Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Bilbo]

Yeah just think our targets is a bit low and that we should aim to fight for the title. Although this season it might be harder to reach top 4.
Leicester, Chelsea looks better and Spurs, Everton as well.

We are aiming to fight for a title. That is exactly what the club are trying to do, but its clear to many that this team are not ready yet.

It takes time to build a title winning team. The expectation that you are putting on Ole is to do it quicker than Pep or Klopp managed to, and that isn't realistic in my view.

 

[Mainoldo]

We are aiming to fight for a title. That is exactly what the club are trying to do, but its clear to many that this team are not ready yet.

It takes time to build a title winning team. The expectation that you are putting on Ole is to do it quicker than Pep or Klopp managed to, and that isn't realistic in my view.

Ole is never ever ever in his life. Winning a premier league title. That’s actually what you are waiting for.

The hope is real.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

We are aiming to fight for a title. That is exactly what the club are trying to do, but its clear to many that this team are not ready yet.

It takes time to build a title winning team. The expectation that you are putting on Ole is to do it quicker than Pep or Klopp managed to, and that isn't realistic in my view.

Pep fighted for the title in first year and won it second year though. I don't see title challenge progress under Ole.
Rather I feel our football is going backwards compared to the teams around us.
Bruno was a good buy, but the rest I don't feel are ideal in any ways.
Cavani and Ighalo are pure short term moves.

 

[Flexdegea]

Ole is never ever ever in his life. Winning a premier league title. That’s actually what you are waiting for.

The hope is real.

I could honestly say the exact same thing for some of the other managers mentioned to replace Ole. They never never ever in their life win the league, based on what evidence we seen so far.


Be quite confident of it too.


It's the Hope that kills

 

[Majima]

Im not going to debate that they do things to make themselves look good. Thats a given. Everybody does that.

I dont believe for a second that they would consciously keep a manager that they didnt fancy for PR purposes. What this is, is simply you trying to make sense out of why the club don't feel the same way about this as you do.

You've managed to convince yourself so comprehensively that you're jumping to illogical conclusions, and you can't see the possibility that you might just be wrong.

If we assume the board don't care one bit about us as long as we make top 4 (which isn't far from reality), then why would they care if a better manager was available mid-season?

Can you see Woodward doing a Cortese at Southampton and sacking a fan favorite manager, to appoint a better manager whilst knowing the ridicule he will get? Because I certainly cant. We are reactive to the core at the club here. Remember Jose's last season? That's why we write off full seasons every time a manager doesn't work out.

Ole still being here after the bad spells he's had, at one point last season we was on course for our worst points total ever. At any other top club he would not have survived it would he? You can't help but think it's for PR purposes when you see the way we're ran here. It's the only answer that makes any sense. I don't think I'm jumping to illogical conclusions no.

 

[united_99]

Poch talk again . Another international break gone by where it's a good opportunity for any team to bring him in but no one did, despite him being seen as some kind of genius on here.

I have been picturing him for a long time now sitting in his living room with 5 huge screens where he keeps monitoring United, Arsenal, Chelsea, PSG and RM. Originally he had 7 screens but as Juve and Barca didn’t hire him he had to sell 2 of them.
His football life in the last 12 months must have been exciting.

 

[wolvored]

It's all down to whether the board backs Ole and signs his targets. So far, they have failed to do so and show no signs of changing their ways.

Is Ole a good enough manager to get the current team trophies? No. Is Poch? Probably also no.

The board has to either hire a world-class manager who can get a tune out of this squad OR sign a bunch of new talent. They are doing neither.

I dont get this. Ole has had his targets signed. Maguire Wan Bissaka Bruno James VDB Telles. Hes had a shit load of money for his signings. Just because the club wouldnt spunk £190 mill on 2 players in a season where they are reporting £118 mill revenue losses, doesnt mean he hasnt been extensively backed.

