I've not seen much of Delaney and the current Dortmund team is poor, but the other 3 aren't, although Fabinho is a pretty good passer from deep and Liverpool don't need it as much as they have the two best attacking fullbacks in Europe, and even then Klopp got Thiag in to add some guile to their midfield.
Declan Rice
- Thread starter roonster09
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Have you seen the number of goals we have scored from open play that isn't counter attack?
We don't rely on counter, we play some games on the counter it suits that game. Liverpool / City play alot on the counter too, from winning the ball and counter attacking teams.
This is because its alot easier to create chances in transition than breaking teams down.
One thing that has stood out to me: Ole has been very flexible with his tactical and often than not, he is spot on with his tactical choices against specific opponents. It is the same thing once it comes to player selections. He somehow shoehorned Pogba to the RW and made it to work when needed. McTominay with a run of games can probably develop into Matic's replacement. What McT is lacking at the moment and you can see is the calmness that you see with Matic or Carrick. The game is still a bit too fast for McTominay. Once he gets a string of games putting together - he would develop the position instinct - things would slow down and he will be able to more than what he is currently able to do.
(Just realized somehow I'm still a newbie and only get 3 daily posts
)I can guarantee you Delaney is not, and it didn’t let Dortmund to reliant on counter attacking football. Not sure why having two best attacking fullbacks are relevant to cover the non deep lying playmaker in midfield.
I heard from a poster here that DLP is a bit of a dying trait- arguably no ones been successful as except Bayern Munich with one.
Compare the ones you mentioned to Casemiro, Fernandinho, Fabinho, Busquets, Marquinhos, Ndidi, Hojberg, Kante etc
Nearly every top team has a ball winning midfielder.
If we want a creator, we dont need that one as our one and only CDM in my opinion- we could for example buy a ball winning midfielder to replace Matic and then replace Pogba with a creative force.
It's more like for like in my opinion.
Some will say that Fred is a BWM but to me he looks like a player that follows and presses a player with energy rather than a player that can dominate an area of the field by their defensive stability.
I'm not saying Declan Rice is the one and only; however I would understand if Ole ends up buying him just as much as I would if he doesnt. Theres benefits to him just as much as there might be losses - however us needing a deep lying playmaker instead of a ball winning midfielder is not something I agree with. We could use both. Scholes and Fred doesnt seem as balanced as Scholes and Rice.
Theres a reason we stick Matic when Pogba plays deep and we need to replace the 32 year old Matic. Pogba can be replaced by a different player.
I've seen us struggle to break teams down who sit deep as we don't move the ball well from deeper areas unless Pogba is playing centrally. We can't dictate the tempo most of the time so we struggle to move the opposition out of their defensive set up as we are either slow in moving the ball or try ridiculous Hollywood passes.
Dortmund play a lot of counter attacking football, and the reason the fullbacks at Liverpool matter are because they allow Liverpool to keep their front 3 close together and have passing threats coming in from fullbacks, they aren't just run and cross merchants so Liverpool don't need to play through midfield as much, every other top team has one player in the midfield 2 who's a good passer, the only one we have is leaving this summer.
Like I said I don't care about a DLP specifically, it's simply that this board will not be able to get a playmaking #8 and Rice in the one summer, leaving us with either Rice/Fred or Rice/McTominay partnerships, neither of which will make us any better than we currently are.
I think you only saying that to suit your argument there especially from someone who barely even watched enough Dortmund games when they had Witsel and Delaney as their main regular double pivot (you even admitted yourself you haven’t seen much of Delaney). If anything people praised Dortmund football style. Even Pochettino didn’t have DLP at spurs and people considered his as attacking.
I really can't be bothered to get into a tit for tat with you, Spurs won feck all for starters and bar Liverpool the top sides all have one ball player in midfield, Dortmund aren't a top side, playing counter attack is fine for them as teams come at them. Do you really think a Rice/Fred or Rice/McTominay midfield will take us anywhere?
Your argument is weak and you know that.
The answer is yes because Chelsea won the league with Matic & Kante, Makelele & Essien, Liverpool won trophies with no attacking mid like Bruno or KDB quality but instead they relied on Henderson & Fabinho. And let’s not forget Donny into the mix.
