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De Gea could have a literal wall in front of him and he'd still be so nervy and gutless, it's how he's always been. The CB's aren't the route cause of his anxiety, because he always has that, no matter whose in front of him.
I did think about using xG but I think most people agree that it's far too flawed as a metric to be of much use.Percentage of shots saved is a pretty basic way of judging tbh. A really good poster would be bringing xG stats into the thread and breaking them down for us. Must do better.
Painfully arrogant post but general correct. De Gea is a huge problem. He’s just not good enough. At any element of goalkeeping.Some statistics for all the 'it woz the defence' posters who are once again hammering our CBs for being so terrible that they conceded three shots on target (arguably two if you excuse the one the GK directly causes) in a game against top six opposition.
These are the statistics for the shots on target faced by the GKs currently playing for our main rivals
GOALKEEPER SHOTS FACED SAVED GA % SAVES LLORIS 89 67 22 75 EDERSON 44 32 12 73 ALISSON 52 37 15 71 SCHMEICHEL 86 61 25 71 MENDY 45 31 14 69 PICKFORD 70 48 22 69 DE GEA 69 42 27 61
As you can all clearly see, De Gea is BY FAR the worst GK, in terms of actually saving shots (his job). That's before you even get into the fact that most, if not all, of the GKs above have other standout attributes beyond shot-stopping i.e. Schmeichel = command of area, Ederson = passing out from the back, Alisson = playing as a sweeper-keeper.
Then, I have tried to break that down into something meaningful to show you how big of an impact those numbers have, because on their own I understand it's quite hard to quantify what the difference is between 61% save rate and 71% save rate, for example.
Here is what would happen if a GK with the same percentage save rate as De Gea played for each of our rivals
IF DEA PLAYED FOR… SHOTS FACED SAVED GA DIFF +/- TOTTENHAM 89 54 35 13 MAN CITY 44 27 17 5 LIVERPOOL 52 32 20 5 LEICESTER 86 52 34 9 CHELSEA 45 27 18 4 EVERTON 70 43 27 5
As you can see, the difference is stark. Chelsea and Everton, neither of whom have good GKs, are both 4 and 5 goals better off respectively. Man City and Liverpool, despite facing a relatively small number of shots, are still five goals worse off. In the case of Man City, that is nearly a 50% increase on their TOTAL goals conceded this year.
Imagine what would happen if De Gea were in goal at Spurs or Leicester! The stats tell you those teams wouldn't even be in a top four race, having conceded 13 and 9 more goals.
See, this is the difference between the good posters (like me) and the bad ones. Many come on here bleating about stuff, mainly influenced by simple narratives pushed by sh**e pundits who don't know their arse from their elbow.
Some of us take the time to dig a bit deeper. The FACT is that United don't concede an unusual number of shots on target and we don't give away an unusual number of good chances. The FACT (sorry to get a Rafa) is that De Gea saves significantly LESS of these shots than his counterparts at our main rivals.
Again, I repeat, this is even before you consider his other major flaws as a GK, compared with the more aggressive, pro-active goalkeeping styles of players like Alisson, Ederson or Schemeichel.
The FACT is people....you can bleat about the defence all you like but football teams will always concede shots on target. No manager yet has worked out how to stop the opposition having ANY shots. No defence yet has been good enough to go an entire PL season without conceding shots on target (FACT).
Therefore, when teams inevitably DO have shots on target, like the three they had on target tonight (I repeat, one as a result of a direct goalkeeping error), it would be quite nice if the t**t between the sticks would have the good grace not to move out the way of at least one for his £350K per week.
If any of you want to seriously argue with me that our defence is poor because a top six team had three (arguably two) shots on our goal then go for it, I'm all ears....
I don't say the 'only' problem....I'm pointing out he is the biggest.Painfully arrogant post but general correct. De Gea is a huge problem. He’s just not good enough. At any element of goalkeeping.
Although your insistence that De Gea is the only problem is completely undermined by your own stats, which reveal that four others keepers have faced considerably fewer shots.
Brilliant post to be fair.Some statistics for all the 'it woz the defence' posters who are once again hammering our CBs for being so terrible that they conceded three shots on target (arguably two if you excuse the one the GK directly causes) in a game against top six opposition.
