Top 4 Race 19/20 | duffer: "We [Chelsea] are getting 3rd. Despite what the lunatics in here think, Man United are not all that."

[P-Nut]

I'd prefer us and Chelsea in top 4 ahead of Leicester City so I could watch more Chelsea games in UCL if they progressed through to the round of 16 games and go further but Leicester City? Meh.

Leicester City's form in 2020 is not great, they seem to return to the same level as they were before the start of 2019/20, I think they're the most likely team to drop out of the top 4 rather than Chelsea.

Leicsters last CL run was mightily entertaining.

 

[DoneDaDa]

I've enjoyed Lampard stint as a Chelsea manager so far, quite curious to see where it goes.

 

[Gasolin]

Good analysis. You're right about the fixture lists.
But it's still a tough ask to gain 5 or 6 extra points over 8 games: requires us to be in top from, while Chelsea only pick up 50% of points available.
Especially when our side now has a reputation for not being able to comfortably beat bottom 10 teams.
Everything lies on Bruno/Pogba partnership to create chances for our forwards.

And on our forwards to finish them, cause that's also a problem. We need extra focus for the last games. It's always doable, but I would have preferred a mental collapse from Chelsea earlier. Right now, they are still ok.

 

[Gasolin]

What distractions? European football is in August, after the domestic season is over.

Ah that's good, so basically whatever happens in the league, we can play Europa to get a chance. Not too bad mentally then.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Ah that's good, so basically whatever happens in the league, we can play Europa to get a chance. Not too bad mentally then.

Europa league is only a one legged tie too. So I wouldn't bank on that at all

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

I'm kidding of course. You'll smash Sheffield United and we'll lose to Man City and it'll be down to 2 points.

Think we will draw myself, and Utd wont smash Sheff U. Be a difficult game for both sides, as will ours

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

If City win their appeal and don't get a ban then UEFA may as well scrap FFP and never bother going after anyone again. It will make them look completely toothless and humiliate them.

Thats exactly what would happen and PSG, Chelsea and Man City etc will spend money like its going out of fashion. However, i fail to see how they can possibly win. They will get a 1 year ban for the coming season minimum

 

[DRM]

I don't doubt Chelsea will lose plenty of points during their run in. I just think United will lose just as many, despite having an easier fixture list.

Bingo!

 

[romufc]

We need to win 7/8 games to get top 4.

Is it only me, but with a bit of luck we can go on this run.

 

[passing-wind]

I don't doubt Chelsea will lose plenty of points during their run in. I just think United will lose just as many, despite having an easier fixture list.

Realistically this is the most viable outcome. The season has just started and we are already a further 2 points off target. Irrespective of the opposition it was an extremely poor spurs side that we played. We will struggle with the remainder games, i think if we slip back into 6th - 8th serious questions need to be posed at Solskjaer this squad should easily be in the top 4.

 

[cyberman]

We need to win 7/8 games to get top 4.

Is it only me, but with a bit of luck we can go on this run.

We can realistically do this with the tough schedule. We usually do well over the busy Christmas period because of this very reason. Teams will small squads just aren't built for a game every 3 to 4 days and we are.

 

[CM]

I think we've left it a bit late to catch Leicester, even if their form has dipped in their last few.

Catching Chelsea should still be achievable, they've still got City, Liverpool and Wolves to play, while our run in looks quite favourable on paper. As usual, I think our biggest obstacle could be ourselves - I know we're on an 'unbeaten' run but it feels so long since we actually put a run of wins together.

Edit: Just looked at the table actually, Leicester are only 3 ahead of Chelsea now (4 with the superior GD) but they've got a few tough games themselves. Makes it a bit more interesting.

 

[romufc]

Irrespective of the opposition

Why? Why does the opposition not matter?

Poor team, one that got to the CL final last season.

Jose tactics as well, always well drilled, first game back.

 

[romufc]

We can realistically do this with the tough schedule We usually do well over the busy Christmas period because of this very reason. Teams will small squads just aren't built for a game every 3 to 4 days and we are.

Exactly, an almost fully fit squad, if we have any chance of challenging for the title next season, we need to start from Wednesday.

Top 4 next season is not the ojbective and to win the title you need to go on runs like this.

 

[elmo]

I think we've left it a bit late to catch Leicester, even if their form has dipped in their last few.

Catching Chelsea should still be achievable, they've still got City, Liverpool and Wolves to play, while our run in looks quite favourable on paper. As usual, I think our biggest obstacle could be ourselves - I know we're on an 'unbeaten' run but it feels so long since we actually put a run of wins together.

