Only those who blame that defending from the second half today on a stoppage time sub.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Well, we don't have to. At one stage this season everyone was crowing about our GK options. How about we get them preforming like they're capable of. We can drop De Gea and maybe light a fire under his backside.
That's not the case though, is it? There's people saying nobody can criticise Ole today, as though this game exists in a vacuum.
Ole in or Ole out, it’s not good enough. Need to see an improvement in defence and better organization and composure.
Not good enough today and not a crime to say it.
Not good enough today and not a crime to say it.
I know one thing for sure. If he stays (and he will i presume), his role in transfers should be limited on only "yes i want him" or "no, i don't want him". For that we need DoF of course. Bruno and Cavani are his two excellent buys but the rest...
Spent 130 mil on two defenders with major flaws and who are mot good enough, spent 15 mil on useless winger and 40 mil on midfielder for whom he doesn't have a plan where to play him.
Spent 130 mil on two defenders with major flaws and who are mot good enough, spent 15 mil on useless winger and 40 mil on midfielder for whom he doesn't have a plan where to play him.
He certainly has done well to not come under scrutiny regarding this. The commentators crack jokes about VDB but don't really question the whole situation like they did players under Jose, for example.
James never gets mentioned and the pundits seem to love AWB and Maguire.
I thought Cavani was Woodwards transfer and not Ole's, at least that's what everybody was saying in September
AWB and Maguire have been good. The latter will never justify his fee but is here for the best years of his career. James was a punt who will be moved on no problem with little or no loss. Van de Beek may or may not be his signing - we all know Sancho was the main target and Grealish was also likely to be higher up in the pecking order of targets. Still though he shouldn’t be judged until next season.
The same problems remain. Hes a good man manager and he can set a team out well but tactically he is horrible. Easy to outthink midgame and never has a response to anything during a match. Same reason we are poor in big games.
Ferguson was aware he wasnt the best tactically so he surrounded himself with excellent coaches. Ole needs to do the same or he will always fall short.
Edit: oh and when he did finally make a fecking sub it was the guy who cost us the daft free kick for the goal, and bringing him on added the extra time over the 4 minutes they needed to score.
Ferguson was aware he wasnt the best tactically so he surrounded himself with excellent coaches. Ole needs to do the same or he will always fall short.
Edit: oh and when he did finally make a fecking sub it was the guy who cost us the daft free kick for the goal, and bringing him on added the extra time over the 4 minutes they needed to score.
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In september Cavani was Ed's transfer. Donny became Ed's transfer later and James is bought only because of Giggs.
But joking aside, for me every player bought under one manager is his player. Only difference is he the one who picked them by name or he has last word on it (yes or no).
If you look at some of his quotes; Harry, Awb and Bruno were defo players who he wanted by name and on who he insisted. One is great, one is waste of money and one is useful in some games (but not 50mil useful).
They've been good by what standards though? We're still sat here talking about our defence when we spent the best part of £150m on those two and Luke Shaw has been one of our best players recently. How much better can it get by adding one more CB?
And regarding VDB, he has the option to veto signings according to articles written about our transfer structure.
What if VDB isn't his signing ? He's now his player regardless. Just use him. Not really sure why a manager won't benefit from a player in the squad just because he didn't like him. I don't know, maybe if he plays regularly he'll end up liking him ? Freezing him out is weird management.
VBD hasn't set the world on lights and I may not even be that convinced with him but he's now our player. Use him regularly instead of throwing 40m out of the window like this.
My only issue with him today - his 80m signing.
Still wondering how the feck did he thought Maguire can be our answer to CB situation by spending 80m
Still wondering how the feck did he thought Maguire can be our answer to CB situation by spending 80m
We played really well.
But it's a bit worrying that we seem to be bottlers.
I just worry we're 'the nearly there' team under Ole and always will be.
But it's a bit worrying that we seem to be bottlers.
I just worry we're 'the nearly there' team under Ole and always will be.
