Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

[Redcy]

I would have thought that United could far better spend £108m in other ways than on such a risky punt.

The problem with this statement is who, when you look at the prices being quoted for bang average players then 108m looks cheap.

60-80m for Grealish
30m for Brooks


Then you have to look at the market and ask who is realistically available who we would make an improvement to our front three. The choices are pretty limited overall. Anyone who would be a starter is going to cost over 80m.

The players that have been discussed here show what our other options would be:

Dembele
Diego Costa
Perisic
Chiesa
Sarr

Ranging from good but injury prone and expensive, to bang average.

Improving our team needs to be done for example we could go into the season and just buy a CB and LB instead, but that still leaves us with our backup to the front three being James, Lingard or Mata, none of which provide anything.

Add to that, Salah or Mane going to barca/real/juve, etc means Liverpool could be in a position to steal Sancho away next year (alongside other clubs) ,and many people believe if we don't take him on this year, he may be gone forever.

 

[LoneStar]

Yeah, we're not signing anybody.

Yeah I have a feeling this is what will happen. Ole probably said Sancho or nothing, so Woodward took that as nothing then.

On the bright side, if we don’t bring in anyone else, I can mentally adjust my expectations to top 6 and be at peace.

 

[davidmichael]

I’m bored to tears of this so can’t be bothered to read through pages from last time I was in this thread, someone just tell me what’s actually happening ? I don’t mind the long version or the short version as both are quicker than 50 odd pages.

 

[starman]

Does any United fan even remotely see Sancho as worth paying £108m? It's a completely ludicrous over-valuation IMO.

He's about 20-30m overvalued, imo, should around the Havertz's fee, which I believe United are aiming for.

 

[mazhar13]

I’m bored to tears of this so can’t be bothered to read through pages from last time I was in this thread, someone just tell me what’s actually happening ? I don’t mind the long version or the short version as both are quicker than 50 odd pages.

In terms of the current state, nothing has changed; we've yet to progress with Dortmund on Sancho even though we've agreed personal terms with the player. There have been a few murmurs in the media from United-linked journalists that this deal might not be possible, but there has yet to be a brief that calls off the transfer.

 

[LoneStar]

I’m bored to tears of this so can’t be bothered to read through pages from last time I was in this thread, someone just tell me what’s actually happening ? I don’t mind the long version or the short version as both are quicker than 50 odd pages.

Nothing. Literally no news from the last couple of weeks I think

 

[DevilRed]

After watching Evra's video on instagram, I'm now convinced we won't be able to close this deal.

Even if we do, we will overspend and the pricetag on a 20 year old will be absolutely crushing pressure.

 

[elnorte]

After watching Evra's video on instagram, I'm now convinced we won't be able to close this deal.

Even if we do, we will overspend and the pricetag on a 20 year old will be absolutely crushing pressure.

Haha. What did he say? Roughly.

 

[Escobar]

After watching Evra's video on instagram, I'm now convinced we won't be able to close this deal.

Even if we do, we will overspend and the pricetag on a 20 year old will be absolutely crushing pressure.

You needed to see the video to realize that? It has been clear for weeks

 

[bsCallout]

Nowhere near his prime - true. Already "so good" is more debateable. He hasn't really stood out when playing for England so far. And playing in the Bundesliga is less challenging than playing in the Prem.

If Son is better (and I'd say he clearly is), and if Son is not worth £108m (which he isn't, by a long chalk), then it seems to me that your £108m valuation argument for Sancho is based mostly on his young age and your belief that (a) he'd adapt well to the Prem; and (b) will improve to the point where he becomes not just better than Son, but much better than Son.

I would have thought that United could far better spend £108m in other ways than on such a risky punt.

I didn't say we couldnt spend better, that doesnt mean his valuation isnt fair.

If he was with UTD for 10 years thata circa 10mil per year.

Even at his current level that is a bargain.

The expectation of his trajectory is such that any team has to pay big. That is fair. Just like it was with Mbappe.

If he was at UTD already I wouldnt sell for less than 150mil. Just like Greenwood.

Anyone claiming he isnt a standout talent is really just seeing what they want to back up their arguement.

 

[bsCallout]

The problem with this statement is who, when you look at the prices being quoted for bang average players then 108m looks cheap.

