Web of Bissaka
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You're right, forgot about that. Mata did fine.Only Mata put Rashford on goal for his first opportunity and then also hit a good shot to test Mendy.
You're right, forgot about that. Mata did fine.Only Mata put Rashford on goal for his first opportunity and then also hit a good shot to test Mendy.
Eh? He has played in midfield and he played well. Perhaps a more advanced midfield position than the one I’m suggesting but it’s worth a tryWell we don't know that, van de Beek has never played in midfield for us so time will tell. I'd give him a chance but only if we play 3 at the back. Which makes a lot of sense like you said, as we could also use Telles and have at least one threat coming from the wing.
When did he play for us as a midfielder? Don't recall at all.Eh? He has played in midfield and he played well. Perhaps a more advanced midfield position than the one I’m suggesting but it’s worth a try
Mad that no ones mentioning Pogba any more, by the way.
Pogba and VDB are very different players. VDB does a decent job winning the ball whereas thats where Pogba is lacking. He's more like Fernandes, or someone like Vidal. Aggressive and looking to win the ball even though he has quality in attack. Pogba is just good on the ball, but he is our most creative player from a deep positionIn those 3 games we never lost modfield battle with Fred-McTominay, what happened EVERY TIME Pogba-Matic played. I never said "dominating".
I agree but what do you think would've Pogba done better yesterday to win the game? I don't recall him creating many goalscoring opportunities when playing in midfield recently, and remember we played James and Mata on the wings against 5 Chelsea defenders. It was a tight game in midfield in the first half, definitely not one to risk Pogba dwelling on the ball.
So basically what we failed with Pogba, you want to try now with van de Beek. Makes little sense to go for him in the first place but that's for another discussion.
EDIT: Seems like most people are replying to the thread title without reading the OP.
Well it's 50/50 for me whether he can do a job in midfield better than anyone we have. I don't have high hopes though, from what I've seen he is pure attacking midfielder.Pogba and VDB are very different players. VDB does a decent job winning the ball whereas thats where Pogba is lacking. He's more like Fernandes, or someone like Vidal. Aggressive and looking to win the ball even though he has quality in attack. Pogba is just good on the ball, but he is our most creative player from a deep position
Definitely. It’s something that has to be sorted long term. I think Pogba is the odd one out at the moment, despite being the most talented of all the midfielders we have. Based on trying to fit him in the team, you’re right that a mobile DM is what’s needed. If he leaves, we probably need a more creative defensive midfielder, to go with the energy of McTominay or Fred, like a Carrick or Thiago.The brutal truth is that if we actually had a mobile CDM in there then wouldn't need 2 holding players and midfield could express themselves more
It was clear that Cavani and Greenwood weren't ready to play more than however many minutes they played. Also, Solskjaer has clearly fallen out of love with Ighalo. Didn't have many options if we wanted to remain defensively solid. VDB isn't a winger.As others have said, it's clear as day the problem vs Chelsea is the lack of quality in front.
Not the defense nor midfield.
Rashford is the only one we can rely on and he's the only one that came close on at least 2 separate occasions, while James and Mata barely did anything to break Chelsea defense nor threatening to score, at all. It's on the manager for choosing them and then wasting so many minutes with the duo.
Why is that (bold mark) even a problem? The double pivot midfield job isn’t to score or assist. Let the other 5 or 6 players (front four & full back) to create goals & assists.Fred 50 PL apps
1 goal 1 assist.
Mctominay 62 apps
6 goals 1 assist.
They are both CM who can do a job covering the ground against the big teams. But we sacrifice all creativity from deep playing both.
We need a DM as neither can play the role and this would allow us to play 2 from Pogba,VDB and Bruno.
This.Why is that (bold mark) even a problem? The double pivot midfield job isn’t to score or assist. Let the other 5 or 6 players (front four & full back) to create goals & assists.
They are playing because they do what midfield does, and that is being discipline, going for 2nd ball, track the runners & not being ball watching unlike the other two he dropped after the Brighton & Spurs game. Even when we had Rio, Vidic & Evra, they still got proper discipline midfielder like Carrick & Fletcher in front of them.McT and Fred are playing because Ole can't trust the defence, the same defence he spent 145m on.
Comparing Carrick to McT and Fred is insulting. Carrick passing range and football intelligence was far superior to that of McT and Fred. The duo are better compared to Phil Neville in midfield ie lots of heart and little brains/technique/passing to match. Regarding Fletcher he was a squad player for most of his career and he had more technique then the duo. He was also a squad player for most of the time as well.They are playing because they do what midfield does, and that is being discipline, going for 2nd ball, track the runners & not being ball watching unlike the other two he dropped after the Brighton & Spurs game. Even when we had Rio, Vidic & Evra, they still got proper discipline midfielder like Carrick & Fletcher in front of them.
