Will we need to revise our expectations of Ole following this transfer window?

[Woodenlung]

If we don't sign at least two quality players we're dropping out of the top 4. We've seen time and again that our squad depth is poor and even a few changes to the starting 11 brings an alarming dip in quality. So rotation options can't be relied upon. Add in all the cup fixtures and international games scheduled and I can see us struggling a lot.

 

[Rolaholic]

He'd be put in quite the unfair and unenviable position if we have a quiet window in the face of quite literally all our rivals strengthening big time and our neighbor's potentially working in bringing the best player in the world in so I would definitely recalibrate my expectations of him as a fan

Unfortunately though,management is a results based business and I wouldn't be surprised if we're talking about who we as fans prefer next out of the likes of Tuchel, Poch or Conte come winter time at this rate.

All that is only if we end up having a poor window without any needle moving signings or genuine injections of quality into the squad. Still holding out hope that they back Ole as I've grown a bit fond of him over the last season and do believe he'd be the right man for the continuing rebuild job if he were backed nearly as much as his managerial rivals.

 

[Glorio]

Sure but the initial expectations are usually set with the assumption that no key player will have a significant, long-term injury, the kind that Pogba had last season.

If that assumption proves to be incorrect, we'll have to revise the expectations as well, of course. But until then it's reasonable to say that we should do better than last season in terms of points and goals scored.

Agree. Throw in Rashford and Martial's injuries for extra measure, it's a wonder we had a fighting chance

 

[lysglimt]

We will spend - the problem is, I am not sure we will end up spending on the players we really want.

 

[tomaldinho1]

No - whilst it's not what I hope happens - should we not sign anyone of note it'd be a really good test to actually see what the coaching team can do. We've seen what they did this year and Bruno seemed to make a massive difference because pre Bruno it was a really bleak time for United. We have a decent enough squad on paper to remain in the top four and I'd actually love to see the high press Ole's been talking about actually happen and us start believing a bit more in being able to improve players, rather than throw our toys out the pram after a bad performance and immediately demand a new shiny signing in almost every position. The below won't win the league but I still think we should be able to have a better season than last and if you add in some loans/free agents for depth (again not ideal but if it happens).

Rashford/James-----------Martial/Igalo (or similar loan)-----------Greenwood/Lingard
---------------------------------------------- Bruno/Mata/Pereira--------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------Pogba/McT--------------- Matic/Fred/Garner------------------------------
Shaw/Williams------Maguire/Tuanzebe------Lindelof/Bailly/Smalling? ----- AWB/TFM
---------------------------------------------------DDG/Hendo------------------------------------------------------

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

As of now, my expectation is still top 4. Only Chelsea considerably improved themselves.

 

[Siorac]

Agree. Throw in Rashford and Martial's injuries for extra measure, it's a wonder we had a fighting chance

Both played over 30 games in the league; if all key players have a similar or better fitness record next season, that'll be fantastic.

 

[soralapio]

Absolutely. Getting into the top 4 next season is going to be a very steep uphill battle, let alone trying to get anywhere in Europe. Massively let down by the management.

 

[oreon]

Top 4 is a must even without signings. Compare this squad to Arsenal or Spurs, we have a better team. If there are no signings I don't expect to be close to City, Pool or even Chelsea but we should make top 4.

Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Pogba, Fernandes is a better attacking 5 than any of Leicester, Arsenal or Spurs.

 

[EwanI Ted]

Last season Ole was allowed to buy a player to save his season in January when other managers couldn't. It seems we're comparing with other clubs only when we're going to come out unfavourably.

I don't like the idea of lowering expectations, they should remain the same as last year and if he does get his transfer, they should increase.

Almost everyone already has higher expectations for the coming seasons than last.

 

[devilish]

If by the end of the transfer window Ole isn't happy with the situation at hand then he should resign.

 

[jackal&hyde]

I do think we will have more points next season even without transfers, but so will Chelsea with how much business they've done. At this point, i'd expect a similar season with a fight for 4th with Chelsea clear favorites. We have a good first 11 but one or two injuries and we are crap.

