Okay, so you weren't okay with the George Floyd and Hong-Kong protests, then?
The murder of Sarah Everard | Couzens sentenced to a whole-life order
- Thread starter VeevaVee
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And nobody even knows if it's her profession, it's a profile she made on a free website that anyone can make a profile on in two minutes.
Do you know what she did to get arrested? I haven't seen any info on that. Everyone is assuming that the arrest was 'heavy-handed' but we don't know the circumstances of the arrest yet. If one of the police had their knee on her throat then I'd have a problem with it.
Is there proper proof of the fact that she was a victim of anything other than the normal response in that situation? Is the police arresting people getting unruly at a protest really of a similar vein to a violent murder of a woman, by someone who happened to be a police officer?
Good point, she’s actually a student isn’t she? I know quite a few people who got extras work through those sort of sites.
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about something. Why don't you go into the Floyd thread and see if I have any posts that you can seize upon.
Hong Kong hardly compares here.
Surely the obvious difference between the BLM/HK protests was that they were actual protests? Trying to take the state to task because of systemic injustices. In those scenarios it might be justified to ignore the rules set by the state. Today was what? A vigil? Seems a bit rich to allow thousands to gather to mourn the death of one person (they’ve never met) when millions have been denied the chance to give members of their own families a proper send off.
Shes 5 foot 2 and had two officers pinning her down when she wasn’t fighting back and was a threat to absolutely nobody. As has already been said multiple times, the offence she was guilty of could and should have been dealt with by simply writing a fine on a piece of paper and handing it to her.
In your opinion.
Yeah I've seen loads of people that have just made random profiles on extras/model sites, it means nothing.
The ID of the ginger woman is irrelevant. The question is why the police were clearing the bandstand and if they used excessive force in doing so.
Yes, don't think the vigils should have taken place given the sacrifices we have all had to make during lockdown, but I have sympathy for those who attended with genuine intentions to show solidarity with the victim. However given the profile of this case there was always going to be an element looking to hijack the event, and the police, quite pathetically, blundered right into the trap.
By the letter of the law. The only offence these people were guilty of is enforceable by a fixed penalty notice, not arrest.
Priti fecking Patel has even come out and said it was badly handled by the MET. It’s a really weird hill to die on.
As far as I can tell the available footage and pics don't give a clear picture of what happened. You seem to think it does.
Sorry but you're wrong. There's a power of arrest attached to every offence providing there is a necessity. You can be arrested for littering for instance providing a necessity to arrest exists. S24 PACE lays out the different necessities. Ascertaining name and address falls into this category and during the pandemic a specific necessity aimed around the protection of public health has been added.
Have you broken the restrictions of Lockdown at any time during the Pandemic? Do you feel that there are personal circumstances that should mean that you could defy this social contract of protecting other people?
No, that’s not the law at all.
If someone fails to provide their details in this instance you can arrest them.
We don’t know the full circs yet.
But Secondly as she was de-arrested she may have been arrested for breach of the peace. And that would explain her being arrested, physically removed to another location and then de-arrested.
A bee in your bonnet, that's nice. Very folksy.
To remind you, this is what you said:
Now, if you want to keep adding qualifiers as to what constitutes a worthy protest in your eyes, that's your prerogative. But the qualifiers you initially went with were "illegal" and "pandemic". I am just pointing out that there have been several illegal protests during the pandemic.
Well I'm sure that felt great typing it out but what are you wanting from me?
I would settle for mods not essentially wumming in CE threads.
Feel free to report any instances you come across.
Well, yeah. If you strip it back to its barest bones it's just a closed circuit camera system observing its immediate surroundings! But it's much more complicated than that as you know. We live in a world where big data and shady autocratic governance rule the roost. When you consider that the vast majority of sexual assaults are perpetrated by someone known to the victim, usually taking place in residential settings, willingly surrendering our civil liberties and privacy for something that won't solve the problem but will make everyone's lives worse for a multitude of others reasons doesn't make any sense. Automated facial recognition CCTV is coming for you and everyone you love!!
Jesus wept.
I deal with facial recognition on a day to day basis, I deal with finger print readers, CCTV, software programs you can only dream of every day.
It's not oppressive, our Governments are not using it for nefarious purposes, it's being used to protect people.
Facial recognition has been around for years, only now is it mainstream. Again, it isn't used for the purpose you believe it is.
In terms of what should be done to help tackle the issues that have been raised over the last week, stricter laws and more money spent on education campaigns is the obvious answer I think.
In terms of education, I'm thinking particularly of the impact anti drink-driving campaigns had in Ireland. By the time I was 18 the general attitude among my peer group was that drink driving was a shameful thing that should be called out and we felt pretty comfortable doing so. Given that is exactly the sort of culture we want to create around harassment, it makes sense to me to adopt a similar approach. Which (in essense) means bombarding people with messaging as they grow up.
In terms of laws, we've seen countries like France introduce anti-harassment laws, with people being given on the spot fines for things like cat-calling, wolf-whistling and lewd remarks. Obviously there's a limit on how effective it can be but it's certainly a helpful step, especially if the primary goal is to increase awareness of what isn't acceptable behaviour. The on-the-spot nature of the fines is particularly helpful given how reluctant a lot of women would be to pursue an extended legal process or even make formal complaints.