60-80m for Grealish
30m for Brooks


Then you have to look at the market and ask who is realistically available who we would make an improvement to our front three. The choices are pretty limited overall. Anyone who would be a starter is going to cost over 80m.

The players that have been discussed here show what our other options would be:

Dembele
Diego Costa
Perisic
Chiesa
Sarr

Ranging from good but injury prone and expensive, to bang average.

Improving our team needs to be done for example we could go into the season and just buy a CB and LB instead, but that still leaves us with our backup to the front three being James, Lingard or Mata, none of which provide anything.

Add to that, Salah or Mane going to barca/real/juve, etc means Liverpool could be in a position to steal Sancho away next year (alongside other clubs) ,and many people believe if we don't take him on this year, he may be gone forever.

Traore?

 

[DevilRed]

You needed to see the video to realize that? It has been clear for weeks

I try to be optimistic. Thinking it would be like Maguire, where we would make sure we could get the lowest possible price or at least just pay the asking.

We have a bunch of clowns that negotiate these deals for us. Non-football clowns.

 

[DevilRed]

Haha. What did he say? Roughly.

Its a must watch for any fan. You need to see it for yourself because he covers so many topics and gives you an inside view as to how the club was run before vs. how it is run by idiots now.

He is very diplomatic about it. Doesn't blame Ed entirely. Just that they aren't footballing men. We went from sending SAF and David Gill to sending lawyers and accountants to close deals.

He pours his heart out. Clearly he is hurting like most of us fans are.

 

[Turnip]

Its a must watch for any fan. You need to see it for yourself because he covers so many topics and gives you an inside view as to how the club was run before vs. how it is run by idiots now.

He is very diplomatic about it. Doesn't blame Ed entirely. Just that they aren't footballing men. We went from sending SAF and David Gill to sending lawyers and accountants to close deals.

He pours his heart out. Clearly he is hurting like most of us fans are.

Painful to watch really, makes me more and more convinced whatever we do in the summer and whatever we do with Ole is completely irelevant, other than a lot of luck we're never going to amount to anything with this set of owners and Ed in charge. Also, I have that mug, who knew Evra shops at Sports Direct?

 

[LisburnWhite]

I don't think there is anyone actually left on the ship. Those who are claiming to be on the ship, are really floating around in the water holding on to any flotsam that they can get their hands on. They like to cry out 'big sancho day', 'happy sancho day' etc. to get the attention of people who are leaving in the lifeboats.

Don't know what all this talk is about a ship, it's never been a ship, always a train.

 

[londonredmaniac]

1111 pages

 

[Okey]

Oh well, at least this thread hit the record. So have levels of dejection. Time to put Disturbed on repeat...

 

[Posh Red]

Painful to watch really, makes me more and more convinced whatever we do in the summer and whatever we do with Ole is completely irelevant, other than a lot of luck we're never going to amount to anything with this set of owners and Ed in charge. Also, I have that mug, who knew Evra shops at Sports Direct?

I also have this mug. Got it in secret Santa.

Much like Pat, any joy I get from United is mainly from my mug right now.

 

[peridigm]

Its a must watch for any fan. You need to see it for yourself because he covers so many topics and gives you an inside view as to how the club was run before vs. how it is run by idiots now.

He is very diplomatic about it. Doesn't blame Ed entirely. Just that they aren't footballing men. We went from sending SAF and David Gill to sending lawyers and accountants to close deals.

He pours his heart out. Clearly he is hurting like most of us fans are.

LPT. Watch this at 1.5x speed.

 

[FreddieTheReddie]

Don't know what all this talk is about a ship, it's never been a ship, always a train.

Some people accidentally took a ship back in July, now they are surprised to see icebergs, jumping into the ocean while we are preparing for the biggest party on the Sacho train. Choo choo

 

[Verminator]

Painful to watch really, makes me more and more convinced whatever we do in the summer and whatever we do with Ole is completely irelevant, other than a lot of luck we're never going to amount to anything with this set of owners and Ed in charge. Also, I have that mug, who knew Evra shops at Sports Direct?

Juan Mata shops at Sports Direct.
My mother spoke to him last year.
She told me he had been there, after he'd left.

 

[do.ob]

Nowhere near his prime - true. Already "so good" is more debateable. He hasn't really stood out when playing for England so far. And playing in the Bundesliga is less challenging than playing in the Prem.