I agree. All transfers good or bad are the managers choice. It's also the managers choice on how he spends his budget, well or not. If you spend the majority of the budget on one player again the managers choice, good decision or not.In september Cavani was Ed's transfer. Donny became Ed's transfer later and James is bought only because of Giggs.
But joking aside, for me every player bought under one manager is his player. Only difference is he the one who picked them by name or he has last word on it (yes or no).
If you look at some of his quotes; Harry, Awb and Bruno were defo players who he wanted by name and on who he insisted. One is great, one is waste of money and one is useful in some games (but not 50mil useful).
Good? Your "good" has different meaning than mein i guess.
And what does that mean "not his signing"? Can someone explain that to me. So basically you are saying that Ed signs a player (so invests millions of euros) and says to manager; "Hey, guess what? I bought you player. He will come tomorrow. His name is Donny".
As others have pointed out he's not helped by having such an inexperienced coaching team. Needs to get some help to hide his weaknesses and let his good qualities shine.
I didn’t like the Tuanzebe sub, felt like the team was coping fine. An extra defender makes sense in theory but sometimes it adds a bit of confusion into the team so late on.
But he picked that coaching team ffs.
So he needs around 500-600 mil more to have HIS squad. And we must spend exactly on his A targets (Grealish, Haaland, Sancho, Upamecano and who knows how many more) and he needs world class coaches around him to advise him.
Hm...why the hell we need him then?
What I want to see from him at the start of next season (definitely assuming he's still here) is publicly saying we're fighting for the title and that that is the aim. And if he's not getting the support he needs during the summer, to put some sort of pressure on so it's at least visible that he wants to see more ambition.
The whole work-in-progress thing is fine, but next season he should already have a team that can handle playing good football on a very consistent basis, mind, not accruing the points totals of City or Liverpool in recent seasons, but comfortably +80, taking control of games against most sides and playing with more tempo and purposeful movement. There are hints of that, but we're still imbalanced, mentally inconsistent, and the central defensive pairing obviously cannot play a high line (and he partly created that pairing).
The whole work-in-progress thing is fine, but next season he should already have a team that can handle playing good football on a very consistent basis, mind, not accruing the points totals of City or Liverpool in recent seasons, but comfortably +80, taking control of games against most sides and playing with more tempo and purposeful movement. There are hints of that, but we're still imbalanced, mentally inconsistent, and the central defensive pairing obviously cannot play a high line (and he partly created that pairing).
This is incorrect
2W 2D 1L.
Not counting today it was just a freak day where everything went in favor of Everton for all 3 goals.
Sheffield United- refereeing feckup. We did enough but refereeing mistakes cost us.
Questions needs to be asked if we continue the pattern in next 5 games though.
I have mentioned it on other posts on this forum, but not only do we have a manager of limited top level experience but his coaching staff are way below the level he needs to support his lack of top level experience. Other than Mike Phelan ( who was as a player, played in a number of defensive positions,, but was master of none and as a coach limited. We have Carrick, plus former youth team coach and Fletcher still training for his coaching qualifications.
This is not the coaching team with it's collective experience to take us to the next level in the premier league let alone Europe.
This is not the coaching team with it's collective experience to take us to the next level in the premier league let alone Europe.
Playing the occasional game here and a game there is difficult for anybody, but particularly a goalkeeper.
It's absolutely possible that Henderson might be no better than De Gea, or perhaps even worse. He might also be better. We won't know until he gets a proper run of games. What we do know is that Henderson was better at Sheffield United last season than De Gea was here, and De Gea is no longer good enough. We need to know whether Henderson is the right one to take over otherwise we need to start looking outside the club.
The thing that puzzled me from Ole tonight was what did he instruct Fred to do, I thought we'd have had McFred sit in front of the CB's and play on the counter as we had a 2 goal lead and that's usually their function, but instead Fred was playing as an AM and leaving McTominay stranded.
The substitution he made was a mistake, not because he made it but how it changed us.
