Hard Decisions need to be made

[Lennon7]

Maguire definitely isn’t good enough, and it’d bizarre such an average weak minded player is our captain too.

DeGea is still a top keeper, and is having a good season. He’s not the source of our problems but we could certainly look at an upgrade - perhaps play Henderson way more.

Rashford is class. He’s just very wasteful. That will disappear one day.

We got complacent yesterday, pulled it back together and then fecked it on yet another corner/free kick. Annoying as feck.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Sorry, what attitude? I feel like you've mentioned his suppose attitude before, I don't see many people talking about it. His effort, and the way he carries himself on the pitch doesn't bother me in the slightest. He's had some poor performances this season where he's not looked quite right, but he's never struck me as a player with a bad attitude.

Ok, maybe it is me then. I will not push that as some holly truth. Things that i see this season is that he doesn't press much like Cavani or Bruno do for example and that he is selfish too much. Not selfish in front of goal but selfish in a way that he plays solo too much. But ok, it is maybe me....
I am maybe too critical because he is one of 3 our best players so i demand more

 

[Judas]

I think he's been greedy, but I put that down to poor decision making that I really hope he'll improve at in time.

 

[Ali Dia]

Maguire definitely isn’t good enough, and it’d bizarre such an average weak minded player is our captain too.

DeGea is still a top keeper, and is having a good season. He’s not the source of our problems but we could certainly look at an upgrade - perhaps play Henderson way more.

Rashford is class. He’s just very wasteful. That will disappear one day.

We got complacent yesterday, pulled it back together and then fecked it on yet another corner/free kick. Annoying as feck.

the problem here is the numbers don’t back this up at all and neither does the eye test. We can still upgrade on the highest earning keeper in the world? Surely there’s something wrong here. We need to upgrade on whoever is making these contract decisions most of all.

 

[tjb]

Do people really remember 18/19 and how poor our defence were prior to Maguire coming in . Against any decent opposition, we legitimately looked like we would be opened up, which is why we got so defensive in those games initially. Maguire came in and his presence was felt immediately. There was a time our defence was scared of moving the ball at all, where, Blind, Jones, Rojo and Bailly were scared every time they were attacked and Smalling was dithering on the ball forcing our defensive line backwards. Maguire is the reason we look like a good defence most of the time. The mistakes we have made have usually been a result of him covering for gaps and lapses his defensive partners rather than simply poor decision making, yet people can't seem to see the difference. If he gets injured, people will really see what we really are.

 

[tjb]

The same Lindelof who is carrying on ongoing back injury and was pretty dire v Everton. Next...

With Lindelof leading our backline, our defence conceded 50 goals....with no 6-1's either....just consistent concessions.

 

[Sandikan]

Just don't agree to be honest.

Our team have scored enough. Cavani will still be with us next season.

Maguire is good enough but is exposed by a lack of a top GK, CB or CDM around him.

Both Rashford and Martial aren't even in their prime. We also have Greenwood who will be looked to get that CF spot. Diallo will add a better balance at RW.

The players you should have listed imo are:
DDG
LINDELOF
FRED

Martial is 25 now. A lot of strikers are at their prime at that age, why do we think Martial's not peaked out?

Rashy is a couple of years younger, but he will certainly improve, stuff like awareness and picking the right option.

 

[Sandikan]

DDG- 100% agreed. Same mistakes for a couple of seasons now. Genuinely sick of him.

Maguire- Can be given time I think. Just needs a consistent CB next to him who is very good.

Rashford- Incredibly frustrating. Selfish (on the pitch before anyone attacks me), inconsistent, needs 6 chances to score. We're not winning the league if he's starting every single game for us.

Martial- Needs to be upgraded. Old man Cavani has shown him up this season in 6 months already.

Needs someone fast there. Someone like Bailly, but someone who can play more than 3 games back to back without an injury.

 

[Fitchett]

Drop De Gea now and give Henderson a run for the remainder of the season, to see how he shapes up. Look how much better Sheffield United were last season when he was between the sticks for them. It will also afford the opportunity to see how the centre backs perform, with a braver and more commanding keeper behind them. Make a definite decision in the summer about our keepers.