If Son is better (and I'd say he clearly is), and if Son is not worth £108m (which he isn't, by a long chalk), then it seems to me that your £108m valuation argument for Sancho is based mostly on his young age and your belief that (a) he'd adapt well to the Prem; and (b) will improve to the point where he becomes not just better than Son, but much better than Son.

I would have thought that United could far better spend £108m in other ways than on such a risky punt.

Ah yes, the good old Heung-Min-Son-Price-Index (HMSPI) for player evaluation.

 

[BlueHaze]

Its a must watch for any fan. You need to see it for yourself because he covers so many topics and gives you an inside view as to how the club was run before vs. how it is run by idiots now.

He is very diplomatic about it. Doesn't blame Ed entirely. Just that they aren't footballing men. We went from sending SAF and David Gill to sending lawyers and accountants to close deals.

He pours his heart out. Clearly he is hurting like most of us fans are.

Should make an own thread just for that video. Hits hard seing a legend being so deflated about the club.

 

[Tapori]

Slow mo of Utd against a German side. Clive Tyldsley’s voice fades up. “Will Manchester United fold? They always fold.”

Haha, top comment

 

[Tapori]

Its a must watch for any fan. You need to see it for yourself because he covers so many topics and gives you an inside view as to how the club was run before vs. how it is run by idiots now.

He is very diplomatic about it. Doesn't blame Ed entirely. Just that they aren't footballing men. We went from sending SAF and David Gill to sending lawyers and accountants to close deals.

He pours his heart out. Clearly he is hurting like most of us fans are.

Man, they even destroyed this mans seemingly unending enthusiasm

 

[Tapori]

1111 pages

What's the Muppet record?

 

[LoneStar]

Should make an own thread just for that video. Hits hard seing a legend being so deflated about the club.

If you’ve watched the whole thing, could you summarise please?

 

[Denis' cuff]

Some interesting stuff there Patrice.

After saying Gill and Fergie went to Monaco to speak to him, he says he is now hearing chairmen from other clubs saying ”can somebody tell me how to get hold of Matt Judge”. He can’t even be bothered answering his phone. Doesn’t think it is so much the Glazers or even Woody, but the people they put their trust in. We need the right people, football people, to do the business. Also calls out former players to speak out instead of being afraid of treading on anyone’s toes and losing favour at the club.

Top lad, Pat.

 

[United58]

What's the Muppet record?

I think this is it!

 

[Himannv]

I’m bored to tears of this so can’t be bothered to read through pages from last time I was in this thread, someone just tell me what’s actually happening ? I don’t mind the long version or the short version as both are quicker than 50 odd pages.

We're monitoring the situation.

 

[Zehner]

Nowhere near his prime - true. Already "so good" is more debateable. He hasn't really stood out when playing for England so far. And playing in the Bundesliga is less challenging than playing in the Prem.

If Son is better (and I'd say he clearly is), and if Son is not worth £108m (which he isn't, by a long chalk), then it seems to me that your £108m valuation argument for Sancho is based mostly on his young age and your belief that (a) he'd adapt well to the Prem; and (b) will improve to the point where he becomes not just better than Son, but much better than Son.

I would have thought that United could far better spend £108m in other ways than on such a risky punt.

You're always paying for potential when signing young players. That being said, I'd take Sancho over Son (who's one hell of a player) even in the short term. Sancho's the biggest talent I've seen in the Bundesliga besides maybe Götze and he's already utilizing his potential to an impressive level. Based on stats he's already joining the Messi/Neymar/Mbappe/Cristiano group of productivity. Son is not in the same region, and definitely wasn't even close to it when he was ~20. And the eye test confirms that - Sancho is capable of things very, very few players are capable of.

Playing the Bundesliga card is also a bit ironic when you are arguing in favor of Son. He does much better in the EPL than he did in the Bundesliga. Actually, few Leverkusen fans would've thought that he could become the player he is today.

 

[BlueHaze]

If you’ve watched the whole thing, could you summarise please?

Talked a lot about how disgracefully we are being run since the departure of SAF and Gill. Even said when we are out to sign a target they send lawyers instead of people attached to the club who can convince them to join and give them an idea and introduction to the club. He said Ole has now tried to change this trend by directly reaching out to players. Even said Roy Keane once came to carrington to give a speech to the players and some of the young lads didn't even know who he was.