I always think when you're in control of a game you don't take off a striker for a defender. You are essentially adding an extra man at the back with not much time to change and get used to the formation, which can cause confusion. Also it will take a bit of time for the defender to be calm.
Also it invites pressure . We had Everton pinned in, and Mason going off meant our outlet on the right was taken off and not replaced. Meaning Everton could take more of a chance to push forward with less risk of being hurt in open play
We saw it a lot under Jose, trying to defend a one goal lead. Mason going off was fine but it should have been Rashford I think who was a bit more sloppy with holding the ball
But if that change happens you need to bring on another striker or a midfielder like Matic (for his height) or vdb (to keep the ball) or James (to get the ball and run)
Just my thoughts. This might seem hindsight but I said it at the time and I normally always say this when you're in charge of a game. Don't invite the opposition to attack you
I always think when you're in control of a game you don't take off a striker for a defender. You are essentially adding an extra man at the back with not much time to change and get used to the formation, which can cause confusion. Also it will take a bit of time for the defender to be calm.
Also it invites pressure . We had Everton pinned in, and Mason going off meant our outlet on the right was taken off and not replaced. Meaning Everton could take more of a chance to push forward with less risk of being hurt in open play
We saw it a lot under Jose, trying to defend a one goal lead. Mason going off was fine but it should have been Rashford I think who was a bit more sloppy with holding the ball
But if that change happens you need to bring on another striker or a midfielder like Matic (for his height) or vdb (to keep the ball) or James (to get the ball and run)
Just my thoughts. This might seem hindsight but I said it at the time and I normally always say this when you're in charge of a game. Don't invite the opposition to attack you
We didn't do enough against Sheffield.
I couldn't agree anymore. In these dying minutes, we need control and experience to see out games. Tuanzebe brings neither. All it did was invite pressure and possibly mistakes like you described. I thought it smacked of cowardice tbh. It just told Everton "you can have the ball back, we'll try to defend this with a low line".
Your last sentence describes perfectly my thoughts
How the hell do you know that it’s not been “yes or no I don’t want him” for the entirety of his reign.
Maguire has been brilliant the whole season and AWB is getting better and better.
The over reaction in here when we drop any points is frightening.
It's time for him to drop De Gea. Too many instances now where he completely bottles it.
I've seen so many managers do it and it doesn't work
I'd love to see the numbers on how many times it fails vs how many times it has an influence.
Moyes did it, Jose did it, even Hodgson for England in the world Cup
I'm surprised Ole did it as he was one of the best at reading a game when he was a substitute. Thought he would realise keeping the ball was more important with two minutes to go vs defending for our lives
Set the team up right, but when Pogba went off I thought at the time it was the wrong call not to bring on VdB. Not because Fred was particularly bad, but because it was the wrong balance. McTominay was already having a good defensive game, so a bit of creativity would've gone a long way to keep the pressure up. No need for another ball-winner.
Also, it left Ole with a difficult decision to make if he wanted to bring VdB on when Everton equalised. McTominay wasn't going to come off as he was playing well, and it's not like he was going to sub Fred off again after already subbing him on. You don't take Bruno off in that situation either. That leaves no room for VdB without completely ruining Fred.
Having said that, United was the better team throughout, and that last goal against is such a cock-up of individual headless chicken impersonations. Shouldn't be happening, and it's extremely annoying to everyone.
Also, it left Ole with a difficult decision to make if he wanted to bring VdB on when Everton equalised. McTominay wasn't going to come off as he was playing well, and it's not like he was going to sub Fred off again after already subbing him on. You don't take Bruno off in that situation either. That leaves no room for VdB without completely ruining Fred.
Having said that, United was the better team throughout, and that last goal against is such a cock-up of individual headless chicken impersonations. Shouldn't be happening, and it's extremely annoying to everyone.
More than anything, I hated how it made us appear, like cowards. It's not like Everton were really that threatening after 3-2 anyway.
