Our lack of intensity isn't due to being "unfit" or "tiredness"

[Skills]

It seems like our squad is perpetually either not fit (some excuse about the lack of pre-season) or as that excuses looks sillier it becomes an issue of "tiredness". Neither of the these two things seem to be as much of a chronic problem at other clubs.

What we're actually seeing isn't "unfit" players or "tired" players. It's just a lack of intensity. On and off the ball we don't play with a real purpose. We don't close the ball down as a team with a real purpose or intent behind it, neither do we pass or move the ball with any purpose. It's why we look cumbersome so people try and excuse this off as a "fitness" issue and then "tiredness".

You don't need 11 Ngolo Kantes to play with intensity. You just need to close space and press as a unit, and have a plan when you move the ball so players can play a lot quicker rather than decide their next move once the ball is at their feet.

Anyone else agree?

 

[L1nk]

Well either none, and I mean none, of the players can be bothered, or it's a problem with the manager, take your pick really

 

[romufc]

It seems like our squad is perpetually either not fit (some excuse about the lack of pre-season) or as that excuses looks sillier it becomes an issue of "tiredness". Neither of the these two things seem to be as much of a chronic problem at other clubs.

What we're actually seeing isn't "unfit" players or "tired" players. It's just a lack of intensity. On and off the ball we don't play with a real purpose. We don't close the ball down as a team with a real purpose or intent behind it, neither do we pass or move the ball with any purpose. It's why we look cumbersome so people try and excuse this off as a "fitness" issue and then "tiredness".

You don't need 11 Ngolo Kantes to play with intensity. You just need to close space and press as a unit, and have a plan when you move the ball so players can play a lot quicker rather than decide their next move once the ball is at their feet.

Anyone else agree?

Agreed. This is something I was guilty of in the back end of last season, giving the players and manager an easy time for being tired.

Since then, I have had time to reflect and I think this is all down to the manager on how he prepares the players.

Games against West Ham and Southampton we blamed tiredness. Well, Liverpool last 2 seasons have almost played the same 11 in PL and CL and their intensity is still there.

Spurs have played like a game every 3 days for the last two weeks, we have had 4 games as well this season so no one can say our players are unit anymore. Spurs showed more intensity. Kane played Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday.

I am not buying tiredness as an excuse. How can we be tired and unfit? Didnt Ole say he wants the fittest team in the league? where is the evidence of that 2 years on? we look the most unfit team in the league.

Tired? Shaw hasnt played since July, Bailly hasnt played much football in 2020. Pogba, Rashford havent played much football this year.

 

[VorZakone]

It's a tiring excuse.

I bet if Utd had a more busy pre-season and others not the excuse would be "they had more rest compared to us because of our busy pre-season".

 

[R.N7]

That's what bad coaching does to you.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Thread like this and this are a good way to work out if a lack of fitness/effort is an issue. It’s not a new problem, that’s for damn sure.

 

[bosnian_red]

Off the ball pressing as a unit is definitely a coaching thing, 100%. If you don't have a good system but press in bits and pieces, loads of space opens up, players have more space to cover to press, get demotivated when its easily surpassed, etc.

 

[clarkydaz]

When Ole first came in he was shocked at their fitness and said we should be the fittest team in the land. What happened?

 

[MUFC OK]

Ole has to be doing more, are these players scared of him? Does he have enough discipline? what are the repercussions of that god awful performance at the weekend? The intensity is set by the players themselves but mainly by the manager.

I'm sure pretty much no one would agree because of his 'negative, anti-football' but I'd love to see us become a nasty team under Simeone, a unit where nothing but 100% effort is good enough. We lack intensity and almost seem to stumble upon good patterns of play, if we get them at all.

 

[Smores]

It's just players sticking to the positions they're told to in my view. We have a very obvious tactic of when the opposition defence has possession Bruno goes up with Martial to do a half arsed press.

Then Pogba and Matic are usually so deep that it's easy to pass into midfield. If we win the ball back Bruno is so high he's unavailable for a good 10 seconds whilst we slowly progess up the pitch and then the opposition is set. Repeat.