 

[Skills]

What were the expectations? I thought it was just another season in the top 4, and I haven't seen any of the team's outside he top 4 strengthen too?

Also, have we just all at this point admitted that Ole and crew are just too poor to improve the players already at the club? So there's no point anything more from the guys already here (including the ones he spunked 200m on in the year).

 

[Crustanoid]

He exceeded expectations last season, but he is not a miracle worker. The constraints the board are putting on any manager are too great to give him a hard time unless any poor showing is very obviously his fault, ie we are in a relegation battle

 

[AJ Bullet]

The problem is we are so far behind the actual leaders we can improve and still only achieve 3rd at best anyway, Liverpool are in a groove now and City could end up with Messi in their side, even if we signed 11 players we still wouldnt turn into title contenders over night. I dont think we realistically have a chance in the CL without a really favourable draw so the expectations are still going to be lower than we actually want anyway.

Might sound depressing but its hard facts, if Arsenal or Spurs buck their ideas up as well we will be in a major scrap for top 4 again and thats about it.

Maybe a minor League or FA Cup win would at least show signs of the team progressing and get over the "bottlers" tag that they now have after 3 lost semi's and prove Ole can win a trophy in England and get that monkey off his back as well.

 

[Zen86]

Top 4 is a must even without signings. Compare this squad to Arsenal or Spurs, we have a better team. If there are no signings I don't expect to be close to City, Pool or even Chelsea but we should make top 4.

Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Pogba, Fernandes is a better attacking 5 than any of Leicester, Arsenal or Spurs.

The point is more that injuries to 1 or 2 of those players, and we’re a bit fecked.

 

[charlenefan]

If we fail in this window top 6 would be a good achievement by him.

This is what we're in for with no improvements in the squad a battle for 4th-6th with City, Liverpool and Chelsea miles ahead

 

[laughtersassassin]

Technically yes but while it will be unfair to blame Ole for not getting transfers if he can't convince the club to buy him them he has to b held accountable as well.

Especially if he doesn't put any pressure on them publicly. If he goes into the season with a shit window he should day as much. Conte would. I'd respect him more for that.

And no it wouldn't be like Jose as Ole saying it wouldn't come with as much toxicity and baggage.

So unfortunately for Ole regardless of the window he must get top 4. We can't regress again.

 

[dove]

He exceeded expectations last season, but he is not a miracle worker. The constraints the board are putting on any manager are too great to give him a hard time unless any poor showing is very obviously his fault, ie we are in a relegation battle

He did not exceed expectations though.

 

[Isotope]

What changed? Chelsea is on 4th, and spending big. So the Top 3 is almost guaranteed. None below us strengthening much. So Top 4 is still the expectation.

And yeh. What is this "he exceeded expectation"? United was 6th the season before, spent 200+m, and went up 3rd on the last day. I mean, what did people expect? 5th?

 

[Gopher Brown]

I expect us to win something and challenge for the title, anything less is abject failure.

 

[James Peril]

Next season is about securing top 4 as always, there is no point in looking above - we were 33 points off for god’s sake. It’s not only the players, but the inexperienced manager and not so modern playing style. The two better teams have the two best managers and incorporated styles, we have no chance as long as they are motivated and still have their stars fit for action.

Next season is about winning more games and having more fun, a bit like the games we saw in June. I think we at one point had won 11 or 12 out of 31 games (not bothered to check), which is just sackable if anything. We won too little, we scored too little, next year I want 15 points more and 20 more goals in the league. If not winning trophies, it should be fun to watch at least. Perhaps a cup? Trophies are important, ultimate catalyst.

As for Solskjær, I’ve given up the discussion on here, let’s just let time do its thing and he’ll be gone eventually - luckily so will Klopp and Guardiola. Not going to gloat, it’s not like I’m happy if we fail.

 

[Adisa]

I have never thought of him as a title challenging manager. My expectations remain the same regardless of the transfer window. The best we can hope for is a distant third.

 

[Smores]

Unless we get major injuries to several key players then no we shouldn't revise anything. Top 4 is a minimum to keep the job and we should rack up a lot more points so we're somewhat close to the winner.

