Carrick is one of Man United, England's most underrated players ever

[Hammondo]

He is literally the player so many teams are looking for. He was amazing for us when often put in positions/formations that do not suit him.

Looking at how some people praise players like Pogba, and looking at how so many are saying Carrick wasn't that good just makes a joke of things imo.

 

[Ole's screen]

It’s really ironic to me that we went years winning titles crying out for a partner to Carrick, and now we have everything but. Can you imagine a prime Carrick with Pogba and Bruno?

 

[Borys]

In 2012-13, according to the Premier League's official stats for Carrick (link), he played 12 through balls and 208 accurate long balls. By comparison last season, which many feel was Fred's best so far, according to the Premier League's official stats for him (link), Fred played 3 through balls and 110 accurate long balls. Also last season Scott McTominay, according to the Premier League's official stats for him (link), played 2 through balls and 62 accurate long balls. Its just not credible to say that Carrick went sideways as much as as McFred. If McFred passed the ball forward as fast and as often as Carrick it would elevate our attack several levels.

I agree on the bolded part 100%, but it seems unfair to me to compare Carrick best season to Fred/McTominay last season. Clearly their biggest issue is passing, which was Carrick's biggest strength. We are yet to see what Fred and McTominay can do at their peak.

If we could set him up in midfield with Fred and Bruno/van de Beek we would probably be more comfortable on the ball, but I doubt we would be a significantly better team - our problems lie in the front and lack of consistent/performing strikers. And in big games we've played and lost points (Tottenham/Chelsea/Arsenal) he wouldn't have helped as there was too much pressure in midfield for him anyway. But maybe Rashford would've scored 5 against RB Lipsk with him in the team.

 

[R0nald0]

Massively over-rated by a lot of our fans. He got the amount of England caps he deserved. He was a good player and did well for us, especially once Scholes retired but he played the ball far too safely and side-ways too often. He was good when we played well but could never turn an average performance into a good one, which Ince, Keane, Scholes all could do.

His goals and assists to games ratio is poor in relation to players like Alonso/Pirlo etc which demonstrates that he played it far too safe and wasn't affective enough in the attacking sense for a player of his ilk.

 

[Foxbatt]

Yes he was so terrible at one stage that anyone else was better in midfield. He and Fletcher had 90 odd passes between them in one match. His usefulness was that he could also play as a defender. He was slow ands weak too. He has had his brilliant days no doubt but I would not rank him among the top midfield players we had. He was just decent. Good header of the ball though.

 

[lex talionis]

A United legend for me. Carrick never stole the show with match winning goals or brilliant tackles, but that was never his game. His game was linking the defense with the attack, both in patient build up and counterattack.

The England NT was mismanaged during his playing years. Their managers also boxed out Scholes in order to accommodate both Kampard and Gerrard, and I don’t think anyone here would argue that Scholes is overrated. Carrick was no Scholes in terms of impact, but he was an immense midfielder who’s respected by intelligent observers of the game.

 

[berbatrick]

There are full matches from 2006-08 on YouTube, anyone can check out how he played. About 10% off scholes' passing in terms of range and forward passes, while playing the DM role on his own. Far far beyond any other midfielder we've had since (2017-19 Pogba and current Bruno are close but neither had defensive responsibility, Bruno is a full-fledged forward).

The only comparison is alonso, who had a slightly better passing range, was equally bad against an opposition press (especially in the big CL games), and was about the same defensively. Busquets at his owpeak better but he's fallen away with age and the barca midfield deteriorating -he wouldn't have managed what Carrick did after 2007 here.

 

[MattofManchester]

Maybe in his later years. In his earlier years, I seem to remember many people not really warming to him.

 

[adexkola]

Fletcher was better than Carrick and the more important player for us until the bowel disease ruined his career. Paul Ince was also a better player but he didn't play for us long enough in the Premier league.

Fletcher was not better for us than Carrick (as good as he turned out to be).

I'll give you Ince.

 

[Green_Red]

I personally have Beckham among my top 5 United greatest ever players ( I acknowledge that there is likely someone nostalgia at play). He was a level or so above Alexander-Arnold. Anyone who says otherwise is seriously underrating him. But if you asked 100 people who have never watched football, who's the best player ever: Beckham would likely win.

I wasn't clear enough, sorry.



But there's definitely 10 better than him.

Yea but 10 midfielders in world football being better than you is hardly a negative in terms of your ability. I don't think Fabregas, Senna, Khadiera or Mascherano are better. As good but not much better. Some of the other names, definitely agree. Surprised no Scholes in that list too.

 

[Remember the geese]

I wish we had him in his prime right now next to Fred.

