Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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LonelyFire

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do.ob said:
Ziyech is a 27 year old Eredivisie player?
Osimhen supposedly went for €70m to €80m?
We don't know what Havertz will cost eventually, last I heard Völler reiterated that they don't want to give a discount on a special player like Havertz and demand full price (supposedly €100m).
Sancho is younger than Havertz, put up better numbers, has an English passport and everyone knows that United are inflexible with their transfer targets.

To me €120m sounds like a fair price and without even knowing what United are offering we can't tell how big the hit would be. But that's just my opinion, I'm no expert on football finance.
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Osimhen is a fair shout although I would argue central strikers usually go for more anyway so that is a factor. As for Ziyech, Chelsea paid €40m - are we honestly saying Sancho is 3x times that? I’m not doubting the age factor but to say he is worth 3x times that is unrealistic for me. Again, I keep coming back to the market for him - nobody else is in for the player. There is no auction here.

On the Havertz piece - what a difference 6 months makes. Havertz did not start season well but his form picked up in December and he’s been consistent since then. Rewind to the previous season and you would have been hard pushed to find many saying Havertz was worth 20-30m less than Sancho.

I like Dortmund - they are a fantastic club and develop talent unlike many others but this valuation is fanciful at best.
 

LonelyFire

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do.ob said:
Don't be silly, Dortmund aren't sacrificing €120m. Between City's cut and whatever bite the player and his agents take they would net much less. And he wouldn't leave for free next summer either, would he?
Selling late means having pressure to sign a replacement from a tiny pool of available players and invalidating a lot of the tactical side of their pre-season. If they are faced with the choice of either keeping Sancho and losing out on say €30m or overpaying on someone they aren't convinced of and messing with their season then they could easily think it's better for them to take the hit.
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Spot on.
 

adam118

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Surely if this is over then United would brief we have ended our interest before Dortmund's press conference? Ed will want to save face.
 

Rolaholic

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LonelyFire said:
Osimhen is a fair shout although I would argue central strikers usually go for more anyway so that is a factor. As for Ziyech, Chelsea paid €40m - are we honestly saying Sancho is 3x times that? I’m not doubting the age factor but to say he is worth 3x times that is unrealistic for me. Again, I keep coming back to the market for him - nobody else is in for the player. There is no auction here.

On the Havertz piece - what a difference 6 months makes. Havertz did not start season well but his form picked up in December and he’s been consistent since then. Rewind to the previous season and you would have been hard pushed to find many saying Havertz was worth 20-30m less than Sancho.

I like Dortmund - they are a fantastic club and develop talent unlike many others but this valuation is fanciful at best.
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Wingers tend to go for a fair bit of money as well to be fair. 8 of the top 10 most expensive transfers ever were bought as wingers so you rarely see elite winger talent go for cheap,

On Ziyech, he's 27 and coming out of the Eredivisie. Sancho has put up better numbers in a bigger league at a much younger age so they're really not that comparable in terms of profile and quality tier in my opinion.

A player like Memphis had a better season than Ziyech ever had in the Eredivisie his last season there at 21 and we saw how it worked out with us, it's tough to determine how well a player would fare in England from there. We've seen much more success stories and stars coming from the Bundesliga to the PL recently
 

LonelyFire

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TheReligion said:
Not really as it doesn't take in to account the fact a deal can be done without a public announcement so as to keep other clubs guessing.
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Do you honestly believe we’ve agreed a deal? I don’t. Literally, nothing reported so far suggests we’ve agreed anything with Dortmund.
 

cyberman

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croadyman said:
Yeah the one thing I will say is that if we have to get him this summer,hate to say it but wait a year and there will be too many other options on the table for him to choose from. I know for many of us Utd is everything but some players will not be thinking in that same way.
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Where is everyone else going to get the money?
 

WPMUFC

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So on the day that we are supposedly "not getting Sancho because BVB are holding a press conference" our mouthpiece Simon Stone tweets that nothing has changed. No briefings from our side to soften the blow, just the same.

Anyone thinking this ends today is bonkers. No matter what BVB say in a press conference, unless we brief people like when we walked from dybala, it doesn't end today.
 

Compton22

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I can probably fit this conversation in based on what Ole has said:

Ole: The fee for the player is sorted, it's just the upfront cost, the greedy fecker Zorc just wants more cash.
Matic: is that it?
Ole: Yeah that's it.
Matic: So it's sorted then?
Ole: Sorted
Matic: When do you think Fabrizio will tweet "here we go"?
Ole: Tuesday/Thursday
 

Skåre Willoch

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I think this one's done already. There's plenty of things to figure out still, Dortmunds replacement for example. Paperwork stuff. Bank stuff. But I do believe that everything is fine, and that Sancho will be presented in the coming days (or weeks. whatever.).
 

7even

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Not exactly Sancho related but yesterday I was reading our annual reports from 2014 to Q3 2020 and tried to estimate how much impact C19 will have of our finance.