 

[Majima]

Pep fighted for the title in first year and won it second year though. I don't see title challenge progress under Ole.
Rather I feel our football is going backwards compared to the teams around us.
Bruno was a good buy, but the rest I don't feel are ideal in any ways.
Cavani and Ighalo are pure short term moves.

I believe we currently have the best squad since SAF retired. Better than Jose or LVG ever had. The reason why the standards are so low is because of the manager we have.

This is his 2nd full season. Over 100 games, LVG had 103 games, Mourinho 144. We have to expect minimum top 4, and a trophy with the squad we have. Anything less is a failure in my eyes, and he should have no complaints if he's let go.

 

[Majima]

It's all down to whether the board backs Ole and signs his targets. So far, they have failed to do so and show no signs of changing their ways.

Is Ole a good enough manager to get the current team trophies? No. Is Poch? Probably also no.

The board has to either hire a world-class manager who can get a tune out of this squad OR sign a bunch of new talent. They are doing neither.

He's been here 100+ matches. LVG had 103, Mourinho 144. That is plenty enough time.

Is Ole a good enough manager to get the current team trophies? No.

So you believe he's not good enough. Okay debate ended. We are wasting our time with him then are we not?

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I believe we currently have the best squad since SAF retired. Better than Jose or LVG ever had. The reason why the standards are so low is because of the manager we have.

This is his 2nd full season. Over 100 games, LVG had 103 games, Mourinho 144. We have to expect minimum top 4, and a trophy with the squad we have. Anything less is a failure in my eyes, and he should have no complaints if he's let go.

Not sure the squad is that strong though. It should maybe be, but I feel both Rashford and Martial has not taken the final step up to world class level sadly. Might happen soon though last year was good from them.
We have decent defence and keeper, but they also let us down a bit too much.
Pogba should be a world star, but he is not performing like one recently.
Fred and Mctominay are great squad players to have, but lack a bit with the ball to be world class midfielders.
The new ones remains to be seen.

 

[Bilbo]

Pep fighted for the title in first year and won it second year though. I don't see title challenge progress under Ole.
Rather I feel our football is going backwards compared to the teams around us.
Bruno was a good buy, but the rest I don't feel are ideal in any ways.
Cavani and Ighalo are pure short term moves.

Nobody can convince anybody to see title challenge progress. If you dont see it, then you don't see it. I personally do see progress within the squad. Its difficult to talk of title challenges right now because of who we are competing against, but as long as there is progress then im satisfied.

Not sure why you bought up Cavani and Ighalo specifically. Undoubtedly they are short term moves, but sometimes its better to have that than nothing at all, especially if you cant get the longer term solution that you've identified for right now. You fail to mention VDB, Pelestri and Diallo though. Undoubtedly longer term recruitment, so your analysis is unfair

 

[Bilbo]

If we assume the board don't care one bit about us as long as we make top 4 (which isn't far from reality), then why would they care if a better manager was available mid-season?

Can you see Woodward doing a Cortese at Southampton and sacking a fan favorite manager, to appoint a better manager whilst knowing the ridicule he will get? Because I certainly cant. We are reactive to the core at the club here. Remember Jose's last season? That's why we write off full seasons every time a manager doesn't work out.

Ole still being here after the bad spells he's had, at one point last season we was on course for our worst points total ever. At any other top club he would not have survived it would he? You can't help but think it's for PR purposes when you see the way we're ran here. It's the only answer that makes any sense. I don't think I'm jumping to illogical conclusions no.

First of all I dont assume that the club are simply satisfied with top four.

If you're going to accuse the club of being 'reactive to the core' then you should practice what you preach IMO. You were badly shown up by that poster who recently quoted your not too distant words giving huge praise for Ole for how we finished last season. This one has barely gotten going and you've completely u-turned. That seems incredibly reactive to me.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Not sure the squad is that strong though. It should maybe be, but I feel both Rashford and Martial has not taken the final step up to world class level sadly. Might happen soon though last year was good from them.
We have decent defence and keeper, but they also let us down a bit too much.
Pogba should be a world star, but he is not performing like one recently.
Fred and Mctominay are great squad players to have, but lack a bit with the ball to be world class midfielders.
The new ones remains to be seen.

