Ole freezing out Juan Mata | He didn’t, Juan’s mother has just passed, RIP.

[anant]

Seems like Mata trained today, going by his IG, so hoping he'd be in the squad vs Sociedad

I agree that someone like that is needed, but we have two threads now decrying Lingard/Mata exclusion when both are seriously below the quality needed while taking up valuable wages in the squad.

The club is getting too soft. One of the best things Ole is doing is cutting away all the deadweight. We can’t be sentimental just because Mata is a nice guy and Lingard is a youth player.

Both haven’t been good enough when called upon and are overpaid. Isolating them from the first team and preparing for them to leave is the best move for all parties.

Absolutely, we need an attacker with more technical ability on the ball, but Mata, at this stage of his career, is far from the answer and is paid far too much money.

Its time to give his wage to someone else.

And that's the point here.

Buy a replacement in the summer, but till then, use him in games where he would be needed. Games like SHU, WBA, Arsenal, WHU, etc. are games where he would have made a difference.

 

[Livvie]

When the idiotic "X says he's good so you're an idiot" argument turns out to work even better in reverse against you, get the playground comebacks out.

Jog on, lad.

Lad?

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

My apologies. Should not have assumed you're a lad, silly but common mistake to make on a football forum.

Edited!

 

[Foxbatt]

Seems like Mata trained today, going by his IG, so hoping he'd be in the squad vs Sociedad



And that's the point here.

Buy a replacement in the summer, but till then, use him in games where he would be needed. Games like SHU, WBA, Arsenal, WHU, etc. are games where he would have made a difference.

Mata can play well with a team that plays all out defense. But Mata alone is not going to make a difference. We need to play someone like DVB and Mata together. Why? Because both play pass and move game.

 

[Livvie]

My apologies. Should not have assumed you're a lad, silly but common mistake to make on a football forum.

Edited!

You know many lads called Livvie?

 

[Matt851]

Mata has linked up well with bruno on the occasions they jave played together. Think given our first team looks tired he should get more minutes and would certainly prefer to see him play than martial out wide

 

[Oranges038]

Offers nothing, hasn't for a long time. Time for him to move on.

 

[Matt851]

Offers nothing, hasn't for a long time. Time for him to move on.

To be honest we should have got rid in the summer but seeing as he is here and could offer something different i think we should use him more

 

[Adam-Utd]

He suits Europa style football a lot more, wouldn't be surprised to see him play against Sociedad if he's fit.

 

[ghaliboy]

Not sure why so few people have brought this up.

Because he's old, slow, on a ridiculous wage and should be playing around 4 or 5 games a season. Legitimately don't see the gripe here at all.

 

[stevoc]

Why is always the players who don't play that are always rated the highest on the caf?

We'll be calling Jesse Lingard back soon enough.

Because they're great, if Jones and Bailly were fit and we hadn't have loaned Lingard and played Mata more we'd be at least 10-12 points clear of City right now. Easily.

 

[OrcaFat]

I respect Mata and everybody loves him. But I’m very sceptical he would have made any difference in any games this season. His weaknesses were always lack of mobility and physical strength; I’m afraid his skill and vision can’t offset those deficiencies any more. Think he would just get muscled and clobbered.

Great guy to have around but I don’t see him playing for us any more except in a dead rubber with kids. Could see him joining the coaching team sooner rather than later.

 

[RashyForPM]

Because he's old, slow, on a ridiculous wage and should be playing around 4 or 5 games a season. Legitimately don't see the gripe here at all.

How does his wage have any bearing on his playing time? Obviously I’m not advocating giving him games for this reason, but normally, the higher earning players play more games. Look through football history and this has always been the case.

Anyway, on the pitch, Mata has a creativity, vision, intelligence and ability to unlock a defence that none of our currently fit players bar Bruno has. Are you telling me he wouldn’t have made more impact against Arsenal, Sheff U and WBA than Martial or Donny when he came on against the latter two? Even Rashford, who has hit a bad patch recently. Mata’s best games are against those teams. Watch his performance against Norwich last season and WBA at home this. Two assists and one pen won respectively. You say he can’t run, well Martial can, but just doesn’t want to do it. Rashford’s work rate and decision making has also honestly been a joke since Leipzig.

 

[Livvie]

How does his wage have any bearing on his playing time? Obviously I’m not advocating giving him games for this reason, but normally, the higher earning players play more games. Look through football history and this has always been the case.

