Alisson has been worse than De Gea for expected goals this season.
Should Liverpool replace him with Henderson?
Should Liverpool replace him with Henderson?
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Dean Henderson has to be our #1 next season? Poll added
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Nope.
Exactly. It beggars belief.
What are you even talking about. Liverpool is expected to concede 39.23 and they actually concede 32; we are expected to concede 37.30 and we actually concede 36. Alisson is doing much much better than de Gea, at least in this aspect.
He is? That's a good question.
Not true. Scroll down to the first graph.
He’s worse than De Gea unless Sky are lying?
https://www.skysports.com/football/...nce-is-a-massive-problem-says-jamie-carragher
Yup... Liverpool seem to be doing ok though this season?
Do you think maybe this expected goals stat needs to be taken with a pinch of salt?
So where is the narrative that Alisson needs to leave Liverpool? They’ll never be successful with such a poor goalkeeper based on XG surely?
Oh wait...
Oh wait...
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Surprised to see Nick Pope underperforming xG wise. Not surprised at all about Kepa.
Keep De Gea, bring Henderson back. If De Gea makes a mistake or three, start Henderson. Then it's Henderson's spot to lose. If he performs, he stays number 1.
Keep De Gea, bring Henderson back. If De Gea makes a mistake or three, start Henderson. Then it's Henderson's spot to lose. If he performs, he stays number 1.
It’s almost like saving most goals you should save is more important than saving ones you shouldn’t normally be able to?
In other words if you can generally stay close to positive great but it’s not the end of the world if not. Otherwise how have Liverpool won the league with such an inept GK? Calamity Alisson?
In other words if you can generally stay close to positive great but it’s not the end of the world if not. Otherwise how have Liverpool won the league with such an inept GK? Calamity Alisson?
I'd like to see the original source @BenitoSTARR . Not saying it's not true but I'm sceptical, it would be an incredible reversal since January. Although Liverpool have been poor recently defensively.
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It’s from Sky Sports... the link is above
Cannot believe you’re even skeptical of it
Just doesn’t suit the narrative but it’s true.
So should Alisson be replaced? He’s clearly past his peak and should be moved on for a better GK! However will Liverpool cope with such a calamitous individual?!
The link is above where? That's your personal imgur account isn't it? If it is true it is reflective on some terrible form late on because Allison was leading those stats in January by when Liverpool had effectively won the title. That said, why is that my 'agenda', if you were to accuse me of such an agenda in this thread it would be that Henderson deserves to challenge DDG for his place and that data reflects that opinion.It’s from Sky Sports... the link is above
Cannot believe you’re even skeptical of it
Just doesn’t suit the narrative but it’s true.
So should Alisson be replaced? He’s clearly past his peak and should be moved on for a better GK! However will Liverpool cope with such a calamitous individual?!
https://www.skysports.com/football/...nce-is-a-massive-problem-says-jamie-carragher
Was it really too hard to look a few posts above to see I’ve already linked this
How have Liverpool won the league if he’s been more negative than De Gea? We don’t need to swap out De Gea.
Was it really too hard to look a few posts above to see I’ve already linked this
How have Liverpool won the league if he’s been more negative than De Gea? We don’t need to swap out De Gea.
Pretty sure that is nonsense from Sky and a mistake, since everyone else has Alisson in the positive.https://www.skysports.com/football/...nce-is-a-massive-problem-says-jamie-carragher
Was it really too hard to look a few posts above to see I’ve already linked this
How have Liverpool won the league if he’s been more negative than De Gea? We don’t need to swap out De Gea.
We need to swap out De Gea. Your logic is massively flawed. It is like saying why should we play Martial when Liverpool won the league with Firmino, who has less goals. You want to improve everywhere and Liverpool have better fullbacks than we will ever have. That is why Bobby can be shit for a season, but our striker can't.
Denialism at it's best. hahaha
Show me his most recent data then that proves Sky is wrong not his Jan data.
They were posting this in more than one threads so I got a bit lost. I have responded to him in two threads. The problem is that it doesn't prove what they want it to prove. It doesn't mean much in the context of De Gea's decline to Manchester United because Allison's value to his team is multifaceted, whilst DDG is largley dependent on one particular aspect of goalkeeping for him to be considered a top keeper.
It is a curious reversal of form in shot-stopping from Allison though.
I can't argue with that. Haha.
I've been saying this for awhile. We need to be more moderate and less exaggerated. I wouldn't be surprised if the stats included second half of the season stats and that affected Allison's rating. Which I keep saying, we should include current performances to get a more accurate picture. The xG stats were probably also affected by Liverpool's dip in form after the break. If your team keeps exposing your keeper to free potshots at goal, your keeper's stats are going to nosedive.
And now they criticise using stats to make a point.
#shiftthegoalposts
The agenda here is clear as day and I will no longer waste my time.
Ive exposed the agenda for what it is my work here is done.
I reckon De Gea would have a much better XGA if he shifted the goal posts as much as you lot!
Not referring to you. The other guy. But if you're going to go with this argument, then I will have to include you as well. You'll have to justify such an assertion.
I know what you mean. I left the forum for a very long time before returning due to the lockdown.