These are the statistics for the shots on target faced by the GKs currently playing for our main rivals
GOALKEEPER SHOTS FACED SAVED GA % SAVES LLORIS 89 67 22 75 EDERSON 44 32 12 73 ALISSON 52 37 15 71 SCHMEICHEL 86 61 25 71 MENDY 45 31 14 69 PICKFORD 70 48 22 69 DE GEA 69 42 27 61
As you can all clearly see, De Gea is BY FAR the worst GK, in terms of actually saving shots (his job). That's before you even get into the fact that most, if not all, of the GKs above have other standout attributes beyond shot-stopping i.e. Schmeichel = command of area, Ederson = passing out from the back, Alisson = playing as a sweeper-keeper.
Then, I have tried to break that down into something meaningful to show you how big of an impact those numbers have, because on their own I understand it's quite hard to quantify what the difference is between 61% save rate and 71% save rate, for example.
Here is what would happen if a GK with the same percentage save rate as De Gea played for each of our rivals
IF DEA PLAYED FOR… SHOTS FACED SAVED GA DIFF +/- TOTTENHAM 89 54 35 13 MAN CITY 44 27 17 5 LIVERPOOL 52 32 20 5 LEICESTER 86 52 34 9 CHELSEA 45 27 18 4 EVERTON 70 43 27 5
As you can see, the difference is stark. Chelsea and Everton, neither of whom have good GKs, are both 4 and 5 goals better off respectively. Man City and Liverpool, despite facing a relatively small number of shots, are still five goals worse off. In the case of Man City, that is nearly a 50% increase on their TOTAL goals conceded this year.
Imagine what would happen if De Gea were in goal at Spurs or Leicester! The stats tell you those teams wouldn't even be in a top four race, having conceded 13 and 9 more goals.
See, this is the difference between the good posters (like me) and the bad ones. Many come on here bleating about stuff, mainly influenced by simple narratives pushed by sh**e pundits who don't know their arse from their elbow.
Some of us take the time to dig a bit deeper. The FACT is that United don't concede an unusual number of shots on target and we don't give away an unusual number of good chances. The FACT (sorry to get a Rafa) is that De Gea saves significantly LESS of these shots than his counterparts at our main rivals.
Again, I repeat, this is even before you consider his other major flaws as a GK, compared with the more aggressive, pro-active goalkeeping styles of players like Alisson, Ederson or Schemeichel.
The FACT is people....you can bleat about the defence all you like but football teams will always concede shots on target. No manager yet has worked out how to stop the opposition having ANY shots. No defence yet has been good enough to go an entire PL season without conceding shots on target (FACT).
Therefore, when teams inevitably DO have shots on target, like the three they had on target tonight (I repeat, one as a result of a direct goalkeeping error), it would be quite nice if the t**t between the sticks would have the good grace not to move out the way of at least one for his £350K per week.
If any of you want to seriously argue with me that our defence is poor because a top six team had three (arguably two) shots on our goal then go for it, I'm all ears....
I don’t see any kind of mass objections to De Gea being a big problem for us. That’s as close as you will ever get to consensus on redcafe. You’re tilting at windmills.I don't say the 'only' problem....I'm pointing out he is the biggest.
Teams will always face a different number of shots as they play football in a different way. You could also get into stuff like expected saves and expected goals, but again, let's just show the very simple, very basic facts as they are.
Plus, as I am sure you are well aware, this isn't the first season De Gea has ranked near the bottom for saves, expected saves and 'mistakes leading to goals', it's probably the 3rd now in a row.
And yes I come across as arrogant sometimes...because ever since this forum got opened up to anybody and everybody it's full of absolute drivel supported by nothing. At least I take the time to back up my arrogant opinions with some basic fact-checking
I don't think you can blame him for making an attempt. If he'd left it and there was an attacker coming in on his back post he would absolutely be to blame. His piss poor weak-wristed touch which dropped it into the perfect spot for anybody coming into the centre was the issue. He should have got significantly more power into that to push it further from goal.Just watched their first goal again. He didn’t even need to touch the ball. If he’d left it altogether we’d have been better off.
I don't know what 'tilting at windmills' means...all I know is my fiance won't listen to me talking about De Gea's expected saves for two hours and I can't go down the pub....so RedCafe it isI don’t see any kind of mass objections to De Gea being a big problem for us. That’s as close as you will ever get to consensus on redcafe. You’re tilting at windmills.
