German Football 20/21

[Kasper]

How's the season been? Just from looking at the table, it looks like a good position for the play-off, at least. How long since you've been in the 2.Liga, 10 years?
Would be awesome to have both Hansa and Dynamo Dresden (who I think struggled initially this season) back. Think it's ok to sacrifice a Sandhausen or Osnabrück for that.

Season has been good so far although not outstanding. We have relatively good depth which has definitely helped with the tight schedule and thankfully have been quite fortunate with Corona or weather related rescheduling. BUT we have been incredible jammy Multiple last minute wins or things going our way. So the table is really not a good reflection of our play, last time we got promoted (10 years ago indeed and then relegated back straight away) was definitely more dominant. Especially in the last few games of the current run of games (8 wins in 10) the football has been really dire, an awful loss against Lübeck, a 2-1 win against Lautern where we were outplayed but scored the winner in the 95th minute and a 1-0 against Uerdingen who failed to score their penalty in the 91. minute
So we`re punching above our weight but hopefully it`ll continue. Dresden in comparison has been really dominant, spanking teams 3-0,4-0 left and right, they`ll definitely go up.

 

[do.ob]

Just seen Leverkusen's recent results.....christ almighty.

Knocked out comfortably by Young boys in europa and last few Bundesliga results have been 2-2 at home to Mainz, 1-1 at Augsburg and lost 1-2 at home to Freiburg and Bielefeld. Also before lost to v Leipzig and Wolfsburg. Even with all that still only 4 points off 4th.

Yet another promising position mid season that has just disintegrated, Bosz must be close to the sack as looking at their line up yesterday it dosen't seem like they have many injuries.

You could put Leverkusen, Arsenal and Roma all in some DNA chamber and merge them all and you'd still be miles off a title challenging team.

I think it's a multi-layered problem. Fatigue is (or was) one factor, exacerbated by a lack of rotation (several long term injuries, most of their options in depth, Gray in particular, were only signed during the winter window), then there is a structural problem in the squad: simply put: most of their players are inconsistent and they lack a bit of quality in the center of attack, so when they aren't in form they struggle to create, they aren't super clinical either and they feck up at the back. Bielefeld's second was a good example. Their goalkeepers have produced some comedy as well. And sometimes, like when they went out to a 4h division club, it's just bad luck.
I'm sure by now their bad form has a dynamic of its own. It doesn't look to me like it's all Bosz's fault, but with every game like that their results are getting harder to ignore.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Season has been good so far although not outstanding. We have relatively good depth which has definitely helped with the tight schedule and thankfully have been quite fortunate with Corona or weather related rescheduling. BUT we have been incredible jammy Multiple last minute wins or things going our way. So the table is really not a good reflection of our play, last time we got promoted (10 years ago indeed and then relegated back straight away) was definitely more dominant. Especially in the last few games of the current run of games (8 wins in 10) the football has been really dire, an awful loss against Lübeck, a 2-1 win against Lautern where we were outplayed but scored the winner in the 95th minute and a 1-0 against Uerdingen who failed to score their penalty in the 91. minute
So we`re punching above our weight but hopefully it`ll continue. Dresden in comparison has been really dominant, spanking teams 3-0,4-0 left and right, they`ll definitely go up.

Well, then fingers crossed vs Türkgücü tonight..
How's the financial situation? Edit: I read that it's solid. Great to hear.

I see that your coach is Jens Härtel, I remember him from being the coach of a local Regionalliga team a few years back, where he oversaw one of the most memorable matches I ever had the pleasure of attending: a triumphant Pokal first round demolition of Hoffenheim which spelled the (beginning of the) end of the careers of both Tim Wiese as player and Markus Babbel as Bundesliga manager.. He didn't stay around long though.

