I don't know which people you are talking to but they seem clueless.
It’s not a notion, it’s a fact. Edwards, Foulkes, Charlton, Best, Hughes, Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Neville, Ronaldo, Pogba, Rashford, Lingard, Greenwood, McTominay etc, etc and we’re not even getting into the likes of Fletcher or Evans who have gone on to have good club and international careers.
This gem here?
A "minor exaggeration" made before those guys turned up. Details..
And United climbed back up the ladder and worked their asses off after the Munich air disaster.
So the likes of Barcelona, United and Arsenal should be blamed instead? Three clubs who are part of a superior youth set up within their country compared to Germany currently?
Of course. You think Zorc is instructing Dembele to do all his BS via phone?
How do you measure this?
You measure it by the claim that is made by the club of being a stepping stone. Apart from Lewandowski who else has stepped up? It seems the claim that BVB develop players for bigger and better things is simply not true.. Especially when the NT coach also points to dwindling standards in the youth coaching in Germany.
In what way is Dortmund the perfect place to develop if they're the stepping stone to great things that never come? Is their training set up so uniquely perfect that players can't ever be expected to perform anywhere else?
You may have watched some of his games for Birmingham and you'd have noticed that he was worthy of it, not just about money
That's not a "Bundesliga defense corps". If you were to post in a German forum and would read so much bullshit about the EPL, you'd feel the same urge in your fingertips to correct those people.
I want Bellingham at United because he has huge potential but if we don't sign him then we still have alot to look forward to as far as youth potential goes. Mejbri according to some reports; was seriously under consideration for a first team role before we signed Fernandes.
Duncan Edwards played in the 50s, mate. Those are great names but you're referring a time period of almost 70 years and you included Jesse Lingard and Scott McTominay. I mean, you realize yourself that the names towards the end of your list pale against the likes of Best, Cristiano, Charlton, Edwards, etc. Admit it or not, but your talent developing has been underwhelming in recent years. Pogba, Martial and Rashford were expected to be better players than they are right now. A couple of pages ago, a United fan wrote a really on point post about that. If he wasn't a United fan, he would've probably got roasted by you guys but since he is one, he was more or less ignored instead:
It is what it is, you have to earn that reputation again.
Either that or you're so precious about any slight on your league that you all charge over to redress the balance.
Such a big fan that you don’t even know the number of teams in the league.
Nah, it's not about slights. It's the blatant ignorance that's triggering us. I mean, for me La Liga has been far and away the best league in the world up until ~2017/2018 and basically all the evidence supports this claim. Yet it would still be dumb for La Liga fans to doubt if the best players of the EPL have the class to make it in La Liga.
When you say the best league, you realise that means the league, right?
Such a big fan that you don’t even know the number of teams in the league.
You know, usually the quality of the league is dependent on the quality of the teams playing in it. And it's not like Atletico, Sevilla and the likes did nothing of note, did they?
You're not being fair here. I for one am not one of those fans.
Fair point. I'm not in Spanish speaking forums that often so I can't judge. Still, the ignorance I regularly understand in here makes it hard to shut up at times
BVB are arguably bayerns biggest rivals. Bayern simply cheery pick off them.
Exactly, agree with you about reputations having to be earned. For all we know, it might even be that this last year, United have worked better with young players than Dortmund (I don’t really have a clear opinion about that), but if so, it would still take some time to translate into reputation. You know Dortmund a lot better than I do. I know only about United that they currently have been fielding the youngest first eleven in the PL and I think EL, I know that we have fielded the most players from our own academy among all PL clubs this season, and I would think are bettered by few in that regard among, say, the top five clubs in the top five European leagues.
That's not accurate in any sense though. A team who wins the UCL (a knock out competition) doesn't automatically signify they have the best domestic competition. Ajax / Porto winning in recent years doesn't amount to Liga NOS / Eredivise superseding all levels of other respective leagues. Neither would it be viable if they won the competition repetitively. It shows that they were the best and most consistent amoungst the parameters of that given tournament.
I fecking realise that Duncan Edwards and Best were from the 50s and 60s...mate.
I for one enjoy reading posts from fans from other leagues/nations. It makes this forum a even better experience. And you as a Bayer Leverkusen fan also add to the knowledge and enjoyment alot of us get from this forum. We just have to rise above the tribalism that sometimes takes hold which ends up not benefitting anyone.Fair point. I'm not in Spanish speaking forums that often so I can't judge. Still, the ignorance I regularly understand in here makes it hard to shut up at times
Why did Barca and Real Madrid run away with the league. EPL is infinity more competitive that any other top league in Europe. Fact.
„More competitive“ is not „best“. But we‘ve had this discussion way too many times before. Anyways, can somebody please point me in the direction of the transfer thread for this 16 year old kid who snubbed United?
Did we get an answer from our German friends on this one?
In case of Pogba, I was rather referring to the expectations associated with his move for a record fee. Rashford was always considered a great talent and of course in comparison to players who had much hype but never turned up, they developed very well. However, as already mentioned I think Pogba was expected to do much better after his return and Rashford never really surpassed the stage in which he shows glimpses of what he could be capable of until now.
You're right of course, I was just nit picking a little. Still, there's the UEFA five year evaluation which IMO is the best metric out there to compare the relative strength of each league. And in that respect, La Liga is heads and shoulders above everyone else for as long as I can remember. The EPL even had a very rough patch in which it was surpassed by the Bundesliga up until 2017 I believe. So yeah, competitiveness is obviously important but I think people have been a little bit misguided by the fact that Barcelona and Madrid steamrolled their leagues. Now that the EPL finally has teams which are (almost) on eye level with these two giants in the past, we see that it is dominated just as clearly as La Liga has been. So if you ask me, the top three used to be far better in La Liga overall, the top 6 however was better in England but not by the same margin. It's up to you what you prefer but I think the five year evaluation during the last two decades gives a rather clear implication how a giant La Liga/EPL hybrid would turn out.
What has that to do with Leverkusen and Dortmund? You're trying to be quick-witted because you're running out of arguments. And I'm sorry, but Martial was the most expensive teenager in history, people were obviously hoping for a top 10 player in the world back then. And rightly so because he's got everything it takes. The same goes for Pogba who was signed for a world record fee. I think you're the one "talking out of your arse".
You mean the league in which the designated champion is about to annihilate the points total record of every major European league so far? That's a fact in your opinion?
That's interesting and of course very impressive. Still, I think you have to understand that history isn't as important to other people as you. If you take a look at the last five years or so, Dortmund was better at developing young players than you. And if I was a young player or his agent and would have to make a choice which club is the best for my development, I'd go with the impressions of the last five years over those over the span of 70 years.
It's not history mate. It's still happening now! The record is still going.
I understand that but huge part of that record still is history because for a young player, it is not relevant if United was good at developing young talents 20+ years ago. Exemplarily, not too long ago Barcelona was THE team in the world for youth development and Guardiola was the coach popular for trusting academy graduates. That doesn't stand anymore. As of now, few would reccomend young players to move to City or Barcelona since they prefer trusting experienced players, currently. And Dortmund is recently in a league of their own in terms of talent development and that recent reputation surpasses yours of the last 5-10 years, I think. I mean, throughout the last 10 years, one of the hottest prospects in the world was at Dortmund, constantly. Götze, Dembele, Sancho, Haaland and Reyna, Moukoko and Bellingham are already lined up. That's unique.
Jesus, a real rage read that.
All poached / tapped up with an eye on making a profit. Gotze couldn't wait to get out the place and fcuked em over as soon as he could.
So who leaves Dortmund there a better player?
