. And for the sake of rushing him in off the back of one PL season at a lower level you've hindered the development of a promising player.
Whereas if we send Henderson out on loan again his career can continue to flourish, his chances of securing the England #1 spot increase, we end up with double the amount of PL games to judge him on and we get another year to assess DDG's current standing. If Henderson has another succesful season (and becomes England #1) while DDG has a third season in a row of underperformance then there's a different dynamic between the two, with Henderson in a better position to come in and supplant DDG. But crucially if DDG has a good season, Henderson's development hasn't been hampered and he's still potentially in a position to take over from DDG down the line.
Whatever about whether Henderson would wait three years on loan, I haven't seen anyone suggest he's unwilling to wait another year. So leave him be.
If he does, great. If he doesn't though then what? He's now isn't getting the game time he needs to develop and has hindered his chances of becoming England's #1. Does he go out on loan again? Stay on the bench for a few years until DDG leaves? It wouldn't be a case of "well if he can't beat De Gea then he isn't good enough anyway" either. He might be good enough, he just wasn't ready yet. And for the sake of rushing him in off the back of one PL season at a lower level you've hindered the development of a promising player.
Whereas if we send Henderson out on loan again his career can continue to flourish, his chances of securing the England #1 spot increase, we end up with double the amount of PL games to judge him on and we get another year to assess DDG's current standing. If Henderson has another succesful season (and becomes England #1) while DDG has a third season in a row of underperformance then there's a different dynamic between the two, with Henderson in a better position to come in and supplant DDG. But crucially if DDG has a good season, Henderson's development hasn't been hampered and he's still potentially in a position to take over from DDG down the line.
Whatever about whether Henderson would wait three years on loan, I haven't seen anyone suggest he's unwilling to wait another year. So leave him be.
No I dont that was why my first post I asked why you were laughing when I said Ole has got a big decision to make either the start of next season or at least the season after. Read it again.
That's an ideal way to handle the situation, but I doubt things would go as perfectly as planned. As I've said, de Gea's 375k-per-week salary pretty much guarantees a spot for him. Given his repeated errors and terrible form towards the end of last season, Ole still refused to drop him and chose to stick with him. As far as I see, he will be our first choice as long as he's here and competition is nonexistent. Henderson may start in the cup games but I doubt he could challenge the no. 1 spot, and I wonder if he would be satisfied with that.
The Cech-Courtois situation was barely comparable and it didn't go as you mentioned. It actually went pretty ugly eventually. In 2013 Courtois started to express his will to return to Chelsea, and that he wouldn't be a backup for Cech (1). When he returned to his parent club in 14/15, he basically took over as the first choice. Cech immediately became out of favor and he was unhappy with the situation (2). He was asking to leave throughout the season and was sold to Arsenal at last (3). It was a circus rather than the healthy competition you described.
(1) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...-to-Chelsea-and-be-back-up-for-Petr-Cech.html
(2) https://www.goal.com/en/news/i-wasn...1-cech-reflects-on/178wr4r890d2v1l9shtwcqnl24
(3) https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/petr-cech...t-courtois-backup-chelsea-next-season-1493371