My argument isn't weak, i know you just like to make nonsensical arguments on the regular. My argument is factual, like your Chelsea list even proves my point, outside of Liverpool which I've already explained, and Ole has forgotten about Van de Beek so I see him as a player who gets a few minutes here and there and as Bruno's back-up, nothing more.
I also told I liked some games I saw. He scores in two of those. He's very good. Like Matic with legs.
CB playing in midfield tonight. Definitely not what we need.
So far I'm seeing exactly what I expected. He's good at what he does, maybe he'd step up even more at a big club, or maybe he'd be a Schneiderlin. Either way, he won't be worth the ridiculous fee for what he'd add.
What is the latest quote to buy him now? 80,90??? Not worth more than 50 based on tonight’s performance
If ever you needed a demonstration why we shouldn't be signing him.
You’d have to be off your bloody rocker to think this fella is a Manchester United midfielder.
I’m sure he’ll make a half decent centre half down the line, but not here.
I’m sure he’ll make a half decent centre half down the line, but not here.
He was shite tonight. So was everyone on the pitch. Not many conclusions to be drawn.
More of what I already thought of him, bang average.
I mean he genuinely looked a level below McTominay, feck knows what people see in him.
I would be livid if we spend anything near what they have been asking for him. Not worth a half that supposed price.
I mean he genuinely looked a level below McTominay, feck knows what people see in him.
I would be livid if we spend anything near what they have been asking for him. Not worth a half that supposed price.
Really? The big conclusion to be drawn is that he isn’t remotely good enough to be a midfielder for a club like United. I think that’s obvious.
I agree - but if you're basing that solely off tonight, then you're a gowl. Hence, not many conclusions to be drawn from this one single shit night of crap football.
Not solely from tonight, no. But he didn’t do anything to change my mind; simply confirmed my thinking.
I thought he grew into the game but I'm still not convinced he could take us, or any of the top 4, up the required level.
He'll likely be a decent rotation option rather than a nailed on first teamer. But we need nailed on first teamers.
He'll likely be a decent rotation option rather than a nailed on first teamer. But we need nailed on first teamers.
? What's their recent run, 7 wins in 9 or something ridiculous. He's their best player and they absolutely love him. He's easily good enough for United, the only questions are is he better than the alternatives and will he be available at an acceptable price.
Yes.
Hard to perform well with Moyes set up today.
Is he shite. He wouldn’t play in midfield for City, or Bayern, or Madrid, so I can’t for the life of me understand why we’d choose to bring him in here.
I mean, take Matic tonight. He is on the wrong side of the hill but he’s on another planet to Rice with the ball at his feet. Running about and getting stuck in doesn’t cut it. Not if we aspire to get back to the top. See Fred, because the same thing applies to him.
Didn’t even know he was playing
Don’t think he’s good enough for us. Never seems to have complete control of the ball. I mean the difference in technical ability between him and Matic was glaring tonight, and Matic had a pretty average game.
We can and should be looking for much better than him.
We can and should be looking for much better than him.
Jesus... I'm sure you all saw something in Carrick when we thrashed West ham 6-0 in the cup in 2003
Wow, some conviction there after this evening.
If he's "easily good enough" to play for United, a player City would wet themselves at, we're truly fecked.
I finally noticed him in the 2nd half when the camera zoomed in-on the West Ham players. Was genuinely surprised he was playing.
Carrick could pass a ball.
feck off with this nonsense, Carrick was a known wonderkid that Fergie name dropped multiple times when he was just coming through. He was an incredible passer with both feet, especially between the lines.
Basically feck all like this guy.
OK, let me level, he's good enough, by which I mean not as an automatic starter, but he'd be a valuable part of the squad. That's what I think anyway. I do expect him to be signed by someone else, of similar level to ourselves. Also, note, City tend to buy better players than us.
Scott has bigger potential than this guy. I will pass!
Exactly, so time we corrected that and stopped bringing in the likes of Declan fecking Rice and cementing ourselves firmly in their shadow.
Gareth Barry level IMO. That’s not even a insult. He’ll be a solid premier league player but no way is he top 4 standard.
I don’t understand why people on here are so obsessed with signing this guy?
Barry also offered significantly more than this lad. Rice is basically what Barry was when he was over the age of 30.
What ever happened to Nigel Reo-Coker?
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