India politics thread

VidaRed

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India's given up the Galwan Valley without any sort of a retaliation. It's mental how Modi's people will spin this. I guess they won't be able to read the statement about the buffer zone being on India's side of the LAC. And the truth is they're powerless to stop China encroaching further should they(China) decide to do so.
He's already spun it. Modi went to ladhak and the chinese retreated out of fear.

The public doesn't give a flying feck about the finer details. The media is entirely bent, not one channel has the guts to say India has lost control of its own territory.

India is not powerless to stop china, the reality is that modi is scared that if on the off chance china rolls India he'd lose the next election. His election is more important than India protecting its territorial sovereignty.
 

VidaRed

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Bhakts abused this guy as an anti-national, ignoring the fact that he was the officer who re-captured tiger hill from pakistani troops during the kargil war. His "crime" was to say that the chinese have encroached Indian territory. You couldn't make this shit up!
 

RedDevil@84

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The number of people who are doing ha ha hee hee on this news is insane. So many so called "proud Hindus" are so happy that poor people working in Muslim nations are losing their jobs. Partly because many of workers are Muslims, poor and their lives have prospered somewhat because of high conversion rates. And now they will be jobless.
 

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Did China declare war to invade and land grab and build reinforcements?

The only one daydreaming is our Dear Leader, of all the foreign trips he could be making if covid wasn't a thing.
This is completely illogical so I won't bother to respond.
 

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India's given up the Galwan Valley without any sort of a retaliation. It's mental how Modi's people will spin this. I guess they won't be able to read the statement about the buffer zone being on India's side of the LAC. And the truth is they're powerless to stop China encroaching further should they(China) decide to do so.
Not just Galwan, but Pangong and areas in Dogra and the Depsang plains. Truth is that we are outspent outsmarted and outgunned. Only a blitzkrieg sort of pushback a month or so back could have worked. The moment India allowed China to consolidate, it was fait accompli.

Sadly this sort of acquiescence towards China is what multiple administrations have done, nothing new.
 

VidaRed

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China may win, without fighting
Instead of insisting on status quo ante, India has helped create a new status quo. Beijing is smiling



China’s territorial revisionism has been unrelenting. Under Mao Zedong, China more than doubled its size by annexing Tibet and Xinjiang, making it the world’s fourth- largest country in area. Under Xi Jinping, China’s expansionism increasingly threatens its neighbours, big and small. Xi’s regime has just opened a new territorial front against one of the world’s smallest countries, Bhutan, by disputing its eastern borders.

In this light, the outcome of China’s aggression against India will have an important bearing on Asian security. If the current India-China military disengagement ends up like the 2017 Doklam disengagement in making China the clear winner, an emboldened Xi regime will likely become a greater threat to neighbours.

China’s strategy after its disastrous 1979 invasion of Vietnam has been to win without fighting. Deception, concealment and surprise have driven China’s repeated use of force — from seizing the Johnson Reef in 1988 and the Mischief Reef in 1995 to occupying the Scarborough Shoal in 2012 and now vantage locations in Ladakh. It has changed the South China Sea’s geopolitical map without firing a shot or incurring any international costs.

China has displayed its art of deception even in its disengagement process with India. The first accord of June 6 to disengage collapsed after the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) erected structures on Indian territory and then ambushed and killed Indian Army men on verification patrol. The disengagement process restarted after Prime Minister (PM) Narendra Modi seemed to let China off the hook with his June 19 speech at the all-party meeting. But the fresh process became a ruse for PLA to encroach on two new Indian areas — the Depsang Y-Junction; and the Galwan Valley site of the ambush killings.

India and China are now in their third disengagement series. But while the previous two abortive rounds followed military-level talks, the latest cycle is being driven politically. We now know that Modi’s July 3 Ladakh visit, and his tough words there, were essentially designed to create domestic political space for his government to seek de-escalation with China. Barely 48 hours after his visit, India and China hammered out a disengagement deal.

Will the latest deal stick? Having encroached on key areas that overlook India’s defences, PLA is sitting pretty. A full return to status quo ante as sought by India seems remote, thanks to India’s own mixed signals. Moreover, by encroaching on additional areas behind the previous disengagement facade, China has armed itself with greater leverage to impose a revised status quo, including by applying the precept that “possession is nine-tenths of the law”.

Disengagement (pullback of rival forces from close proximity), if not de-escalation (ending hostilities through demobilisation of forces), meshes well with China’s interest in presenting India a fait accompli. Removing the threat of an Indian counteroffensive or Indian tit-for-tat land grab will help China win without fighting.

This explains why China has accepted disengagement — but on its terms. This is illustrated in the Galwan Valley, where India has pulled back from its own territory and created a “buffer zone” on its side of the Line of Actual Control (LAC). These steps, though temporary, create a new, China-advantageous status quo that PLA could seek to enforce because it keeps India out of China’s newly-claimed zone — the Galwan Valley.


The risk that, like at Doklam, the current disengagement may not end well for India is high. Instead of demonstrating strength and resolve, India has displayed zeal to end the stand-off, despite its armed forces being mobilised for possible war.

