Will we need to revise our expectations of Ole following this transfer window?

[tomaldinho1]

Going into next season with this team, no one should expect more than top four, imo. If we got Sancho/Grealish type signings, who knows what we can expect. We'd have pretty good to really good cover in every position. If in addition to two up top we got an experienced top class central defender... we should imo expect us to put in a good fight for top 2

Exactly, I think you'd likely put more pressure on Chelsea now and a potential top 3 battle but w should still comfortably be in the top 4. Even if we don't spend this summer, it doesn't negate how many players we have bought over the last few years and how little we've seen on that investment as fans.

Hopefully the Glazer's sanction Sancho but it looks unlikely in my opinion so I'd rather us sign no one and really try to develop this group than sign some overpriced random players who end up being like Mata, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Rojo etc.

 

[charlenefan]

I think arsenal and spurs will improve alot too. Wolves, Everton, Leicester at least 1 will perform very well. Solskjaer is being absolutely thrown under the bus

Yep and with Arsenal especially there's a feel good factor among the fan base, things like that shouldn't be dismissed as if our fan base go into the season disillusioned that will feed back to the players

Like you said Ole is being thrown right under the bus

 

[Sylar]

As it stands, City, Liverpool and Chelsea 'should' finish ahead of us if season started now.

With arsenal and Spurs improving their squads, and with us standing still as it is we are competing with those teams for spot 4 (but its basically 4,5 and 6). The issue is of course Wolves who could be better without Europe, Everton without Europe (but its Everton so who knows).
And as stated Leicester, but they had a big fall off but could be better with signings and players returning from injury.

As noted by most here, Ole (as it stands) is not being backed to improve upon our second best league finish since SAF left. To standstill whilst others arent, is to go backwards. To be on par, we need to match others in improving the squad. To take a step forward, we need to do better than whats ahead of us.

This is not looking like a good thing. Of course, we could get lucky, be injury free and somehow our players improve their fitness and dont get tired at all, but that relies on every single circumstance going our way (as it did for Liverpool last year).

 

[SER19]

Yep and with Arsenal especially there's a feel good factor among the fan base, things like that shouldn't be dismissed as if our fan base go into the season disillusioned that will feed back to the players

Like you said Ole is being thrown right under the bus

The difference in morale and reporting around a club like Chelsea now versus us should we not sign what we need will be pretty huge. Our players know we need depth

 

[Foxbatt]

There is no point in blaming Ole if he doesn't get at least a couple of world class players.

 

[Jonno]

If Ole has asked for players and they've not been provided, the board will be straight forward and revise what they expect from him. Just like in any job / role.

I work in recruitment, during COVID i didn't have as many roles for my candidates, and in turn my targets were slashed and made more attainable. Its the same in any industry.

It's obvious that we finished 3rd, but Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs have all strengthened. As such, I think he will be allowed to drop to 4th and be considered a good season.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

He should still be blamed for the poor coaching though. Or at least his staff should be.

 

[romufc]

He should still be blamed for the poor coaching though. Or at least his staff should be.

Who's been coached poorly?

 

[Falcow]

Wait until transfer window is closed before setting expectations.

Agree 100%.

As it stands I think it fair to extrapolate our points total from Brunos arrival over 38 games. That will leave us comfortably in third again or perhaps higher.

I realise what Chelsea are doing and I expect them to improve also but I dont see them improving like we have since Bruno arrived. A 36 year old Thiago Silva ain't gonna solve their considerable central defensive woes.

Meanwhile City need 3 or 4 new players and I think pool also need to strengthen, they a long term injury to VVD away from battling for top 4, anyone who thinks otherwise should look at their league position before he arrived.

 

[The Urban Goose]

Someone bookmark this thread ready for all of the "Ole out" "Championship manager" "worst manager in the league" comments around Christmas.

 

[Denis79]

I'll still expect to comfortably finish top 4. Anything less will be a failure in my eyes unless we get overwhelmed by injuries.