 

[FreakyJim]

It seems like our squad is perpetually either not fit (some excuse about the lack of pre-season) or as that excuses looks sillier it becomes an issue of "tiredness". Neither of the these two things seem to be as much of a chronic problem at other clubs.

What we're actually seeing isn't "unfit" players or "tired" players. It's just a lack of intensity. On and off the ball we don't play with a real purpose. We don't close the ball down as a team with a real purpose or intent behind it, neither do we pass or move the ball with any purpose. It's why we look cumbersome so people try and excuse this off as a "fitness" issue and then "tiredness".

You don't need 11 Ngolo Kantes to play with intensity. You just need to close space and press as a unit, and have a plan when you move the ball so players can play a lot quicker rather than decide their next move once the ball is at their feet.

Anyone else agree?

I wholeheartedly agree.

I hate the way United play, I've hated if for a long time, even in Fergie's last years when we still won titles. We're always on the back foot against good teams (actually most teams nowadays), always surrender the middle and drop deep. It's because we can't and don't really know how to impose ourselves. We don't go out to outplay good teams, we go out to "hit them on the counter, if we can", like some bottom half Stoke-like small timers.
It's so much easier just do drop deep and wait.

We used to be dominant. We used to just throw bodies upfront when things went wrong and just be relentless, hammering on the opposition til they surrender, so many late goals... But that's long gone.

I thought Ole would bring something different but he isn't, so far. And nothing suggests he will.

 

[El Zoido]

It’s not that they lack fitness, they lack focus and concentration. Bruno said in the interview after the Brighton game that they weren’t aggressive enough, a lot of our players just don’t “turn up” to games. They don’t play like they want to win. It’s got nothing to do with coaching drills, it’s a mental thing, and it’s been going on for years. Don’t know about Ole being scary enough or whatever, Jose and LVG fit that mould and we had the same issues with them too.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

When Ole first came in he was shocked at their fitness and said we should be the fittest team in the land. What happened?

Yeah, he damned himself with those comments. You can’t come in and set out such a clear goal then finish each season looking like one of the least fit teams in the league.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Wolves have been slapped 4-0 at Westham and looked very average beating an awful Fulham just 1-0. City got slapped at home to Leicester 5-2 and were probably lucky to come away with a pt at Leeds.

I'm sorry but this is a valid excuse and anyone who pretends the differing lengths of pre seasons aren't making a mockery of this season are living in cloud cuckoo land.

United City n Wolves have effectively been punished for going further in Europe. Absolute joke.

 

[AneRu]

It’s not that they lack fitness, they lack focus and concentration. Bruno said in the interview after the Brighton game that they weren’t aggressive enough, a lot of our players just don’t “turn up” to games. They don’t play like they want to win. It’s got nothing to do with coaching drills, it’s a mental thing, and it’s been going on for years. Don’t know about Ole being scary enough or whatever, Jose and LVG fit that mould and we had the same issues with them too.

Agree with this, one rotten tomato in the basket will eventually ruin the whole basket. We have deadwood taking up millions and not contributing which sends out the wrong message and wrong vibes in a group. In team sports these things mess up the group dynamics that always have to be spot on.

 

[Oldyella]

Well either none, and I mean none, of the players can be bothered, or it's a problem with the manager, take your pick really

You see players do it occasionally, but it's so sporadic and often solo that the player who does just gets the ball passed around them and they look around to see team mates stood around. Hate to say it but that is on the coaching.

 

[Ish]

It's a tiring excuse.

I bet if Utd had a more busy pre-season and others not the excuse would be "they had more rest compared to us because of our busy pre-season".

Possibly

 

[11101]

Some of it is definitely fitness/tiredness related after our shortened summer, but not all.

Mostly we lack desire. We dont know how to win and we dont have players who do. Nobody in team is setting standards or giving us any bite. When we are up, we lack the desire to go and rack up a cricket score, and when we are under pressure we fall apart. Nobody is there forcing things to happen and pushing us.