It's still a very good squad it would only be unfair if we were demanding a title, which fans should never do anyway.

 

[dove]

What changed? Chelsea is on 4th, and spending big. So the Top 3 is almost guaranteed. None below us strengthening much. So Top 4 is still the expectation.

And yeh. What is this "he exceeded expectation"? United was 6th the season before, spent 200+m, and went up 3rd on the last day. I mean, what did people expect? 5th?

Some people here honestly believed (probably still do) that the likes of Leicester, Wolves and even Arsenal all have better squads than we do... It's ridiculous but that's our fanbase.

 

[Bilbo]

As has been said, let's wait for the window to end. United fans seem to be losing their minds all year round nowadays. Football or no football there is mass panic about something.

If however we end this window without any significant signings then yes we should revise our expectations. Does that mean that fans will actually do that? No of course not. Every time we lose a match everyone at the club will receive their share of it.

 

[Member 113277]

I think it's fair to say that we had expected a plan to bridge the gap between ourselves and the 2 sides above us next season. Perhaps not completely but considerably enough to warrant some sort of challenge, as it's Ole's 3rd season in charge with some transfer windows for him & Ed to work in their players.

As we evaluate the current state of the market, 1) Chelsea, a side that matched us for points last season, have improved massively on paper 2)There is a strong likelihood Liverpool will plug one of their few weaknesses with Thiago and 3) Excluding an outside chance of City getting Messi, we can expect a center back of Koulibali's ilk to be wrapped up which will improve them.

As we revert back to ourselves, we can all agree that we are shy of more than just a star right winger, and even this target is taking it's sweet time to reach some conclusion one way or another. I still think we will get Sancho over the line, but am personally starting to accept that this may be the only piece of business we complete.

If we accept a scenario where we get Sancho, Liverpool get Thiago, City get their center back + 1-2 others, and Chelsea we already know: should we reasonably really expect Ole to bridge the gap as per the progression plan? It might be that we fall further away, given how well Chelsea have recruited.

Is it a reasonable expectation for any other manager if not Ole? Finally if the answer is that we should re-evaluate our expectations in light of how other teams have strengthened/will strengthen, then should we not focus our attention more on the dire state of how Woodward has handled the (lack of) DoF situation? This to me at least is more a root of the problem!

I believe that the team will improve organically this season, as the younger players become more experienced - add Bruno and Pogba for a whole season (injuries permitting) and that won't do any harm, either.

The important questions are

1. Will our anticipated rate of organic improvement be equal, lower or faster than the competition's improvement?
2. Will we make any key signings of the right quality, to create another step change such as the one following Bruno's arrival?
3. WIll our squad depth be sufficient?

These factors, IMO, will determine our position next year

 

[SER19]

This is what we're in for with no improvements in the squad a battle for 4th-6th with City, Liverpool and Chelsea miles ahead

I think arsenal and spurs will improve alot too. Wolves, Everton, Leicester at least 1 will perform very well. Solskjaer is being absolutely thrown under the bus

 

[VP89]

Is it? Have I missed a season?

I don't think we'll end up with no signings, but will they be the ones that Ole wants and how many? They are the questions.

I'm sure as well that Ole would also ideally like them in before or at least soon after the season restarts so they can be integrated within the squad quickly. That is another point.

Those asking for him to walk, how easy do you think walking would be? I doubt anyone here would walk given the choice.

He joined with half the season to go season before last. So he'd be going into his 3rd season with the club. You go on the pedantic side and say "2nd full season" if you really want!

I think the bold bit is interesting though. I don't think anyone here expects him to walk, but I don't think its unreasonable in the modern game for managers of top clubs to call out their owners in getting business done. Professionally of course, not in a distasteful manner. Ole has done this a bit but he might need to turn the screw a bit more. Our club is meant to be among the biggest in the world and there is added scrutiny on how the Glazers seemingly have not invested a dime of their own money into the club. I think there's an onus to pull their finger out and make the transfers happen in what is an extremely vital window.

 

[Withnail]

He did not exceed expectations though.

Did you expect top 3 going in to last season? I know I didn't. I thought top 4 could be doable but wasn't overly optimistic.