 

[Sandikan]

As it stands 4th will be our target.

We needed some game changing signings to look higher.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Without signing battle for third with Chelsea and one cup is something what he must do. Enough with excuses ffs. We have better squad than Spurs and Arsenal. So this squad must be in top 4 from the start of the season.

 

[RedSky]

Reminder. The first half of the season showed us that our squad is simply not good enough, we have actively reduced the number of players in our squad without even bringing any in.

We're one or two injuries away from having a massive drop in quality in our first team.

 

[RkkMan]

If we don`t make any signings only people I`ll blame for our inevitable meltdown of a season are The Glazers not Ole. Our starting 11 may be good on paper but wishful thinking to expect them to have a renaissance like Liverpool when our form since Southampton has been dodgy at best, lack of signings to improve depth which is beyond shocking as well as to provide the squad with momentum and a confidence boost. There is no way without investment we close down a 15 point gap on City and 33 point gap on LFC barring a Leicester esque miracle or one of them having a serious meltdown and factor in both teams will invest. As it stands Chelsea who we were level on points with are ahead of us squad wise and momentum wise their quality is more than good enough to sustain them over a whole season.
Best we can hope for is 4th place and zero chance Spurs/Arsenal regress after the seasons they had and both will continue to invest in the window. Basically we are relying on luck and individual brilliance to sustain us which won`t work over a whole season. Unless we have a completely perfect storm fitness wise and key players somehow taking their game up a level we are in for a long season. Another 5th/6th place finish for us as things stand IMO probably 7th/8th

 

[Bastian]

Lower expectations yet again? I agree that the top two are lightyears ahead of us, so that's not a chance. But we had a mostly awful season that became more positive towards the end. If we sign no one then the expectation is still to keep progressing as a footballing side (coaching), to manage players' fitness a lot more carefully (let alone now with the monstrosity of the looming fixture list and no proper rest), and to prioritise competitions with view to squad strength.

Ole will not be done any favours if we fail to improve the team - and he can't have any complaints if he doesn't publicly put a hint of pressure on the board - but we're weeks away from the window shutting and I cannot imagine us not signing anyone. Rather expecting a couple of underwhelming signings, but that's just a hunch.

Maybe they need to look at revitalising the physio and fitness department, but Ole will simply have to be a lot more thoughtful about managing players' fitness and coming back from injuries. The biggest gripe I have with him is how criminally reckless he was last season in running players into the ground.

Another part of the context are our rivals. We've just completed one the most mediocre seasons in recent Premier League history, where one team was great and one team was playing somewhat close to championship form (historically). No other team performed well, discounting Sheffield and a couple of teams playing above expectations. And - with regards to players' injuries - our direct rivals have similar size squads or smaller.

Chelsea have strengthened, but Frank is still an inexperienced manager and all those players will need bedding in. Will he discard to youth immediately or slowly introduce players. Will they get a keeper who is half-reliable? They might be favourites for third, but what about the rest of our competition? Spurs haven't dramatically improved at all. Arsenal haven't either. Leicester are now weaker than before, Wolves about the same. And yet, we're the team that was in the best form towards the end of the season and top 4 is unattainable?

Again, top 4 is the minimum. Ongoing improved football, evidence of better coaching. Better management of fitness. And a much healthier points tally. 80 points plus.

 

[Rory 7]

We're a club that is battling for 4th place. Every manager since SAF has survived or been sacked based on CL qualification. Top-4 finish is the Glazer model. Anyone expecting Ole to deliver more than that will be disappointed. Anything he achieves beyond that is a bonus. I don't like admitting this but that's where we are at.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Who's been coached poorly?

The team is overall not functioning as a unit well enough to reach it's full potential. Not enough coordinated movement in attack and press in my opinion.
Regarding individual coaching then it is harder to know. Our squad players have struggled more than our first team players.
Some players have improved (Greenwood, Martial) and others regressed(Mata, Lingard, Pereira). Others maybe not improved as much as you would have hoped for (Wan Bissaka, Dan James, Rashford).