Roughly without going into specifics we talk about a minimum of £50m in less revenue. So far.

Commercials revenue isn’t affected at this point. Maybe we lose some of our partners in the future but right now we are unaffected.

Broadcasting and match day revenues is affected, the question is how much? We took a hit Q4 but maybe we will catch up with EL and CL football later this year.

Without spectators on our arena we will lose revenues but the question is how long. If the pandemic social restrictions continues then we talk about a 10% decrease in revenues as far as I can see. That will affect our annual profit with roughly 30-50%. It’s extremely hard to predict but it will cost.

Dortmund’s finances will be hit even harder as far as I can understand but maybe one of our German supporters can cast more light on this. I only see numbers, I don’t fully know their business model and how it works.

With that said I think that the transfer fees will shrink roughly 20-40% the next 12 months if this continues. Feel free to debate if I’m wrong, I’m not an expert but as I say I can read numbers and I do know how to forecast trends. Over and out for today. Let’s focus on tonight’s game.
 

Eckers99

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diarm said:
The only thing people know for sure that Ole is saying in that clip is "cash", and that's only because of the gesture he's making with his fingers.

To be honest, he could just as easily be telling a story about a guy he knew who could roll two tiny spliffs at the same time.
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Maybe he's actually saying 'kush' then?
 

RyRoc

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Deals involving huge transfers of money generally don't have anyone with inside information..would ignore all journos especially as it doesn't look like a deal is close to completion.
 

do.ob

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RkkMan said:
Those factors you`ve mentioned will still be there when he`s sold next season they won`t go away. Difference is the fee they get this year can cover for those expenses as well as having enough left in the tank to add to their own money. Him being cheaper next year means they pocket less money for their own and using more on these expenses which are City`s sell on clause and agent fees. There is absolutely no benefit of BVB selling him next year unless Sancho has a Messi esque season in Germany, the CL and the Euros which will give them the power to sell him like Chelsea did with Hazard
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The difference is that if Dortmund sell in a couple of weeks they may only have one or two choices for a replacement. And if they don't really like those options or their clubs try to take advantage of their predicament, then that eats directly into the supposed upside from selling him this summer. The other difference is that if you sell one of your most important players on the week of your first match, then chances are it's going to impact your season, further eating into the supposed benefits. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the calculation isn't as simple as "sell at some point this window or lose the difference to whatever will be bid next summer".
 

croadyman

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cyberman said:
Where is everyone else going to get the money?
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Honestly think the likes of Barca, Real Madrid will be in a better position and then you have the likes of Chelsea & PSG back in the mix as well.I just would not take that risk if I was United.
 

Alemar

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do.ob said:
The other difference is that if you sell one of your most important players on the week of your first match, then chances are it's going to impact your season, further eating into the supposed benefits.
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They are guaranteed 2nd place in Bundesliga anyway. Nothing more, nothing less. In this regard it is not going to impact their season in a significant way
 

RUCK4444

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VP89 said:
He never once said the contract is done.
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How can you sit there and lap up his nonsense at the time, when it seems a positive update, and then write it off as a nothing statement because he didn't personally guarantee it would happen.

At what point do we stop believing these people? My neighbour could keep telling me every morning that we are in talks for Messi, but at the last minute tell me 'ah I didn't quite tell you the contract was done' - he would still be a bullsh*tter wouldn't he. And in my opinion that's all these 'journalists' are, and I use that term extremely loosely.

All these 'reliable' journo's do is note that neither club have formally denied talks, edge their bets by jumping on the bandwaggon that we are indeed 'in talks' then tow the line that 'ah things could go either way' through the whole saga. Then if he signs they take the glory, if they don't they cop out and no disrespect but people like yourself let them get away with it.
 

Nou_Camp99

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sport2793 said:
You just answered your own question.
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I can create a twitter account and say personal terms won't be an issue. Why would we pursue a player who we don't think we can agree terms with on a contract? It makes no sense. He's not saying anything out of this world is he? Basically we will sign him if we pay 120m Euros. It's hardly the scoop of the century is it?
 

rotherham_red

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croadyman said:
Honestly think the likes of Barca, Real Madrid will be in a better position and then you have the likes of Chelsea & PSG back in the mix as well.I just would not take that risk if I was United.
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Barca and Real are in an even worse position than us. Real have hedge fund loans to pay off and Barca's wage bill is stratospheric. And both have expensive (and VERY expensive at that) stadium redevelopments in the process of breaking ground. I genuinely don't see them being a factor for the foreseeable.

Chelsea, I'll grant you is a toss up, but only on the basis of making top 4, which I personally can see being an issue if Lampard doesn't fix that god awful defensive shape he has. And PSG won't be happening when they already have Neymar and Mbappe.
 

roonster09

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Looks like there are too many posters who falls under 'noob in muppetism' category.

fecking hell same basic questions every season
 

VP89

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RUCK4444 said:
How can you sit there and lap up his nonsense at the time, when it seems a positive update, and then write it off as a nothing statement because he didn't personally guarantee it would happen.