At a time when the international environment is beginning to turn against China, India could have prolonged the stand-off until winter to compel restoration of status quo ante. But, instead, it has kicked status quo ante down the road and settled merely for disengagement. This allows China to hold on its core territorial gains and trade the marginal occupied territories for Indian concessions, as part of its well-known “advance 10 miles and retreat six miles” strategy.

Far from imposing military costs, India has shied away even from trade actions against the aggressor, as if to preserve the option of another Modi-Xi summit. India’s steps so far (banning Chinese mobile apps and announcing an intent to restrict Chinese investment in some areas) have been designed to assuage public anger at home, but without imposing substantive costs on Beijing or damaging bilateral relations.

In 1967, a weak India, while recovering from the 1962 and 1965 wars, gave China a bloody nose. But in 2017 and again now, after its soldiers displayed extraordinary bravery in tackling China’s aggression, a nuclear-armed India hastily sought disengagement. Its decision-makers remain loath to fundamentally change the China policy even when faced with aggression.

Bite by bite, China has been nibbling away at India’s borderlands, even as successive Indian PMs have sought to appease it. When political calculations trump military factors and a nation lives by empty rhetoric, it can win neither war nor peace.

The present path risks locking India in a “no war, no peace” situation with China and imposing mounting security costs. This path aids China’s time-tested strategy of attrition, friction and containment to harass, encumber, encircle, deceive and weigh India down.

If India wants Himalayan peace, it must make China pay for its aggression to help create a deterrent effect. The present aggression — the most serious since the 1960s — resulted from India letting China off the hook too easily in 2017, allowing it to capture Doklam. And if China emerges the winner from the current crisis, its next aggression could be worse. Only a chastened China saddled with high costs and loss of face will rein in its aggressive expansionism.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/colu...ut-fighting/story-4M3g3EhhwmYlxKRMxc7GUN.html
 

Spoony

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Not just Galwan, but Pangong and areas in Dogra and the Depsang plains. Truth is that we are outspent outsmarted and outgunned. Only a blitzkrieg sort of pushback a month or so back could have worked. The moment India allowed China to consolidate, it was fait accompli.

Sadly this sort of acquiescence towards China is what multiple administrations have done, nothing new.

How much control have China got around Pangong and Depsang plains? Shifting India to the west of Shyok River is already a huge victory for them.
 

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How much control have China got around Pangong and Depsang plains? Shifting India to the west of Shyok River is already a huge victory for them.
I dont think they pushed ITBP to west of the Shyok river, but rather PLA got control to monitor the Shyok valley.

The Galwan valley merges into the Shyok valley. So if someone can hold the bend in the Galwan river where it drains towards the Shyok, the entire valley is open to them. That is what China has done.

Now as part of the disengagement apparently both sides are pulling back to create a 3km wide buffer zone. This de facto means India has given up on some patrolling. I don't like this honestly but its implications will be clearer next year around summer when troops from both countries try to resume normal patrols.

Regarding Depsang again I have no clue but it will continue to be a friction till DSDBO road is completed me thinks.

The bigger worry now is Pangong Tso which is already 65% occupied by China and again here they have taken the bend of the lake ie fingers 4-8 area. The clash area of 2017 is now occupied by them. The horizontal bend which China has now taken gives them view of our areas. The vertical bend anyway they control and it leads towards the Khurnak fort and eventually the Xinjiang Tibet highway. So right now they control both bends in the lake. Not a good thing strategically for India. I'm not sure if this area will return to status quo ante.
 

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Seems like Yogi has been taking lessons from Shah on how to deal with inconvenient people :lol:
 

MDFC Manager

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They need better script writers though.
I see your point but this is already perfect. Bhakts will blindly believe the tale, whereas those who question it will be called traitors and anti nationals, and lastly all secrets have gone with the dead man. Win win win situation
 

RedDevil@84

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I see your point but this is already perfect. Bhakts will blindly believe the tale, whereas those who question it will be called traitors and anti nationals, and lastly all secrets have gone with the dead man. Win win win situation
Wonder what happens to the policemen who helped the gangster kill other cops. Will they be encountered too?
 

Suv666

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Yogi can shoot a guy in the face on camera and bhakts still wont care.
 

Nickelodeon

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The law and order in the situation is so grim. So is social harmony, economic projection, the fight against covid, freedom of speech, freedom of media. The masks have well and truly come off now. I can understand uneducated people misguided in the name of religion but I cannot believe how educated people do not feel the need to ask a single question to the govt.

It is getting increasingly depressing. Despite all the BLM protest in US, I look at them with insane jealousy that at least the issue is being recognized and protested against. In India, people not only don't give a feck, but are supporting the cops/politicians who carry out these atrocities. And it is getting worse and dark everyday.
 

VidaRed

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Yogi can shoot a guy in the face on camera* and bhakts still wont care.
*on live tv.

They definitely care, thing is they like it. However, if the same thing was done by akhilesh then these same people would term it as jungle raj or gunda raj. The differentiating factor is the person ordering it rather than the act itself. Same logic applies elsewhere too, if manmohan had bungled ladhak like modi has currently then mms would have been verbally lynched across the mainstream media and the bjp would have hit the streets, the people claiming "no one has intruded" would be abusing mms day in and day out as an anti-national.