 

[BenitoSTARR]

As things stand 4th place seems to be where we are heading.

But note that we will have players entering their peaks and developing further. A young squad that can and should improve.

We do need signings though to close the gap on Liverpool and City so patience and seee where we end up

 

[Foxbatt]

I have always said that I do not think Ole is a top manager/coach so with other teams like Liverpool, city and Chelsea and Arsenal adding to their squad and if we do not get any new world class players, I do not blame Ole if he fails to get even into the CL spots.
Yes give him at least three top class players and if he then does not get into the CL spots or challenge for a major trophy then sack him by all means.

 

[NJM78]

If we finish 4th, as it stands, Ole will surely win manager of the season.

 

[edcunited1878]

Ole and staff really need to work and focus on the players at their disposal like Henderson, AWB, Williams, McTominay, Rashford, Greenwood, and James. Those players are going to be very crucial as to how this upcoming season unfolds. They all have to improve, be more consistent at a higher level, and continue to mature mentally and physically.

I think Martial has found a level and understanding where he's a top overall CF in the league who isn't just about goals. If he stays healthy, he'll bang in at least 17 league goals. I have more confidence in Martial than I do with the players I listed above because they have to make significant strides to complement more established and known players such as Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof, Matic, Pogba, Fred, Bruno (who may have some regression), etc.

 

[TheRedDevil2019]

Goes without saying. Potentially one of our biggest rivals will sign Messi, Chelsea are showing real intent enhancing a side that finished level with us on points and we continue to churn out Lingard and co week in, week out.

Shame on the board, Ole deserves no criticism what so ever. IF City were to sign Messi and we can't even get Sancho ,it will make United look minuscule in comparison to City. The whole world talking about the other team in Manchester, whilst Woodward and the Glazers flop around. It sends the wrong message and makes City look the bigger team in Manchester.

 

[Amir]

If we finish 4th, as it stands, Ole will surely win manager of the season.

You'd expect Liverpool, City and Chelsea to be strong. I don't see why us finishing fourth with the current squad should be considered such a miracle.

 

[romufc]

The team is overall not functioning as a unit well enough to reach it's full potential. Not enough coordinated movement in attack and press in my opinion.
Regarding individual coaching then it is harder to know. Our squad players have struggled more than our first team players.
Some players have improved (Greenwood, Martial) and others regressed(Mata, Lingard, Pereira). Others maybe not improved as much as you would have hoped for (Wan Bissaka, Dan James, Rashford).

A team does not finish in the top 4 if its not coached properly. You do not beat Chelsea, Spurs, City in a season if you are not well coached, you can get lucky for 1/2 big games but not every game.

Mata is regressing due to age, Lingard and Perreira? really? Perreira has never shown he is United quality so I am not sure how he has regressed but ok.

Wan Bisskaka has had his best season, most tackles and has improved going forward.

James was always going to take a while to develop, so I dont know how you can criticise Ole on his development.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

If we finish 4th, as it stands, Ole will surely win manager of the season.

Don't be so dramatic, only one club has done significant business in the market.

 

[led_scholes]

Top 4 is a prerequisite (or at least a close fight for it).

Chelsea with no incoming transfers, with a new manager and even losing their best player managed to maintain their position.

No transfers is no ideal but it should not be an alibi for a collapse.

 

[RkkMan]

Top 4 is a prerequisite (or at least a close fight for it).

Chelsea with no incoming transfers, with a new manager and even losing their best player managed to maintain their position.

No transfers is no ideal but it should not be an alibi for a collapse.

Difference is Chelsea had already prepared for it with 2 additions(Pulisic/Kovacic) and lots of youth players coming back from loan to give them the depth they needed as they knew of the transfer ban. Our depth beyond our starting 11 is Championship Material and we have the capability of going out to improve it but we haven`t so far. If it stays that way and we under perform Ole is not the one to blame but those above him who put him in a precarious position while allowing our rivals to close in on us or overtake us.

