2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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SirAF

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Exactly.

On the bright side, from purely anecdotal evidence of folks I know or am related to, I can count about a dozen South Carolinians who voted Trump that regret their vote and are voting Biden this time around. Again - purely anecdotal, but if everyone knows a few people like that, then that adds up. Gotta find hope where you can.
That's at least encouraging. I've seen interviews with similar people in other states. Of course, who knows how representative they are? What seems clear is that there are quite a few of them.
 

Libano

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Exactly. I mean, if the whispers of a Green Deal and as such could become a reality that's great. But what @Libano perhaps doesn't get is that 2020 is about STOPPING the destructive force that is Trump. I don't care if it's Biden, Warren, Saunders or Howard "The Scream" Dean. Trump gotta go.

The next cycle will be about hopfully getting in a more progressive candidate.
No, I get it. Just don't hold your breath waiting for things to get substantially better. These coming years will be the toughest in decades.
 

Kentonio

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Will to action won't be enough when there are no financial means or political unity to execute. They are fighting over collateralizing national debts into Euro bonds. In other words, we are in the midst of a financial endgame.

In hindsight, Brexit may end up being a blessing in disguise. The UK by itself is more maneuverable and actually has a decent military with nuclear capabilities.
Nah, I'd take Germany's economy over pretty much anyone elses any day. If they have the political will to have a powerful military they will have one.
 

SirAF

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No, I get it. Just don't hold your breath waiting for things to get substantially better. These coming years will be the toughest in decades.
Of course things will not be magically better over night, there are a lot of issues in the US that has existed long before Trump. However, what will happen is that the current rot of democracy will be stopped. It will be tough, but the US will be in a better place in 4-8 years then what would be the case with a second Trump term.
 

Libano

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In which world do China, Russia or Turkey threaten the EU with military force? It's a fantasy scenario upheld by the US to justify their overbloated military complex which fills the pockets of few.

In which world is the US such an altruistic nation that it will defend some foreign countries when it does not even care about its own citizens' needs, e. g. lack of first world healthcare system?

If anything US nuclear bombs stationed in Germany makes Germany the primary target in a theoretical war scenario.

Unbelievable to read this stuff on Libcafe of all places.
Turkey is already threatening Greece on a regular basis. That's a reality today.

Global US military presence isn't an altruistic move. It safeguards the position of the Dollar as world reserve currency amongst other things, which means the US can print their way out of trouble where most countries cannot. By buying US bonds, the rest of the world also finances US military expenses.
 

Libano

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Of course things will not be magically better over night, there are a lot of issues in the US that has existed long before Trump. However, what will happen is that the current rot of democracy will be stopped. It will be tough, but the US will be in a better place in 4-8 years then what would be the case with a second Trump term.
The biggest threat to democracy in my view is the global response to Covid. We are going the way of much less democracy, with Trump and with Biden. All these 'emergency laws' that are being put in place are here to stay.

However, I wholeheartedly hope you are proving me wrong.
 

owlo

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As far as I have seen, Trump is up heavily with early voters (how this is known I am unsure, exit polls maybe?) But Biden is said to be well up with mail in ballots. Apparently to the tune of somewhere around 300-500k which is huge if true.

However, that's apparently reflected around most of the country and that is the exact reason Trump and the Republicans will cry rigged election and move heaven and earth to get all mail in ballots discounted due to uncertainty over legitimacy.

Can anyone really see Trump leaving peacefully and without any tricks or attempts to devalue Biden's win or without scorching the earth and taking everything and everyone down with him?
It's not factually incorrect, but it's misleading. I've posted this link before. D+I > R for in person. D > R for mail.

https://countyballotfiles.floridados.gov/VoteByMailEarlyVotingReports/PublicStats
 

langster

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My brain can't get pregnant!

Wow. This thread is a brutal eye opener. Serious problems caused to dozens of people due to Trump's super spreader. It's bad enough holding a rally in the middle of a pandemic but now people are getting sick and putting their lives at risk due to freezing conditions as well.

It's all so fecking unnecessary. :(
 

SirAF

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The biggest threat to democracy in my view is the global response to Covid. We are going the way of much less democracy, with Trump and with Biden. All these 'emergency laws' that are being put in place are here to stay.

However, I wholeheartedly hope you are proving me wrong.
Could not disagree more, but that's not for this thread. Peope who whine about "personal freedom" in relation to COVID makes me furious.
 

Libano

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Nah, I'd take Germany's economy over pretty much anyone elses any day. If they have the political will to have a powerful military they will have one.
This is not up to Germany anymore since WW2. You lose a war, you pay. In more ways than one. The only military a strong German economy will help build at this point is an EU army.
 

Cait Sith

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Turkey is already threatening Greece on a regular basis. That's a reality today.
Elaborate.

Global US military presence isn't an altruistic move. It safeguards the position of the Dollar as world reserve currency amongst other things, which means the US can print their way out of trouble where most countries cannot. By buying US bonds, the rest of the world also finances US military expenses.
Yes, true.
 

