Well if our manager was smart we could have rested players on Sunday. But in the end he benched a few players and decided to play them, which meant he ended up doing nothing.
Tired....again
- Thread starter RedStarUnited
- Start date
I think this chronic tiredness we suffer from is an overused excuse that hides the fact that we are not actually that good , no other set of supporters obsess and go go on about it as much as we do when we have a bad performance , we spent hundreds of millions assembling a squad dwarfing the spend of most other clubs and yet we can't play a few games in a short space of time after a three month lay off. Give a player an excuse not to perform and he will take it.
I think we are mentally weak , the results over the last few season have shown that to be true, many of players are also just sub standard for where we want to be.
We may still limp over the line on Sunday , but does anyone think we are a serious CL team or a serous title contender next season. Right now with the squad we have that is just delusional talk. We need to add a lot more quality , and I think everyone at the club probably knows that.
I think we are mentally weak , the results over the last few season have shown that to be true, many of players are also just sub standard for where we want to be.
We may still limp over the line on Sunday , but does anyone think we are a serious CL team or a serous title contender next season. Right now with the squad we have that is just delusional talk. We need to add a lot more quality , and I think everyone at the club probably knows that.
I don't think it's tiredness.
I think we came back after the break and the standard of play from most teams was really poor. Hence why teams that were leaving us in their dust were lagging so much and opened up the door. We were winning fans against teams that were there for the taking.
I think the opening of the Villa game was the first sign of decline. They were resolute but then we got a penalty which changed everything. Then we had more games playing like that, which resulted in dropped points vs Southampton, loss vs Chelsea and tonight. Even against Palace we looked garbage.
This isn't tiredness. Its us still struggling against teams that either press well or park the bus well.
People are hiding behind poor squad options but the likes of McTominay, Fred, James, Ighalo have all proven that they can do a job and should be good enough to play against some of these teams. If fitness was an issue then they'd have featured more.
I think we came back after the break and the standard of play from most teams was really poor. Hence why teams that were leaving us in their dust were lagging so much and opened up the door. We were winning fans against teams that were there for the taking.
I think the opening of the Villa game was the first sign of decline. They were resolute but then we got a penalty which changed everything. Then we had more games playing like that, which resulted in dropped points vs Southampton, loss vs Chelsea and tonight. Even against Palace we looked garbage.
This isn't tiredness. Its us still struggling against teams that either press well or park the bus well.
People are hiding behind poor squad options but the likes of McTominay, Fred, James, Ighalo have all proven that they can do a job and should be good enough to play against some of these teams. If fitness was an issue then they'd have featured more.
Bournemouth, we started piss poor too. Our attack blew them away.
Norwich in the quarter finals, we were awful too.
Hd
but not every team has something to play for in every single match with the pressure on. Of those teams, havnt we got the best record in this run in?
I really don’t get this.
If West Ham and Southampton come to Old Trafford with nothing to play then we should be beating them easily.
I bet you would be saying the same if West Ham had something to play for.
I find it funny because if Chelsea were playing Southampton or West Ham at home on final day these exact same people would moan they playing teams with nothing to play for.
They’d probably still moan saying Wolves needed the victory and got caught out.
Ok sorry, I’ll rephrase it. Havnt we got the best record in the league since the restart and this run in?
I'd forgot about these games but you're right. It further disputes this idea that we're tired.
Its not a fitness problem, its a poor squad managment problem. Ole doesnt have a working system in which he can alternate players.
We depend on the full XI starters to be fit or we drop massively, thats on Ole. No team should be in such a weak position.
We depend on the full XI starters to be fit or we drop massively, thats on Ole. No team should be in such a weak position.
What’s everyone else's excuse?
This a well, as soon as we are close to secure things we shit on ourselved. 20 games unbeaten blabla etc we are winless in the last 3.
If we feck up on sunday the full picture will look as if we needed 3 freaking points from the last 3 games and managed to feck it up after on a hot streak.
To be able to reach top 4, he topped the team a lot. There was a streak of great results and great football. And now we have a working chance at CL football. Do you think that would be the case if the team was rotated a lot during June/July? I dont. Actually we are unbeaten in the League in that period. since jan actually..
I mean this is eerily similar to last season's collapse.
I don't think our squad options are great, but the coaching staff surely should know when a player is huffing and puffing on the field and needs a rest.
