Carrick is one of Man United, England's most underrated players ever

[Lynty]

I always disagree with this topic.

He was a very good player and those who understand football (especially how midfield has changed over the last 30 years) recognised his importance.

But was he ever among the top10 of his period? A period that included:

Xavi
Iniesta
Fabregas
Seedorf
Pirlo
Yaya Toure
Gattuso
Modric
Ballack
De Rossi
Schweinsteiger
Gerrard
Vidal
Senna
Khedria
Alonso
Cambiasso
Zenetti
Mascherano
Essien
Busquets

I think he gets a deserved amount of recognition. I wish we had him at his peak right now. He's well loved at the club and respected by knowledgeable neutral fans.

Claiming he was better than a lot of players listed above, is pure bias.

 

[spiriticon]

He is of the Busquets mould, albeit not quite as good. Although to be fair, Barcelona being unreal at that time helped Busquets a lot too.

Like Busquets, he'll never get recognised as much as his more illustrious teammates.

 

[ROFLUTION]

I always disagree with this topic.

He was a very good player and those who understand football (especially how midfield has changed over the last 30 years) recognised his importance.

But was he ever among the top10 of his period? A period that included:

Xavi
Iniesta
Fabregas
Seedorf
Pirlo
Yaya Toure
Gattuso
Modric
Ballack
De Rossi
Schweinsteiger
Gerrard
Vidal
Senna
Khedria
Alonso
Cambiasso
Zenetti
Mascherano
Essien
Busquets

I think he gets a deserved amount of recognition. I wish we had him at his peak right now. He's well loved at the club and respected by knowledgeable neutral fans.

Claiming he was better than a lot of players listed above, is pure bias.

Bolded ones I think he was better than overall over the timespan of his career. That leaves 12 remaining players of which he's probably on par with some of them. So I think he could be in the top 10.

 

[do.ob]

What a player. Ever-present midfielder in our most successful ever period.

Watching McTominay and Fred struggle to pass through the lines reminds us how good his passing from deep us. Basically carried our midfield in 2013 single handedly too (playing in a two man midfield of Cleverley / Anderson / Scholes / Giggs).

Not that Carrick wasn't a better midfielder than either of those two, but when you make that kind of comparison you should keep in mind that teams were far worse organized in Carrick's day. In a lot of the scenes in that compilation opponents seem rather indifferent to him or even position themselves far away. That allows him to take his sweet time picking a pass. A lot of teams with more modern coaching aim to either immediately pressure someone like Carrick or minimize the space behind their backline.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I always disagree with this topic.

He was a very good player and those who understand football (especially how midfield has changed over the last 30 years) recognised his importance.

But was he ever among the top10 of his period? A period that included:

Xavi
Iniesta
Fabregas
Seedorf
Pirlo
Yaya Toure
Gattuso
Modric
Ballack
De Rossi
Schweinsteiger
Gerrard
Vidal
Senna
Khedria
Alonso
Cambiasso
Zenetti
Mascherano
Essien
Busquets

I think he gets a deserved amount of recognition. I wish we had him at his peak right now. He's well loved at the club and respected by knowledgeable neutral fans.

Claiming he was better than a lot of players listed above, is pure bias.

I agree, he’s gets the recognition he deserves. A key part of our success.

 

[Lynty]

Bolded ones I think he was better than overall over the timespan of his career. That leaves 12 remaining players of which he's probably on par with some of them. So I think he could be in the top 10.

Those are just off the top of my head. Someone with more knowledge would probably offer more names.

You probably do make a fair point. The problem is, it's debatable and I don't think it's clear cut he's a superior player to any of those. So he may have well been hovering around top10, he may never have been.

But I don't think he's underrated at all.

 

[Borys]

Good player with fantastic passing (both feet), and good positioning. He was no playmaker though, and reverted to doing "simple stuff" (for which Fred and McTominay are so criticized so often these days) under any pressure. His overall week in-week out contribution is highly overrated on here.