So in other words, our talented players are underperforming. That's the sort of thing a change in coach is supposed to fix.

 

[Majima]

Not sure the squad is that strong though. It should maybe be, but I feel both Rashford and Martial has not taken the final step up to world class level sadly. Might happen soon though last year was good from them.
We have decent defence and keeper, but they also let us down a bit too much.
Pogba should be a world star, but he is not performing like one recently.
Fred and Mctominay are great squad players to have, but lack a bit with the ball to be world class midfielders.
The new ones remains to be seen.

I get that, but just blaming the players is too simple. Look at Bayern under Kovač, the same group of players that everyone thought were finished & needed replacing, winning everything in sight the next season under Flick. The manager makes a massive difference. I really believe if a top manager comes into this group of players, they will take us up another level straight away.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Nobody can convince anybody to see title challenge progress. If you dont see it, then you don't see it. I personally do see progress within the squad. Its difficult to talk of title challenges right now because of who we are competing against, but as long as there is progress then im satisfied.

Not sure why you bought up Cavani and Ighalo specifically. Undoubtedly they are short term moves, but sometimes its better to have that than nothing at all, especially if you cant get the longer term solution that you've identified for right now. You fail to mention VDB, Pelestri and Diallo though. Undoubtedly longer term recruitment, so your analysis is unfair

I don't know enough about Pelestri and Diallo though so can't judge those moves. This might be players for the future.
Not sure how long before we see them in the first team? Fa cup third round maybe if we get a kind draw?

 

[Mainoldo]

I could honestly say the exact same thing for some of the other managers mentioned to replace Ole. They never never ever in their life win the league, based on what evidence we seen so far.


Be quite confident of it too.


It's the Hope that kills

Only one team can win the league. It’s normally competed with the best managers and most funded team. I’m pretty confident we would be a lot closer with a competent manager. No hope needed just common sense. It’s just a shame we are ran by board member's who think like our Ole inners. So yes the hope of common sense is killing me.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

So in other words, our talented players are underperforming. That's the sort of thing a change in coach is supposed to fix.

¨
Yeah I think this season Martial and Pogba are underperforming a lot. I hope we can sort it out since we need them in good form.

 

[Majima]

First of all I dont assume that the club are simply satisfied with top four.

If you're going to accuse the club of being 'reactive to the core' then you should practice what you preach IMO. You were badly shown up by that poster who recently quoted your not too distant words giving huge praise for Ole for how we finished last season. This one has barely gotten going and you've completely u-turned. That seems incredibly reactive to me.

Regardless of my opinion on Ole I'm still a fan. I would love to see him succeed as Ole success = club success. I was just caught up in that for a short period. It's as simple as this, I think this squad now is better than anything Jose or LVG ever had, but Ole is not good enough to get the best out of it. I don't think we will ever win anything significant under him, so that's why if a better manager becomes available, i would like to see us be ruthless and go for it.

 

[Majima]

I dont get this. Ole has had his targets signed. Maguire Wan Bissaka Bruno James VDB Telles. Hes had a shit load of money for his signings. Just because the club wouldnt spunk £190 mill on 2 players in a season where they are reporting £118 mill revenue losses, doesnt mean he hasnt been extensively backed.

Mad isn't it? There's a narrative being spun that he hasn't actually been backed. Do people not realise this squad, not just the team is unrecognisable to the one he inherited from Jose? He's had 100 matches, and I would strongly argue the squad now is strong enough to be competing for trophies, no excuses.

If we're not getting anywhere, it's because he isn't good enough to get the best out of them. If we can't break down West Brom tomorrow, it's not going to be because he wasn't given Sancho or Håland...