I don't think our squad options are great, but the coaching staff surely should know when a player is huffing and puffing on the field and needs a rest.
It’s when the pressure ramps up the team crumbles to be honest. Last season we went into the top 4 after beating Southampton and then barely won another match.
This season we were in the top 4 when beating Southampton and within that game we went to shit and haven’t been the same since. Be very glad we were so lucky in that Palace game because that win is looking massive right now. It’s who can bottle it least on Sunday.
We need squad depth and we need leadership in midfield because Pogba is just a nightmare during periods like this.
This season we were in the top 4 when beating Southampton and within that game we went to shit and haven’t been the same since. Be very glad we were so lucky in that Palace game because that win is looking massive right now. It’s who can bottle it least on Sunday.
We need squad depth and we need leadership in midfield because Pogba is just a nightmare during periods like this.
Its the managers job to rotate the squad, would we have got the same results? We dont know. Maybe we would have dropped some points but would get the three points instead of draws against southampton and west ham? We'll never know.
But being fatigued in the last games is totally on him, last season it was the same. With an extra muscular injuries. Two seasons in a row show he's not rotating the squad properly and is running the players to the ground.
It's fatigue from playing too much in a short period of time. The players look absolutely fecked. Squad management can be questioned but it's clear there's a massive drop in quality from our first XI to our subs, so it was always going to be a difficult balancing act. We've exasperated the crazy amount of playing with the lack of rotation. I don't think people realise how rare it is to play this frequently.
Comparing PL games 30-37 i.e the ones we've played post lockdown with previous season
PL Last season: 8 games in 57 days. 8/24 points.
PL This season: 8 games in 34 days 18/24 points.
Including cup games between these dates
Last season: (FA cup vs Wolves, Barca home/away) 11 games in 57 days
This season: (2 FA cup games) 10 games in 34 days
Another busy season for reference: 2007/08: 12 games in 46 days
I can't be bothered finding out how many different players have featured and/or their minutes but I'd be shocked if there wasn't more variety in the minutes last year, even with the extra 2 subs allowed.
Comparing PL games 30-37 i.e the ones we've played post lockdown with previous season
PL Last season: 8 games in 57 days. 8/24 points.
PL This season: 8 games in 34 days 18/24 points.
Including cup games between these dates
Last season: (FA cup vs Wolves, Barca home/away) 11 games in 57 days
This season: (2 FA cup games) 10 games in 34 days
Another busy season for reference: 2007/08: 12 games in 46 days
I can't be bothered finding out how many different players have featured and/or their minutes but I'd be shocked if there wasn't more variety in the minutes last year, even with the extra 2 subs allowed.
Practically the same 11, playing week in week out, what do you expect?
Because it’s been painfully obvious to everyone watching that overplaying them in every game and not rotating is leading to fatigue, injuries and decrease in performance.
It's probably a lot harder to have jam packed schedule at the end, then at the beginning as you're fresher in the beginning.
I'm probably expecting too much, but I find it hard to believe they're all absolutely goosed after running what amounts to a few 10ks a week for a couple of months. I know there's more to it than just running, but they're meant to be professional athletes right?
I mean I don't find it hard to believe as it's us, but should that be the case?
I mean I don't find it hard to believe as it's us, but should that be the case?
That they are tired is on Ole. We had many opportunities to rotate the players, also we had pretty easy opponents up until the Southampton game.
We were good against Sheffield during the opening simply because we had more game time, thereafter we are relying on some lucky early goals, mistakes, or simply ugly win like Palace. Now the "normal" come back to us. Just see how we survive this Sunday.
How do the minutes of Bruno/Pogba/Matic compare with other midfielders? Have they played that much more?
I'm tired Robbie
Heh. Over the entire season no not even close. But over the past twelvish games yes Bruno and Pogba have been played on a pace to top the league in minutes played over a season.
Fitness problem does not solve in a season though. And C 19 break might make it worse. At least for top sides who are still in more than 1 competition. Almost all top teams looked tired to me and we are probably team that lose the least or there of points after the break.
We look fitter this season than the last in general.
