Why does every single team in England play the same way against Liverpool? (i.e playing out from the back)

Cheimoon said:
Of course, I'm not disputing that. But people seem to think that a side that's used to pressing aggressively could effectively switch to sitting deep from one match to another. That just won't work. Well, they can try, but it won't be done very well. In practice, Plan B won't be completely different from Plan A; it's rather about tweaking things so different aspects of play are emphasized.

Of course, if you have examples of teams that really did manage to deploy radically different tactics/systems from one match to another, or even within matches, then I would happily stand corrected and be very interested to learn more. (I don't mean that sarcastically. Somehow it looks like that, but I'd be genuinely interested.)
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Yeah, I don't think it's rife, tactical experts that is. Or teams capable of radically different styles, as you say. But not playing out from the back against a very aggressive pressing side that happens to be much better than all of their opponents is playing into their hands.

I guess a team like Burnley with two tall boys up top is something Liverpool would find tougher to deal with. But as people have said here, you can pass out to the wings, even if it means their forward pushing full backs could have an overload if you lose the ball. Ole set us up quite defensively against Liverpool but it worked for the most part, I think we switched off for a moment and that was enough for them. But that's what you need to do against them, negate them and - has to be said - play quite negative football, which I am absolutely fine with when you come up against a much better team.
 
Liverpool's main strengths are

1. Relentless high pressing - a combination of fitness, motivation and coaching / tactics
2. Their two flanks - Robertson and Mane on one side and TAA and Salah on the other.
3. Lack of injuries

Thats it
 
Some of your posters need to become managers or football tacticians. You seem to know how to stop Liverpool from playing their usual game, but qualified managers aren't? I think most managers have tried targeting their fullbacks or hoofing the ball to a target man or into the flanks which sometimes it has worked, but we have to also remember that Liverpool can also deploy one of their midfielders to make late runs into the box which may also disrupt the other teams tactics
 
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Bastian said:
Yeah, I don't think it's rife, tactical experts that is. Or teams capable of radically different styles, as you say. But not playing out from the back against a very aggressive pressing side that happens to be much better than all of their opponents is playing into their hands.

I guess a team like Burnley with two tall boys up top is something Liverpool would find tougher to deal with. But as people have said here, you can pass out to the wings, even if it means their forward pushing full backs could have an overload if you lose the ball. Ole set us up quite defensively against Liverpool but it worked for the most part, I think we switched off for a moment and that was enough for them. But that's what you need to do against them, negate them and - has to be said - play quite negative football, which I am absolutely fine with when you come up against a much better team.
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Actually, I think I've read that Nagelsmann can make his team switch styles relatively significantly, even during games; but I don't know what that really means. Likely not a complete reversal of styles. In fact, Ole might be another example, as he seemed to switch styles quite a bit when playing Man City and Liverpool last season. (But then many on here would say that he doesn't have a set style to being with. ;) )

Anyway, I think we agree on this. My comment was really about criticism I see fairly often about someone like Rodgers, who apparently should be able to let his team play like Burnley when the opponent is clearly superior. (Although that's a bad example just after Leicester's trashing of Man City! :D ) But yeah, if you know you're up against one of the best pressing sides in the country, simply telling your defence to play the ball over the press more often seems like a fairly simple tweak. (Although it'll result in percentage balls that you are not set up for and might lose a lot.)
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
You’d like to think the better teams would analyse how Simeone set up to beat them at Anfield in the UCL. That was a tactical masterclass and shows you need a combination of a top class drilled system and very good players to implement it to stand any chance against this Liverpool team these days.
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No, because Simeone and Atletico play like that against everyone. Atletico sets up like this against Elbar and Malaga, and they are really good at playing like this because they do it all the time. If it was that easy to switch styles then Simeone would be able to dominate possession and play expansive football against smaller teams but he can't. Ditto for Burnley, they may give Liverpool a tough game because of how they play but they do the same thing against Villa.

@Cheimoon has hit the nail on the head. Most top teams have an identified style and method of play that has been honed on the training ground for months and months. Top teams work so hard on their Plan A that there is little time to develop a significantly different Plan B that is just as effective.

Of course you can make adjustments to your plan A depending on the nuances of the opponent but it will be a minor deviation from how you usually play.
 
And with regards to playing out the back, there are times to hoof it but if your defense can't learn to pass the ball out under pressure then there is only so far you will be able to go as a team. The opportunities available once you can pass out of the press make it worth persisting with. Plus, defenders are footballers to, what's with this obsession for oafs only good at destructive play and little else?
 
In the league last season only Sheff Utd.. Wolves.. Burnley and Southampton played more long balls than Liverpool... Interestingly we played the least long balls followed by City then Arsenal.. However last season only City put in more crosses than Liverpool.. yet only Newcastle.. Palace and Norwich put in less crosses than what we did... Also finally Liverpool also scored the most goals from counter attacks which was almost twice the amount of what we managed.
 
Wayne's World said:
I literally don't think I could think of anything more suicidal in English football is to try and play your way out from the back against a team who press as high as Liverpool. You are basically playing to their strengths by inviting the press on and letting the likes of Mane, Firmino and Salah to come right up and force a mistake from your backline. Watching Arsenal tonight and why would you want Rob Holding trying to dribble his way out from the back? He's not capable of doing it so why would you insist on it?