Anyway, on the pitch, Mata has a creativity, vision, intelligence and ability to unlock a defence that none of our currently fit players bar Bruno has. Are you telling me he wouldn’t have made more impact against Arsenal, Sheff U and WBA than Martial or Donny when he came on against the latter two? Even Rashford, who has hit a bad patch recently. Mata’s best games are against those teams. Watch his performance against Norwich last season and WBA at home this. Two assists and one pen won respectively. You say he can’t run, well Martial can, but just doesn’t want to do it. Rashford’s work rate and decision making has also honestly been a joke since Leipzig.

Mata and Bruno play well together because they have similar brains. They've linked up really well whereas often you see Bruno either making a pass that isn't met, or expecting one he doesn't get. Mata's contribution this season has likely been greater than Martial's. Not saying much admittedly, but he is one lazy player. People say Mata can only play against lower teams, but most of our poor performances come against those teams and he hasn't featured. I can't say he would have made a difference - but likewise, you can't say he wouldn't either. He's put up with not being played in his favoured position, he's always made the effort, he's never done or said anything controversial - if he reads some of the disrespectful crap from some 'supporters' he might wonder why he bothered. There's a difference between saying a player is past his best and should move on, and some of the OTT and totally wrong opinions that he's 'always been shite'. He deserves at least the same respect he's given the club.

 

[Doracle]

Is he definitely available (present at training etc)? I don’t believe Ole would deliberately freeze him out and, if available, we’d surely have had him, rather than 4 defenders, on the bench at the weekend.

 

[elmo]

Why give him a new contract then? He gave Jones, Smalling & Pereira new deals too. It’s just weird. Refused to let Romero go to Everton for £10m now we’re losing him for free. Refused to let Williams go on loan when he has no use for him in the squad. It’s all just really strange.

That's on the board.

 

[elmo]

I get a feeling there is lobbying in the team. Ole seems to accommodate certain players way more than others. Rashford being top of that list.
Mata fecked his career joining United and United continues to ignore one of the last truly great pass masters.

Quite obvious that Ole plays favourites and Mata is the odd man out because he's deemed too nice and won't cause trouble in the media over a lack of playing time.

 

[anant]

Is he definitely available (present at training etc)? I don’t believe Ole would deliberately freeze him out and, if available, we’d surely have had him, rather than 4 defenders, on the bench at the weekend.

He posted a pic of him training yesterday. So, I'm assuming that he is available now, if he wasn't so earlier

 

[Matt851]

I respect Mata and everybody loves him. But I’m very sceptical he would have made any difference in any games this season. His weaknesses were always lack of mobility and physical strength; I’m afraid his skill and vision can’t offset those deficiencies any more. Think he would just get muscled and clobbered.

Great guy to have around but I don’t see him playing for us any more except in a dead rubber with kids. Could see him joining the coaching team sooner rather than later.

I could have seen him making a difference in the games against west brom or shef utd. He might have been a more effective playmaker than Maguire for example .i agree he isnt syited to fast paced games but there have been opportunities to bring him on to help keep possession and close out games and give key players a rest

 

[Grande]

Quite obvious that Ole plays favourites and Mata is the odd man out because he's deemed too nice and won't cause trouble in the media over a lack of playing time.

 

[AgentSquirrel]

This thread is proper tabloid fodder. Sensationalist title with absolutely no information to back it up contained within. Reasonable questions such as 'is he even available??' immediately brushed aside to argue on a non-existent premise.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

This thread is proper tabloid fodder. Sensationalist title with absolutely no information to back it up contained within. Reasonable questions such as 'is he even available??' immediately brushed aside to argue on a non-existent premise.

I was just thinking that... considering this is the first time in ages he has been pictured in training he might well be back in on Thursday and this will all look a bit silly.

 

[Devil may care]

He posted a pic of him training yesterday. So, I'm assuming that he is available now, if he wasn't so earlier

So has he been injured? Ole has just never mentioned him among the injured list in pressers.