 

[Lynty]

IMO this list is mix of multiple time frames, for example Carrick was better than Seedorf, Gattuso, Senna, Essien around 2008/09 time as most of them were close to retirement (or Injury prone) and also better than players like Vidal, Modric, who were far from their peak level.

Essien and Ballack played a vital park in Chelsea champions league run, going toe to toe with Barca in the semis and Essien scoring a 20 yard volley.

Senna captained his team to the quarters, scoring a goal in round 16, despite being in the last year's of his career.

I forgot about Juniho who had a fantastic tournament with Lyon.

I'm not saying Carrick was a poor midfielder. But it's revisionism to paint him as equal to some of the other midfiedlers at the time.

SAF got to those Champions League finals 'despite' midfield inferiority.

 

[GifLord]

Do I remember correctly or did he become scared of the ball after we lost to Barca in 09 ? Was kinda a hit or miss for the next 2 years until he got some consistency going

 

[Lynty]

Yea but 10 midfielders in world football being better than you is hardly a negative in terms of your ability. I don't think Fabregas, Senna, Khadiera or Mascherano are better. As good but not much better. Some of the other names, definitely agree. Surprised no Scholes in that list too.

Ye the list was just of the top of my head. There's plenty missing.

Carrick was a great player - i'm not trying to put him down. But every few months we have a thread about how good he was etc. when in reality - he could be incredibly frustrating at the times and we wasn't exactly a midfield powerhouse of a team. In and around 10th best CM is a fair reflection of his ability (imo) he can hold his head high.

 

[roonster09]

Essien and Ballack played a vital park in Chelsea champions league run, going toe to toe with Barca in the semis and Essien scoring a 20 yard volley.

Senna captained his team to the quarters, scoring a goal in round 16, despite being in the last year's of his career.

I forgot about Juniho who had a fantastic tournament with Lyon.

I'm not saying Carrick was a poor midfielder. But it's revisionism to paint him as equal to some of the other midfiedlers at the time.

SAF got to those Champions League finals 'despite' midfield inferiority.

Add + 2 years and repeat the same post. It would be around 2010 then. Point is you are sort of mixed around 15 years time frame. By 2010, Carrick was easily better than Seedorf, Senna, Ballack and other players. By 2007 Carrick was better than Busquets, Vidal, Modric, Bastian, Khedira (well he was better than Khedira for almost all his career except very few seasons),

Around 2012, he was better than Zanetti (Carrick was always better CM than Zanetti), Cambiasso and few others.

Essien from 2008-10 was barely fit. He missed so many games. He averaged 20 games per season from 2008-10.

 

[noodlehair]

He wasn't underated for us. He had a couple of very good seasons and was generally a very good player, but not in the same class as Scholes, Keane etc...although better than any midfielder we've had since. That was generally recognised though. He also had a couple of poor seasons where he seemed to lose his confidence and would play well within himself.

Definitely under appreciated for England considering that the likes of Gareth Barry were routinely selected ahead of him, but then it wouldn't be an England team if it was one where all the best players are picked and played in their positions. England didn't think Paul Scholes was good enough to play in central midfield and spent years trying to build an attack around the idea that Andy Carroll/Peter Crouch are taller than people who can actually play football.

 

[RUCK4444]

Excellent player. Always made up for pace with excellent positioning defensively as well as being class passing forwards, top class.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

It’s really ironic to me that we went years winning titles crying out for a partner to Carrick, and now we have everything but. Can you imagine a prime Carrick with Pogba and Bruno?

Did that happen?

All I remember is people calling to replace Carrick (before people finally realize how good and important he is in LVG's 2nd season was it?), or basically get more and better midfielders, not make-shift defenders/wingers/forwards forced slot into midfield.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Other than United's english fans and football fans (non-english fans, players and managers) in general, I rarely heard people praise or rate Carrick as high as he is. It's a bit underrated, considering how Carrick play huge roles in our titles and many post-saf winning and good form runs, even if it's more supporting roles. Then you had the likes of Xabi Alonso or Pep praising Carrick with sky high praises.

A player like Carrick tend to not be appreciate more easily except those who have certain views about football, especially the controller type of ex-players/players. Defenders who once played with him will also notice/realize the value of Carrick eg. Rio and GNev.

Point is, I think United fans now finally rate and appreciate Carrick as he should be. But not England fans in general, I think, it's mostly due to underperformance with England NT. It's also "difficult" to notice what he brings to the table seeing the daily PL games unless you have the "football specific eyes" to notice it.