We'll have more chance if Ole finally realises we should start Mason and have James coming off the bench.

 

[cyberman]

Exactly, an almost fully fit squad, if we have any chance of challenging for the title next season, we need to start from Wednesday.

Top 4 next season is not the ojbective and to win the title you need to go on runs like this.

I do think Wednesday will tell a tale. If we easily beat Sheff Utd and they show signs of being worn down then i dont see how Palace etc arent affected even further into this.
Thats why this whole end of season is an abomination

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I'm expecting something similar to the below. I think in our case we should be able to afford a loss along the way but only 1 loss. Beyond that it pretty much needs to be maximum points.

For us I think Palace away and Leicester away are the biggest banana skins and I've tried to be positive with other sides in the race as a sort of worst case scenario. A large part of this is the assumption Bruno and Pogba are on the pitch from now on.

I don't think Leicester will be caught but they will drop points and may pick up a loss on the way but I haven't planned for that.

Chelsea I cannot see stringing more than two wins on the trot as they have difficult away fixtures lots of London derby scenarios and City and Liverpool left to play. Pretty much the worst scenario for them to play the best two sides, derbies etc. Only Norwich is an easy game (in theory).

Wolves have a tougher run than us too. Some seem guaranteed 3 pointers but Arsenal, Sheffield, Everton and Chelsea I think will give them a hard time.

I do think we'll get the most points out of the 4 sides over the next few games as our side is much improved with Bruno and Pogba whereas the other teams haven't really benefited from new or returning players.

TEAM	Leicester - P54 GD30​	Chelsea - P51 GD13​	United P46 GD14​	Wolves P46 GD9​
	H - Brighton	H - Man City	H - Sheffield	H - Bournemouth
	A - Everton	A - West Ham	A - Brighton	A - Villa
	H - Palace	H - Watford	H - Bournemouth	H - Arsenal
	A - Arsenal	A - Palace	A - Villa	A - Sheffield
	A - Bournemouth	A - Sheffield	H - Southampton	H - Everton
	H - Sheffield	H - Norwich	A - Palace	A - Burnley
	A - Spurs	A - Liverpool	H - West Ham	H - Palace
	H - United	H - Wolves	A - Leicester	A - Chelsea
Exp Points	14	12	20	15
Exp Final Total	68	64	66	61

 

[passing-wind]

Why? Why does the opposition not matter?

Poor team, one that got to the CL final last season.

Jose tactics as well, always well drilled, first game back.

Spurs have fallen apart this season, 8th in the league, whenever have they showed the momentum to match their form and consistency from last season ? They lost the most successful manager in their recent club history and Mourinho is about as washed up as it gets. Spent almost 400 million with us and has absolutely nothing to show for it.

I understand that it's an away game but notice the title of this thread is the top 4 race, in order to get to that target the mentality needed is to win irrespective of who we are playing that's the bottom line. We will not achieve that target unless there are circumstances outside the variables that we can control (opposition dropping points). We have a good enough team on paper but we lack the consistency to make anything stick unless we can find the form to match the 11 game streak we was on.

 

[cyberman]

Spurs should have got a draw at home v Liverpool and took 4 points off City this season.
Theyre a poor side but Jose can still set them up to frustrate, its not a given they should lose.

 

[romufc]

Spurs have fallen apart this season, 8th in the league, whenever have they showed the momentum to match their form and consistency from last season ? They lost the most successful manager in their recent club history and Mourinho is about as washed up as it gets. Spent almost 400 million with us and has absolutely nothing to show for it.

I understand that it's an away game but notice the title of this thread is the top 4 race, in order to get to that target the mentality needed is to win irrespective of who we are playing that's the bottom line. We will not achieve that target unless there are circumstances outside the variables that we can control (opposition dropping points). We have a good enough team on paper but we lack the consistency to make anything stick unless we can find the form to match the 11 game streak we was on.

Yes, Spurs have fallen apart and they got rid of their manager.

Call Jose washed up and whatever other words you like but you know what you expect from Jsoe in his first couple seasons. Hard to beat, well organised.

Jose needed this break more than any other manager in the league so he can get his tactics across to his player.

This is exactly what we saw, a low defensive block and counter. That is Jose.

Now, 3 months without playing football you expect us to go in and play glorious football, are you joking?

The great Liverpool couldn't even find gear either.

 

[rotherham_red]

Yes, Spurs have fallen apart and they got rid of their manager.

Call Jose washed up and whatever other words you like but you know what you expect from Jsoe in his first couple seasons. Hard to beat, well organised.

Jose needed this break more than any other manager in the league so he can get his tactics across to his player.

