Which do we need more? DM or Back up creative midfielder

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Among the things I highlighted from the Tottenham game(and our season entirely) two of them was our need for a back up creative midfielder and a DM.

We've seen this season that we have problems with teams that sit back against us. Pogba and Bruno seem to have provided the solution to that but we are back to square one when one of them is injured or rotated. One injury to Bruno and we are back to being overly dependent on Pogba for creativity like last season. Same thing goes for an injury to Pogba

For DM we saw in the Tottenham game and our unbeaten run so far which a natural DM like Matic has featured heavily. We've seen the defensive solidity he brings to the team but he is ageing and lacking the pace and energy to constantly feature in a midfield three with Bruno and Pogba.

So that being said, if it comes down to only getting one. Which do we need more, a DM or a backup creative midfielder and who do you suggest

RW is priority number one of course
 
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RW. Not even close. Matic can do a job at CDM. Fred and McT are decent midfielders. But we have no one at RW.
 
I think our priorities look something like this;
RW >> DM > CB >> Backup AM > New no.9
 
In a game where we drew because of lack of creativity the solution is cdm? Unless you mean a carrick/busquets type it's a no.
 
flappyjay said:
In a game where we drew because of lack of creativity the solution is cdm? Unless you mean a carrick/busquets type it's a no.
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How do you enable creative players to do their thing? Give them confidence in the solid base of a side.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
How do you enable creative players to do their thing? Give them confidence in the solid base of a side.
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Or maybe try to give them the ball with some space, or not a bad pass or when being surrounded by 3 players. Helps when you have players that can actually pass the ball with some intelligence and competency.
 
Our problem has long been breaking down teams who sit back. Our defence and midfield is manageable, we don't desperately need to upgrade any of them. We can control games and even with a few meltdown games like Sheffield United and Burnley we still have a decent defensive record. What we do need is width and a more dangerous attack.

Martial and Rashford can be world class on their day but they do go missing. It's becoming fairly clear that Rashford will be a left forward who can chip in with 15-20 goals a season, but we need somebody up there who will consistently do closer to 25, and it's not going to be Martial. Maybe it will be our ever elusive right sided player, but if not then Martial will need upgrading. We need one more top class player in our forward line.


A new DM would be nice but we already have two of the best creative midfielders in the world. Adding another one will change nothing.
 
We need at least two top class creative midfielders in the squad. Without creative fullbacks and creative forwards, the ability to create chances from midfield should be our number one priority.

If Pogba stays, DM becomes priority. If he leaves, a replacement becomes priority.
 
We dont need a DM. We have conceded 3 goals in 12 games and those 3 have been keeper howlers. We are well stocked in DMs, its very rare when soneone can get at our back 4
 
flappyjay said:
In a game where we drew because of lack of creativity the solution is cdm? Unless you mean a carrick/busquets type it's a no.
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No, it’s based on our entire team and season. Not one specific game where our best creative player didn’t start.

Also, RW is no.1 priority. An actual RW who can contribute- I.E. not James - will do a lot.
 
flappyjay said:
In a game where we drew because of lack of creativity the solution is cdm? Unless you mean a carrick/busquets type it's a no.
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Carrick/Busquets type is exactly what's needed. Someone who can both screen the back four and contribute to our buildup play.

RW is still the number one priority, though. With our current compliment of fullbacks and wingers, we are utterly devoid of attacking quality out wide.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Or maybe try to give them the ball with some space, or not a bad pass or when being surrounded by 3 players. Helps when you have players that can actually pass the ball with some intelligence and competency.
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Assuming we have Sancho on the RW more space will be made.

You can’t stick Bruno and Pogba on the pitch without someone to mop up.

Bruno and Pogba would be like a better version of Maddison and Tielemans for Leicester. Similar styles and roles but that requires a good base.
 
For transfer purposes, I would put the DM ahead of a back up creative CM in terms of priority and I think this is where the Academy can play a part. Gomes perhaps? Hannibal?