 

[RashyForPM]

Mata and Bruno play well together because they have similar brains. They've linked up really well whereas often you see Bruno either making a pass that isn't met, or expecting one he doesn't get. Mata's contribution this season has likely been greater than Martial's. Not saying much admittedly, but he is one lazy player. People say Mata can only play against lower teams, but most of our poor performances come against those teams and he hasn't featured. I can't say he would have made a difference - but likewise, you can't say he wouldn't either. He's put up with not being played in his favoured position, he's always made the effort, he's never done or said anything controversial - if he reads some of the disrespectful crap from some 'supporters' he might wonder why he bothered. There's a difference between saying a player is past his best and should move on, and some of the OTT and totally wrong opinions that he's 'always been shite'. He deserves at least the same respect he's given the club.

Agree, and that includes giving him game time when 3 of his competition, 2 of which are Ole’s favourites, have been absolutely stinking up the place recently, especially Martial who has genuinely been disgraceful. He’d definitely help to unlock low-blocks.

 

[RashyForPM]

This thread is proper tabloid fodder. Sensationalist title with absolutely no information to back it up contained within. Reasonable questions such as 'is he even available??' immediately brushed aside to argue on a non-existent premise.

He’s been pictured in training recently, and one month ago, Ole admitted he was leaving him out:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/juan-mata-man-utd-transfer-23350946

Prior to that, he was on the bench, still not getting games after being the POTM in September. Do some research pal, no one is brushing anything aside. He is freezing Mata out, in the sense that he is not playing him in games where he’d definitely contribute like Sheff U and WBA. This opinion piece is saying the exact same as me and many others in this thread:
https://www.unitedinfocus.com/news/are-united-wasting-juan-mata/

Also, what am I sensationalising? Do you want me to name the thread ‘Ole apologetically not allowing nice Spanish guy Juan Mata to play football’?

 

[RashyForPM]

So has he been injured? Ole has just never mentioned him among the injured list in pressers.

He’s not, Ole confirmed a month ago that he was leaving him out.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/juan-mata-man-utd-transfer-23350946

Also, he’s just been pictured in training.

 

[devilish]

I thought that he had retired like a year ago.

 

[Zoo]

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[Devil may care]

He’s not, Ole confirmed a month ago that he was leaving him out.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/juan-mata-man-utd-transfer-23350946

Also, he’s just been pictured in training.

It's weird that Ole left him out over James when you can have more subs than ever.

 

[sullydnl]

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Some sort of personal issue probably.

 

[choccy77]

Some sort of personal issue probably.

Mata worried John Terry was going to be in the area with Villa, so opted to stay home with the Wife for a bit.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

People say Mata can only play against lower teams, but most of our poor performances come against those teams and he hasn't featured.

And for the dozenth time, which neither you nor the OP have addressed, Mata has put in dozens of terrible performances against lower teams throughout his time here, most of them when he was still a useful player. Including when he was played in his "favoured position" (I honestly can't remember him having a single good game in a central role, which was where he played for most of that fifteen match run without a single goal contribution in '16).

All you guys have said throughout this topic is that Mata can unlock low blocks (and that he was Player of the Month for destroying Luton), and when people like me point out his appalling numbers in actual end product (which is surely how you assess his so-called creative ability), you hand-wave it away by literally saying "I can't prove he would have made a difference, but you can't prove he wouldn't!". Baffling.

 

[AgentSmith]

And for the dozenth time, which neither you nor the OP have addressed, Mata has put in dozens of terrible performances against lower teams throughout his time here, most of them when he was still a useful player. Including when he was played in his "favoured position" (I honestly can't remember him having a single good game in a central role, which was where he played for most of that fifteen match run without a single goal contribution in '16).

All you guys have said throughout this topic is that Mata can unlock low blocks (and that he was Player of the Month for destroying Luton), and when people like me point out his appalling numbers in actual end product (which is surely how you assess his so-called creative ability), you hand-wave it away by literally saying "I can't prove he would have made a difference, but you can't prove he wouldn't!". Baffling.

I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to think Mata would have been a better option on the bench against Burnley/Fulham/Sheffield United/West Brom than Dan James or VdB.

He’s got 2 goals and 3 assists this season in 9 appearances - stats amplified by the League Cup but those contributions came in games that James and Donny played in, and didn’t contribute, as well.

We’ve been starved of invention and creativity in the final 3rd against these types of teams and it’s logical to wonder whether Mata could have provided more of either. His contribution off the bench against West Ham exemplified both perfectly.

Is he the answer to our problems? No

Should he be starting in our first XI? No

Would he have contributed more off the bench than VdB and James have? Yes, because it would have been impossible to contribute less so it was an option worth trying at the very least.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to think Mata would have been a better option on the bench against Burnley/Fulham/Sheffield United/West Brom than Dan James or VdB.