This is exactly what we saw, a low defensive block and counter. That is Jose.

Now, 3 months without playing football you expect us to go in and play glorious football, are you joking?

The great Liverpool couldn't even find gear either.

Literally this.

A Jose with a point to prove and time on his hands was always going to be a dangerous proposition.

People thinking otherwise are just being wilfully ignorant.

 

[romufc]

Literally this.

A Jose with a point to prove and time on his hands was always going to be a dangerous proposition.

People thinking otherwise are just being wilfully ignorant.

People acting as if this was a Burnley, Newcastle or West Ham away performance.

It wasnt. in those games we did not look like scoring a goal however; in this game, we created chances and kept doing so right to the final whistle.

Our hardest game out the way with a draw. People here saying oh Kane had a crap game or else we would have been in trouble... yes, but Rashford had a poor game too. Every team in the PL lacks match sharpness and it is quite clear to see in every game so far.

 

[Noodle]

It's going to go right down to the wire i think. We of course have the harder run in on paper but football isn't played on paper, plus Leicesters is theoretically worse and they are only 3pts ahead of us.

What i will say is IF you beat Sheff Utd and IF we lose to City, i would have taken a 2pt advantage after getting City out of the way and knocking another 2 games off the 9 original games.

But this is football and you never know, however unlikely it is Sheff Utd could upset you and we could upset City meaning after this week the gap could be anything between 2 and 8 points.

 

[rotherham_red]

People acting as if this was a Burnley, Newcastle or West Ham away performance.

It wasnt. in those games we did not look like scoring a goal however; in this game, we created chances and kept doing so right to the final whistle.

Our hardest game out the way with a draw. People here saying oh Kane had a crap game or else we would have been in trouble... yes, but Rashford had a poor game too. Every team in the PL lacks match sharpness and it is quite clear to see in every game so far.

Exactly. And if we looked at the other teams around us, we seemed to be much more at it than most of the rest. That 30 minute period with Pogba was extremely encouraging as far as I'm concerned.

 

[romufc]

Exactly. And if we looked at the other teams around us, we seemed to be much more at it than most of the rest. That 30 minute period with Pogba was extremely encouraging as far as I'm concerned.

Those who are there moaning about the performance need to play football. To expect players who have had 3 months off and 2 weeks contact training to come back as if they are playing a match every week is naive.

A normal season has 1 month off, 1 month pre season and 8 pre season games and sometimes the first game people feel they are not fully sharp. Compare that to this now.

Like you said, when Pogba came on, we looked sharp and only one team looked like scoring. The criticism on players on there is shocking, someone would think we lost 4-0.

 

[Dancfc]

Literally this.

A Jose with a point to prove and time on his hands was always going to be a dangerous proposition.

People thinking otherwise are just being wilfully ignorant.

I'm not saying a point at WHL isn't a decent result but this "Jose having a point to prove" is a bit of a false narrative these days.

He has had a "point to prove" every time he's faced us and we've largely slapped his side's about.

 

[romufc]

I'm not saying a point at WHL isn't a decent result but this "Jose having a point to prove" is a bit of a false narrative these days.

He has had a "point to prove" every time he's faced us and we've largely slapped his side's about.

Jose was United and in 6 games Chelsea won 1.

So please, remind me where you have slapped his sides? If you count spurs this season when he hasn't even had a chance to imprint his styel, then you are pushing it.

 

[Dancfc]

Jose was United and in 6 games Chelsea won 1.

So please, remind me where you have slapped his sides? If you count spurs this season when he hasn't even had a chance to imprint his styel, then you are pushing it.

Umm what?

We faced Jose's United 7 times and won 4, and as you said done the double over his Spurs side.

Our overall record against him at United/Spurs reads W6 D1 L2, that's a pretty comprehensive record by any standards.

 

[romufc]

Umm what?

We faced Jose's United 7 times and won 4, and as you said done the double over his Spurs side.

Our overall record against him at United/Spurs reads W6 D1 L2, that's a pretty comprehensive record by any standards.

My mistake.

It was only the one game which was 4-0 so I am unsure of this keep slapping Jose's teams comes from.

Also, how can the metric of one team beating a manager be the metric to how good he is? Ole has spanked Chelsea a few times, doesn't mean he is the superior manager.

We all know what Jose can do, in his first season at clubs he gets them well drilled and defensively solid. The reason he has fallen so far back is that football is alot more expansive now.

 

[Dancfc]

My mistake.

It was only the one game which was 4-0 so I am unsure of this keep slapping Jose's teams comes from.