That's a good shout. DDG is on big wages, we cant just flog him of somewhere. If he had a competition he would maybe up his form. Romero is not his competition it seems cause Ole is standing by David no matter what. But if he had a young, upcoming keeper waiting to jump instead of him that would wake hip up. Although I dont think it would mend his technical deffinciecies.
How do you rate DDG compared to Allison when it comes to aspects of goalkeeping apart from shot-stopping? Command of area; passing - long and short; sweeping, leadership and defensive organisation?
The point being that DDG is average at best in all those aspects (poor at many) whilst Allison excels at many.
This will never happen. Goalkeepers are just not switched enough to get the experience.
Henderson is currently in contention to be England's number one goalkeeper and he is playing pretty much every game for a Premier League club. There is no way he will throw all that away to potentially spend most of the next season on the bench. He is starting off with a major disadvantage at Manchester United: he will be on far less money than De Gea.
De Gea will be persisted with for longer because of the amount of his wage, even if he deteriorates even more than he has. Nobody will buy him now, so we will want to use him as much as possible before finally giving up. That 'giving up' will likely come to late for us to keep Henderson.
There is already talk of Chelsea wanting to sign him.
And how do you justify your assertion?
Another year at Sheffield United would be the safest option. This Emilio Alvarez situation could be a big contributor to his drop in form. De Gea has not been the same since his arrival and he seems to have left under strange circumstances and now all this coming out in the press.
I suspected that this would be the sum total of your of response. What would be your assessment of De Gea in those other aspects of goalkeeping?
You still have not answered my question.
Below is a pro coach‘s assessment of Allison before he signed for for Liverpool. Along with being a competent shot stopper he completed the most passes of any keeper in Serie A in that season, his long passing, like Ederson is especially noteworthy. He even registered an assist for Liverpool this season. His sweeper ability is also at the highest level. He registered 41 sweeping attempts in his last season in Serie A, the most in the league, 21 more than the next highest. It notes that he committed no direct big errors leading to goals In his last season in Serie A, a feat he has repeated so far this year in the Premier league which suggests top level concentration. It notes that like De Gea, his weaknesses is staying rooted to his line on set pieces, although the data for the PL suggest that he’s worked on this as only 4 keepers have successfully stopped more crosses coming in the box than him in the PL this season.
https://www.coachesvoice.com/premier-league-alisson-becker-jurgen-klopp-liverpool-salah/
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How do you think DeGea performs in those other aspects of being a keeper?
I’m a big Dave fan, he’s been heroic for us
I’ve genuinely spent time coaching gk and mentality is such a huge part of the game, more than any other for me because they are left alone in their thoughts.
I think he’s just tired/bored and needs to move to find the joy of goalkeeping again.
Schmiechal went through a similar phase and retired (from us anyway) as a result.
I personally think it would be a good time to switch, when your GK stops making the high % saves it’s a slippery slope.
Edwin was the best at always saving the “good” shots, he didn’t make as many outstanding saves like De Gea but he always saved the high % shots.
We need a new CB for me anyway so if we are building a new defence unit might as well bed the new cb and gk together
I’ve genuinely spent time coaching gk and mentality is such a huge part of the game, more than any other for me because they are left alone in their thoughts.
I think he’s just tired/bored and needs to move to find the joy of goalkeeping again.
Schmiechal went through a similar phase and retired (from us anyway) as a result.
I personally think it would be a good time to switch, when your GK stops making the high % saves it’s a slippery slope.
Edwin was the best at always saving the “good” shots, he didn’t make as many outstanding saves like De Gea but he always saved the high % shots.
We need a new CB for me anyway so if we are building a new defence unit might as well bed the new cb and gk together
Unrelated but when did we let Sam johnstone go? I was sure he is still our player, has 3 very solid seasons in the championship plus a promotion to the premier league. Seems a bit wasteful that we let him go but kept Joel Pereira instead.
I'm with you on this, it's mind blowing that 8 years on since he joined us he still has glaring weaknesses in his game and given that even his shot stopping has declineg those weaknesses are even more evident.
I'm waiting for his answer too, lets see.
This sums it up. Well said. We have no chance of progressing with that combination of de gea, Lindelof and Maguire - we ll be lucky if we get CL place over the line. It is a glaring weakness that has been ruthlessly exposed over the last few games and it’s unsustainable....
Even if you count passing which DDG may be considered average rather than poor, the stats do not favour him against Allison. Allison makes about 4 accurate long passes per game with a 49% completion overall whilst DDG makes 2.5 with a 33% accuracy from all attempted. Their short pass completion % is similar but Allison makes 20 short pass per 90 whilst DDG plays 13. Whilst that may not seem a big discrepency Allison is 1st in the league for short passes per 90 (for keepers that have significant game time) whilst DDG is 8th.
I don't think it's outlandish to assert that in the absence of DDG being a great shot-stopper you're left with a keeper that is poor (by PL standards) at most other aspects of goalkeeping whilst offer only average-higher average passing ability to compensate.
No. There are mistakes in him too (See one against Liverpool). Like our Great Dane said, give him a few years to develop. Give him room.