At what point do we stop believing these people? My neighbour could keep telling me every morning that we are in talks for Messi, but at the last minute tell me 'ah I didn't quite tell you the contract was done' - he would still be a bullsh*tter wouldn't he. And in my opinion that's all these journalists, and I use that term extremely loosely, do.

All these 'reliable' journo's do is note that neither club have formally denied talks, edge their bets by jumping on the bandwaggon that we are indeed 'in talks' then tow the line that 'ah things could go either way' through the whole saga. Then if he signs they take the glory, if they don't they cop out and no disrespect but people like yourself let them get away with it.
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What are you on about? He said personal terms were agreed. That's something to be happy about.

He didn't say a contract was signed. The only nonsense argument is to claim that he suggested a contract was signed (in which case the deal is done).

I don't know why you've gone on a tangent about your neighbour. Not really related to anything.
 

UncleBob

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Red Company said:
Great point. Specially post pandemic where the clubs will be trying to save as much money as possible. And if both clubs are able to help each other save then so be it.

Referring to the bolded part; sure you’re right and clubs will take advantage of knowing BVB have money from the Sancho sale but in ‘real life’, it’s not so much about getting a special discount. It’s more about BVB being on the weaker foot in negotiations for Sancho’s replacement once his departure is officially confirmed. They could choose to walk away or pick a different replacement but if Sancho’s departure is confirmed, they will not entirely be able to walk away and clubs will know that.
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It's just a load of make-belief. The notion that everything is agreed and that we're keeping shut about it and:

a) delay the transfer, less training time for Sancho with the first team, less preparation for next season
b) allow the, potentially, £108mill brand new signing to stick with Dortmund for pre-season, potentially risk him getting injured and fecking up the transfer completely

Just so that Dortmund, the club fleecing us,, maybe, just fecking maybe, won't get fleeced by another club.

I mean, to which point does any of that make fecking sense to anyone whatsoever :lol:

Every club in Europe knows that Dortmund are willing to sell Sancho for the right fee, the sale isn't based on Dortmunds ability to replace him.

Jesus christ the amount of stupidity in here surrounding this transfer.

It's pretty fecking simple, it's complicated because they want a ton of money guaranteed, most of it up front, in a time where no one knows exactly when full crowds can be allowed back into stadiums, meaning that the strain on various clubs can be mental due to lack of cashflow.

It's not because it's some sort of secret hush hush deal where we're tugging off Dortmund.
 

sugar_kane

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Dortmund are such a tedious, small time club. Remember when they wished Mkhitaryan good luck in the Europa League when he signed for us?

This is all posturing trying to mask the fact they're just a feeder club for Europe's biggest teams.
 

Red Company

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UncleBob said:
It's just a load of make-belief. The notion that everything is agreed and that we're keeping shut about it and:

a) delay the transfer, less training time for Sancho with the first team, less preparation for next season
b) allow the, potentially, £108mill brand new signing to stick with Dortmund for pre-season, potentially risk him getting injured and fecking up the transfer completely

Just so that Dortmund, the club fleecing us,, maybe, just fecking maybe, won't get fleeced by another club.

I mean, to which point does any of that make fecking sense to anyone whatsoever :lol:

Every club in Europe knows that Dortmund are willing to sell Sancho for the right fee, the sale isn't based on Dortmunds ability to replace him.

Jesus christ the amount of stupidity in here surrounding this transfer.

It's pretty fecking simple, it's complicated because they want a ton of money guaranteed, most of it up front, in a time where no one knows exactly when full crowds can be allowed back into stadiums, meaning that the strain on various clubs can be mental due to lack of cashflow.

It's not because it's some sort of secret hush hush deal where we're tugging off Dortmund.
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No need to call anyone stupid. It could also be stupid or naive of you to ignore the fact that once both clubs do agree on a fee, they both may still want to hold the deal off as long as it suits both of them????
 

Rolaholic

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sugar_kane said:
Dortmund are such a tedious, small time club. Remember when they wished Mkhitaryan good luck in the Europa League when he signed for us?

This is all posturing trying to mask the fact they're just a feeder club for Europe's biggest teams.
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They've been posturing a lot harder this summer coincidentally after Bayern Munich execs belittled them publicly for being a selling club a few weeks ago :lol:

They'll still end up having their best players sold sooner than later and replacing them with other wunderkinds to continue their established business model regardless
 

GazTheLegend

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croadyman said:
Honestly think the likes of Barca, Real Madrid will be in a better position and then you have the likes of Chelsea & PSG back in the mix as well.I just would not take that risk if I was United.
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Psg and Chelsea maybe, but Barcelona's wage budget alone is astrofeckingnomical and they've paid that the last few months of no football and no fans
 
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