Some comments in here are truly insane. With these comments you wonder how these morons got promoted to full member. We are 3rd, maybe not the best in term of points but saying we are midtable is idiotic and anyone who said that need to get their brain checked. I hope you are being sarcastic
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This is the absolute truth. MUFC got in the restart with the responsability of being the "post covid champion". The pressure is immense, despite our excellent results we still had to rely heavily on Leicester and Chelsea to drop a lot of points to have a chance in the end. And here we are, one fixture left, everything to play for, pressure will be insane in both sides.
Feels like an UCL final to me.
The big mistake was not playing the B squad vs Chelsea. Stupid romantism over the FA could cost us the spot.
ManUtd: 10 days - 4 games - 3 days gap for next game
ManCity: 11 days - 4 games - 4 days gap for next game
Chelsea: 12 days - 4 games - 3 days gap for next game
Leicester: 13 days - 4 games - 6 days gap for next game
Liverpool: 15 days - 4 games - 3 days gap for next game
Schedule like this, poor depth and also poor use of subs means our squad is exhausted. Need one last big effort before a 15 days break.
ManCity: 11 days - 4 games - 4 days gap for next game
Chelsea: 12 days - 4 games - 3 days gap for next game
Leicester: 13 days - 4 games - 6 days gap for next game
Liverpool: 15 days - 4 games - 3 days gap for next game
Schedule like this, poor depth and also poor use of subs means our squad is exhausted. Need one last big effort before a 15 days break.
A lot of people get really upset about that post. I meant in terms of the quality of the league compared to years of the past. 3rd this year would get you 8th some other years which is midtable. That’s what I mean. Obviously we’re not literally a mid table team, but the quality of the league as a whole has dropped so much we are lucky to be in this position where despite what has seemed to be a very disappointing season could still end with us finishing in 3rd place.
I have no idea why understanding this seems to be beyond most people. We have no forwards to really replace our front 3 or someone who's remotely capable of replacing Bruno at 10.
Similarly, it's become clear over the last 3 matches how important Shaw is. Williams is just 19 and bound to be inconsistent.
Should have given the boot to them then. What's the purpose of a Lingard, Pereira, Mata or Dalot if you can't use them because they are shit. Out with them and in some new faces
Chelsea rotated a bit last night and lost.
United haven't rotated much in the league and haven't lost, the moment we did, the fa cup, we lost.
Who's injury is down to over playing?
Every team is in the same boat, we have played one more game than any other team.
Tiredness at this stage is just an excuse.
Squad depth is poor in the attack but Ole completely mismanaged the midfield. Before the break, we relied on McTominay and Fred, now after the restart he has 0 confidence in them. Yesterday our midfielders were barely running still he didn't do any subs.
He should have brought on McTominay, Fred to give some freshness to the team, even Lingard would have added so much.
The whole league is effin tired
No one has been on top of the game since the restart
Inconsistency across the board is quite clear. We have performed amongst the best after the restart. We're somehow 3rd heading in to a game against a horrible Leicester team, where a draw is enough
You people in here are absolutely mad
Every bad game this place erupts and goes batshit and I fear it'll be like this until we win the league at some point
No one has been on top of the game since the restart
Inconsistency across the board is quite clear. We have performed amongst the best after the restart. We're somehow 3rd heading in to a game against a horrible Leicester team, where a draw is enough
You people in here are absolutely mad
Every bad game this place erupts and goes batshit and I fear it'll be like this until we win the league at some point
I think the same way, really. Yes, they've had a ridiculous run of games in a short time, but these are young, super-fit men.
Any professionals here that can give some insight into how much impact 3 compared to 2 days rest actually makes?
Are they like 33% more fit or something? If so I'd think we have a ok chance.
Are they like 33% more fit or something? If so I'd think we have a ok chance.
4 games in 9 days and you lot wonder why we're tired. It's a minor miracle that we haven't succumbed to any muscle injuries during this time as well!
I agree in part. For example we really could have given Bruno fewer minutes, he looks gassed. We have enough midfield options, we could have put Pogba in at number 10 and played McTominay or Fred alongside Matic in the base of midfield. I don't think that would have resulted a major drop off in quality against the average teams we played.
However what's also true is that we came back from the break 5 points off 4th and 8 points behind Leicester. We really had no choice but to go for it. Obviously its hard to say how things would otherwise have been, but if we'd drawn 1 more game in this run we'd be in 5th, needing a win on Sunday to get top 4. If we'd drawn 2 games, we'd be out of the top 4 race. So it really was on a knife edge.