Use Martial purely as back up and then sell him in the summer. Keep Cavani as first choice centre forward, before going all out to sign Haaland in 2022 summer. Give Amad a few cameo right wing outings, to see if we need to buy Sancho or not.

 

[Siorac]

Jan Oblak also says ' I'm winning titles and I dont need to move'.

The last trophy he won was the Europa League in 2018.

 

[MattyLT]

Whether Henderson is his replacement is a different discussion

He should play week in week out for a while going forward. Then we'll know more before the summer transfer window.

Rashford - how many chances does he need to score? He isnt as good as some blinkered fans think. We need an upgrade in his position or at least a viable 2nd player to keep Rashford sharp and make him improve/give him an opportunity to rest.

Martial - Needs to be sold for an upgrade. He doesnt have many supporters left.

With Rashford as the preferred option, and Martial as a backup, the LW is well covered. No need to upgrade on either. Better then to focus on more/better options at CF and RW so that none of these two need to play there.

Harry Maguire - If this team is to challenge for titles at the top table we need an upgrade on him. He is simply bang average and his mistakes are far too frequent. Not the rock we can build a foundation on. I dont see him being sold but we need a better CB to play alongside him and cover his frequent errors.

"Frequent errors" and "bang average" is a bit hyperbolic. But yes, the partnership isn't great, and the liability at GK might have something to do with the nervy defence as well.

So that leaves: Definitely one CB needed, and maybe a GK needed (on top of a DM and a RW, which have been issues for a while).

 

[bsCallout]

Martial is 25 now. A lot of strikers are at their prime at that age, why do we think Martial's not peaked out?

Rashy is a couple of years younger, but he will certainly improve, stuff like awareness and picking the right option.

What strikers are at their prime at 25?

And he hasn't peaked because his all round game has been improving.

 

[Sandikan]

What strikers are at their prime at 25?

And he hasn't peaked because his all round game has been improving.

I think it's one of those myths that players peak at 28-30.
I think you'll find a lot peak in the 24-27 range. Maybe later for centre backs/keeper, but even keeper as we're seeing with De Gea that's not always the case by any means.

 

[Fitchett]

Don't underestimate the effect a shaky goalkeeper can have on the defenders in front of him. Obviously injuries messed up Wes Brown's United career, but his best seasons were early on, with Schmeichel, and then winning the Champions League again in 2008, with Van der Sar. He regressed when he had the erratic Barthez behind him. Again, granted Ferdinand and Vidic were getting older, but they were much more effective in front of Van der Sar than De Gea.

Between 2013 & 2018, De Gea was the best shot stopper I have ever seen, but not once have the many centre back pairings in front of him, been able to work effectively with him as the central defensive triangle. The fact he stays rooted to his line means Maguire has to drop deeper to plug the gap, thereby playing opponents onside. Last night's late equaliser was a perfect illustration.

 

[Cassidy]

I think the point is, he would probably be on twenty five goals if he was more consistent with his finishing.

And I think my point was everyone misses chances and his goal record is as good as anyone playing his position. Out of our front 4 hes the least of the issues

 

[Smores]

This forum has a thing for criticising De Gea. It's a very very rare thing to get a keeper who doesn't make the odd mistake. He's no more an issue than Ole yet we have to romanticise supporting him whilst criticising key players.

And as i type Alison just makes multiple howlers.

 

[hobbers]

The problem is we have a keeper and two centrebacks who are all negative, sit ridiculously deep (or rooted to the goal line in De Gea's case), are perpetually scared, never vocal and purely reactive.

We'll never get close to titles if all 3 keep getting on the pitch together.

 

[Falcow]

League is over really at this point. May as well gove Henderson an extended run and see how he does. Perfect opportunity with the FA cup Tuesday night.

 

[bsCallout]

I think it's one of those myths that players peak at 28-30.
I think you'll find a lot peak in the 24-27 range. Maybe later for centre backs/keeper, but even keeper as we're seeing with De Gea that's not always the case by any means.