Maybe Bruno brings that, it remains to be seen, but we need more than just one. Even Pogba, he was in a team that was so much better than everybody else, they hardly had to dig deep in that World Cup.

 

[Fletchageddon]

Lads, do some research on Jürgen Klopps doctors and fitness teams he brought over from Germany (and the doctor they tried to steal from Bayern as he fell out with Pep at the time).

Do some research on Pep Guardiola and his medical team, watch the Amazon doc and see the Man City players miracle recoveries.

Our players can't keep up with that over a whole season. Add in the fact that Ole doesn't trust anyone outside his first 11 really and that leads to being knackered.

We had no preseason. Preseason is the foundations on which you build your fitness. You recover and then you train hard, overtrain and then you rest alot which leads to supercompensation and a much higher level of fitness. You can't train hard if you have games every week, you need that break.

We haven't recovered from last season and we don't have enough good players to rotate. It's a scheduling, ethics and standard of squad problem. Hopefully the new signings will allow us more rotation and recovery.

 

[Glorio]

Wolves have been slapped 4-0 at Westham and looked very average beating an awful Fulham just 1-0. City got slapped at home to Leicester 5-2 and were probably lucky to come away with a pt at Leeds.

I'm sorry but this is a valid excuse and anyone who pretends the differing lengths of pre seasons aren't making a mockery of this season are living in cloud cuckoo land.

United City n Wolves have effectively been punished for going further in Europe. Absolute joke.

Simple logic - sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.

Between Jan and the lockdown, we regularly outworked teams and pressed as a unit quite well, just after the lockdown we did the same, but surely you recognise that with a compressed schedule like ours was and being involved in 2 or 3 cup competitions - it would play a role in player fitness?

We all knew it would, we all suggested bench options, we all saw how those options failed which led Ole to stick to his first 11 for most of that crazy schedule. Why are we suddenly trying to act like none of that matters?

If you've watched us play pre-season games, the first few games are dire, and most times we struggle against teams in the MLS or Chinese leagues, which are light years behind PL opposition. Why on earth do we feel we'd just come in and smash PL teams that had full pre-seasons with no real preparation? Particularly when those teams rested longer than us, and had close to full pre-seasons. Our players are missing 5 yard passes - you can do whatever you want with systems, but when those basics are not up to scratch, you'll struggle.

More established coaches who've had a similar schedule have suffered as well, but hey, let's all ignore that.

 

[Greyfog]

I think for this season it is due to the quick turnaround and not enough time for rest. City's pressing in games have also dropped off massively after 30 minutes or so and they had similar prep. The boys will come good after a few matches but so will other clubs and it will boil down to which manager can get the most out of his players.

 

[Bilbo]

It would be fascinating to see some our training sessions, that's for sure. The best fitness experts in the world would struggle with a group of players who aren't up for getting there, and I think there is still clear evidence of cultural issues within the club.

 

[Bastian]

Lads, do some research on Jürgen Klopps doctors and fitness teams he brought over from Germany (and the doctor they tried to steal from Bayern as he fell out with Pep at the time).

Do some research on Pep Guardiola and his medical team, watch the Amazon doc and see the Man City players miracle recoveries.

Our players can't keep up with that over a whole season. Add in the fact that Ole doesn't trust anyone outside his first 11 really and that leads to being knackered.

We had no preseason. Preseason is the foundations on which you build your fitness. You recover and then you train hard, overtrain and then you rest alot which leads to supercompensation and a much higher level of fitness. You can't train hard if you have games every week, you need that break.

We haven't recovered from last season and we don't have enough good players to rotate. It's a scheduling, ethics and standard of squad problem. Hopefully the new signings will allow us more rotation and recovery.

It's not even about how we stack up compared to others, you don't need any contrast - just what you want to see a team doing regardless of how others do. We've looked disorganised and undecided in our patterns of play. I absolutely buy the tiredness excuse to a degree, pre-season is hugely important and we didn't have one. However, it is then the manager's and club's job to work around that. That may mean give extended rest to those who will benefit from that greatly and go with those who aren't in a similar state. But that tiredness explanation was more apt towards the end of the domestic season, as it was clear for all to see that the players were knackered.