 

[NJM78]

He 100% has to win tomorrow.

 

[Majima]

All I can see is this squad is better than anything Jose or LVG ever had, (we've just been toe to toe with PSG & Leipzig back to back and didn't bat an eyelid). Yet the expectations are on the floor.

Can anyone answer why is that?

 

[Bilbo]

I don't know enough about Pelestri and Diallo though so can't judge those moves. This might be players for the future.
Not sure how long before we see them in the first team? Fa cup third round maybe if we get a kind draw?

I have no idea. Everybody seems to have very high hopes for Diallo in particular, so he may come in and light up the team. Who knows.

Point being though, these and many other of the younger players we are bringing in are welcome signs that the club is looking to the future.

 

[Flexdegea]

Only one team can win the league. It’s normally competed with the best managers and most funded team. I’m pretty confident we would be a lot closer with a competent manager. No hope needed just common sense. It’s just a shame we are ran by board member's who think like our Ole inners. So yes the hope of common sense is killing me.

Ole Inners says it's all

 

[Bilbo]

Regardless of my opinion on Ole I'm still a fan. I would love to see him succeed as Ole success = club success. I was just caught up in that for a short period. It's as simple as this, I think this squad is better than anything Jose or LVG ever had, but Ole is not good enough to get the best out of it. I don't think we will ever win anything significant under him, so that's why if a better manager becomes available, i would like to see us be ruthless and go for it.

Fair enough. I for one am very grateful that the club do not share your view. Ole is going to be here for a while yet it seems, so you may as well try to get comfortable with that.

 

[wolvored]

Mad isn't it? There's a narrative being spun that he hasn't actually been backed. Do people not realise this squad, not just the team is unrecognisable to the one he inherited from Jose? He's had 100 matches, and I would strongly argue the squad now is strong enough to be competing for trophies, no excuses.

If we're not getting anywhere, it's because he isn't good enough to get the best out of them. If we can't break down West Brom tomorrow, it's not going to be because he wasn't given Sancho or Håland...

Exactly. Ive said the same myself. With this squad, the strongest since Fergie, we should be getting closer to a title win. We should at least be beating the likes of Palace, not struggling to Brighton and not getting hammered by Spurs.

 

[youngrell]

I believe we currently have the best squad since SAF retired. Better than Jose or LVG ever had. The reason why the standards are so low is because of the manager we have.

The manager has assembled the best squad we’ve had since 2013 but we are shite because of the manager?

Doesn’t make sense.

 

[Bilbo]

All I can see is this squad is better than anything Jose or LVG ever had, (we've just been toe to toe with PSG & Leipzig back to back and didn't bat an eyelid). Yet the expectations are on the floor.

Can anyone answer why is that?

Expectations are not on the floor. Its ridiculous to keep on claiming that they are. Surely you are aware that there other options available in between 'must challenge for the title right now' and 'no expectations whatsoever'?

The target is continued progress, whatever that may look like. You yourself claim that this is the strongest squad we've had since Ferguson. Thats progress isn't it? Finishing 3rd and getting us back into the Champions League, AND so far being very competitive at that level is progress, isnt it? Yet all you want to do is to remove the manager thats been in charge throughout this period. Its bonkers.

The next hurdle for Ole now is to get this team playing well and winning games more consistently. Its probably the toughest hurdle of them all. Failure to do that will at some point cost him his job. If he succeeds we could be on the cusp of another period of success.

 

[Leftback99]

All I can see is this squad is better than anything Jose or LVG ever had, (we've just been toe to toe with PSG & Leipzig back to back and didn't bat an eyelid). Yet the expectations are on the floor.

Can anyone answer why is that?

If Ole gets top 4 this season it will be an epic achievement.

None of what is happening now is to do with Ole or the players.

Morale is at an all time low because of the board's failure to deliver on their promises. They made out all along that getting top 4 = Sancho.

No depth in a gruelling schedule. Players are going to have to run themselves into the ground to do it. And for what payoff? Get shafted again like this summer?