His passing from the deep and between lines would be useful for us right now, but he would crumble under pressure.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

We were really lucky to have Carrick, at his best there were only a few in the world better in his position. At the time he joined we'd been spoilt by having a succession of all-time greats of the English game in our midfield (Robson, Keane, and Scholes having just settled into his 'quarterback' role again) and maybe he was unfairly and unfavourably compared against them. Looking back at him objectively, I can't think of a player currently in the league (perhaps in the world) who is better in that role, and who could throw into our late-Fergie team and get the same results.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Very good player. Overrated on here as the years have progressed though, he was not the Pirlo like playmaker he’s been made out to be. In his prime people complained about him passing sideways & backwards all the time. He was regularly singled out for the “sideways static zombie football” & even had a thread on here called “where art thou Michael Carrick”

Overrated on the caf, underrated in general. It’s criminal how few England caps he got.

 

[Lynty]

Very good player. Overrated on here as the years have progressed though, he was not the playmaker he’s been made out to be. In his prime people complained about him passing sideways & backwards all the time. He was regularly singled out for the “sideways static zombie football” & even had a thread on here called “where art thou Michael Carrick”

Overrated on the caf, underrated in general. It’s criminal how few England caps he got.

Exactly how I feel.

The opposite of Beckham really - Underrated by fans, overrated in general.

 

[GueRed]

I always disagree with this topic.

He was a very good player and those who understand football (especially how midfield has changed over the last 30 years) recognised his importance.

But was he ever among the top10 of his period? A period that included:

Xavi
Iniesta
Fabregas
Seedorf
Pirlo
Yaya Toure
Gattuso
Modric
Ballack
De Rossi
Schweinsteiger
Gerrard
Vidal
Senna
Khedria
Alonso
Cambiasso
Zenetti
Mascherano
Essien
Busquets

I think he gets a deserved amount of recognition. I wish we had him at his peak right now. He's well loved at the club and respected by knowledgeable neutral fans.

Claiming he was better than a lot of players listed above, is pure bias.

Gattuso?!? was way overrated imo. technically a limited midfielder. a workhorse who did all the running and pressing for Pirlo, Kaka and co. if it was a personality or energy bunny contest he'd win for sure..Carrick was much better than him.

the list above were Carrick's fellow peers . most of them rated Carrick highly. Xabi Alsono and Pirlo waxed lyrical many times

Carrick was a top tier centre midfielder in his time. Up there with the best. World Class



Carrick's passing range was class. Defensively his positional sense was class. Was a good reader of the game and was a consistent performer

Wish we had a world class midfielder right now.

 

[MadDogg]

I always disagree with this topic.

He was a very good player and those who understand football (especially how midfield has changed over the last 30 years) recognised his importance.

But was he ever among the top10 of his period? A period that included:

Xavi
Iniesta
Fabregas
Seedorf
Pirlo
Yaya Toure
Gattuso
Modric
Ballack
De Rossi
Schweinsteiger
Gerrard
Vidal
Senna
Khedria
Alonso
Cambiasso
Zenetti
Mascherano
Essien
Busquets

I think he gets a deserved amount of recognition. I wish we had him at his peak right now. He's well loved at the club and respected by knowledgeable neutral fans.

Claiming he was better than a lot of players listed above, is pure bias.

The thing that made Carrick so good is that he combined two aspects that very few others did. Defensively strong enough to play as the main defensive midfielder, while also being a very good playmaker in his own right (he took a back seat when partnered with Scholes, but when Scholes retired Carrick stepped up as the main man). There were players who could do either of the two roles better, but almost nobody who combined it so well.

Almost all the other deep-lying playmakers that he's most commonly compared to (Alonso, Pirlo, Xavi, Scholes, etc) were all better playmakers than Carrick was, but they also had to have another defensive midfielder next to them. So Carrick was able to provide almost a unique balance - he was able to play next to one them so we could play two playmakers in a two man midfield. Almost cheating in a way. Busquets is the only other one who could argue was better at combining the two aspects, but it can be questioned how much of his job was made easier by that ridiculous team around him.

 

[adexkola]

Good player with fantastic passing (both feet), and good positioning. He was no playmaker though, and reverted to doing "simple stuff" (for which Fred and McTominay are so criticized so often these days) under any pressure. His overall week in-week out contribution is highly overrated on here.

His passing from the deep and between lines would be useful for us right now, but he would crumble under pressure.

He would crumble under pressure because let's face it, our entire team back then was shit against the press. The game has evolved a lot since Carrick's heyday.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Exactly how I feel.

