Yes but we still had a job to do, a very difficult job and we still did it.
MNF with Pochettino
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
But let’s go with Ole
Qualifications: Club legend, got a team relegated, won the Elk farmers’ league.
I can't be arsed to reply to all the points I got back on this, but in a nutshell:
I don't have an agenda against Poch, I would probably have him as our next manager if there is an opportunity and Ole doesn't turn it around. @keithsingleton My generic point is I don't think he will be any better with more money - his big money signings have no record to suggest he would. Can we pick up the cheap buys like Spurs did? I very much doubt it. So we're left with can he improve the team we already have and I genuinely don't know the answer to that.
I don't have an agenda against Poch, I would probably have him as our next manager if there is an opportunity and Ole doesn't turn it around. @keithsingleton My generic point is I don't think he will be any better with more money - his big money signings have no record to suggest he would. Can we pick up the cheap buys like Spurs did? I very much doubt it. So we're left with can he improve the team we already have and I genuinely don't know the answer to that.
I'm not really sure he does either, we bemoan that we depend on individual brilliance to win our games, but I'm pretty sure that's what Kane, Son and Alli (for one season) did for Poch.
Do the people who want Poch also want a director of football?
That was one of the reasons he fell out with spurs, he felt he had no control over the players he had in the squad, and there was the squabble over whether he was the manager or head coach.
So you bring him in, there is no DOF and you appoint one next year or the year after? You undermine him and piss him off and within two years you back looking for another manager.
That was one of the reasons he fell out with spurs, he felt he had no control over the players he had in the squad, and there was the squabble over whether he was the manager or head coach.
So you bring him in, there is no DOF and you appoint one next year or the year after? You undermine him and piss him off and within two years you back looking for another manager.
Yes, an article written in 2017 when he is Liverpool manager. Its like Wenger when he comes out and says "I could have signed x,y,z". Whenever United are after someone, it is written about there and then.
Show me an article in 2013/14 showing we approached Klopp.
This is something different you are talking about now. I agree with you in terms of changing manager will make 0 difference under the current board. Like you say its the same rinse, repeat.
However; what I have realised is everyone is so money driven, they would not say no to this job, whoever is in charge because it holds so much value.
Let me give you an example. All these ex players who have criticised the board, if they got offered the job, they would no say no because the job of Manutd manager is special.
Agreed, if a very good manager had the chance of Bayern/ City / Liverpool who have a project they will chose them over United because of the lack of project but if a manager is out of a job and Manutd approach them, its a yes.
That is the reason we got Jose and LVG, managers out of a job.
If not, he is running a damn fine campaign. Backed by science.amadaues could well be Poch!
Not his problem that he decided in spend it on Lindelof or Pogba or Lukaku. Yes, he was not backed in one summer but you can't blame him for not giving a CB because he already had that the previous year. You should be willing to work with what you have. Not everyone gets what they want.
Just come of that delusional side that every manager needs a strong backing.
If we were to judge Poch on trophy accumulation, or lack of in this case, we'd be doing a severe disservice to what he accomplished with Spurs. Breaking into and cementing your club as a permanent fixture in the top-four elite is equally as impressive as a winning a league title. Poch not only achieved that with Spurs but he did so on a limited budget.
As a club, Spurs were not associated with winning trophies year in year out. It was only during and after Poch's tenure did that ever become a thing, which only adds weight to his achievements.
The only mistake he made at Spurs was denying Madrid when they came in for him a couple of years back, choosing to remain at Spurs to win that elusive trophy. He got to the CL final that year, only to be let down by his team at the last hurdle.
He deserves his chance at a big club who's prepared to invest in him and his team.
We didn't come 4th though, if leicester hadn't bottled it, even then we would be in the champions league.
Do I think Poch could be a success at this club in different circumstances? Yes!
Do I think he will be a success working under Woodward like the previous 4 managers have? Absolutely unequivocally not!