I expect he will be the fall guy for the board and get the sack by Christmas after a meltdown season ala Mourinho 15/16 at Chelsea. There's already news today of Poch being sounded out & pressure being put on Ole to perform. I can see it a mile off.

"No depth"
"EPIC achievement if Ole gets top 4"

 

[Majima]

Expectations are not on the floor. Its ridiculous to keep on claiming that they are. Surely you are aware that there other options available in between 'must challenge for the title right now' and 'no expectations whatsoever'?

The target is continued progress, whatever that may look like. You yourself claim that this is the strongest squad we've had since Ferguson. Thats progress isn't it? Finishing 3rd and getting us back into the Champions League, AND so far being very competitive at that level is progress, isnt it? Yet all you want to do is to remove the manager thats been in charge throughout this period. Its bonkers.

The next hurdle for Ole now is to get this team playing well and winning games more consistently. Its probably the toughest hurdle of them all. Failure to do that will at some point cost him his job. If he succeeds we could be on the cusp of another period of success.

But the expectations are on the floor from the fans. I'm not saying we have to challenge for the title right now, but we should be expecting comfortable top 4 and a trophy after 100 games in charge. I don't get the feeling those are the minimum expectations from the fans.

Yes the fact that we have such a strong squad is progress. Competing in CL is also progress, definitely. The reason why I advocate the removal of him though, is because of how poor we were for the majority of last season, and now this. We were in top 4 for the first time that season, after GW38. Fair play we achieved it, but it was very fortunate.

Your last paragraph is exactly the expectations I'm levelling at Ole. I might not believe he can achieve it myself, but if he can achieve that, I would have no complaints from him, as I agree the club will then be on the verge of major success. Because when you look at how far away we are from Liverpool or City right now, I don't think our relative squads are actually that far apart in reality. It's the difference in what the manager is extracting from their squad.

 

[Majima]

"No depth"
"EPIC achievement if Ole gets top 4"

I was talking absolute rubbish then I agree. I overblown the importance of not getting Sancho, and the effect of the schedule. Thinking about it afterwards, we've got tons of depth now. Cavani/VDB/Telles might not have been what we were expecting but it's still a very good window after the fact.

Now seeing as you replied, can you answer my first question please.

 

[Majima]

The manager has assembled the best squad we’ve had since 2013 but we are shite because of the manager?

Doesn’t make sense.

It means the squad we have shouldn't be getting battered away to Brighton, or embarrassed by Spurs at home. The fans however keep on blaming the players for all our problems, without considering why we still aren't any closer to solving the same old problems after 100+ games in charge.

 

[Leftback99]

I was talking absolute rubbish then I agree. I overblown the importance of not getting Sancho, and the effect of the schedule. Thinking about it afterwards, we've got tons of depth now. Cavani/VDB/Telles might not have been what we were expecting but it's still a very good window after the fact.

Now seeing as you replied, can you answer my first question please.

My expectations aren't on the floor. I'm just realistic that we haven't got a better squad than Liverpool, City or Chelsea after their Summer business. We've also let Spurs catch up by us not doing enough in the window.

 

[FatherWolff]

I haven't got much to say in response. As good as he did there, Molde didn't miss him when he left the first time (won double next season, set new record 71 points), and they haven't now (won the league last season, Ole failed 3 seasons before). Yes, his reputation would have taken a massive hit. He was disastrous in the Championship too.

He might have decided to stay in Norway instead of taking on another Championship side, (because even Ole admitted he wasn't ready for it), but there's no chance he was turning down offers from top 10 PL clubs to stay in Norway since then.

If you have evidence of top 10 PL clubs being interested after Cardiff I would love to see it.

Just another post which show how lazy you are and how little information you base your conclusions on. It has been well documented in this thread by locals how he rebuild the squad several times as the selling club Molde is. It actually show what the work of a rebuild is, and how he made that club what it is.