You are missing the point. It’s not comparing the quality, it’s giving you the idea what the basic thing of every midfielder should do. Carrick & Fletcher don’t do ball watching, they work their shocks off, they track runners & they are going for 2nd ball. McT & Fred know this basic. On the other hand Pogba & Matic didn’t do the basic right against Spurs & Brighton.Comparing Carrick to McT and Fred is insulting. Carrick passing range and football intelligence was far superior to that of McT and Fred. The duo are better compared to Phil Neville in midfield ie lots of heart and little brains/technique/passing to match. Regarding Fletcher he was a squad player for most of his career and he had more technique then the duo. He was also a squad player for most of the time as well.
Balance is important. We used to play Park to balance up the lack of workrate provided by Ronaldo. Then we added Cleverley when Scholes and Giggs were growing old. Italy won the WC with Gattuso doing the dirty work for Pirlo. However balance works both ways and having 3 mules like James, McT and Fred in midfield at the same time shift things to the other way. There's a reason to that and the reason being that the defence need all the protection it can get. Therefore we're forced to play with 2 CBs, 2 defensive FBs and 3 defensive minded midfielders (Fred, McT and James). That 8 players (+ GK) in a team of 11.
Its kind of ironic how the same people who used to criticise Mourinho for parking the park is happy with this combination. Lets hope that Penalto is on form. We will need him.
But it is. Sure Carrick was defensively sound but his passing was top notch. He had 40 assists in the EPL. Fletcher who, I repeat, was a squad player for most of the time had 27 assists. Do you know how many assists had Mctominay and Fred produced? 2 ie one each. How can you possible compare Carrick/Fletcher to these donkeys?You are missing the point. It’s not comparing the quality, it’s giving you the idea what the basic thing of every midfielder should do. Carrick & Fletcher don’t do ball watching, they work their shocks off, they track runners & they are going for 2nd ball. McT & Fred know this basic. On the other hand Pogba & Matic didn’t do the basic right against Spurs & Brighton.
You are missing the point again. The basic to play in midfield isn’t having top notch passing, midfield can not being ball watching and it means they need to track runners, going for 2nd ball and be discipline. Fred, McT, Fletcher, Keane, Butt, Carrick, Scholes are discipline. They know the basic to be midfielder. Pogba and Matic didn’t do the basic against Brighton & Spurs and that’s why they were dropped and Fred & McT are playing, not because of our defense. Even Bruno knows the basic.But it is. Sure Carrick was defensively sound but his passing was top notch. He had 40 assists in the EPL. Fletcher who, I repeat, was a squad player for most of the time had 27 assists. Do you know how many assists had Mctominay and Fred produced? 2 ie one each. How can you possible compare Carrick/Fletcher to these donkeys?
Sir Alex used Scholes as a deep lying playmaker, he used Carrick to bring balance between defence and midfield and he used Fletcher when he occasionally needed more work rate. Surely he used Park as well but unlike Ole who plays with 2 defensive FBs, Sir Alex used Evra and Gaz who could go forward, Rooney and Teveth upfront and of course Ronaldo. That's balance. Having 8 defensive minded players in a squad of 11 players doesn't provide balance. Sure it will cover the arse of a weak defence but it will hurt creativity.
I am not advocating in us playing Matic and Pogba. In fact using the pair is madness. Matic is too static and Pogba is a liability defensive wise. I wonder why Ole took so long to acknowledge that. However he can't go full defence mode either. In my opinion United should use this team
AWB-----Maguire/Lindelof-------Tuanzebe---------------Telles
----------------------Fred--------------VDB--------------------------
------------------------------Bruno-----------------------------------------
Greenwood---------------------------------------------------------Rashy-
-------------------------------Martial--------------------------------------
Tuanzebe provides the pace Maguire/Lindelof lack while VDB is far more hardworking then Pogba is while concurrently can pass the ball something McT can't. Now if Ole feels that the defence need more protection then play Shaw instead of Telles and move Telles as Winger. That's balance.
This isnt the case though.. Football is not about defence does its part, midfield does its part and attack does its part, its a team game.McT and Fred are playing because Ole can't trust the defence, the same defence he spent 145m on.
If workrate alone win games then Stoke would win the treble. However don't make me stop you from comparing McT with Carrick and ScholesYou are missing the point again. The basic to play in midfield isn’t having top notch passing, the basic is not being ball watching and it means they need to track runners, going for 2nd ball and be discipline. Fred, McT, Fletcher, Keane, Butt, Carrick, Scholes are discipline. They know the basic to be midfielder. Even Bruno knows the basic.