It's not easy to see what Carrick bring to the table, and more often than not people talked about his passings and deep-playmaking only. That's all. No, that's wrong, it doesn't stop there, there are plenty more he brings into the table. It's also why Carrick made Pogba performed better or why our winning and defense stats tend to score higher with him than without.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Other than United's english fans and football fans (non-english fans, players and managers) in general, I rarely heard people praise or rate Carrick as high as he is. It's a bit underrated, considering how Carrick play huge roles in our titles and many post-saf winning and good form runs, even if it's more supporting roles. Then you had the likes of Xabi Alonso or Pep praising Carrick with sky high praises.

A player like Carrick tend to not be appreciate more easily except those who have certain views about football, especially the controller type of ex-players/players. Defenders who once played with him will also notice/realize the value of Carrick eg. Rio and GNev.

Point is, I think United fans now finally rate and appreciate Carrick as he should be. But not England fans in general, I think, it's mostly due to underperformance with England NT. It's also "difficult" to notice what he brings to the table seeing the daily PL games unless you have the "football specific eyes" to notice it.

It's not easy to see what Carrick bring to the table, and more often than not people talked about his passings and deep-playmaking only. That's all. No, that's wrong, it doesn't stop there, there are plenty more he brings into the table. It's also why Carrick made Pogba performed better or why our winning and defense stats tend to score higher with him than without.

Just look at the stats with or without Carrick with LVG. We had like 60-70% wins with Carrick and like 30-40% without him during the first season.
It was a boring style, but Carricks eye for a good pass and keeping possession was what made it at least allow us to grind out wins.

 

[Amerifan]

Carrick overcame physical limitations by learning anticipation and reading the game. A physically gifted player like Pogba never needed to develop those skills to be successful. Must be interesting for Carrick to coach a natural talent like Pogba because their styles are so different.

 

[Champ]

Still my favourite United player of that generation, simply stunning on the ball, could mark the space and read the game so well he was very rarely caught out of position.

An absolute travesty that some football followers can't see how good he was.

Easily on the same level as Xavi and iniesta for me, albeit slightly different in terms of style.

 

[gajender]

Carrick overcame physical limitations by learning anticipation and reading the game. A physically gifted player like Pogba never needed to develop those skills to be successful. Must be interesting for Carrick to coach a natural talent like Pogba because their styles are so different.

Carrick wasn't a physical player but he didn't have any physical limitations, he just didn't rely much on his physicality.

 

[TRossManUtd8]

Personally, I feel that Carrick is Man Utd and Englands most underrated player of my lifetime. He is a player that I miss a lot and did not notice how much I loved his game until he retired.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

He had one world class season post Scholes, in Fergie´s last season iirc. Before he was very good for us and a consistent starter. Just not the level the thread title thinks. Surely underrated by some but hardly at the level of some of the true star CMs but you can have a great career being just a step or two down from world class at an elite level football for sure.

Think some players will get overrated and some underrated over time, depends how successfull we are. Now we´re not having our best years, so it´s really natural to praise some of our former players, whereas it´s easy to forget when we finally start winning trophies with some other players I reckon.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

He should have shot more.

 

[Idxomer]

Easily on the same level as Xavi and iniesta for me, albeit slightly different in terms of style.

That's overrating him, he is on a similar level to Busquets though.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I think he was such a smart player. His passing was at a very high level as well.
It was after we got him that we went on to dominate English football again after a few worse years.
Rooney and Ronaldo get most of the credit, but Carrick was the key in midfield together with Scholes, Fletcher and Anderson when he was good.

 

[Bebestation]

Carrick was great. I personally think the underrated player was Hargreaves during that 07-08 season. The guy was always injured but consistently came in during important games and provided the balance players like Carrick and Scholes needed.

 

[poleglass red]

He should have shot more.

I've always said that. He had a sweet shot as well. You look at his goal tally, Fletcher scored 1 more goal than him yet played 93 games less

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Carrick was great. I personally think the underrated player was Hargreaves during that 07-08 season. The guy was always injured but consistently came in during important games and provided the balance players like Carrick and Scholes needed.

We had so many great options then.

 

[Green_Red]

Ye the list was just of the top of my head. There's plenty missing.

Carrick was a great player - i'm not trying to put him down. But every few months we have a thread about how good he was etc. when in reality - he could be incredibly frustrating at the times and we wasn't exactly a midfield powerhouse of a team. In and around 10th best CM is a fair reflection of his ability (imo) he can hold his head high.

yea I agree with that

 

[ForeverRed1]

He is underrated. Not saying he was the greatest of all time but he always did the job, whatever was asked. Always put in a shift and was consistent for us. Awesome passing and vision, exceptional reading of the game.

he’s kind of like the milners and Henderson’s of the world. Probably not the best player but probably always the first on a managers team sheet. The clog.