I’m still hoping that Woodward doesn’t move sequentially through the transfer needs list; he shouldn’t wait to decide on Sancho before filling the DM role. If Camavinga or Zakaria are attainable fill that hole now.

Spending a bit of money before bidding on Sancho might actually be helpful in reducing BVB‘s asking price. If we are the only bidder as logic suggests and they are committed to selling, then spending part of our kitty elsewhere suggests to BVB that there isn’t a blank check waiting for them. If we offer £80m as best and final, they might agree knowing that in this environment there simply isn’t any additional money available.
 
RW is number 1 priority, from there I'd say a reliable CB partner to Maguire. Bailey type but more commanding/reliable. CDM just isn't one for next season given we have Matic for next season, and between him and McTominay, we can definitely rotate effectively (and then see how Garner develops). Garner might be a bit away, so we should re-evaluate next summer. Creative midfield as well, Pogba and Bruno are great players and then in the midfield rotation you have Fred as a very good squad player (albeit changing styles as he isn't so much creative). Its good depth to have in midfield though, not to mention the likes of Mata and Pereira will almost definitely still be squad players. Summer 2021 will likely be a lot more active from us, whereas this summer was all about keeping Ighalo another year and getting Sancho.
 
I saw a statman Dave video yesterday about how we would beat spurs and he didn’t even bother highlighting the right side whatsoever. It was just basically about how Rashford could exploit Aurier and how martial could draw the central defenders out while Bruno and pogba play Rashford in. Until we have a balanced attack it’s going to be much easier to concentrate on Rashford, Martial and whatever players from midfield get forward. It’ll be very easy mark martial and Rashford out of games and sit back especially while they find their fitness and shooting boots again. That movement that pogba made for the peno yesterday? He shouldn’t even really have to be there. A classy RW would have been doing that all game while pogba can apply pressure in another area. Simply put we still need as much creativity as possible in the squad. I agree with the poster above who said if either pogba or Bruno get injured then we are back to square 1 and we still need a RW. RW is the priority but we also should never stop looking to upgrade and supplement what we already have.
 
I really think people are sleeping on the lack of a quality holder who can pass in this squad, it will become doubly apparent once Pogba is starting as Matic doesn't have the legs for it, and neither McTominay or Fred are actually holders, both are Jack of all trades grafters, good workhorses that have a pass in their locker now and then, but overall work well together as they cover so much ground that it can free up Bruno, but against better sides it's not enough as it heaps too much on one player yet again.

I think over the next 3 transfer windows we'll likely look to add 5 players, RW, Holding CM, Creative CM, CB and another Forward.

RW - This is the main thing to get sorted this summer.

If Pogba stays through next season then a holder is vital to play alongside him then we can see if he wants to stay long term and if Angel Gomes can become the back-up AM and eventually competing to start. It's the same with CB, can Bailly or Axel cement themselves as Maguire's partner? There could be answers to a couple of questions within the squad.
 
RW should be a priority, but when it comes to the question about our midfield - yes we should get a midfielder in as well. Should we get a defensive minded midfielder or a creative minded one? Looking at our problems this season (we struggle to break teams who sit deep), we should definitely get a more creative minded one. If Pogba or Bruno get injured we are back to square one with Pereira/Lingard/Mata who are all not good enough.

Which is why after RW, we should definitely go after Grealish or VDB. DM can wait for the following window. In fact, I would even put a CB as a greater need for us over a DM simply because I do not think Lindelof is good enough and Bailly/Tuanzebe are way too injury prone.

For me the priority this window should be:
1. RW
2. Creative midfielder
3. CB

In the next window we can sort out:
DM
Striker
Backup fullback
 
Right wing, defensive midfielder, center back, creative midfeilder

We need to sort out the right wing this summer
 
We need a player who can run the game, we don't have any, no midfield generals.
 
Upcoming window
1) Right winger
100%.
2) Defensive midfielder
If Pogba stays then Matic isn't enough for a whole season and i don't trust McTominay to play the position good enough with Pogba & Fernandes as the other midfielders.
3) Attacking midfielder
To replace Pogba & Fernandes in some games and maybe he could play on the wing too therefore Grealish/Szoboszlai/Ihattaren/Zaniolo would be great transfer options.
4) Centre-back
If Tuanzebe & Bailly can't stay fit and if for example a player like Upamecano is on the market for a great price then we must go in.