 

[roonster09]

Depends on how the transfer market ends and how many players we can add. Right now it's not looking good, Chelsea have added lot of players, so improved at least on paper. Likewise Leicester have lost their best LB.

We also added Bruno in Jan, after which our results improved and maybe injury free Pogba too. So at least on paper we should do better than last season as our players are young and have improved. Greenwood wasn't starter in the first half of the season, now he is regular starter, So that's improvement on right wing too.

AWB's second season at the club, Pogba fit, Bruno available from first game, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood improvements mean we are stronger than last season. We should add more players too.

IMO 4th is the minimum expectation.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I wasn't expecting much in the first place, I mean I'd have hoped for at least some sort of title challenge but I already knew it was very unlikely. Without signings the squad should still be good enough for top four though so I do expect him to achieve that. I'd also expect more than a measly 64 points this time round. Maybe 70-75. Anything less is a huge failure.

 

[Jonno]

If we sign Sancho + 1 more by October, it will be a good window.

I'll be reserving judgement until then. People were claiming Bruno Fernandes "will never come to Man United" and then the next thing he's holding the shirt.

 

[Ash_G]

It's a tough one. Clearly teams around us have strengthened/look like they will strengthen which makes it tougher and if we don't sign anyone it will be very frustrating, however I'm not sure we can say that Ole is consistently getting more out of the team then the sum of it's parts and so I think that is something he needs to show. The likes of Leicester, Wolves, Sheffield United have been punching above their weight through the season or over prolonged periods. Even Liverpool, whilst clearly a really good team with some really good players, for me there is a significant amount about Klopp and the tactical training and mentality that maximises the output from their players. I think Ole does need to show he can get more out of our non star players but also as a team as sometimes it does seem we still rely on individual moments rather than a specific tactic.

Similarly I think Ole needs to show how he can use his squad. I fully accept we have players who aren't at the level we'd want but I also don't think it's quite so bad that he has no options. I don't think we can make wholesale changes but I think you can swap a player out here and there without the whole team stopping to function. For example whilst Bruno is clearly more effective I think you could have Mata playing with Martial/Rashford/Greenwood ahead of him and he could do a good job there in the right games.

I think we should be expecting that whilst we're probably not title contenders we also shouldn't be as far off the pace. We dropped a lot of points against teams below us and this season even without signings, subject to injuries we're going in to the season with a front 3 who have stepped up their games, Bruno and hopefully a fit and invested Pogba. We should be able to pick up more points in games we drew last season and hopefully avoid a few losses that shouldn't have happened. Liverpool played at such a level that I think it's hard for them to really push beyond that and also having won the title it's always a challenge to maintain your drive, this doesn't mean I think we can catch them but I do think we should be able to reduce the points gap.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

If we get Sancho I think we should expect a better season out of Ole irrespective of what our rivals have done. I’ve defended Ile to high heaven and I think he’s the right manager to take us forward but it’s clear he’s now built a good first 11 that provided we avoid massive injuries should easily get more points than last season. To be honest even without Sancho we should be doing better because we have;

1. The emergence of Greenwood who i think could have a proper breakthrough next season
2. Pogba fit again and committed to the cause which is like a new signing compared to last season.
3. Bruno for the whole season. We have already seen that with Bruno we were comfortably the third best in the league so I expect is to at least carry some of that form into the new season
4. The growth of Rashford and Martial. I believe both are now entering their prime. Martial in particular I think has finished the season on fire and there’s no reason to doubt he can keep that up as he’s a supreme talent. Expect 25-30 goals from the Frenchman next season.
   

Sancho would no doubt add a massive element to the above and I think would see off the challenge of Chelsea regardless of who they sign as I expect they will have some growing pains next year. City and Liverpool are likely untouchable without signing additional quality but we should still be expecting progress of Ole regardless.

 

[passing-wind]

Wait until transfer window is closed before setting expectations.

This is pretty much it, Chelsea also haven't kicked a ball with their new fielding players. Often when you sign multiple players there's a bedding in process. Pulisic and Fabinho are more recent examples. Next year Chelsea could essentially be in a transition due to so many changes in the starting 11. When we signed Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Zlatan and Bailey we didn't exactly light the league up it takes time.