Van de Beek, sure, because he's been crap. But even then it's obvious why the manager would persist with him in the hope that he'll start replicating his past performances, which (on paper) suggest the sort of line-breaking, productive midfielder that could actually help against defensive teams.

James is an awful player, but he did more than Mata last season when they both featured fairly regularly. As did Lingard and Pereira. (Just going to say this again at the risk of sounding like a broken record: Mata had 2 goal involvements all season).

This is my problem with the pro-Mata arguments: they essentially boil down to "he played a magnificent pass against West Ham so he can still contribute". Well, sure, but that West Ham game wasn't the only one he's played. You say 2 assists in 4 league starts this season, I say the reason those starts are stuck at 4 is because his record going further back is 3 goals and 6 assists in 28 starts. That's inferior to James's return last season when we all wanted him out of the XI.

He would have been worth sticking on the bench instead of one of the defenders last weekend, sure. If that's the argument, I'm on board.

"Ole's biggest miscalculation this season"? Ridiculous.

"Creativity and vision on par with or exceeding Pogba and Fernandes"? No one who's watched Mata for the last four years could say that with a straight face.

 

[Foxbatt]

Mata and DVB should play together. They both are pass and move players.

 

[AgentSmith]

Van de Beek, sure, because he's been crap. But even then it's obvious why the manager would persist with him in the hope that he'll start replicating his past performances, which (on paper) suggest the sort of line-breaking, productive midfielder that could actually help against defensive teams.

James is an awful player, but he did more than Mata last season when they both featured fairly regularly. As did Lingard and Pereira. (Just going to say this again at the risk of sounding like a broken record: Mata had 2 goal involvements all season).

This is my problem with the pro-Mata arguments: they essentially boil down to "he played a magnificent pass against West Ham so he can still contribute". Well, sure, but that West Ham game wasn't the only one he's played. You say 2 assists in 4 league starts this season, I say the reason those starts are stuck at 4 is because his record going further back is 3 goals and 6 assists in 28 starts. That's inferior to James's return last season when we all wanted him out of the XI.

He would have been worth sticking on the bench instead of one of the defenders last weekend, sure. If that's the argument, I'm on board.

"Ole's biggest miscalculation this season"? Ridiculous.

"Creativity and vision on par with or exceeding Pogba and Fernandes"? No one who's watched Mata for the last four years could say that with a straight face.

I didn't tbf, I said he had 2 goals and 3 assists in 9 appearances - enough contributions, in my opinion, to have warranted inclusion on the bench against teams that are clearly going to sit deep against us.

Mata's link up play with Bruno is also something we have fleetingly seen in games but seems a level above the football we've been subject to in recent weeks - it would have been nice to have this as an option off the bench, nothing more. I don't think he should be starting and if those quotes you reference are people's genuine opinions they're clearly wrong. Mata's day at the top is done.

Amazing bloke though. Seems a genuinely nice and down-to-earth guy who wants to use his position to make a difference. Big hugs.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Those quotes are from the opening post in this thread! Which is why I'm still ranting, it's genuinely mind-boggling.

I have nothing against Mata, he's clearly a top guy and the entire team loves him. But that's the only reason he's still at the club, because he's no longer a top-half PL caliber player.

 

[Doracle]

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Thanks Zoo. So no freezing out going on (other than he obviously, and understandably, isn’t in the first 11). As suspected, he’s not been available. Presumably will be in the squad on Thursday.

 

[AgentSmith]

Those quotes are from the opening post in this thread! Which is why I'm still ranting, it's genuinely mind-boggling.

I have nothing against Mata, he's clearly a top guy and the entire team loves him. But that's the only reason he's still at the club, because he's no longer a top-half PL caliber player.

I should really pay more attention to the entirety of the thread. I see @Zoo posted a quote that basically renders my argument useless - Ole would have liked to use him against low-block defences but was unable to due to an undisclosed reason.

Sounds like a personal problem so I hope he's doing alright.

 

[rhajdu]

I also thought that Mata has a personal issue and that is why he has not featured recently. If I am not mistaken, he completely disappeared from social media in the last few weeks. Albeit, he also stopped blogging in the end of 2019 which was super weird after 5 years of weekly postings.