Kentonio

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This is not up to Germany anymore since WW2. You lose a war, you pay. In more ways than one. The only military a strong German economy will help build at this point is an EU army.
Sorry but this is nonsense. The post-WW2 era ended with the end of the Cold War. Now we're well into the end of the American century and Germany like the rest of Europe will have to adapt to the new realities of the world. They may well choose to go the route of an EU army (and I really hope they do) but if they want to build it as a primarily German force there is absolutely nothing stopping them.
 

owlo

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Thank you. :)
To expand a little further, assuming R votes trump, D votes Biden, and Biden has a 10 point lead with independents,these are the early voting numbers: [FLORIDA]

Mail:

Biden: 2.335M
Trump: 1.628M

In person:

Biden: 1.231M
Trump: 1.552M

Totals:

Biden: 3.566M
Trump: 3.180M

Biden Lead: 386K

If we assume the lowest end of independent supporrt and give Biden a 3 point lead with independents, here are the numbers:


Mail:

Biden: 2.318M
Trump: 1.671M

In person:

Biden: 1.220M
Trump: 1.580M

Totals:

Biden: 3.538M
Trump: 3.253M

Biden Lead: 285k
 

nimic

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Turkish Lira is a bloodbath but their military is huge. Meanwhile, Germany is de facto demilitarized without allied forces, Brexit has further weakened the EU's military power. The EU simply cannot defend itself effectively without US forces at this point in time.
Defend itself against who, Turkey? What the hell are you talking about? What are you afraid of, a third Siege of Vienna? Never mind living in the Cold War, you're living in the 17th century.
 

Libano

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Sorry but this is nonsense. The post-WW2 era ended with the end of the Cold War. Now we're well into the end of the American century and Germany like the rest of Europe will have to adapt to the new realities of the world. They may well choose to go the route of an EU army (and I really hope they do) but if they want to build it as a primarily German force there is absolutely nothing stopping them.
There are still allied forces on German territory today, including several British Military bases. The post WW2 era has not yet ended, even though the Cold War has.
 

nimic

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Turkey threatening Greece is happening today already. I thought that was widely known. Guess not.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53497741
Turkey and Greece have been threatening each other since the 13th century. Speaking of another broke state, Greece has a tenth of the population of Turkey and a military that is only somewhat smaller. Also, Greece is part of the EU, and they are both part of NATO. If you think Turkey is a threat to the EU, you're out of your mind.
 

MTF

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I have:

"However, around 185 British Army personnel and 60 Ministry of Defence civilians will stay in Germany beyond 2020."
Oh, holy cow. An augmented company (which is actually just personnel maintaining some vehicles and installations). Guess the Russians are really deterred now.

Mainly I have no idea why you started down the entire line that the EU couldn't defend itself from Turkey. I wouldn't put money on Turkey vs just France.
 

Libano

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Mainly I have no idea why you started down the entire line that the EU couldn't defend itself from Turkey. I wouldn't put money on Turkey vs just France.
There is a cool site for comparison. France would need to use nuclear weapons to gain an advantage. Unlikely scenario in my opinion.

https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_France_vs_Turkey

You would be surprised how vulnerable the EU is without US forces.
 

berbatrick

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Just like Bernie 2020, Trump 2020 is too PC SJW to win* :(


*a take by some idiots blaming bernie's loss on him changing his stump speech by 5% to include systemic racism
 

Irwin99

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Trump's ad campaign; 'Look at America today; rioting, looting, social unrest. This is going to be your future if sleepy Joe and the Democrats win. Vote Trump 2020'
 

MTF

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There is a cool site for comparison. France would need to use nuclear weapons to gain an advantage. Unlikely scenario in my opinion.

https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_France_vs_Turkey

You would be surprised how vulnerable the EU is without US forces.
More than half the equipment listed for Turkey is old, things that the US and others retired decades ago. It's just padding the numbers. By that metric you might also think that Russia was superior to the US by virtue of having more than 3x the number of tanks.
 

Kentonio

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I have:

"However, around 185 British Army personnel and 60 Ministry of Defence civilians will stay in Germany beyond 2020."
You genuinely believe 245 people count as a significant number? My companies office has more employees than that.
 

WI_Red

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I'll take it. See my florida numbers above and be even happier!

Ps.

You know you have done sweet f all when one of the 3 people you can find to praise you is your daughter wife.

And that last statement? He should sent Ivanka to my state without a mask and let her walk around UW Med center if he thinks its over. Asshole.
 

Kentonio

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There is a cool site for comparison. France would need to use nuclear weapons to gain an advantage. Unlikely scenario in my opinion.

https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_France_vs_Turkey

You would be surprised how vulnerable the EU is without US forces.
https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp

France isn't vulnerable, and even without the UK the EU packs enough punch to deal with most threats. It needs to be considerably stronger yet, but its not some harmless collection of countries. The combined EU military spending is easily the 3rd highest in the world.
 

Boycott

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Just like Bernie 2020, Trump 2020 is too PC SJW to win* :(


*a take by some idiots blaming bernie's loss on him changing his stump speech by 5% to include systemic racism
If Biden ran in 2016 and got the nomination it would have been a bloodbath for Trump in a GE. If he's losing this badly now despite campaigning on Biden 2020 being mentally shot then Trump vs Biden 2016 when Biden was four years younger and more popular would have won 40 states.
 

Charlie Foley

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If Biden ran in 2016 and got the nomination it would have been a bloodbath for Trump in a GE. If he's losing this badly now despite campaigning on Biden 2020 being mentally shot then Trump vs Biden 2016 when Biden was four years younger and more popular would have won 40 states.
HRC was an awful candidate. And Trump barely beat her.
 

berbatrick

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If Biden ran in 2016 and got the nomination it would have been a bloodbath for Trump in a GE. If he's losing this badly now despite campaigning on Biden 2020 being mentally shot then Trump vs Biden 2016 when Biden was four years younger and more popular would have won 40 states.
Before May, Biden's lead wasn't that great, and was about 1 point better than Bernie and 2 points better than the field. The big shift happened in the later part of May, when covid spread out from NYC and George Floyd.

I agree that he would do better in 2016, that loss is uniquely Hillary. Probably most candidates (Bernie, Warren, Biden) would win 2016. Trump was -20 favourability, unprecedented in history!
 
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