 

[RkkMan]

Don't be so dramatic, only one club has done significant business in the market.

Other clubs around us have still done business even if its not at the level of Chelsea they are still improving their squads and additions can give a squad confidence and momentum even if its not marquee. Last underwhelming summer took us to 6th from 2nd when we *thought we had a solid team and its clear our depth especially in attack is strong enough you saw it when Martial/Pogba got injured fans are warranted to think it will take something seriously special from Ole to get us top 4 as after our form since Southampton there is so serious making of a solid top 3 team

 

[MichaelRed]

Don't be so dramatic, only one club has done significant business in the market.

What about City? looks like they'll have Ake, Ferran Torres, Koulibaly & Messi. Arsenal have Saliba, Gabriel, Willian & will get Partey and/or Aouar, possibly a striker too if they offload Lacazette. Spurs have made good signings and it will be Mourinho's first full season with them. Leicester only just missed out on top 4 last season & they'll likely be stronger next season, especially upgrading Chilwell to Tagliafico.

 

[NJM78]

You'd expect Liverpool, City and Chelsea to be strong. I don't see why us finishing fourth with the current squad should be considered such a miracle.

Well I said as it stands and I believe Spurs, Arsenal and maybe Wolves and Leicester have just as much chance of getting 4th as us, so it will be great from the boss to get us CL if he is not backed sufficiently in this window.

 

[NJM78]

Don't be so dramatic, only one club has done significant business in the market.

I will be as dramatic as I want thanks.

 

[Tom Cato]

I'm not adding a lot to this conversation, but I have this fan-romantic feeling that Mason Greenwood is going to be absolutely bonkers this season. "Like a new signing".

 

[Jev]

The way things are going, even with Sancho coming, I think fourth is the most we can reasonably expect. If City sign Messi and Liverpool Thiago, they are way out of our league and Chelsea have strengthened too much for us to expect to finish ahead, although we have a chance of course. I do, however, think we are comfortably fourth-best, especially if we get Sancho. So fourth is both the most and the least we can expect.

 

[TheLord]

@OP
No. We don't need to revise anything.


The goal is simple: finish within the CL spots. A fourth place finish is good enough. I don't think anything has changed.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I will be as dramatic as I want thanks.

If you've acknowledged it I can't be mad at it. You do you.

 

[Bondi77]

If no incoming transfers Ole should differentiate between competitions. The league should be the absolute priority together with CL. Reserve team in League Cup and FA Cup. Our first 11 is strong and they should not be overplayed.

Spot on about Ole playing our best players too often and we should prioritise the two big ones and let the rest of the squad take up the slack on the other ones.
Over the next two years we will have the Euros and the World Cup potentially so the top players will have to be managed carefully.

 

[groovyalbert]

Spot on about Ole playing our best players too often and we should prioritise the two big ones and let the rest of the squad take up the slack on the other ones.
Over the next two years we will have the Euros and the World Cup potentially so the top players will have to be managed carefully.

Still can't get over the team he selected v Chelsea in the FA Cup. He could literally have played our U18s and no one would have cared.

With the squad we have right now, and assuming we can't rotate in the manner we did for the Europa last season, getting top 4 is the best we can realistically expect. Chelsea, City and Liverpool will be miles ahead.

 

[Bondi77]

Still can't get over the team he selected v Chelsea in the FA Cup. He could literally have played our U18s and no one would have cared.

With the squad we have right now, and assuming we can't rotate in the manner we did for the Europa last season, getting top 4 is the best we can realistically expect. Chelsea, City and Liverpool will be miles ahead.

I don’t know how you will think Chelsea will be miles ahead as their GK and their defence is woeful.

 

[Mickeza]

We should still finish 4th in theory even if we add nobody else but we do have a big problem with attacking squad depth so if we pick up 2/3 key injuries we’re in a bit of trouble.