Do I think he will be a success working under Woodward like the previous 4 managers have? Absolutely unequivocally not!
Given the lack of movement ever on hiring a DoF, it's likely a moot point.
Well the press doesn't know everything, they only know when someone inside tell them. And I wouldn't call Klopp a liar. Even if he was surely Ed could not have kept his mouth shut.
1st bold part: not those managers mate. Money surely is important to them, but football is all what matters to such ones. And titles, glory, fame. They're already very rich by then.
2nd bold part: if a big manager is out of job for a while and not wanted by any of those big clubs. I'd suggest we should stay away from those.
Isn't this slight revisionism though? They've not finished lower than 6th in 10 years.
The biggest mistake for me is him bottling the Leicester season, he had a far better squad than Leicester had and didn't quite do it. The CL final was impressive, but other than that, it's a bit overblown what he's done at Spurs.
Have to agree here.
What in the world would make a United fan root for this??
I despise Woodward as much as the next guy but cheering on a rival to somehow spite him, it won't, sounds ridiculous
No we would have been 5th if Leicester had have beat us
Well we're clearly not in the running so who do you prefer? It's Spurs or Leicester for me. Or do you want the scousers or city winning another?
Imagine having a pop at our manager over something that didn't even happen? Jesus wept. Leicester did have the chance and blew it. We beat them home and away.
He was sacked after 5 very good years. I honestly don't know from when did you bring "not good enough for Spurs" thing that you consistently keep mentioning. Even complaints about Woodward don't make sense considering Poch used to work under even more tighter budgets and worse targets in the market.
We aren't getting a DoF, period.
Everton, Leicester couldn't care less really. Just can't see picture getting to a point where actively hoping for a league rival to win anything just to make the club look bad makes any sense.
Especially not on behalf of a manager who actively undermined the club.
Sounds like the Bundesliga club fans in the transfer forum over the summer who don't seem to mind rooting against their own club interests.
I don't understand this argument. Does Woodward pick the squad? dictate our tactics? train our side? Motivate the players? Make substitutions? Of course he doesn't. What he does do is supply the manager (every manager) a shit load of money.
If these managers haven't been able to make it work then maybe they weren't good enough or the right fit for us in the first place.
Not so subtle hints at his obvious interest in managing United. I think he can work wonders for someone like Greenwood. Mason has shown more glimpses of potential than Harry Kane did at the same age.
The fact that there is only a handful of clubs that will pay big money to managers. Barca, Bayern, City, Real, Juve are the big players really.
After that, the English clubs come in and managers know United, Chelsea and City will spend money so they can get certain players.
Poch and Allegri have been out of a job for a while now and they are the fan favourites?
Didn't Poch go for over a year without strengthening the squad. He was always destined to hit the wall at some point and the CL final loss was the straw that broke the camels back.
He made them a consistent CL side and gave them stability which we haven't achieved yet since Fergie. I too have doubts about him but we need to be realistic about where we are.
I honestly can't believe our fanbase at times. They will throw every manager under the bus, even a former club legend, but not Ed Woodward for some bizarre reason. Fans like you deserve the Glazers and Ed Woodward.
I think he's a good coach and could do well at the club but under much different circumstances. Poch working under Judge n Woodward will go the exact same way it always does. Until we get rid of the real issue at the club I honestly don't think it matters all that much who the coach is.
What makes me confident!
Well, we certainly don't have a Levy ( tight Cnut ) in the boardroom so every chance he will get a budget of sorts like most managers who come to Old Trafford do.
Our summer transfer targets went tits up as you know. Can't tell you the reason why Ole didn't get the backing as I'd only be guessing.
Maybe they didn't have confidence in him? It's all ifs & buts and only the boardroom know, us fans are generally the last to know.
I do know this much, if I had a chance to give £200 million to a manager and had to choose Ole or Poch then the latter wins every time after seeing what he did at Spurs on a shoestring budget.