As you already showed your laziness, I guess you have not read the recent interview of Ben Turner. It confirms the difficulty of the Cardiff job, not being able to buy or pick you own team. Sure, if you like to call Ole a failure playing 7 games in the championship, loosing two games to playoffs finishers and to Middlesborough with a totally new team, go right ahead! Another thing just testamening to your limited information conclusions. It has been posted I detail what he did for Molde by the locals in this thread. Are you this lazy in your work life also?

I’m not to bothered continuing our discussion.
He has my full support for now. And even if I have twice the football education of posters like yourself, I’m not pretending to know more than I do. But knee jerking and changing goalposts every week in a rebuild is not for me. Even if that makes me a noob and you a full time member of doom..

 

[sammsky1]

We’re dealing with a board of parasitic leeching festering cvnts - they are not going to help Ole, another manager, or the fans. Get that onto your heads you gammon Ole outers. Then go and vote Trump or something

I’ve also hypothesised that intersectionality!

 

[Mainoldo]

Just another post which show how lazy you are and how little information you base your conclusions on. It has been well documented in this thread by locals how he rebuild the squad several times as the selling club Molde is. It actually show what the work of a rebuild is, and how he made that club what it is.

As you already showed your laziness, I guess you have not read the recent interview of Ben Turner. It confirms the difficulty of the Cardiff job, not being able to buy or pick you own team. Sure, if you like to call Ole a failure playing 7 games in the championship, loosing two games to playoffs finishers and to Middlesborough with a totally new team, go right ahead! Another thing just testamening to your limited information conclusions. It has been posted I detail what he did for Molde by the locals in this thread. Are you this lazy in your work life also?

I’m not to bothered continuing our discussion.
He has my full support for now. And even if I have twice the football education of posters like yourself, I’m not pretending to know more than I do. But knee jerking and changing goalposts every week in a rebuild is not for me. Even if that makes me a noob and you a full time member of doom..

You admit your lack of knowledge but want to stand on your comments from other posters about him in other jobs? Go do your own research. List the players he got from Cardiff and let me know how many are not Ole influenced. You think any other manager gets Zaha? What great players did he lose at Molde to make him not compete? I’m pretty sure they are the Chelsea of that league funds wise.

 

[90 + 5min]

You’re on your own mate. We all want United to win. Not sure what you’re on.

I’m always behind team, players and managers. Always.
It is not what all our fans are. Looking at some posts here and in game threads there are those who want us to lose games because they don’t like him.

 

[Mainoldo]

I’ve also hypothesised that intersectionality!

I thought you guys were the Decepticons

 

[Widow]

The manager has assembled the best squad we’ve had since 2013 but we are shite because of the manager?

Doesn’t make sense.

You answered your own question.. It doesn't make sense!

He has assembled the best squad since 2013. In comings and out goings yet, we are on one of our worse runs since (insert date) we always seem to be breaking some terrible stat with Ole.

If he can't do better with a squad that's the strongest it's been for 7 years, surely it's his management skills that are lacking.

OOle for DoF?

 

[meamth]

You answered your own question.. It doesn't make sense!

He has assembled the best squad since 2013. In comings and out goings yet, we are on one of our worse runs since (insert date) we always seem to be breaking some terrible stat with Ole.

If he can't do better with a squad that's the strongest it's been for 7 years, surely it's his management skills that are lacking.

OOle for DoF?

It does make sense if you take bad form/preparation/transfer window into consideration....but nah, most people will ignore that and just want results, results, results, without understanding the context.

 

[Flexdegea]

You answered your own question.. It doesn't make sense!

He has assembled the best squad since 2013. In comings and out goings yet, we are on one of our worse runs since (insert date) we always seem to be breaking some terrible stat with Ole.

If he can't do better with a squad that's the strongest it's been for 7 years, surely it's his management skills that are lacking.

OOle for DoF?

Breaking some positive records along the way too it must be added