The mistakes were the big problem in the last two seasons but I really don't think they are this season as he hasn't actually made that many.Brilliant post to be fair.
I've well and truly had enough of him.
I now liken De Gea to the block-stacking game of Jenga:
- The blocks are football matches
- Each block that is safely removed from the tower, is a match that De Gea does NOT mess up in
- The block that causes the tower to collapse, is a match that De Gea DOES mess up in
...you know that the stack will come down at some point, you just don't know which block is going to cause the collapse
...you know De Gea will make a mistake at some point, you just don't know which football match it’s going to be in - and for that reason he can no longer be trusted to be our number 1 goalkeeper.
There was no attacker at the back post though. He should have known that. It’s not just outfield players who need to be aware what’s round them. Obviously having made the decision to go for the ball he dealt with it in the worst possible way. Which is even more annoying when you consider he didn’t need to deal with it at all.I don't think you can blame him for making an attempt. If he'd left it and there was an attacker coming in on his back post he would absolutely be to blame. His piss poor weak-wristed touch which dropped it into the perfect spot for anybody coming into the centre was the issue. He should have got significantly more power into that to push it further from goal.
That could be part of the problem. Perhaps he isn't fully motivated, has become stale and needs challenging. Drop him, give him some real competition and let's see if he responds. £375,000 per week new contract has possibly made him complacent. Put him to the test and demand more of him.I implore Henderson to request a transfer if de Gea is not dropped from here on out.
Honestly makes me feel physically ill the amount of times de Gea has been solely culpable for goals in crucial matches over the past few years. How can he continue to perform his job so poorly and face no consequences? It really hurts and is unfair to the other players at the club.
He may (hopefully) know that Doucoure is the only attacker in the area, but for most of that play Doucoure looked more likely to be going to the back post. By the time he makes the move to the near side the cross is about to come in and De Gea definitely couldn't be looking around.There was no attacker at the back post though. He should have known that. It’s not just outfield players who need to be aware what’s round them. Obviously having made the decision to go for the ball he dealt with it in the worst possible way. Which is even more annoying when you consider he didn’t need to deal with it at all.
Dont be daft. What do you expect Ole to do? Throw him under the bus like a Jose? You were fine with Jose for pointing players for their mistakes in public?Don't worry, Ole will sit on his ass and support De Gea again as usual for the third season running.
I doubt it. In the post match interview, Ole said he doesn’t want to blame anyone. It by itself means that he clearly identified who is making the fatal mistake. This game is so shock to everyone. I believe there will be a consequence for us to get out of the current poor run (one loss and several draws in the last few games)Don't worry, Ole will sit on his ass and support De Gea again as usual for the third season running.
Dont be daft. What do you expect Ole to do? Throw him under the bus like a Jose? You were fine with Jose for pointing players for their mistakes in public?
He really isn't. He used to be a top goalkeeper, but he hasn't been for years, you can't just put 3 years down as bad form. Most Premier League teams have better goalkeepers than De Gea. It says it all that shot stopping is meant to be his biggest asset, but he's 17th in goalkeeper save %, and he's been posting numbers like that for years now. Even in his prime he wasn't good at coming off his line and commanding the box.He's still a top goalkeeper, but he's prone to more mistakes now. Perhaps it's a concentration issue. His confidence seems fragile too, which isn't being helped by Laurel and Hardy at centre back in front of him. He's never been a brave goalkeeper.
This isn't similar to Mourinho's treatment of the likes of Shaw, Martial and Pogba who were unfairly targeted. Continuing how we are would be more like how Matic and Lukaku played every single match no matter how bad they were, and Mourinho refused to give anyone else a real chance.Dont be daft. What do you expect Ole to do? Throw him under the bus like a Jose? You were fine with Jose for pointing players for their mistakes in public?
He’s part of the defense. He’s part of the problem.No posts at all in here for nearly 2 months. Now I see all the De Gea out parade are back in full force.
He isn’t the problem, the fecking defence is.
What's he part of?No posts at all in here for nearly 2 months. Now I see all the De Gea out parade are back in full force.
He isn’t the problem, the fecking defence is.