We’re currently on track for 73 points. The only title race we’d be in with that points total over the past 9 years would be the freak Leicester season. And even then it wouldn’t be close.We'd be top of a pretty exciting title race if City hadn't pretty much destroyed the prospect of competition in England. Ruining the PL most years as a sideshow to the vanity project of winning CL.
Physicists like to joke that a working, economically viable fusion reactor has been '20 years away' for over half a century now.We are probably 3 good players away
If only. With yesterday's draw we're on course for 73.We’re currently on track for 76 points.
Jury out on Dalot, (Lukaku and Zlatan) were success - hope this makes it clearer. And Matic had a good 6 months under Mou, he was terrible in 2018.You know what is the problem here? Only 2 players were complete hit and game changers. Zlatan and Bruno. And 4,5 were complete flops. About all others we can talk. You say Matic flop under Jose? Based on what? Mikhi was key player in winning us EL (with which we entered in CL again). Pogba flop? Jury out on Lukaku? But Maguire is success? Did he fixed our defence? For 80 mil he should.
I like Cavani and he is not a flop by all means. But success?
Spot on. Depressingly amended now.If only. With yesterday's draw we're on course for 73.
As long as these "2-3 players" are better than what we currently have or at least as good as Fernandes, we will be in a much better place.Physicists like to joke that a working, economically viable fusion reactor has been '20 years away' for over half a century now.
That's what it feels like with United. We're always 2-3 key players away. Then we sign those 2-3 players and continue being rubbish anyway.
You can't blame City for us losing against Palace, Spurs, Arsenal and Sheffield United. To say nothing of all the shitty draws along the way.
We’re currently on track for 73 points. The only title race we’d be in with that points total over the past 9 years would be the freak Leicester season. And even then it wouldn’t be close.
It’s not unusual for there to be a team capable of comfortably generating more than 73 points in the Premier League.
Edit: Thanks Siorac
No-one can offer you a guaranteed solution or tell you everything will be ok whether Ole gets sack or not.This is the unanswerable question, they all cry about Ole but no one has that garunteed solution, maybe they just like moaning about United, it’s obviously going to happen with the next manager too after 6 matches when we’re not first or just lost a game to a bottom half team.
I agree that nothing garunteed but when asking these people who want Ole out who they’d like to replace him and seeing names like Pirlo, Rogers, Howe, Tuchel must be some kind of jokeNo-one can offer you a guaranteed solution or tell you everything will be ok whether Ole gets sack or not.
The club is badly run and the manager isn’t good enough, maybe he gets way better but in all likelihood he doesn’t. It’s either stable mediocrity or a lottery we stumble on a more competent manager.
His tactics seem ideally suited to a midtable club which will have more space and come up against fewer low blocks. I believe he has grown as a manager and won't have trouble finding a new job in the PL if we do part ways next year.He might have done better than those managers but he’s not better than them. That is where the buck should stop. He couldn’t go to West Ham and do as good as a job as Moyes. He’ll never have a team playing like LVG’s Ajax or Barca. He’s just not a high level manager. It works for now due to his relationship with the club. But he wouldn’t survive anywhere else.
A large portion on here will find excuses regardless, it’ll be the players, Ed & Matt, other clubs improving, the Glazers, time, look at Klopp etc etc etc.Feel free to elaborate.
Sad but true.Needs another rebuild and another £400m before we can assess his quality as a manager.
New striker. Replacement for Cavani in a year or two.
Two centre halves
Attacking right back
Defensive midfielder
Right winger
Competition for Rashford on the left
Replacement for Martial who's fast becoming deadwood, just like Donny and James
Pogba replacement
New goalkeeper if he doesn't want to blood Henderson in.
But once he gets that, which will definitely happen within a year (two at the most) with our generous owners, we'll be able to discuss whether he's a good coach or not! We just need to hope that Bruno hasn't retired or left us by then.
Except that's not true.That's what it feels like with United. We're always 2-3 key players away. Then we sign those 2-3 players and continue being rubbish anyway.
Perhaps. We could buy Sancho, Haaland and Konaté, and still be far from a serious challenge. Now, of course we're not signing all those players, but if we're strengthening significantly in terms of playing personnel and balance of the team, we'll be better primed anyway for the next manager (should we not do a 180 appointment yet again).A large portion on here will find excuses regardless, it’ll be the players, Ed & Matt, other clubs improving, the Glazers, time, look at Klopp etc etc etc.