I call it “Anthony Martial syndrome”

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Very good player. Overrated on here as the years have progressed though, he was not the Pirlo like playmaker he’s been made out to be. In his prime people complained about him passing sideways & backwards all the time. He was regularly singled out for the “sideways static zombie football” & even had a thread on here called “where art thou Michael Carrick”

Overrated on the caf, underrated in general. It’s criminal how few England caps he got.

This isn't true. He never turned up for England but still got 34 caps. He said playing for England gave him depression. It wasn't a good fit.

 

[Relevated]

Anyone remember the time that all he did was pass it sideways or backwards? I remember Evans getting frustrated at him once.

I think Carrick became our best midfielder, but that was only after we had no good ones left. He did the basics really well and thats got him recognition but to be honest with you, he wouldn't really make the biggest difference if you put him in todays team. A slight difference, sure, but nothing ground breaking.

 

[GueRed]

I call it “Anthony Martial syndrome”

Carrick was an actual top tier midfielder. And a consistent performer

Martial is a lazy get

 

[Castia]

Not for me he was decent and nothing more.

Me and my friends used to call him ‘the statue’ there were phases in his career, like months of form where he was just terrible.

 

[Relevated]

Match going fans seemed unanimous in his praise. A high % of morons online didn't understand his game.

This makes zero sense. You seem to shove everyone on one of two sides - high IQ match goers, or low intellect online fans.

Do you realise how pathetic that is? Just because you want to rewrite history and make out Carrick was some sort of Scholes, he definitely was nowhere near.

 

[#07]

Exactly how I feel.

The opposite of Beckham really - Underrated by fans, overrated in general.

You think Becks is overrated? I always feel like Becks is massively underrated. People treat him like he was a fashion icon first and a footballer second. Last season, professional football writers were asking if Beckham was better than Alexander-Arnold. UEFA Club Footballer of the year 1999, Ballon d'Or runner up 1999, two time FIFA World Player of the year runner up David Beckham or Alexander-Arnold was presented as a serious 'debate.' That itself shows how criminally underrated Beckham has become just cos he did a few underwear ads.

For practically the entire time Becks was a first team regular at United he was one of our most consistent players. I think its underappreciated how much him being kicked out of the Deportivo La Coruna Champions League tie affected our 2001-02 season. Beckham was so important to us and opposing teams knew it, hence why he was targeted for rough treatment in that game and many others. So much of our attack flowed through Beckham.

I'm not sure Carrick is overrated on the CAF either. The truth is, as the saying goes, you don't know what you've got until its gone. As @Borys' post reminds us there was a long history of people complaining about Carrick on the CAF. I, myself, was not entirely bought into Carrick until 2012-13. After the away game at QPR that season - when the fans started singing 'hard to believe its not Scholes' - I was completely convinced though. Ever since I've only become more so. Just watching other players we've bought struggle to do what Carrick did, defend well and progress play, highlights how spoiled we were just to expect that week in week out.

In 2012-13, according to the Premier League's official stats for Carrick (link), he played 12 through balls and 208 accurate long balls. By comparison last season, which many feel was Fred's best so far, according to the Premier League's official stats for him (link), Fred played 3 through balls and 110 accurate long balls. Also last season Scott McTominay, according to the Premier League's official stats for him (link), played 2 through balls and 62 accurate long balls. Its just not credible to say that Carrick went sideways as much as as McFred. If McFred passed the ball forward as fast and as often as Carrick it would elevate our attack several levels.

 

[Matt007a]

Excellent player. Got a lot of stick for playing sideways too much, but I thought he was actually quite good at passing through the lines. He'd fire the ball along the ground into the strikers feet and get us up the pitch quickly.

Obviously not on the same level as Scholes next to him, but he was still a very good player for us. He'd walk into our current team ahead of Pogba/Matic/McT/Fred.

He never got the chances for England because he played in a golden era of English midfielders. Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard were all world class players. If he was playing today, he'd be the first midfielder on the team sheet.

 

[Green_Red]

I always disagree with this topic.

He was a very good player and those who understand football (especially how midfield has changed over the last 30 years) recognised his importance.