 

[Zehner]

I think it's a multi-layered problem. Fatigue is (or was) one factor, exacerbated by a lack of rotation (several long term injuries, most of their options in depth, Gray in particular, were only signed during the winter window), then there is a structural problem in the squad: simply put: most of their players are inconsistent and they lack a bit of quality in the center of attack, so when they aren't in form they struggle to create, they aren't super clinical either and they feck up at the back. Bielefeld's second was a good example. Their goalkeepers have produced some comedy as well. And sometimes, like when they went out to a 4h division club, it's just bad luck.
I'm sure by now their bad form has a dynamic of its own. It doesn't look to me like it's all Bosz's fault, but with every game like that their results are getting harder to ignore.

I think the statistic I believe you posted a while ago, which visualized that we (and Gladbach for that matter) are among the teams who run the least, is quite telling. In his post match Ortega said that we again ran 7 km less than Bielefeld and didn't have more sprints than them. On top of that, some of our back ups (Wendell...) are just not good enough. Add to that two ping pong goals from them, a top class keeper performance (Ortega is just great) and you lose against Bielefeld, even with a somewhat decent performance.

Anyway, it's been three weeks since we went out in the Europa League and many formerly injured players are coming back. Not only that but it's about time some key players like Aranguiz hit some form again. In summary, the excuses for Bosz are getting thinner.

And most importantly, we're playing like idiots. Shots from all kind of angles, crosses when it doesn't make sense, no patience in the build up. Those things happen so often that thei coach should've intervened some time ago. I fear that this is actually supported by Bosz and this would be truly awful. I'm a big fan of him and until now I completely had his back but I'm getting tired of this absolutely uninspired shit show. We should've still won against Bielefeld but if we wouldn't shoot and cross everytime we've got one meter of space around 30 m from goal, we would've put 4 or 5 past them, that's how bad they were.

 

[do.ob]

I think the statistic I believe you posted a while ago, which visualized that we (and Gladbach for that matter) are among the teams who run the least, is quite telling. In his post match Ortega said that we again ran 7 km less than Bielefeld and didn't have more sprints than them. On top of that, some of our back ups (Wendell...) are just not good enough. Add to that two ping pong goals from them, a top class keeper performance (Ortega is just great) and you lose against Bielefeld, even with a somewhat decent performance.

Anyway, it's been three weeks since we went out in the Europa League and many formerly injured players are coming back. Not only that but it's about time some key players like Aranguiz hit some form again. In summary, the excuses for Bosz are getting thinner.

And most importantly, we're playing like idiots. Shots from all kind of angles, crosses when it doesn't make sense, no patience in the build up. Those things happen so often that thei coach should've intervened some time ago. I fear that this is actually supported by Bosz and this would be truly awful. I'm a big fan of him and until now I completely had his back but I'm getting tired of this absolutely uninspired shit show. We should've still won against Bielefeld but if we wouldn't shoot and cross everytime we've got one meter of space around 30 m from goal, we would've put 4 or 5 past them, that's how bad they were.

Isn't this just the squad? Like there is a reason why Bailey's best season was three years ago, why Diaby, despite his talent, got just the 5 goals and assists last year. Decision making isn't exactly their strength. Then you have a double 8/10 of Demirbay and Amiri and wing support from the legendary Wendell and Frimpong, who has just made the step up from Celtic. It's no surprise that attack can struggle against an opponent who defends deep, works hard and doesn't really offer up many mistakes.
Dortmund vs Hertha was a similar game, the difference being that Dortmund were solid at the back and had Brandt's immense long shot quality to rely on.

 

[Zehner]

Isn't this just the squad? Like there is a reason why Bailey's best season was three years ago, why Diaby, despite his talent, got just the 5 goals and assists last year. Decision making isn't exactly their strength. Then you have a double 8/10 of Demirbay and Amiri and wing support from the legendary Wendell and Frimpong, who has just made the step up from Celtic. It's no surprise that attack can struggle against an opponent who defends deep, works hard and doesn't really offer up many mistakes.
Dortmund vs Hertha was a similar game, the difference being that Dortmund were solid at the back and had Brandt's immense long shot quality to rely on.