Drop De Gea
And Maguire
Actually no since we have no defender better than him
Feck me
And Maguire
Actually no since we have no defender better than him
Feck me
I don't see how any United fan could dislike Ole, honestly. I guess many people forgot or don't know what Manchester United is all about.
I was extremely unhappy in the years since SAF retired, because we started to look like any other ordinary "big team", or at least "rich team". Getting tons of players every summer, changing managers every one or two years, not having any perspective for the future... Everything that happened to Moyes was his own doing (saying "I don't know what to do to win a game at this point" was the last nail). We made a mistake with him, happens.. But after him? Getting managers who are clearly the temporary solution (LVG and Jose were not getting any younger, were they?). Both of them started transforming the team into something that it never was. LVG and his pointless possession football was ridiculous, and Jose is just so damn negative in everything he does. The squad was left without balance or purpose whatsoever. Negative football, negative thoughts. Temporary solutions to temporary problems that made the bigger picture even worse.
Let me say that under Ole we are the closest to the SAF era we have ever been since he retired. People often seem to be expressing the opinion that "Quality players are bailing Ole out". Let me say something to that - quality players are the thing that makes a great team what it is. Even the GREATEST COACH EVER, even a master tactician, a magician if you want, can do so much with Stoke City for example or Fulham or any mid to lower table team. This is football and no matter what you do, no matter how you set up your team, the difference makers are always the talented, quality players. Yes, you may win the odd game as the underdog against a great team. You may even scrape a cup here and there. But you'll never be anything more than some ordinary team that managed to overachieve. Every great team ever is defined by quality players. That includes us. Ever since we became a factor again in early 90's, we always had amazing world class players dragging us forward.
Ole is still learning, yes. But we've been only getting better since he is in charge. He also happens to have world class abilities - his man management and his public attitude. And these are abilities that you can't underestimate or ignore, because they are the foundation of success. No team is going to find a lot of success under a complete prick like Van Gaal or a frowny excuse maker like Jose, who also happens to love throwing his own players under the bus. Both VG and Jose failed miserably in managing the squad attitude, the atmosphere around the club and the overall feeling of our play. Let me give a little example - if Memphis Depay was playing under Ole, he would have been massively successful and I'm certain about it. He is clearly a player that you need to show trust in, so he can deliver. Jose froze him out and LVG never really gave him a proper chance. Dropping players is sometimes the correct call, but sometimes it's fecking stupid and shows lack of vision or understanding from the manager.
In think Ole is managing the squad perfectly. We lose very rarely and I can only remember 2-3 odd games where we were actually outclassed. The problem is that we DRAW way too much, that was the case last season, seems to be happening this season as well. I think the reason is that most of our squad is made of players who just don't know how to win and get confused when they are in position to achieve something great. There is a reason our performances are better since the introduction of Bruno and now Cavani. Those guys are WINNERS. They have the "take everything or nothing" mentality and they manage to push us over the line when the games are tight.
On the other hand we have Martial, who Ole is managing perfectly, but he is just locked in his own head and refuses to take chance after chance. Honestly maybe we should let Martial go at this point, just can't see the guy ever being the great United striker, leading us to glory. The ability is there, the mentality is not and I don't think that's repairable by any manager. We have Greenwood, who has all the talent in the world, but is still young (the problem with him is that he managed to score a lot of the same goal - run in the box, cut back to your other foot and shoot in the far corner. He tries to do that every game and often fecks up great attacks). We also have Rashford who has Ronaldo and Bebé living in him, and you never know which one you are getting (sometimes you get glimpses of both). I believe that getting Sancho in the summer is going to make Rashford look world class next season - when he understands that he is not undroppable, he is going to double his efforts I reckon.
The good news is that we have young players, getting in their prime, that are developing winners mentality - Scot, Luke.
Overall I think winning the FA cup and finishing in top 4 would be a massive success this season. Not sure about the Europa and if we should put a lot of effort in challenging that. But anyway - winning one of those cups is going to be essential. These players need to win something to get that extra boost of confidence and mentality.