But was he ever among the top10 of his period? A period that included:

Xavi
Iniesta
Fabregas
Seedorf
Pirlo
Yaya Toure
Gattuso
Modric
Ballack
De Rossi
Schweinsteiger
Gerrard
Vidal
Senna
Khedria
Alonso
Cambiasso
Zenetti
Mascherano
Essien
Busquets

I think he gets a deserved amount of recognition. I wish we had him at his peak right now. He's well loved at the club and respected by knowledgeable neutral fans.

Claiming he was better than a lot of players listed above, is pure bias.

Hes as good, if not better, theman a fair few names on that list.

 

[Solius]

The pass he made to Hernandez against Chelsea was out of this world.

 

[Relevated]

You think Becks is overrated? I always feel like Becks is massively underrated. People treat him like he was a fashion icon first and a footballer second. Last season, professional football writers were asking if Beckham was better than Alexander-Arnold. UEFA Club Footballer of the year 1999, Ballon d'Or runner up 1999, two time FIFA World Player of the year runner up David Beckham or Alexander-Arnold was presented as a serious 'debate.' That itself shows how criminally underrated Beckham has become just cos he did a few underwear ads.

For practically the entire time Becks was a first team regular at United he was one of our most consistent players. I think its underappreciated how much him being kicked out of the Deportivo La Coruna Champions League tie affected our 2001-02 season. Beckham was so important to us and opposing teams knew it, hence why he was targeted for rough treatment in that game and many others. So much of our attack flowed through Beckham.

I'm not sure Carrick is overrated on the CAF either. The truth is, as the saying goes, you don't know what you've got until its gone. As @Borys' post reminds us there was a long history of people complaining about Carrick on the CAF. I, myself, was not entirely bought into Carrick until 2012-13. After the away game at QPR that season - when the fans started singing 'hard to believe its not Scholes' - I was completely convinced though. Ever since I've only become more so. Just watching other players we've bought struggle to do what Carrick did, defend well and progress play, highlights how spoiled we were just to expect that week in week out.

In 2012-13, according to the Premier League's official stats for Carrick (link), he played 12 through balls and 208 accurate long balls. By comparison last season, which many feel was Fred's best so far, according to the Premier League's official stats for him (link), Fred played 3 through balls and 110 accurate long balls. Also last season Scott McTominay, according to the Premier League's official stats for him (link), played 2 through balls and 62 accurate long balls. Its just not credible to say that Carrick went sideways as much as as McFred. If McFred passed the ball forward as fast and as often as Carrick it would elevate our attack several levels.

Why do you think beckham was so underrated anyway? Its so weird. Do you think its because he was probably one of the first celebrity footballers of this generation? Or because he was a pretty boy? I'm confused about this

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Carrick was an actual top tier midfielder. And a consistent performer

Martial is a lazy get

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Why do you think beckham was so underrated anyway? Its so weird. Do you think its because he was probably one of the first celebrity footballers of this generation? Or because he was a pretty boy? I'm confused about this

He really isn't underrated. His worth has been recognised across several clubs; a consummate professional, team player and very skilful

 

[Murray3007]

was one of the most complete players we have seen at United, would only have Scholes and Keane as better CM players in the premiership era at united, could have played in any team in the world in his prime, could easily have played in the Barca team for Busquets or the Madrid team for Alonso.

 

[Lynty]

You think Becks is overrated? I always feel like Becks is massively underrated. People treat him like he was a fashion icon first and a footballer second. Last season, professional football writers were asking if Beckham was better than Alexander-Arnold. UEFA Club Footballer of the year 1999, Ballon d'Or runner up 1999, two time FIFA World Player of the year runner up David Beckham or Alexander-Arnold was presented as a serious 'debate.' That itself shows how criminally underrated Beckham has become just cos he did a few underwear ads.

For practically the entire time Becks was a first team regular at United he was one of our most consistent players. I think its underappreciated how much him being kicked out of the Deportivo La Coruna Champions League tie affected our 2001-02 season. Beckham was so important to us and opposing teams knew it, hence why he was targeted for rough treatment in that game and many others. So much of our attack flowed through Beckham.