Ok. Like who?

 

[Sandikan]

Ok. Like who?

For us, Van Nistelrooy, Giggs, Beckham, Cole, Solskjaer.
Henry, Shearer

 

[bsCallout]

For us, Van Nistelrooy, Giggs, Beckham, Cole, Solskjaer.
Henry, Shearer

Giggs, Becks, not strikers, neither scored many. Hard to say that Giggs peaked then anyway.

RVN as prolific at RM. If I'm not mistaken Cole was most prolific at 27/28. Ole's best season I think is when he was 29. Henry best years were his final few at Arsenal, 25-27 I think. I'll give you Shearer but he moved club at what 26? So kind of hard to judge.

Unlike all those players, Martial hasn't had a steady career either. This season you can tell he is trying to learn the CF role, he has improved his play with his back to goal, trying to get his head on more and also trying to poach more. Then, there is also the fact, Martial is not in that bracket.

We could also look at strikers like Vardy, Cavani, Ibra etc. the age they are playing and at such a high level.

To me with front line of Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Diallo, Cavani, Bruno means we are fine. If we could get one of the few TOP strikers then by all means.

 

[Sandikan]

Giggs, Becks, not strikers, neither scored many. Hard to say that Giggs peaked then anyway.

RVN as prolific at RM. If I'm not mistaken Cole was most prolific at 27/28. Ole's best season I think is when he was 29. Henry best years were his final few at Arsenal, 25-27 I think. I'll give you Shearer but he moved club at what 26? So kind of hard to judge.

Unlike all those players, Martial hasn't had a steady career either. This season you can tell he is trying to learn the CF role, he has improved his play with his back to goal, trying to get his head on more and also trying to poach more. Then, there is also the fact, Martial is not in that bracket.

We could also look at strikers like Vardy, Cavani, Ibra etc. the age they are playing and at such a high level.

To me with front line of Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Diallo, Cavani, Bruno means we are fine. If we could get one of the few TOP strikers then by all means.

It's probably opinion about peaks. Cole was at his most dangerous at Newcastle, scored way more goals then he ever did for us in a season. But they were built for him.

I'd love to think Martial has better to come, but i have a nag last year was as good as it gets, which was decent, but this season has been a bust so far. Cavani has shown us what we could have as an out and out striker.

Vardy is a real outlier, in the same way Rooney is the other way round.
Cavani and Ibra probably peaked mid 20s, but are able to sustain a good level late on.

 

[bsCallout]

It's probably opinion about peaks. Cole was at his most dangerous at Newcastle, scored way more goals then he ever did for us in a season. But they were built for him.

I'd love to think Martial has better to come, but i have a nag last year was as good as it gets, which was decent, but this season has been a bust so far. Cavani has shown us what we could have as an out and out striker.

Vardy is a real outlier, in the same way Rooney is the other way round.
Cavani and Ibra probably peaked mid 20s, but are able to sustain a good level late on.

Cavani definitely peaked late 20's. Ibra was DEFINITELY better in his late 20's & his 30's.

Martial definitely has more to come, a lot more, he seems to understand the game better now. The problem with Martial and even Cavani to be frank, you can't rely on them like the other names we've mentioned.

 

[Sandikan]

Cavani definitely peaked late 20's. Ibra was DEFINITELY better in his late 20's & his 30's.

Martial definitely has more to come, a lot more, he seems to understand the game better now. The problem with Martial and even Cavani to be frank, you can't rely on them like the other names we've mentioned.

If we could fuse the two into one we'd have a superb striker.

But then you could say similar with fusing other pairs into one!

 

[bsCallout]

If we could fuse the two into one we'd have a superb striker.

But then you could say similar with fusing other pairs into one!

The hope is that Martial learns Cavani's best attributes and it all clicks together nicely next season.