No way are the excuses done if he doesn’t challenge next season.
That’s how I feel too, I think there’s been clearing out, good work done with rebuilding the youth channels and also steady progress on the results. Therefore I think he deserves more time.I definitely feel this current side is the closest to a title winning team since Sir Alex and Ole deserves a lot of credit for that. Is he the man to win titles? I am unsure but he deserves until end of his current contract, he is fixing six seasons of Frankenstein squad building and incompetence.
Good pointYou have to have some sympathy regardless of your feelings. He's done a good job when you are honest about where we were when he took over. The entire squad and mood of the club was in terrible shape. The fact were disappointed to not win a league this season is signs of progress and you do feel that adding sancho and a centre back for example would be a near complete squad and one with a genuine threat of winning.
But what's going to happen is the already strongest squad and most settled one, will also spend well over 200m this summer. They'll probably sign Haaland, I wouldn't even be surprised if they signed sancho too. Its simply very difficult to catch up, and 3 titles in 4 years for city will be proof of that. Having three different title winning managers in a short time is proof of that.
You know what if that was the case i'd be very happy for him. When he got the interim job and was doing well I was happy that we raised his profile and he probably could get a decent Prem club earning some good money off it. But we are here. As an individual he is a lovely guy so I hope that is the outcome.His tactics seem ideally suited to a midtable club which will have more space and come up against fewer low blocks. I believe he has grown as a manager and won't have trouble finding a new job in the PL if we do part ways next year.
The bolded bits are untrue.Starting to become a trend, isn't it? So far, under Ole, we've been absolute trash except for a couple of months each season where we manage to play well for 10-12 games or so, salvaging just enough points that the season isn't a complete and utter write-off. But only just, and no more than that. But before and after that one string of good results, we're horrendously awful. Nevertheless, that one string of results convinces people that Ole is actually doing great and bla, bla, bla. I have no reason to believe this will change. We've seen no signs that it would. Are we going to give him a third season where we once more start off hopeless, get a dozen or so decent results around the middle, and then collapse again? Again?
If, in my personal line of work, I'm completely inept 75% of the time but occasionally manage to do well for a couple of months, I'm not keeping my job. I'll be sacked after two years at the very most. If I spend the considerable majority of my time at any given place of work doing far, far worse than even the most reasonable expectations, I'm out the door as soon as that trend becomes clear. I don't get third and fourth and fifth chances. At the end of the day, you can't get by on doing well a small portion of the time. If your mean level isn't at least decent, you're out. So far, under Ole, we've spent far, far more time being absolute rubbish than we have being good. That's not acceptable. It just isn't.
Under Ole, we've been disastrously awful 75% of the time and pretty good (but not really great) 25% of the time. That's not even slightly close to good enough. A manager whose team is completely hopeless more often than they're okay is not a good manager, and that's just the fecking reality of it. It's just the self-evident truth. Sorry, but it is. Given this club's finances and the performances that we've seen with our very own eyes that these players are capable of, this is simply unacceptable in the long term. It's just not working. A two-month run of good form each season does not change that fact. We're never going anywhere with Ole. He simply doesn't have the experience, and that's abundantly clear by now.
If we hadn't had the blind luck to sign Bruno at the high point of his career, we'd have been fumbling around at 9th place or so. Now that he has hit a spot of bad form, the entire squad has imploded and we're dropping points to teams that a lineup of this financial caliber should never even come close to struggling against. There is no excuse. We briefly looked okay because one player was having the best half-season of his life. Without that, Ole would be the laughing stock of the football world from the start of this season, as he is now fast becoming.
Can we stop with the crazy managerial appointments? Do we have to try cooky, unusual choices every fecking time? Moyes, LVG, Mourinho, Ole, all have been appointments with asterisks. Managers who had either never proven anything whatsoever or were known to be unpredictable and without recent success. When Ole inevitably gets the sack, can we please just appoint someone who has actually shown that they have what it takes within the last couple of goddamn years, instead of yet another experimental gamble? Jesus tittyfecking Christ. How many times in a row do we have to suffer through a manager whose credentials come with an undeniable "yes, but..."
Nice straw man. If you're genuinely interested in hearing opinions on "what we need", there's a thread in the transfer forum.Needs another rebuild and another £400m before we can assess his quality as a manager.