You could also look at stricter laws and punishments for more minor sex crimes (such as indecent exposure, as raised in this instance) in the hope that heavier intervention will help prevent escalation to more serious crimes. If nothing else it would also help reinforce the idea that these are not minor incidents to be dismissed. Indeed these measures may raise awareness even within the ranks of the police on how seriously these incidents should be treated.
In terms of education, I'm thinking particularly of the impact anti drink-driving campaigns had in Ireland. By the time I was 18 the general attitude among my peer group was that drink driving was a shameful thing that should be called out and we felt pretty comfortable doing so. Given that is exactly the sort of culture we want to create around harassment, it makes sense to me to adopt a similar approach. Which (in essense) means bombarding people with messaging as they grow up.
In terms of laws, we've seen countries like France introduce anti-harassment laws, with people being given on the spot fines for things like cat-calling, wolf-whistling and lewd remarks. Obviously there's a limit on how effective it can be but it's certainly a helpful step, especially if the primary goal is to increase awareness of what isn't acceptable behaviour. The on-the-spot nature of the fines is particularly helpful given how reluctant a lot of women would be to pursue an extended legal process or even make formal complaints.
You could also look at stricter laws and punishments for more minor sex crimes (such as indecent exposure, as raised in this instance) in the hope that heavier intervention will help prevent escalation to more serious crimes. If nothing else it would also help reinforce the idea that these are not minor incidents to be dismissed. Indeed these measures may raise awareness even within the ranks of the police on how seriously these incidents should be treated.
Good constructive suggestions, agree with what you say.
I'd read it was being used in China to give instant fines for minor law violations. It may not be used for that in the UK now, but I don't doubt it will be.
Facial recognition technologies has existed in the U.K. for years but only recently became properly useful, in large part due to the increased pervasiveness of social media. It's not just about it becoming 'mainstream' ffs. I can't believe someone that works in the industry would be so blinkered to the other side of the argument. There's a very legitimate debate that's going on and which needs to be had.It’s the sort of attitude I’m used to seeing from the blinkered, middle aged men on here who think that their opinion is gospel and everyone else is being silly.
Can you appreciate that you seem to be stereotyping a group of people also?
We don't all feel that she is an irrelevant attention seeker.
I'm not sure it really matters whether she is or isn’t 'playing anything to her advantage'? I don’t get why this needs to be the focus. She’s perfectly within her right to protest and also do so over social media, and that doesn’t make her a bad person. If she’s doing it for attention, which I don’t think she is, then meh, she’s not great, but it’s not that bad.
If she created a Twitter to become some kind of figurehead for this then fair play. I hope she goes about it well and doesn’t squander the position she’s in.
If she created a Twitter to become some kind of figurehead for this then fair play. I hope she goes about it well and doesn’t squander the position she’s in.
She's an actress that breathes that recreated a Twitter account, which means she's doing it all for the attention. I think.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
I found this a very interesting thread and relevant to the discussion here.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Again, your wrong.
Facial recognition has been in a usable useful state for several years, I recall visiting a Chinese company who showed me an active working demo of a system able to pick out faces in a crowd of over 100 People, which was insane technology back then, that was about 7 years ago, we have moved on massively since then.
By the use of the word 'mainstream' I mean accepted by the masses.
We use facial recognition all the time on our smartphones now, which shows an acceptance of the tech, nothing to do with social media.
China actively use their facial recognition systems to search out and persecute Uighur Muslims, however our Government does not have that level of control over existing CCTV systems, and there's still alot of grey areas in the police using these types of systems over here.
I'm not even sure what point you're arguing to be honest, I literally said it's only become useful in recent years which is correct. 7 years is recent? The reason why there's concerns over its usage in democratic countries is exactly because there's so much uncertainty surrounding it, and a lack of regulation. It has been banned in lots of cities across the States until proper debates around protections of civil liberties have been had. It has chilling potential.
Besides, it's not just governments. The private sector makes up a huge demand for such technologies and lots of the companies are in conversation with police to share data. Social media is also complicit in this so I'm not sure why you said it has nothing to do with it.
In the video I saw there's a group of women knelt down in a line with no space between them, the police appear to be asking them to separate but they just look on and ignore for a long time then the police have to break up it due to the pandemic, it's what they've done elsewhere. A bunch of women police officers would've had to do the same. If they were spaced apart or spaced themselves apart when the police arrived I don't think anything would've been done.
Can't understand why people are finding it hard to understand this basic concept and assuming that she's an innocent victim in all this. The media are merciless in finding the perfect photo to cause moral outrage which this photo has done but fail to supply the actual buildup as to why it happened.
Reports from the event, like the tweet I shared above, say people were socially distanced until the police moved forward to corral them.
Sounds very unlikely to be fair. Chances are they weren't sufficiently distanced and the police were right to try and disperse the group.
The tactics are obviously uncalled for but it's the usual heavy handedness that they've shown against climate change protests.
The optics aren't great but what else can they do when the people they are trying to disperse are wilfully ignoring them?
Having spent time reflecting and reading first hand accounts of the evening, I personally think it's a real shame the people who went there to cause trouble turned up. Obviously that's sort of inevitable, however I do think if the police had engaged constructively to begin with it would perhaps have been more preventable. Ultimately I think this image:
is far more powerful than this image:
And it's sad that the latter image is what has taken the headlines; and both the woman in question and the police are accountable for it, in my opinion.