 

[Yagami]

My expectations are still the same. I want to see cohesive, modern day, progressive football that pretty much every other big club plays. It's been two years and there's still no signs of it so I'm not holding my breath this year. I expect us to rely on individual brilliance in most games, and bus parking, counter attacking football in the big ones.

 

[shabz]

If the board doesn't back him and everyone else improves then I'm not sure what we can expext of him, the board will have to take the heat. We clearly need a couple positions replacing and wouldnt expect anything other than an up and down season again.

 

[e.cantona]

Rashford/James-----------Martial/Igalo (or similar loan)-----------Greenwood/Lingard
---------------------------------------------- Bruno/Mata/Pereira--------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------Pogba/McT--------------- Matic/Fred/Garner------------------------------
Shaw/Williams------Maguire/Tuanzebe------Lindelof/Bailly/Smalling? ----- AWB/TFM
---------------------------------------------------DDG/Hendo------------------------------------------------------

Going into next season with this team, no one should expect more than top four, imo. If we got Sancho/Grealish type signings, who knows what we can expect. We'd have pretty good to really good cover in every position. If in addition to two up top we got an experienced top class central defender... we should imo expect us to put in a good fight for top 2

 

[rotherham_red]

I think it's fair to say that we had expected a plan to bridge the gap between ourselves and the 2 sides above us next season. Perhaps not completely but considerably enough to warrant some sort of challenge, as it's Ole's 3rd season in charge with some transfer windows for him & Ed to work in their players.

As we evaluate the current state of the market, 1) Chelsea, a side that matched us for points last season, have improved massively on paper 2)There is a strong likelihood Liverpool will plug one of their few weaknesses with Thiago and 3) Excluding an outside chance of City getting Messi, we can expect a center back of Koulibali's ilk to be wrapped up which will improve them.

As we revert back to ourselves, we can all agree that we are shy of more than just a star right winger, and even this target is taking it's sweet time to reach some conclusion one way or another. I still think we will get Sancho over the line, but am personally starting to accept that this may be the only piece of business we complete.

If we accept a scenario where we get Sancho, Liverpool get Thiago, City get their center back + 1-2 others, and Chelsea we already know: should we reasonably really expect Ole to bridge the gap as per the progression plan? It might be that we fall further away, given how well Chelsea have recruited.

Is it a reasonable expectation for any other manager if not Ole? Finally if the answer is that we should re-evaluate our expectations in light of how other teams have strengthened/will strengthen, then should we not focus our attention more on the dire state of how Woodward has handled the (lack of) DoF situation? This to me at least is more a root of the problem!

On the basis of us not buying anyone in, I think a reasonable target would be Top 4, but an improvement in terms of points gained and further developing the players we have. I say it's reasonable because short of lightening striking twice, we should definitely see an improvement in terms of the injury situation we had in the first half of the season, and because of how young our best players are, we should be seeing a natural progression from them. All of which should ensure that we are better than we were last season.

If, however, we did buy 3 or so players, then I'd expect us to close the gap much further on the Top 2.

Make no mistake though, as it stands, this window is shaping up to be a massive missed opportunity to strengthen in the areas we needed to strengthen. Though, on the bright side, I'd welcome the likely introduction of players like Laird and Mengi in to the fold and who could provide some good depth and potential for much, much more if they are brought in to the fold.

Also, I do think Chelsea's transfer business is getting a tad bit overblown. They're falling in to the trap that Wenger's Arsenal did of strengthening the areas they were already strong in and largely forgetting, or rather scrimping, on the areas that they desperately needed to sort out. An old and largely decrepit Thiago Silva under a manager like Lampard who can't coach a compact defence to save his life is a recipe for disaster. Chilwell is a robbery also, as far as I'm concerned, and it looks like the keepers they are going for are largely unheralded or young.

I could be left with egg on my face if they prove me wrong and have a proper title challenge, but personally, seeing the areas of the pitch where they have strengthened, I do feel it will be more of the same as it was last season, with perhaps a couple of those draws/losses turning in to victories.