 

[Lee565]

Do we even need a proper striker, city get away with, same could even be said for liverpool with firmino, I think we could make do with cavani and when he doesn't play use Fernandes in the role as a false 9

 

[city-puma]

We have unintentionally put ourselves into a run of mediocre results. We are now on the edge to be excluded from the title challenge. If this run continue, we could struggle to finish top four. The bold decision needs to be made. Starting with DDG to go back to the basics, shutting down conceding the soft goals.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

So you buy a better defender to babysit your captain?

Maguire being ‘the best’ with have doesn’t make him the best we could have.

He’s quite obviously not a bad defender but his main weakness, his pace/mobility are susceptible to targeting which has been the case since Project Restart; go back to the Spurs away game when he showed the turning circle of a ship at anchor.

Look at the first Everton goal yesterday, DDG is shocking but a quicker CB doesn’t get turned by Calvert-Lewin in the first place.

Again, I agree he’s the best of what we have but I said when he signed for all his ‘ball playing’ [imo vastly overrated] his pace will always be an issue.

If I had a nickel for every time Maguire got beat for pace in the past 2 seasons I'd have about $.25. And yesterday wasn't one of those times. Calevert Lewin is forced wide and has to cross (that is not beating your defender) and De Gea makes a meal of it. His pace (or lack there of) is his biggest weakness but he knows that and rarely gets caught out. But that doesn't stop people from scapegoating him. It's as if they expect us to go 90 minutes every game without giving up a single chance to the other team. It doesn't matter how good your defense is. Every team gives up chances. And sometimes you need your keeper to bail you out. And just like the Tottenham game you mentioned from last year, and 2/3 goals yesterday, De Gea wasn't there to help. The real problem isn't our defense. It's our keeper. Put a commanding keeper in goal who is brilliant at the basics and our goals against will be cut in half...

 

[pocco]

Is Rashford as good/ better than Nani? I genuinely don't think so, and Nani was a frustrating player with his inconsistency at times.

 

[dpansheth]

Jan Oblak says Hi.

Isnt Henderson an answer?

 

[bsCallout]

Is Rashford as good/ better than Nani? I genuinely don't think so, and Nani was a frustrating player with his inconsistency at times.

Nani 21yo - 29yo (approx) - Apps 230, G 41, A 73
Rashford 18yo - 23yo (approx) - Apps 165, G 52, A 33

Considering Rashford age and the fact he hasn't played in a team anywhere near as good as what Nani did, I would say Rashford is already better and will be much better.

 

[AKDevil]

Its time to make some hard decisions isnt it.

DDG is reaching the end of the road. A fantastic keeper but his decline is all to evident and his performances are costing dearly. It might be time for him to be moved on in the summer time.
Whether Henderson is his replacement is a different discussion but DDG isnt doing it anymore.

Harry Maguire - If this team is to challenge for titles at the top table we need an upgrade on him. He is simply bang average and his mistakes are far too frequent. Not the rock we can build a foundation on. I dont see him being sold but we need a better CB to play alongside him and cover his frequent errors.

Rashford - how many chances does he need to score? He isnt as good as some blinkered fans think. We need an upgrade in his position or at least a viable 2nd player to keep Rashford sharp and make him improve/give him an opportunity to rest.

Martial - Needs to be sold for an upgrade. He doesnt have many supporters left.

If you look at those 4 names you can see a real issue, they are main first 11 players really, and quite alot of experience, but they are just not good enough. Ole has done a good job for the most part in clearing out the deadwood but he's now looking at uncomfortable decision time.

To challenge for a league and CL we need to get better players in key positions and that means hard decisions for the manger.

Now I’ve noticed how careless and sloppy Rashford is on the ball I can’t stop seeing it. It’s so costly. If a new attacker arrives in the summer he’ll be the next one I expect to be squeezed out. As for England, starts on the bench.

 

[Mindhunter]

This forum has a thing for criticising De Gea. It's a very very rare thing to get a keeper who doesn't make the odd mistake. He's no more an issue than Ole yet we have to romanticise supporting him whilst criticising key players.

And as i type Alison just makes multiple howlers.