A lot of this falls on the manager - he's said he wants a team that works harder than their opponents and we've not really seen that. There are quite a few players who either can't or will not fit into that vision, and that's outside of their footballing intelligence, which is clearly also an issue for some.

A manager has to have 100% buy-in from his players, if not, out they go.

 

[Foxbatt]

It is not tiredness for sure. Tiredness does not start in the 5th minute. Yes if they are tired in the second half I can agree. If we cannot press then why the heck are we pressing at all? This is entirely down to Ole and his coaching staff. If we cannot play a pressing game by the 10 outfield players then forget about it. Play a different style. Just because Klopp plays a pressing game does not mean we have to do it.
Teams play in different styles and win matches. We should play the best one that suits the players we have.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

What about you lot who denied the lack of fitness go re-watch our games when we beat City, Chelsea & Spurs. How did our players who work their socks off, press opposition and win 2nd ball in those games turned into bunch of lazy with lack of both determination & intensity like in our last three league games? Explain that, we haven’t change our coach and manager and yet the intensity coming from players have changed. Unless if you have been sleeping under the rocks that you didn’t watch us last season then I‘m not surprised that you can’t see the difference. It’s not coincidence that Wolves & City also suffered.

 

[Zlatattack]

A part of it is a lack of fitness, but also a lack of rotation options in the squad. If anyone from our first 11 is playing rubbish, the replacements have been so weak that they're performances aren't even on par with the player they're replacing.

Hopefully we've fixed a bit of that this season. We have options at CB, LB, CM (Pogba can be replacd by VdB) and up front too (Cavani can replace one of the attacking front three and we can swap players around to accomodate him).

Lets see if the replacements are up to scratch. I think the coaching will be reflected on the pitch much better once the manager has an effective stick to go with the carrot.

 

[Water Melon]

It seems like our squad is perpetually either not fit (some excuse about the lack of pre-season) or as that excuses looks sillier it becomes an issue of "tiredness". Neither of the these two things seem to be as much of a chronic problem at other clubs.

What we're actually seeing isn't "unfit" players or "tired" players. It's just a lack of intensity. On and off the ball we don't play with a real purpose. We don't close the ball down as a team with a real purpose or intent behind it, neither do we pass or move the ball with any purpose. It's why we look cumbersome so people try and excuse this off as a "fitness" issue and then "tiredness".

You don't need 11 Ngolo Kantes to play with intensity. You just need to close space and press as a unit, and have a plan when you move the ball so players can play a lot quicker rather than decide their next move once the ball is at their feet.

Anyone else agree?

Agree with the OP. Mostly, intensity is a collective effort. It actually is science. We should have some sports scientists that are supposed to be a part of our coaching team. The better this specialist is, the better the team will synchronize on the pitch.

 

[spiriticon]

If we are tired after 3 games this season we may as well just pack it in.

Lack of match fitness yes, tired no.

 

[Mindhunter]

That's what no coaching does to you.

Fixed.

Phelan was a coach in the wee days of SAF reign. The league has moved on from those days - it's vastly different today. 1 or 2 players in a squad cannot have the same kind of difference because coaches like Guardiola (not recently) and Klopp have made the whole better than the sum of its parts.

What we have to counter that is our erstwhile club captain who just retired and doesn't have any experience in coaching top football teams. While he brings stability and a sense of pride to our players, I don't think he is the best in the business in coaching tactics, patterns of play, game management etc. and we should hire the best in the business. There needs to be some meritocracy starting with our coaches.

 

[VP89]

I think the lack of intensity is the same reason our defence doesn't look organised - the coaching isn't sufficient.

It's becoming very obvious now, too many players look terribly off form, the team as a whole looks rather broken and struggling in sustained control of games. It's identical or worse to the end of Jose's tenure.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

When Ole first came in he was shocked at their fitness and said we should be the fittest team in the land. What happened?