 

[Footy van de Geek]

Carrick went through seasons where he was brilliant, but also had some downturns in form as well. He alluded to being mentally broken after what the Barcelona did to him and our midfield. As he said, you‘ve won 3 titles in a row and The CL. You think you’re a very good player. Then you go through that humbling. He carried that with him for a long time.

I thought he was brilliant during 06/07, 07/08 and 08/09, then he tailed off from mid 2009 to late 2011. He was arguably our best player across the 11/12 and 12/13 seasons. LvG badly missed him due to injury during his 1st season. He was good again during 15/16 after a year of Moyes and a season of injuries under LvG. Finished out his final years under Mourinho as a better version of what Matić is currently offers the team.

Quite underrated overall imo. The British midfielders that came before him were either all action or prolific goalscorers. The subtle elements of his play and actual simplicity of it all went undervalued. He was quite a unique player, given his nationality. Wilkins and Hoddle are other unique British players. More of continental feel to them.

 

[Grande]

I had a colleague who seriously insisted that Anderson was the least talented player to ever play in England. To me that means Anderson has been more underrated.

 

[Lynty]

Add + 2 years and repeat the same post. It would be around 2010 then. Point is you are sort of mixed around 15 years time frame. By 2010, Carrick was easily better than Seedorf, Senna, Ballack and other players. By 2007 Carrick was better than Busquets, Vidal, Modric, Bastian, Khedira (well he was better than Khedira for almost all his career except very few seasons),

Around 2012, he was better than Zanetti (Carrick was always better CM than Zanetti), Cambiasso and few others.

Essien from 2008-10 was barely fit. He missed so many games. He averaged 20 games per season from 2008-10.

2008/2009 and 2012/2013 are what most consider his best years. I agree you have a difference in comparable midfielders between the two - but if we remove Essien, Senna etc. We replace them with Modric, Yaya etc. who were clearly better than Carrick at the early part of the decade.

No matter which year you pick - there's a solid argument to be made that Carrick barely broke top 10 midfielders (nothing wrong with that - great achievement).

Everyone who would say otherwise is a Manchester United fan.

A great player, but let's not change history and put him among the greatest midfielders of the last couple of decades - some of whom would have certainly won Ballon Dors if not for the freaks Messi/Ronaldo.

 

[Lynty]

I know I'm coming across anti-Carrick and I'm really not.

But we really do sound like scousers when we start throwing around "easily as good as Xavi and Iniesta" - you'd get laughed out the pub.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I know I'm coming across anti-Carrick and I'm really not.

But we really do sound like scousers when we start throwing around "easily as good as Xavi and Iniesta" - you'd get laughed out the pub.

Xavi and Iniesta has got a bit overrated too. Amazing players, but Messi was the GOAT for that Barca side and Peps tactics.
Spain had many other great players too yet they played terrible football at the world cup and won that by tiny margins in all games.
History can remember things differently if margins go other ways.
I know in 2008 they played great stuff though, but still had to win on pens against Italy.

 

[Butty19]

I agree he is very underrated. I don’t think he was really used properly until LVG took charge. Think we tried to use him more as a box to box type rather than a deep lying playmaker in a midfield three, certainly in his first few seasons. He always seemed reluctant to go forward despite being good enough to do so. Maybe he was ahead of his time in that respect, certainly in this country where at the time defensive minded midfielders were more ‘hard men’ than elegant footballers.

 

[Footy van de Geek]

Xavi and Iniesta has got a bit overrated too. Amazing players, but Messi was the GOAT for that Barca side and Peps tactics.
Spain had many other great players too yet they played terrible football at the world cup and won that by tiny margins in all games.
History can remember things differently if margins go other ways.
I know in 2008 they played great stuff though, but still had to win on pens against Italy.

David Villa was the Messi for their World Cup winning side. He provided the finishing touch to their moves.

Spain probably went a bit overboard with false strikers and what have you after 2010. But they were also excellent playing their Tiki-taka brand of football at Euro 2012 as well.

I loved that Spain side, as that’s the way I like to play football. I don’t like pressing relentlessly or having to sprint back into position during a turnover of possession. I want to make the opposition work hard and enjoy wearing them down. Whether it’s 5 vs 5 or a full sized pitch.

It’s probably why I liked LvG more than most United fans did. I liked the foundations he laid. It just lacked a few ingredients to make it all come together.

Xavi‘s 2007 to 2013 was incredible. An all time great, easily. Ahead of both Pirlo and Scholes.