It's not just about the howlers. Opponents know his confidence is shot and what his shortcomings are and so they will continue to test them. He needs a long break away from the starting eleven in my opinion to sort out how we wants the rest of his career to pan out.

Part of the problem is that his stock isn't really high and he can forget about playing for Real Madrid. He earns a massive wage here and we haven't won a meaningful trophy in ages and so there is nothing left for him to play for. I am sure motivating himself to learn new skills and push himself harder at this point is difficult.

 

[Renegade]

Nani 21yo - 29yo (approx) - Apps 230, G 41, A 73
Rashford 18yo - 23yo (approx) - Apps 165, G 52, A 33

Considering Rashford age and the fact he hasn't played in a team anywhere near as good as what Nani did, I would say Rashford is already better and will be much better.

In fairness Nani was a winger in a 442. Not sure we’d see the same level of Rashford performances in that position.

 

[Dve]

Its time to make some hard decisions isnt it.

DDG is reaching the end of the road. A fantastic keeper but his decline is all to evident and his performances are costing dearly. It might be time for him to be moved on in the summer time.
Whether Henderson is his replacement is a different discussion but DDG isnt doing it anymore.

Harry Maguire - If this team is to challenge for titles at the top table we need an upgrade on him. He is simply bang average and his mistakes are far too frequent. Not the rock we can build a foundation on. I dont see him being sold but we need a better CB to play alongside him and cover his frequent errors.

Rashford - how many chances does he need to score? He isnt as good as some blinkered fans think. We need an upgrade in his position or at least a viable 2nd player to keep Rashford sharp and make him improve/give him an opportunity to rest.

Martial - Needs to be sold for an upgrade. He doesnt have many supporters left.

If you look at those 4 names you can see a real issue, they are main first 11 players really, and quite alot of experience, but they are just not good enough. Ole has done a good job for the most part in clearing out the deadwood but he's now looking at uncomfortable decision time.

To challenge for a league and CL we need to get better players in key positions and that means hard decisions for the manger.

Maguire does not make many mistakes. But he gets blamed a lot for things that is not his fault.

And Rashford has 17 goals and 6 assists so far this season, and if he keeps his numbers up, he´ll get close to 30 goals. That´s pretty good for a left wing, even if he misses some chances.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

The only thing I'm disappointed with from Rashford is his lack of pressing. Seeing Cavani and Bruno pressing like madmen, the former being 34, shows that he's simply not pulling his weight.

Other than that, I think a lot of the criticism he receives is very over the top

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Panic thread. We are doing fine. Ddg might need replacing after costing us double digit PTS in the last couple of years but other than that we are on a good trajectory

 

[Dve]

That's a good one

That´s just ridiculous. If you seek through years of games, you can make a video like this for every defender in the world.

 

[RuudTom83]

The squad is getting smaller with Ole trimming done if the deadwood. So there is plenty of room for a new CB.

Keep all the players in the OP + CB and I’d be more than satisfied. It’s not fantasy football!

 

[We need an rvn]

Just don't agree to be honest.

Our team have scored enough. Cavani will still be with us next season.

Maguire is good enough but is exposed by a lack of a top GK, CB or CDM around him.

Both Rashford and Martial aren't even in their prime. We also have Greenwood who will be looked to get that CF spot. Diallo will add a better balance at RW.

The players you should have listed imo are:
DDG
LINDELOF
FRED

DDG agreed with. But are we going to let a £350k p/w keeper sit on the bench for the next x years? It has the whole Ozil smell all over it and look how silly Arsenal have come looking out of it. We've shot ourselves in the foot given him that ridiculous contract.

Also with your Maguire point. He just needs a partner who makes up for his weaknesses but they balance each other out.

Martial has been here for what, 5-6 years and looks no different from when he came here and no way he'll turn into a world class no. 9 now. He needs to go or be a sub...but he is a confidence player and doesn't get confidence sitting on the bench. I honestly think he'll suit a team like Roma. Nearly fighting for the top but less pressure as they aren't really going to make it every year, but he'll lead the line and get the goals.