I'm not sure Carrick is overrated on the CAF either. The truth is, as the saying goes, you don't know what you've got until its gone. As @Borys' post reminds us there was a long history of people complaining about Carrick on the CAF. I, myself, was not entirely bought into Carrick until 2012-13. After the away game at QPR that season - when the fans started singing 'hard to believe its not Scholes' - I was completely convinced though. Ever since I've only become more so. Just watching other players we've bought struggle to do what Carrick did, defend well and progress play, highlights how spoiled we were just to expect that week in week out.

In 2012-13, according to the Premier League's official stats for Carrick (link), he played 12 through balls and 208 accurate long balls. By comparison last season, which many feel was Fred's best so far, according to the Premier League's official stats for him (link), Fred played 3 through balls and 110 accurate long balls. Also last season Scott McTominay, according to the Premier League's official stats for him (link), played 2 through balls and 62 accurate long balls. Its just not credible to say that Carrick went sideways as much as as McFred. If McFred passed the ball forward as fast and as often as Carrick it would elevate our attack several levels.

I personally have Beckham among my top 5 United greatest ever players ( I acknowledge that there is likely someone nostalgia at play). He was a level or so above Alexander-Arnold. Anyone who says otherwise is seriously underrating him. But if you asked 100 people who have never watched football, who's the best player ever: Beckham would likely win.

I wasn't clear enough, sorry.

Hes as good, if not better, theman a fair few names on that list.

But there's definitely 10 better than him.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Not just his passing ability and his intelligent on his both playmaking & defensive ability but Carrick's mentality to be consistent is one many of his asset and his work rate is also pretty good. In his prime, he's still willing to run back and work his socks off to protect the back four and 35 years old Carrick was still willing to chase Aguero to the death until the striker lost the ball, something you can only dream of from the current Matic & Pogba who act like they are Pirlo and think they can get away by being ball watching defensively.

Finding Keane type of player is very difficult nowdays, the complete midfielder. However, I also would say the same finding someone like Carrick type of player is also not easy nowdays.

 

[GMoore23]

was one of the most complete players we have seen at United, would only have Scholes and Keane as better CM players in the premiership era at united, could have played in any team in the world in his prime, could easily have played in the Barca team for Busquets or the Madrid team for Alonso.

Fletcher was better than Carrick and the more important player for us until the bowel disease ruined his career. Paul Ince was also a better player but he didn't play for us long enough in the Premier league.

 

[Idxomer]

Agreed.

This page alone and the list at the top is proof he's still underrated by many.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

This makes zero sense. You seem to shove everyone on one of two sides - high IQ match goers, or low intellect online fans.

Do you realise how pathetic that is? Just because you want to rewrite history and make out Carrick was some sort of Scholes, he definitely was nowhere near.

You've not really read what I posted.

I said a high % of online fans didn't rate him. That was/is the case.

It is true that match going fans generally had a high opinion of Carrick - i would guess because the subtlety in his game and positional play can be seen clearly.

You chose to bring people's intelligence into this. And you also have randomly brought up Paul Scholes, which is irrelevant to my post.

 

[Hansinity]

It is really interesting. When you ask anyone outside of United´s fanbase, I am conviced that nobody would put him in his top 10/15 CM during his period.

I personally think some her overrate him, and non United fans underrate him.

would be in my top 15 CM during his era.

 

[roonster09]

I always disagree with this topic.

He was a very good player and those who understand football (especially how midfield has changed over the last 30 years) recognised his importance.

But was he ever among the top10 of his period? A period that included:

Xavi
Iniesta
Fabregas
Seedorf
Pirlo
Yaya Toure
Gattuso
Modric
Ballack
De Rossi
Schweinsteiger
Gerrard
Vidal
Senna
Khedria
Alonso
Cambiasso
Zenetti
Mascherano
Essien
Busquets

I think he gets a deserved amount of recognition. I wish we had him at his peak right now. He's well loved at the club and respected by knowledgeable neutral fans.

Claiming he was better than a lot of players listed above, is pure bias.

IMO this list is mix of multiple time frames, for example Carrick was better than Seedorf, Gattuso, Senna, Essien around 2008/09 time as most of them were close to retirement (or Injury prone) and also better than players like Vidal, Modric, who were far from their peak level.