Also, how can the metric of one team beating a manager be the metric to how good he is? Ole has spanked Chelsea a few times, doesn't mean he is the superior manager.

We all know what Jose can do, in his first season at clubs he gets them well drilled and defensively solid. The reason he has fallen so far back is that football is alot more expansive now.

The FA Cup game and the game the following season were probably even more comprehensive despite them only being 1-0 and we thoroughly outplayed his Spurs side twice. We were second best in that Final though.

And Ole does well against us, no problems with admiting that.

 

[romufc]

The FA Cup game and the game the following season were probably even more comprehensive despite them only being 1-0 and we thoroughly outplayed his Spurs side twice. We were second best in that Final though.

And Ole does well against us, no problems with admiting that.

Yes, Chelsea were the superior team back then. Winning the title and United were coming 4/5th. Jose hasn't had the chance to put his marker on this spurs team. he has had a mini pre season now.

We can also admit that in a one off game against better opposition, Jose can nullify a team. He has proved it over the years.

 

[Leftback99]

Liverpool will have to be a lot better than last night if they are going to beat Chelsea in their end of season dead rubber game which many here see as a given.

 

[anant]

I have a feeling Leicester will drop out of top 4. They lack the depth to play these many games in such a short duration of time.
The last time they played 6 games in a matter of a month (13 Dec- 13 Jan (and I'm excluding the FA Cup)), was last Christmas, when they picked 7 points and they had all their players available except Vardy for a game or two.

 

[bosnian_red]

I'm expecting something similar to the below. I think in our case we should be able to afford a loss along the way but only 1 loss. Beyond that it pretty much needs to be maximum points.

For us I think Palace away and Leicester away are the biggest banana skins and I've tried to be positive with other sides in the race as a sort of worst case scenario. A large part of this is the assumption Bruno and Pogba are on the pitch from now on.

I don't think Leicester will be caught but they will drop points and may pick up a loss on the way but I haven't planned for that.

Chelsea I cannot see stringing more than two wins on the trot as they have difficult away fixtures lots of London derby scenarios and City and Liverpool left to play. Pretty much the worst scenario for them to play the best two sides, derbies etc. Only Norwich is an easy game (in theory).

Wolves have a tougher run than us too. Some seem guaranteed 3 pointers but Arsenal, Sheffield, Everton and Chelsea I think will give them a hard time.

I do think we'll get the most points out of the 4 sides over the next few games as our side is much improved with Bruno and Pogba whereas the other teams haven't really benefited from new or returning players.

TEAM	Leicester - P54 GD30​	Chelsea - P51 GD13​	United P46 GD14​	Wolves P46 GD9​
	H - Brighton	H - Man City	H - Sheffield	H - Bournemouth
	A - Everton	A - West Ham	A - Brighton	A - Villa
	H - Palace	H - Watford	H - Bournemouth	H - Arsenal
	A - Arsenal	A - Palace	A - Villa	A - Sheffield
	A - Bournemouth	A - Sheffield	H - Southampton	H - Everton
	H - Sheffield	H - Norwich	A - Palace	A - Burnley
	A - Spurs	A - Liverpool	H - West Ham	H - Palace
	H - United	H - Wolves	A - Leicester	A - Chelsea
Exp Points	14	12	20	15
Exp Final Total	68	64	66	61

Leicester definitely won't be unbeaten, but I also think you're giving too much credit to Sheffield. They'll struggle IMO. Think Chelsea gets to 66, Leicester around 67, and Wolves around 63 (United at 66 too). Will be tight regardless.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I'm expecting something similar to the below. I think in our case we should be able to afford a loss along the way but only 1 loss. Beyond that it pretty much needs to be maximum points.

For us I think Palace away and Leicester away are the biggest banana skins and I've tried to be positive with other sides in the race as a sort of worst case scenario. A large part of this is the assumption Bruno and Pogba are on the pitch from now on.

I don't think Leicester will be caught but they will drop points and may pick up a loss on the way but I haven't planned for that.

Chelsea I cannot see stringing more than two wins on the trot as they have difficult away fixtures lots of London derby scenarios and City and Liverpool left to play. Pretty much the worst scenario for them to play the best two sides, derbies etc. Only Norwich is an easy game (in theory).

Wolves have a tougher run than us too. Some seem guaranteed 3 pointers but Arsenal, Sheffield, Everton and Chelsea I think will give them a hard time.

I do think we'll get the most points out of the 4 sides over the next few games as our side is much improved with Bruno and Pogba whereas the other teams haven't really benefited from new or returning players.