Absolutely shameless stuff, just watch it and hear for yourself.

 

[bondsname]

Dont even want this transfer at this point. There will way to much pressure on him now, and every little mistake will be highlighted, and his price tag will be mentioned all the time. I'm not calling him mentally weak, but he's a young man and I think a toxic environment is the last thing he needs.


We've been craving a right winger for years and he is supposed to fix that issue all by himself. Can he handle that? What happens when the pundits the media, the fans start calling for his head? Should he come here, get the number 7 shirt and hit the ground running?

Besides, if we have limited cash we shouldn't spend it all on a high risk high reward player, we should sell our deadwood and actually use our scouting system, if there is one. Lots of clubs have spent money this transfer window but they have been sensible additions, no one has attempted to buy Sancho other than United. Right wing is an issue, but if a 20 year old player who costs 120 million is the only option, maybe we should look elsewhere. Sancho can't be the only player in the world who could improve us. There has to be other options.

 

[caid]

Ah yes, the good old Heung-Min-Son-Price-Index (HMSPI) for player evaluation.

Its a pretty silly point as i suspect Son would probably cost as much. Not that they'd sell to us.

 

[LoneStar]

Talked a lot about how disgracefully we are being run since the departure of SAF and Gill. Even said when we are out to sign a target they send lawyers instead of people attached to the club who can convince them to join and give them an idea and introduction to the club. He said Ole has now tried to change this trend by directly reaching out to players. Even said Roy Keane once came to carrington to give a speech to the players and some of the young lads didn't even know who he was.

Absolutely shameless stuff, just watch it and hear for yourself.

That sounds bad if it’s true (and why wouldn’t it be). Depressing read, our club slowly becoming mediocre every day.

 

[Redcy]

Traore?

wolves have no need to sell, my guess is they’d want 60-70m at minimum

 

[mazhar13]

That sounds bad if it’s true (and why wouldn’t it be). Depressing read, our club slowly becoming mediocre every day.

It is true. The Athletic had a lengthy article that highlighted how Woodward under the Glazers stopped focusing on building relations (with sponsors, to be exact, but this can apply to other teams, their players, etc.). This has resulted in us losing that amicability and family feel that the club had under Gill and Sir Alex, and Ole's trying to bring that back himself. The people at the top, however, would also need to change their ways, and I don't see that happening unless we get another director in to take over and change the culture.

The club's directors are basically riding on United's huge profile and hoping that this helps them get their deals done. This works for sponsorships, but as we've seen with transfers, the club needs to be more outgoing.

 

[Kajus]

Nowhere near his prime - true. Already "so good" is more debateable. He hasn't really stood out when playing for England so far. And playing in the Bundesliga is less challenging than playing in the Prem.

If Son is better (and I'd say he clearly is), and if Son is not worth £108m (which he isn't, by a long chalk), then it seems to me that your £108m valuation argument for Sancho is based mostly on his young age and your belief that (a) he'd adapt well to the Prem; and (b) will improve to the point where he becomes not just better than Son, but much better than Son.

I would have thought that United could far better spend £108m in other ways than on such a risky punt.

This is my personal opinion (and many people will probably disagree given that this is the Sancho thread) but I would much rather have Son than Sancho. However, how do you determine how much the player is 'worth'? We can debate all night long about how much Son is worth, but the only relevant question is how much would Spurs accept for him. And I imagine it would take more than the 108 millions.

 

[dev1l]

It is true. The Athletic had a lengthy article that highlighted how Woodward under the Glazers stopped focusing on building relations (with sponsors, to be exact, but this can apply to other teams, their players, etc.). This has resulted in us losing that amicability and family feel that the club had under Gill and Sir Alex, and Ole's trying to bring that back himself. The people at the top, however, would also need to change their ways, and I don't see that happening unless we get another director in to take over and change the culture.

The club's directors are basically riding on United's huge profile and hoping that this helps them get their deals done. This works for sponsorships, but as we've seen with transfers, the club needs to be more outgoing.

Very interesting insight

 

[Garethw]

After seeing that Evra video I’d bet money that he’s heard that that this isn’t happening.