I actually think Klopp must be pissing himself laughing every night that he's system and style has still not been figured out yet he's been in the league since 2015. Five years he's been in England yet nobody seems to still know how to play against them and he can allow his full-backs to play as basically wingers for 80% of their games in the Premier League

Looking forward to Mings at the weekend trying to play it out from the back to an eventual mistake to allow Liverpool to score again.
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Because its the new fad, like when Barcelona were on top and everyone was raving about tiki taka. I completely agree with you, Klopp wants his opponents to try and play their way out so that his pressing players are effective in stealing the ball in dangerous areas leading to chances. Thats the point of the Gegenpress.

What they dont want is pacy attacking players on the end of a good long pass on the counter. That leaves lots of Liverpool players out of position and their high backline exposed. Its the risk they take by pressing so far up the pitch.
 
adexkola said:
And with regards to playing out the back, there are times to hoof it but if your defense can't learn to pass the ball out under pressure then there is only so far you will be able to go as a team. The opportunities available once you can pass out of the press make it worth persisting with. Plus, defenders are footballers to, what's with this obsession for oafs only good at destructive play and little else?
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Its not a hoof when you play a ball for a teammate to run onto. Thats a great pass
 
Time to bring back the footballing individuals.

Players these days are athletes with little imagination that are too scared to take on a man 1v1. They rely heavily on passing their way out of trouble which falls into the pressing trap.

Simple answer, get your self a team of selfish dribblers who can ride 1/2 challenges all over the pitch and you're off to a winner.

Oh and don't forget a target man up top. Fellaini or Carroll will do the job.
 
because managers all have an arrogance to think they can get there team to beat the press, simple way is to not play out from the back, attack there weakness at the back which is the full backs, look at what leeds done to them, barca used to do the same for years under pep, looked unbeatable then all of a sudden it will get figured out and everyone will copy it and will be up to klopp to find a different gameplan, same happened at dortmond,
 
Think the way we could approach it would be by playing two of Martial/Rashford/Greenwood as split strikers, with Fernandes as a false nine. We could play a purely physical/tenacious midfield of Matic, Fred and McTominay. Or more likely, Pogba starting in place of McTominay. We would have to be brave in position though and a lot more comfortable when pressed.
 
adexkola said:
That's... Passing... Out of the back then

I'm talking about hoofs where you're expecting your striker to contend for the header or second ball in order to start attacking moves.
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Who is "hoofing" it? other than teams with a 6'3 striker who is only good in the air?
 
Ekeke said:
Who is "hoofing" it? other than teams with a 6'3 striker who is only good in the air?
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Not many good teams. That's my point.

Your defenders need to be good at passing. Whether that is short tiki-taka to bypass a pressing striker or an accurate long ball to set free a winger hanging off the opponent's back line.
 
Libano said:
Might also be a matter of pride as teams not playing out from the back are perceived as technically inferior. No coach wants that reputation.
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I mean, they are.

It's not a matter of pride, it's just that having defenders only good going one way lowers the peak your team performance can reach. The best teams of the past 20 years had back lines that were proficient going both ways.
 
adexkola said:
I mean, they are.

It's not a matter of pride, it's just that having defenders only good going one way lowers the peak your team performance can reach. The best teams of the past 20 years had back lines that were proficient going both ways.
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Without a doubt. But when you are the worse team and the chance of losing the ball playing out is higher than losing it booting it up the pitch, you should accept reality and do the latter.
 
It's a conspiracy amongst the other 19 teams to help Liverpool win the PL.
 
Liverpool are a machine. You are very unlikely to get anything from them punting long balls because Van Dijk is huge, all their back 4 are good in the air, even Robbo for a little guy. So losing headers immediately sees the ball come straight back at you because they are first to the second ball. Trying to keep it see's them press you to death, you spend less time with them attacking your goal but when they do make the dispossession they are in a better spot. Its a choose how you die kind of thing.
 
It just illustrates the point that at the top level, you simply cannot afford to have players on the pitch in 2020 that aren't comfortable with the ball on the feet. They will get singled out by any good pressing machine. It also makes pressing resistant midfielders like Thiago, Modric or Veratti indispensable. They can drop back in between the CB's and help dismantle a pressing trap.
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
You’d like to think the better teams would analyse how Simeone set up to beat them at Anfield in the UCL. That was a tactical masterclass and shows you need a combination of a top class drilled system and very good players to implement it to stand any chance against this Liverpool team these days.
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Not exactly a tactical masterclass from Simeone as someone said above, Atletico play that way in every match, not just against us.
Also, we beat them 1-0 over 90 mins and then went 2-0 up on the night in extra time, but it was a howler from Adrian in goal that let them get the away goal that they needed. We then opened up loads to try and score and they picked us off on the counter.
 
Libano said:
Without a doubt. But when you are the worse team and the chance of losing the ball playing out is higher than losing it booting it up the pitch, you should accept reality and do the latter.
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I can accept that, but as someone else said it's picking your poison, you'll die either way. Also, if you're trying to add this skill to your team, there is a steep learning curve, mistakes will be made along the way. Pep's first season in the PL come to mind.

Now if you don't play out the back and just boot it, you won't look silly while dying!!
 
adexkola said:
I can accept that, but as someone else said it's picking your poison, you'll die either way. Also, if you're trying to add this skill to your team, there is a steep learning curve, mistakes will be made along the way. Pep's first season in the PL come to mind.
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Or De Boer at Palace. Not saying that he would have succeeded if he'd had more time, but firing him just a few games in while he's trying to completely overhaul team tactics was ridiculously short-sighted. You have to accept a low period in the short-term if you want to implement this sort of thing in the long-term. (Or just hire Hodgson and give up on that approach. It's worked well for Palace at least.)
 
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