I have no doubt that this vikas dubey was killed to keep his mouth shut. In a court case he could have spilled beans on many politicians including those in power. He apparantly killed a minister inside a police station and still got away and this doesn't happen unless one has connections with the powers that be.
 
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berbatrick

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Jayaraj and Fenix killings: Torture, intimidation, encounters are an old Tamil Nadu police tradition

The recent intimidation by the police of a magistrate sent by the high court to investigate the custodial killings of a father and son in Thoothukudi district, brings back memories of similar menacing conduct by the same force.

In 1982, the late VM Tarkunde, retired high court judge, senior Supreme Court lawyer and renowned human rights campaigner, led a team to investigate the "encounter" killings of 23 youth between August 1980 and October 1982, 12 of them Dalits. He and his team, which included the famous Hyderabad lawyer KG Kannabiran, were attacked by the police and made to leave. Tarkunde was then 72.

Tarkunde’s was the second team to attempt an independent investigation into the way the Tamil Nadu police were dealing with Naxalites in the districts of Dharmapuri and North Arcot. In these backward districts, farm labour was paid at the rate of Rs 2-3.50 for a day, forcing them to take loans and end up as bonded labour. Scheduled Castes were not allowed to wear slippers when they entered a "high caste" area. With police invariably backing the landlords, a Naxalite movement was born.

The response of the then chief minister, MG Ramachandran, was to give the police a free hand to crush it. Abductions, arbitrary arrests of suspected Naxalites, and unbelievable police torture (nailing a horse shoe to the detenue’s feet), became the norm. Anyone who questioned the State and the police, be they lawyers, journalists or even striking government employees, was arrested. The charge of sedition was freely applied, even against a 13-year-old.

A similar fate was meted out to the first fact-finding team which landed up in Tiruppattur town in October 1980, with one difference - the goons doing the roughing up were the police themselves.
...

Crushing Naxalites wasn't the only field where Devaram was given a free hand. As Madras Police Commissioner, he was asked by MGR to clear the Marina Beach of fishermen. The directive was, as expected, opposed by fishermen who had been there for years. In an interview given to the Asian College of Journalism’s magazine in January this year, the retired officer described how he managed the difficult situation. "Actually, people leave constables to handle the situation, but I did not want to do that. I am a sharp shooter. So I went out into the field and shot down 3 leaders of the protest. The crowd disappeared then and there."

https://www.firstpost.com/india/jay...-old-tamil-nadu-police-tradition-8583301.html
 

devips

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This thread is so depressing. India is no longer a country to be proud of.
 

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*on live tv.

They definitely care, thing is they like it. However, if the same thing was done by akhilesh then these same people would term it as jungle raj or gunda raj. The differentiating factor is the person ordering it rather than the act itself. Same logic applies elsewhere too, if manmohan had bungled ladhak like modi has currently then mms would have been verbally lynched across the mainstream media and the bjp would have hit the streets, the people claiming "no one has intruded" would be abusing mms day in and day out as an anti-national.

I have no doubt that this vikas dubey was killed to keep his mouth shut. In a court case he could have spilled beans on many politicians including those in power. He apparantly killed a minister inside a police station and still got away and this doesn't happen unless one has connections with the powers that be.
That happened in 2001. To all the posters claiming lawlessness and all that stuff, do look up who was in power in UP since 2001 onwards.

Seriously guys, I get it that this is an extra judicial killing and likely that politicians and police will have been involved.

But take off your blinkers for a minute. The world suddenly didn't change post 2014. Its always been bad. UP has always had a terrible law and order situation. By just making this a BJP and bhakt issue you're becoming parodies of what you abhor.
 

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This thread is so depressing. India is no longer a country to be proud of.
No that is not the case. There are good and there are bad stuff in the country. The posts on here are from those with a selective political bias. India was not and never will be a singular society. It is up to you to see the plurality of views and find good or bad in them
 

Suv666

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That happened in 2001. To all the posters claiming lawlessness and all that stuff, do look up who was in power in UP since 2001 onwards.

Seriously guys, I get it that this is an extra judicial killing and likely that politicians and police will have been involved.

But take off your blinkers for a minute. The world suddenly didn't change post 2014. Its always been bad. UP has always had a terrible law and order situation. By just making this a BJP and bhakt issue you're becoming parodies of what you abhor.
What's changed is back then when shit like this happened the media and the public denounced the govt in power. Not egg it on.
 

RedDevil@84

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This thread is so depressing. India is no longer a country to be proud of.
This is an Indian politics thread. So it will highlight criticism against the Indian govt. Doesn't necessarily mean, this is all that is there in India.

Personally, I find the whole concept of being proud a bit over the top. You get born in a nation by chance. Don't really see a need to be proud about it. But anyways, that is another discussion
 

RedDevil@84

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The posts on here are from those with a selective political bias
In a politics thread, one would expect criticism. Doesn't necessarily mean political bias. There are loads of people who were BJP supporters when Vajpayee was PM and are now against BJP.