He's still surprised and still hoping

 

[BR7]

It seems like our squad is perpetually either not fit (some excuse about the lack of pre-season) or as that excuses looks sillier it becomes an issue of "tiredness". Neither of the these two things seem to be as much of a chronic problem at other clubs.

What we're actually seeing isn't "unfit" players or "tired" players. It's just a lack of intensity. On and off the ball we don't play with a real purpose. We don't close the ball down as a team with a real purpose or intent behind it, neither do we pass or move the ball with any purpose. It's why we look cumbersome so people try and excuse this off as a "fitness" issue and then "tiredness".

You don't need 11 Ngolo Kantes to play with intensity. You just need to close space and press as a unit, and have a plan when you move the ball so players can play a lot quicker rather than decide their next move once the ball is at their feet.

Anyone else agree?

absolutely although when I made this comment last week saying the players aren’t trying for ole I was told I don’t know what I’m talking about by the inners. Facts are there for every one to see game in game out.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

It's a tiring excuse.

I bet if Utd had a more busy pre-season and others not the excuse would be "they had more rest compared to us because of our busy pre-season".

Indeed, need to forever protect the squad, problem is always external, not internal.

 

[Smores]

What about you lot who denied the lack of fitness go re-watch our games when we beat City, Chelsea & Spurs. How did our players who work their socks off, press opposition and win 2nd ball in those games turned into bunch of lazy with lack of both determination & intensity like in our last three league games? Explain that, we haven’t change our coach and manager and yet the intensity coming from players have changed. Unless if you have been sleeping under the rocks that you didn’t watch us last season then I‘m not surprised that you can’t see the difference. It’s not coincidence that Wolves & City also suffered.

This is now the 3rd stretch of games where fans have claimed that poor performances are due to tiredness. In fact if we're to believe those folk we haven't had a single patch of bad form that isn't anything but tiredness and fatigue.

We'd be a title winning team if it wasn't for the fact that unfortunately through no fault of our own the opposition are never quite as tired.

 

[BR7]

Wow some really good posts one after the other... it’s been a while but good to see

 

[K Stand Knut]

This is a really interesting point and one that I’ve noticed over the past couple of years.

We seem able to press as a team for short periods but never consistently, and arguably never as a full team.

I’ll be really intrigued to see how Cavani makes a difference because everyone keeps banging on about how much he never stops closing defenders down. If he stops now, it’s a tactical instruction

 

[Web of Bissaka]

If we're talking about intensity alone, then it's a combination of player's themselves (their mentality, motivations, morale, etc) and Ole's teams (preparation, coaching, fitness program, etc). It's poor for the start of this season.

It's okay before, talking specifically about Ole's teams. Yes they have their weaknesses, it's clear as day, but just enough really. So before it's more down to the players.

This time is on both the players, manager and coaches. Overall, all of them are poor in preparation and in initiation of this season. Standards have fallen~

 

[romufc]

I think there is a shift in the mood in the fan base. We can pressure the board and everyone else as much as we want, the 15 players we have should be good enough to give any team a game.

We went to Luton, they gave us a game.
Newcastle have issues with their board, the recent managers still give teams a game.

Ole is tactically very poor. We are not competing in games. When was the last time we put in a performance where you went blimey, that was good?

 

[BR7]

This is a really interesting point and one that I’ve noticed over the past couple of years.

We seem able to press as a team for short periods but never consistently, and arguably never as a full team.

I’ll be really intrigued to see how Cavani makes a difference because everyone keeps banging on about how much he never stops closing defenders down. If he stops now, it’s a tactical instruction

Ha, good post but the last sentence smacks of conspiracy theory!!!! It’s the coaching I’m afraid. It’s simple that accompanied by players who don’t seem to want to play for ole.

 

[calodo2003]

Well either none, and I mean none, of the players can be bothered, or it's a problem with the manager, take your pick really

Combination of both. There’s no one currently that can escape culpability.