 

[Murray3007]

Fletcher was better than Carrick and the more important player for us until the bowel disease ruined his career. Paul Ince was also a better player but he didn't play for us long enough in the Premier league.

not a chance in hell Fletcher was a better footballer then Carrick, like I said he in the premiership era was better then Ince as well, Carricks first 6 seasons at united seen us win 4 titles, lost the other 2 by 1 point and on goal difference or something crazy along those lines, he was outstanding for united.

 

[Lebo]

Good article. You forget how garbage we were between 03-06.

Even before that. None of Giggs, Anderson, Cleverley, Gibson, and even Fletcher and an ageing Scholes were adequate midfield partners. Meanwhile, Alonso has had the likes of Gerrard, Mascharano, Khedira and Modric sitting alongside him.

United fans should know more than most that comparisons with Alonso are unfair.

I have to tell you that you are wrong on him being the only midfielder. Scholes and Anderson were much more talented in my opinion and Fletcher was more hardworking and a better tackler. Carrick had the advantage of being available for selection every week. I struggle to remember any memorable game by Carrick bar the game vs Roma in 2007.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Imagine if we had a midfield right now Fred n Carrick (mid to late 20's version) with Bruno ahead of them. Would basically provide everything a midfield needs.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Great player and perfect for us at the time as we were trying to move towards a more 'Continental' style of play to help with our relatively poor CL record.

Not to have a know-it-all attitude but he's a player you only really appreciate when you've played a lot of football - if you just watch football but never really played it at senior level (regardless of whether Sunday League or professional), it's so easy to be influenced by the more emotional sides the the game. This is most prevalent in the UK, in my opinion, for example, a CB who makes a crunching tackle or wins a tough header must therefore be a top CB.

Carrick was understated in almost everything he did, if you watched him for entertainment you'd be bored quickly (aside from longer range passing where he was up there with the best) but he was hardly another Jonjo Shelvey type. His movement and positioning to receive the ball and help out his CBs and FBs was second to none (something we sorely lack now) and he also became a great defensive screener of our back four - he was never an all action DM or CM or making latch ditch sliding tackles and scoring lots of goals but he did all the simple things well and made up for a lack of athleticism with his tactical knowledge. The simple stuff that we take for granted, like dropping off a few metres to be available for a pass or even things as simple as weight of pass and playing the ball onto the correct foot/into the right amount of space for an attacker or midfielder were things he'd do so consistently that maybe it takes the inconsistencies of our current team to really emphasise how good he was in that role.

 

[#07]

Why do you think beckham was so underrated anyway? Its so weird. Do you think its because he was probably one of the first celebrity footballers of this generation? Or because he was a pretty boy? I'm confused about this

I think the underrating of Beckham is partly linked to his celebrity, as you say, but I think the bigger issue is Becks' strange relationship with the national team.

Beckham went from being loved to hated to loved to hated with England in cycles. Around World Cup 2006 there was a lot of negative coverage about him being shoehorned into the England midfield. Beckham became a scapegoat, as he had been in 1998, for the woes of an underperforming England side. At that time a narrative that he was only being picked because of his brand really grew. A lot of neutrals forgot how good he had been. A lot of younger fans had no idea.

I personally have Beckham among my top 5 United greatest ever players ( I acknowledge that there is likely someone nostalgia at play). He was a level or so above Alexander-Arnold. Anyone who says otherwise is seriously underrating him. But if you asked 100 people who have never watched football, who's the best player ever: Beckham would likely win.

I wasn't clear enough, sorry.



But there's definitely 10 better than him.

So you mean Becks has more name recognition than most footballers? Gotcha.

 

[Hammondo]

I always disagree with this topic.

He was a very good player and those who understand football (especially how midfield has changed over the last 30 years) recognised his importance.

But was he ever among the top10 of his period? A period that included:

Xavi
Iniesta
Fabregas
Seedorf
Pirlo
Yaya Toure
Gattuso
Modric
Ballack
De Rossi
Schweinsteiger
Gerrard
Vidal
Senna
Khedria
Alonso
Cambiasso
Zenetti
Mascherano
Essien
Busquets

I think he gets a deserved amount of recognition. I wish we had him at his peak right now. He's well loved at the club and respected by knowledgeable neutral fans.

Claiming he was better than a lot of players listed above, is pure bias.

He was better than a lot of those players.