Summer window 2021-2022
1) Left-back
Shaw should get a last chance next season and Williams deserves anyway a full season but of course we need more attacking quality from the left-back (Because i don't think Wan-Bissaka will improve so much his attacking game and Laird must first stay fit to get his chance).
2) Striker
Martial must score more goals should he have then Rashford, Pogba, Fernandes & Sancho around him next season........it depends where Greenwood's best position will be in the team.
 
We need to start out by sorting the Martial/Rashford problem which is then supplemented by jamming Dan James in on the right. Solve that and we have enough of a midfield contingent to get by at the moment, three creative midfielders and one facilitator then buy a DM for defensive duties and holding when required in a midfield 3.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Among the things I highlighted from the Tottenham game(and our season entirely) two of them was our need for a back up creative midfielder and a DM.

We've seen this season that we have problems with teams that sit back against us. Pogba and Bruno seem to have provided the solution to that but we are back to square one when one of them is injured or rotated. One injury to Bruno and we are back to being overly dependent on Pogba for creativity like last season. Same thing goes for an injury to Pogba

For DM we saw in the Tottenham game and our unbeaten run so far which a natural DM like Matic has featured heavily. We've seen the defensive solidity he brings to the team but he is ageing and lacking the pace and energy to constantly feature in a midfield three with Bruno and Pogba.

So that being said, if it comes down to only getting one. Which do we need more, a DM or a backup creative midfielder and who do you suggest

RW is priority number one of course
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We need a deep lying playmaker. Fred and Mctominay were useless. We need skill in there pulling the strings. It would take us to the next level.

Matic is best at that for now. And Pogba and Bruno can develop a great attacking partnership. But we need better skill and decision making behind.
 
I'd say back up creative midfielder. We really struggled before Fernandez in that position. Another one that could also play RW would be the ideal signing.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
RW is huge for us; it simply can’t be Sancho or nothing.
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ghaliboy said:
We need to start out by sorting the Martial/Rashford problem which is then supplemented by jamming Dan James in on the right. Solve that and we have enough of a midfield contingent to get by at the moment, three creative midfielders and one facilitator then buy a DM for defensive duties and holding when required in a midfield 3.
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Greenwood will do for now on the right.
 
To get the best out of Pogba and Bruno, we need a disciplined and hard tackling defensive midfielder. I wonder how hard would it be to attract Partey to United. Partey, Pogba and Bruno would be crazy. Fred, Matic and McT are good but not good enough.

We need a RW.... I'm tired of seeing James start games for us and Greenwood, even though he's good. I would rather have him develop his striker and poacher qualities instead of becoming a dribbler. He needs to focus on learning how to hold the ball and be a fox in the box. Sancho needs to be brought in.

Despite bringing in Maguire, CB still seems pretty light.... Maguire and none of the other CBs work well together. Upamecano or Konate would be great acquisitions.

I do like the idea of getting Van De Beek who could fit in if anyone was injured and can also play as a No. 10 if required.

Partey, Sancho, Konate, Van De Beek.... Those players would instantly elevate the team and could easily help us pose a title challenge.
 
Icemav said:
We need a deep lying playmaker. Fred and Mctominay were useless. We need skill in there pulling the strings. It would take us to the next level.

Matic is best at that for now. And Pogba and Bruno can develop a great attacking partnership. But we need better skill and decision making behind.
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So you would spent a ton of money based on one game against the best defensive tactics coach in the league? And suddenly McT and Fred are useless?

We might need a younger version of Matic but deep lying playmaker? So we would then have 3 playmakers in midfield at the same time?

That is a recipe for disaster, very trigger-happy approach to transfers and tactics.
 
With Pogba and Bruno there definitely doesn't need to be another creative midfielder.