There is no doubt in my mind that if we manage to grab a cup (or two) this season, fortified with a strong top 4 finish, get in class CB, winger and striker early summer, we are winning the league next season. If Pogba goes in the summer we'll need to replace him properly too.
Also there is no doubt in my mind that Ole is the long term solution and sacking him would be a huge mistake, leading us again into the downward spiral of getting temporary solutions and getting rid of them. We are not fecking chelsea, are we?
What made Manchester United (and also I should mention Arsenal) unique and great through all these years, was the foundation of the club. And I strongly believe Ole can do that and he has been bringing the proper Manchester United spirit and culture back ever since his day one.
What younger fans do not understand and some older fans seem to have forgotten is that the culture and the idealism of a football club is what makes you support it. Not the temporary success.
Personally I am sure that OGS is that man getting us there and making us the great Manchester United again. And I bloody hope I'm right. My heart and my common sense say so anyway.
And even if for some reason we get someone else, he better be a long term solution and a manager who is going to be here for many, many years.
I won't be able to recognize a club, called Manchester United, throwing managers and players away like paper towels. Our glory is in something else. The greatest ever Sir Alex had it. And I believe his player Ole Gunnar Solskjær has it.
I was extremely unhappy in the years since SAF retired, because we started to look like any other ordinary "big team", or at least "rich team". Getting tons of players every summer, changing managers every one or two years, not having any perspective for the future... Everything that happened to Moyes was his own doing (saying "I don't know what to do to win a game at this point" was the last nail). We made a mistake with him, happens.. But after him? Getting managers who are clearly the temporary solution (LVG and Jose were not getting any younger, were they?). Both of them started transforming the team into something that it never was. LVG and his pointless possession football was ridiculous, and Jose is just so damn negative in everything he does. The squad was left without balance or purpose whatsoever. Negative football, negative thoughts. Temporary solutions to temporary problems that made the bigger picture even worse.
Let me say that under Ole we are the closest to the SAF era we have ever been since he retired. People often seem to be expressing the opinion that "Quality players are bailing Ole out". Let me say something to that - quality players are the thing that makes a great team what it is. Even the GREATEST COACH EVER, even a master tactician, a magician if you want, can do so much with Stoke City for example or Fulham or any mid to lower table team. This is football and no matter what you do, no matter how you set up your team, the difference makers are always the talented, quality players. Yes, you may win the odd game as the underdog against a great team. You may even scrape a cup here and there. But you'll never be anything more than some ordinary team that managed to overachieve. Every great team ever is defined by quality players. That includes us. Ever since we became a factor again in early 90's, we always had amazing world class players dragging us forward.
Ole is still learning, yes. But we've been only getting better since he is in charge. He also happens to have world class abilities - his man management and his public attitude. And these are abilities that you can't underestimate or ignore, because they are the foundation of success. No team is going to find a lot of success under a complete prick like Van Gaal or a frowny excuse maker like Jose, who also happens to love throwing his own players under the bus. Both VG and Jose failed miserably in managing the squad attitude, the atmosphere around the club and the overall feeling of our play. Let me give a little example - if Memphis Depay was playing under Ole, he would have been massively successful and I'm certain about it. He is clearly a player that you need to show trust in, so he can deliver. Jose froze him out and LVG never really gave him a proper chance. Dropping players is sometimes the correct call, but sometimes it's fecking stupid and shows lack of vision or understanding from the manager.
In think Ole is managing the squad perfectly. We lose very rarely and I can only remember 2-3 odd games where we were actually outclassed. The problem is that we DRAW way too much, that was the case last season, seems to be happening this season as well. I think the reason is that most of our squad is made of players who just don't know how to win and get confused when they are in position to achieve something great. There is a reason our performances are better since the introduction of Bruno and now Cavani. Those guys are WINNERS. They have the "take everything or nothing" mentality and they manage to push us over the line when the games are tight.