New striker. Replacement for Cavani in a year or two.
Two centre halves
Attacking right back
Defensive midfielder
Right winger
Competition for Rashford on the left
Replacement for Martial who's fast becoming deadwood, just like Donny and James
Pogba replacement
New goalkeeper if he doesn't want to blood Henderson in.
But once he gets that, which will definitely happen within a year (two at the most) with our generous owners, we'll be able to discuss whether he's a good coach or not! We just need to hope that Bruno hasn't retired or left us by then.
I said the exact same thing about his lack of ruthlessness earlier. That ship hasn't sailed imo. We never were title contenders and we're still in 2 tournaments and top 4 race. He can still make the necessary changes for the Newcastle game. I'm doubtful he will, but we can certainly hope.I've personally yo yoed between being in and out, but after tonight I'm firmly in the out camp.
No, the result hasn't got anything to do with my decision. It's Ole's inability to be ruthless.
After the Everton debacle, I expected Ole to drop De Gea and stick with Henderson. That's what SAF would've done. Dito for Martial.
Instead both got picked again, and both had crappy performances.
One of the traits of a Manchester United manager is ruthlessness. I still remember how SAF sold RVN despite him carrying us for the past 5 seasons. Same with Becks.
Ole simply doesn't have it. He reminds me of Moyes in this aspect. When the going gets tough he crawls back into his shell and sticks to his safe bets. When it works out it seems that he knows what he's doing. But when it doesn't you have debacles like tonight.
Same.As long as we finish top four, I'm ok with him staying. But by God, there needs to be monumental improvements next season and the list of endless excuses need to stop. I still feel this season will be yet another top four battle and possibly a run to a cup final. Anything more would be a pleasant surprise.
The "what we need" thread is mostly people addressing the most pressing needs in our squad. Anyone with a brain cell would understand that our stingy owners won't spend upwards of £200m net on players in consecutive summer transfer windows, but I really think that we're staring down the barrel of another rebuild with the current management failing to make the most out of the squad at their disposal.Nice straw man. If you're genuinely interested in hearing opinions on "what we need", there's a thread in the transfer forum.
Consensus there seems to be 3 players: CB, DM and a striker of some sorts. You listed 9 players.
The current transfer policy is the best it's been in the post-SAF era. I personally wouldn't mind the current structure, Ole included, overseeing another transfer window on the condition we qualify for the CL.
Anyone. Literally anyone. Moyes? Yes. Some random guy from championship? Yes.I agree that nothing garunteed but when asking these people who want Ole out who they’d like to replace him and seeing names like Pirlo, Rogers, Howe, Tuchel must be some kind of joke
Fully agreed mate and this is where I am too. Yes, yesterday was poor but we can't lose sight of the fact that we have progressed from where we were last season.No one is gonna win the PL or CL if the squad quality remains the way it is now.
Ole has created a good culture, his man management is great by all accounts, he's arguably among the best in the game when it comes to dealing with media pressure, and he's proven that he can beat anyone. Why not give him a squad that is actually good enough to win the PL? How long are people gonna use his mediocre resume against him?
If he's given a very good squad and things don't improve: fine, get rid.
You’d sack Ole and take Moyes back? Ok I’m out you winAnyone. Literally anyone. Moyes? Yes. Some random guy from championship? Yes.
Is that answer good enough?
And while we are at this subject; Allegri is free and want to come. He is top class manager. You want to say that there is a chance that Allegri would not be better than guy from Molde?
His post implies he would also take Mourinho back. Absolutely no point in arguing with anything like that.You’d sack Ole and take Moyes back? Ok I’m out you win
It's quite interesting, the path that Ole's chosen. I mean, he could mask his deficiencies by bringing in a world-class coaching team (if he's aware of them), but he's actually sticking with McKenna, Phelan, Carrick and then adding Darren Fletcher to that team. We've literally seen Moyes do the exact same thing (but in the opposite direction, ie getting rid of a title-winning coaching team to install his own people), and failing miserably.I can't wait until he's sacked and the new manager brings in two players and wins the league. I wonder what the excuses will be there.
It's a joke these excuses. Lee Grant is going to be our new goal keeping coach now apparently. Who's decision was that? Woodward?
Old boys club, it needs to stop.