A player like VDB would be great but there needs to be a real ball winner in the side so Bruno and Pogba can take the ball forward.

The team direly needs wingers that can stretch a team, currently there are 'runners' of course that are fast but lack the cutting edge.
 
A pure out and out defensive midfielder with lots of stamina and coverage allows both Fernandes and Pogba to play together without being restricted due to defensive obligations, Matic is good every now and again but he doesn’t have the stamina to cover as much ground as is needed.

Someone like N’Didi or Rice if he started fulfilling the potential he first had would be perfect between Fernandes and Pogba, McTominay and Fred both cover lots of ground and are high energy players but neither are an out and out pure defensive midfielder.

In a 4-3-3 (providing we get Sancho) having a front 5 of Fernandes, Pogba, Sancho, Martial and Rashford is on paper as good as anything anyone has in the league and better than the large majority. There’s a lot of creativity and goals in that group but it needs a high energy defensive midfielder for it to fully function at its best.

No new creative midfielder is getting in ahead of Fernandes and Pogba so they’d be a bench option and how many genuine class creative midfielders will be happy as a bench option ? If Pogba leaves then yes 100% we need another creative midfielder but all indications now are he’s staying so our priorities are Sancho and a high energy pure defensive midfielder.
 
beingshe7don said:
To get the best out of Pogba and Bruno, we need a disciplined and hard tackling defensive midfielder. I wonder how hard would it be to attract Partey to United. Partey, Pogba and Bruno would be crazy. Fred, Matic and McT are good but not good enough.

We need a RW.... I'm tired of seeing James start games for us and Greenwood, even though he's good. I would rather have him develop his striker and poacher qualities instead of becoming a dribbler. He needs to focus on learning how to hold the ball and be a fox in the box. Sancho needs to be brought in.

Despite bringing in Maguire, CB still seems pretty light.... Maguire and none of the other CBs work well together. Upamecano or Konate would be great acquisitions.

I do like the idea of getting Van De Beek who could fit in if anyone was injured and can also play as a No. 10 if required.

Partey, Sancho, Konate, Van De Beek.... Those players would instantly elevate the team and could easily help us pose a title challenge.
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If we got those 4 players I do believe we'd challenge too.
 
davidmichael said:
A pure out and out defensive midfielder with lots of stamina and coverage allows both Fernandes and Pogba to play together without being restricted due to defensive obligations, Matic is good every now and again but he doesn’t have the stamina to cover as much ground as is needed.

Someone like N’Didi or Rice if he started fulfilling the potential he first had would be perfect between Fernandes and Pogba, McTominay and Fred both cover lots of ground and are high energy players but neither are an out and out pure defensive midfielder.

In a 4-3-3 (providing we get Sancho) having a front 5 of Fernandes, Pogba, Sancho, Martial and Rashford is on paper as good as anything anyone has in the league and better than the large majority. There’s a lot of creativity and goals in that group but it needs a high energy defensive midfielder for it to fully function at its best.

No new creative midfielder is getting in ahead of Fernandes and Pogba so they’d be a bench option and how many genuine class creative midfielders will be happy as a bench option ? If Pogba leaves then yes 100% we need another creative midfielder but all indications now are he’s staying so our priorities are Sancho and a high energy pure defensive midfielder.
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Exactly. Pogba and Fernandes needs to be 'let loose' they will obviously still be involved in pressing but they need to focus on attacking and creating chances. To be able to do this the third midfield role to play with Pogba and Bruno requires someone who can cover a large amount of ground in addition to having good positional sense.

Matic has good positional sense but lacks the energy and pace to cover alot of ground. I will be honest I liked the way we controlled the game with Matic Bruno Pogba so I wouldn't be opposed to getting a creative DM similar to Matic but I don't think a creative DM is necessary since we already have 2 creative midfielders to control the game. Asides from that most creative DMs would not provided the type of defensive cover Bruno and Pogba needs which is why someone like Ndidi is better
 
I think either way an alternative to Matic is needed. Garner may well end up performing the role we want in a few years maybe McTominay more immediately?
 
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