TEAM	Leicester - P54 GD30​	Chelsea - P51 GD13​	United P46 GD14​	Wolves P46 GD9​
	H - Brighton	H - Man City	H - Sheffield	H - Bournemouth
	A - Everton	A - West Ham	A - Brighton	A - Villa
	H - Palace	H - Watford	H - Bournemouth	H - Arsenal
	A - Arsenal	A - Palace	A - Villa	A - Sheffield
	A - Bournemouth	A - Sheffield	H - Southampton	H - Everton
	H - Sheffield	H - Norwich	A - Palace	A - Burnley
	A - Spurs	A - Liverpool	H - West Ham	H - Palace
	H - United	H - Wolves	A - Leicester	A - Chelsea
Exp Points	14	12	20	15
Exp Final Total	68	64	66	61

We have the easier fixtures. Thought it was wolves with the way people are becoming wary of them

 

[Havak]

It's going to be incredibly close. Chelsea has a couple of hard games on paper, but are Liverpool and Man City going to be that bothered considering they're safely 1st and 2nd? I think Chelsea probably only need five wins from the remaining eight games to do it. Leicester maybe only four, as I don't see us going and winning 7/8 despite our fixtures.

We'll do well to win six games and maybe sneak the others as draws or one draw and a loss. So, that's 19-20 points I'd fancy us to get if we can keep playing well and being clinical like pre-lockdown. However, as it stands I fancy us to put Sheffield United to the sword and still outperform Wolves/Spurs over the remaining games, so they aren't getting past us. We will finish where we are at worst, but hopefully Leicester and/or Chelsea slip up by more than a couple of bad results.

If Cheslea can get 5W 1D 2L then I'd be surprised if they don't finish in the top four. Similar for Leicester, I think they could get away with 4W 2D 2L. Maybe I'm overrating Leicester and Chelsea a bit, but I think they're more than capable of getting to 68 Points each, while I don't fancy us to get to our maximum of 70.

Chelsea 68
Leicester 68
Man Utd 66

Despite Leicester's big lead on us, I could actually see it coming down to a final day shoot-out for 4th with ourselves and Leicester as well if they have a bit of a rough time during the run-in.

 

[croadyman]

Looking at the points Liverpool can only take 16/18 points in order for them to still be chasing the points record when Chelsea go there.

 

[Adam-Utd]

It's going to be incredibly close. Chelsea has a couple of hard games on paper, but are Liverpool and Man City going to be that bothered considering they're safely 1st and 2nd? I think Chelsea probably only need five wins from the remaining eight games to do it. Leicester maybe only four, as I don't see us going and winning 7/8 despite our fixtures.

We'll do well to win six games and maybe sneak the others as draws or one draw and a loss. So, that's 19-20 points I'd fancy us to get if we can keep playing well and being clinical like pre-lockdown. However, as it stands I fancy us to put Sheffield United to the sword and still outperform Wolves/Spurs over the remaining games, so they aren't getting past us. We will finish where we are at worst, but hopefully Leicester and/or Chelsea slip up by more than a couple of bad results.

If Cheslea can get 5W 1D 2L then I'd be surprised if they don't finish in the top four. Similar for Leicester, I think they could get away with 4W 2D 2L. Maybe I'm overrating Leicester and Chelsea a bit, but I think they're more than capable of getting to 68 Points each, while I don't fancy us to get to our maximum of 70.

Chelsea 68
Leicester 68
Man Utd 66

Despite Leicester's big lead on us, I could actually see it coming down to a final day shoot-out for 4th with ourselves and Leicester as well if they have a bit of a rough time during the run-in.

Luckily Klopp/Guardiola don't seem like the type to get complacent and give away wins for no reason, but they might end up playing some 2nd stringers which won't help.

I think we just need to make sure we finish 5th and then fingers crossed City get banned.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Leicester definitely won't be unbeaten, but I also think you're giving too much credit to Sheffield. They'll struggle IMO. Think Chelsea gets to 66, Leicester around 67, and Wolves around 63 (United at 66 too). Will be tight regardless.

I alluded to this in the post. Everything is speculation but I tried to be pessimistic on our behalf. I don’t see us losing many games with Bruno and Pogba I really think everyone is going to be close to 67 points and GD could well be the difference between us and Chelsea.

I’m confident Wolves haven’t got enough to leapfrog us.

We have the easier fixtures. Thought it was wolves with the way people are becoming wary of them

Definitely we have the easiest run in. There isn’t a game of ours left that I look at and think I can’t see us potentially winning.

 

[Mark_Barca]

Chelsea will get more than 1 point in their last two games. Liverpool will have the title won and can see Klopp resting a few. Wolves at home to guarentee CL football? 3 points in my view.