His stubbornness will cost him. He's too nice to the wrong people. The coaching staff, the CB's, the keeper. You could argue Martial, who I like but his form is his form.It's quite interesting, the path that Ole's chosen. I mean, he could mask his deficiencies by bringing in a world-class coaching team (if he's aware of them), but he's actually sticking with McKenna, Phelan, Carrick and then adding Darren Fletcher to that team. We've literally seen Moyes do the exact same thing (but in the opposite direction, ie getting rid of a title-winning coaching team to install his own people), and failing miserably.
What a weird hill to die on...
I mean, you kind of answered your own question(?) there? We all want 2-3 new starters (not bench warmers), as that's what we need. 1.5 years ago we needed 5-6 players. Then we got Maguire, AWB and Bruno. So we're halfway there.I can't wait until he's sacked and the new manager brings in two players and wins the league. I wonder what the excuses will be there.
I'll be honest with you two of those 3 could be replaced. Maguire and AWB offer nothing to produce a good attacking team. There's nothing we have currently built which couldn't easily torn apart and still mean we are Champions.I mean, you kind of answered your own question(?) there? We all want 2-3 new starters (not bench warmers), as that's what we need. 1.5 years ago we needed 5-6 players. Then we got Maguire, AWB and Bruno. So we're halfway there.
If Ole is sacked and a new guy comes in and plays the exact same team but with 2-3 new top players in our weakest links instead, then it's not that strange if it leads to a trophy. That should at the very minimum lead to a title challenge!
Since you asked, I'm of the opinion:The "what we need" thread is mostly people addressing the most pressing needs in our squad. Anyone with a brain cell would understand that our stingy owners won't spend upwards of £200m net on players in consecutive summer transfer windows, but I really think that we're staring down the barrel of another rebuild with the current management failing to make the most out of the squad at their disposal.
So let's start with what you think is the most pressing need; CB, CDM and striker. Are our problems fixed a year down the line?
- Martial's not improving, quite the opposite, so he'll be an issue that needs sorting, and Cavani will be turning 35, how long can he be trusted to keep up this level?
- Rashford's stagnated somewhat and is very inconsistent, is he good and/or consistent enough to be the main left winger for us? Is his back going to hinder him going forward? Can he play 60 games per season?
- Pogba's not going to sign a new deal due to our inability to challenge for trophies, so he'll have to be replaced (at a cost)
- We still haven't signed a fecking right winger (Unless Diallo exceeds expectations, obviously, but as we've seen with Greenwood it's hard to chuck an 18 year old in and expect consistency at this level)
- We'll still have Maguire playing offside traps with AWB playing them onside (and blowing hot and cold in attack)
- De Gea will probably still be in goal and Henderson will move on, and we'll have the same problems defending crosses and set pieces
But most importantly: We'll still have a manager who only improves the team by buying better players in every positions. I'm yet to be convinced that Ole's management is improving a majority of players individually.
- Shaw's improved, credit to him for that. McTominay and Fred too, although the latter two can be discussed whether they've improved enough since we agree that we need a CDM.
- Greenwood's improved his general play but has regressed in terms of goalscoring. Being 19, he's always been on this trajectory, so I'd hardly say that he couldn't have hit these heights under any other manager
- AWB and Maguire are still showing the same deficiencies as they did when they signed for us, deficiencies which are costing us goals on a regular basis.
- Martial looked like he was improving last season but has been shocking this season, hardly a good trajectory for him
- Rashford hasn't continued his upwards trajectory which you'd expect from a 23 year old
Getting a new manager seems like the quickest way to a) get the most out of those already at the club and make the team's performances larger than the sum of its parts, and b) actually sign players that aren't necessarily the biggest names, but players that best fit into the style of play that the manager wants to implement. Having seen us play a high line with de Gea in goal and spending £130m on Maguire and AWB, an oil tanker and a right back that can't hold an offside line, makes me distrust Ole's judgment on how to best achieve that goals he wants to achieve with his team.
They're not world beaters, but they are clear improvements on what he had prior. And they are not the weakest links. Lindelöf is clearly worse than Maguire. AWB is a fine fullback overall(though Shaw is obviously better).I'll be honest with you two of those 3 could be replaced. Maguire and AWB offer nothing to produce a good attacking team. There's nothing we have currently built which couldn't easily torn apart and still mean we are Champions.