There's no getting rid of the real issue. Glazers are the owners and they aren't going anywhere. The Glazers would have sacked Ed long ago if they didn't think he was doing a good job for them. What then do you propose we do when we are stuck with the real issues at the club? Are we fecked for as long as the Glazers are alive?
For me it's about perspective. We simply aren't in a position to challenge, struggling for top 4 if I'm honest on current form.
Poch isn't someone who comes with the pedigree SAF came with Aberdeen but his players played for him and he did well.
The DoF point is moot but iirc he had a good relationship with a guy at Southampton (forget his name, simon??). The guy left and Poch was gutted from interviews at the time.
I think Ole has done the job he was bought in to do. We have a squad with ability and the "deadwood" is gone. If Poch can implement his ideas into a current squad and make a signing or two I think we improve immediately.
Once we are competitive then I don't see why if Poch doesn't take us to challenger level and win some trophies, we can't review and look for another manager who could give us that extra boost.
I suspect most people want the Fergie and Wenger type management years but that rarely happens.
Also imho the whole hasn't won trophies is not necessarily a good perspective to view any potential managers. The Southampton manager and Leeds manager may not win any trophies any time soon but they are very good managers
Poch isn't someone who comes with the pedigree SAF came with Aberdeen but his players played for him and he did well.
The DoF point is moot but iirc he had a good relationship with a guy at Southampton (forget his name, simon??). The guy left and Poch was gutted from interviews at the time.
I think Ole has done the job he was bought in to do. We have a squad with ability and the "deadwood" is gone. If Poch can implement his ideas into a current squad and make a signing or two I think we improve immediately.
Once we are competitive then I don't see why if Poch doesn't take us to challenger level and win some trophies, we can't review and look for another manager who could give us that extra boost.
I suspect most people want the Fergie and Wenger type management years but that rarely happens.
Also imho the whole hasn't won trophies is not necessarily a good perspective to view any potential managers. The Southampton manager and Leeds manager may not win any trophies any time soon but they are very good managers
As long as they run the club and leave Ed in charge of the day to day then sadly I think we are basically, yeah. Might win the league cup or FA cup every now and then.
Are we going to win the PL or CL any time soon under them? No chance.
You can call whatever you want, but for me, Spurs only became a genuine top-four club after Poch took charge.
Breaking into a well-established top-five consisting of the rich and powerful United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool was, at the time, considered to be a near-impossible task without oil money backing you, but Poch proved otherwise.
No other manager of a club has come close to breaking that barrier in the PL era, some may have finished in the top-four, but none managed to cement themselves as permanent members of it besides Spurs. That must count for something.
Also, Spurs often failed at the last hurdle under Poch. The question is, do you attribute the majority of the fault on Poch' tactics or the players bottling it on the day?
"tight with the money" ?!
Ole has spent close to 250m in 2 years now or so, including a ridiculous 80m defender because he wanted him.
This is where I'm struggling. I can't really tell. You can level the same arguments with Ole if you want to shift it to the players, so how is Poch going to change that with the players we don't really believe in right now.
Top 4 looks pretty more nailed on for Poch if you look at his record st Spurs who many class as a nearly club.
Ole going to have to take another course in coaching if he wants to be here that long or learn by his mistakes pretty quickly.
Before this season began, we were in a great position to at least challenge (partially) the title if perhaps not winning it. We were one of the best teams in the league in the second half of last season points-wise, second only to a Liverpool side who were having the best season in the clubs history.
We're 15th now, and what is infinitely worse, we're playing like a team who should be 15th. It's worrying to say the least.
Someone said Ole is in his final year of his contract. Unless he turns things around, the club will do a Moyes and wait until we cannot mathematically qualify for the CL.
Then they will start looking for a new manager.
I would love for Ole to turn things around because he is a club legend. But from what I have seen i dont know if he can.
Not sure Poch is the solution either.
Then they will start looking for a new manager.
I would love for Ole to turn things around because he is a club legend. But from what I have seen i dont know if he can.
Not sure Poch is the solution either.