On the other hand we have Martial, who Ole is managing perfectly, but he is just locked in his own head and refuses to take chance after chance. Honestly maybe we should let Martial go at this point, just can't see the guy ever being the great United striker, leading us to glory. The ability is there, the mentality is not and I don't think that's repairable by any manager. We have Greenwood, who has all the talent in the world, but is still young (the problem with him is that he managed to score a lot of the same goal - run in the box, cut back to your other foot and shoot in the far corner. He tries to do that every game and often fecks up great attacks). We also have Rashford who has Ronaldo and Bebé living in him, and you never know which one you are getting (sometimes you get glimpses of both). I believe that getting Sancho in the summer is going to make Rashford look world class next season - when he understands that he is not undroppable, he is going to double his efforts I reckon.
The good news is that we have young players, getting in their prime, that are developing winners mentality - Scot, Luke.
Overall I think winning the FA cup and finishing in top 4 would be a massive success this season. Not sure about the Europa and if we should put a lot of effort in challenging that. But anyway - winning one of those cups is going to be essential. These players need to win something to get that extra boost of confidence and mentality.
There is no doubt in my mind that if we manage to grab a cup (or two) this season, fortified with a strong top 4 finish, get in class CB, winger and striker early summer, we are winning the league next season. If Pogba goes in the summer we'll need to replace him properly too.
Also there is no doubt in my mind that Ole is the long term solution and sacking him would be a huge mistake, leading us again into the downward spiral of getting temporary solutions and getting rid of them. We are not fecking chelsea, are we?
What made Manchester United (and also I should mention Arsenal) unique and great through all these years, was the foundation of the club. And I strongly believe Ole can do that and he has been bringing the proper Manchester United spirit and culture back ever since his day one.
What younger fans do not understand and some older fans seem to have forgotten is that the culture and the idealism of a football club is what makes you support it. Not the temporary success.
Personally I am sure that OGS is that man getting us there and making us the great Manchester United again. And I bloody hope I'm right. My heart and my common sense say so anyway.
And even if for some reason we get someone else, he better be a long term solution and a manager who is going to be here for many, many years.
I won't be able to recognize a club, called Manchester United, throwing managers and players away like paper towels. Our glory is in something else. The greatest ever Sir Alex had it. And I believe his player Ole Gunnar Solskjær has it.
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His in-game management has never been the best, he either makes the wrong subs or doesn't make any at all. Especially when we're ahead by a small margin, you get the sense he gets very wary of making subs as he's not sure of who take off especially since his favorites are untouchable most of the time. At 3-2 last night for example, I lost count of the times Cavani and Rashford gave the ball away when we needed desperately to hold onto the ball and mount serious attacks to settle the tie. The game was screaming for someone in the middle to hold the ball well and be a outlet to build off attacks. Anthony should have been on early for Cavani so we don't constantly give the ball back to Everton in the center for them to keep prodding away at our shape. I would also have brought on VDB for Rashy around the 70th minute to increase our numbers in midfield and improve our control and use of the ball.
All those criticising Ole, please take a look at our league finishes for the last 7 years.
We have not gone from prime 2008 United to Ole's United. FFS. Get some perspective and be patient.
We have not gone from prime 2008 United to Ole's United. FFS. Get some perspective and be patient.
The fact we have one of the worst defences this season is on Ole and his coaches. What on earth do they do for training, run around a bit, lift a few weights. As someone said why isn't Maguire the one being used to win the ball in the air instead he is the one waiting for the knockdown against fast forwards. Our goalkeeper is weak and has been for ages. He now has to drop him and start trying to bed in Dean Henderson. They have absolutely no idea how to play an offside trap, that is down to relentless coaching. He has got the attacking just about spot on, but he has to take some blame for the ineptitude of the defending. Also bring Matic on, not Axel.
The other half is the defence, so he needs to realise that and put it right and get the best CB out there who is not a past it Real player looking for a big payday. Must admit I wish we had got Dias.
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