I generally agree that the squad is very inconsistent and probably overrated, too. Most Leverkusen fans I know were in for a very disappointing season, especially since we lost Volland and Havertz without replacement on top of a generally thin squad anyway, let alone Corona and our injury crisis. However, being first in December and Bailey, Diaby, Amiri, Baumgartlinger and Alario veing much better than previously has changed this self reflected perspetive a bit.

Anyway, there are still some things you can't ignore. Yes, Diaby and co. aren't exactly the best in regards to decision making and the 'head through the wall' style is probably more intuitive to them but this has become far too extreme to only come from the players. We attempted 25 shots and 20+ crosses against Freiburg with a total xG of 1.16. That's insane and although I want to give Bosz the venedit of the doubt but it smells like an instruction by the coach.

Especially because he likes to talk about 'forcing goals'. Own goals, set pieces, deflected shots etc. If his system is built on exploiting this randomness by 'attempting it often', I don't think he has found sustainable approach to attacking play say the least.

 

[do.ob]

I generally agree that the squad is very inconsistent and probably overrated, too. Most Leverkusen fans I know were in for a very disappointing season, especially since we lost Volland and Havertz without replacement on top of a generally thin squad anyway, let alone Corona and our injury crisis. However, being first in December and Bailey, Diaby, Amiri, Baumgartlinger and Alario veing much better than previously has changed this self reflected perspetive a bit.

Anyway, there are still some things you can't ignore. Yes, Diaby and co. aren't exactly the best in regards to decision making and the 'head through the wall' style is probably more intuitive to them but this has become far too extreme to only come from the players. We attempted 25 shots and 20+ crosses against Freiburg with a total xG of 1.16. That's insane and although I want to give Bosz the venedit of the doubt but it smells like an instruction by the coach.

Especially because he likes to talk about 'forcing goals'. Own goals, set pieces, deflected shots etc. If his system is built on exploiting this randomness by 'attempting it often', I don't think he has found sustainable approach to attacking play say the least.

But the bolded bit is just the curse of a good deed, people greedily inflating their expectations, eventually contrasting a run of good form against the coach that made it happen. It's quite a common effect in football.

If you look at his recent substitutions it seems quite obvious that he's forcing this. You can see he's approaching matches with more or less a 433 and when the game goes against them he brings on his second no9 for a midfielder and switches to what probably looks like a 442.

Now if you look at the xG timeline of their last three matches:
Augsburg: minutes 1 to 57 -> 0.13 xG, on comes Alario for Wirtz -> 0.27 xG during remaining 33 minutes
Freiburg: minutes 1 to 67 -> 0.48 xG, on comes Schick for Gray -> 0.68 xG during the the remaining 23 minutes
Bielefeld: minutes 1 to 45 -> 0.76 xG, on comes Alario for Gray -> 1.61 xG during the remaining 45 minutes

Looks to me like when he realizes that their usual approach isn't working, he will make a pragmatic switch to a more simple approach and judging by xG it's actually having a positive effect. At least relatively speaking.
Now of course it's valid to point out that PL style hoofball is no sustainable recipe for long-term success, but this isn't Bosz's first season and he's proven in the past that he is more than willing to play "good" football.

 

[Hansi Fick]

BUT we have been incredible jammy Multiple last minute wins or things going our way.

Shocked to learn that one has to subscribe to 'Magenta TV' in order to watch the 3. Liga

Instead, quotes from the kicker ticker

Aus dem Nichts geht Rostock noch vor der Pause in Führung!

Direkt danach ist Pause. Türkgücü startete stark, belohnte sich aber nicht. Das rächte sich, denn danach besser verteidigende Gäste gingen mit dem Pfiff zur Pause in Führung.

Rostock erhöht! [..] Ähnlicher Treffer wie beim 1:0, und wieder hatte sich das nicht gerade angebahnt.

Up to second place now. Top of the 3rd division table reads like Erich Mielke's worst nightmare

 

[kaiser1]

There are 'tiers' of national football teams? Who is in tier 1?

Just the more successful ones historically just like we have tier 1 clubs
Countries that have been successful at recent world cup
Brazil Germany France Italy Argentina Spain those types

 

[Zehner]

But the bolded bit is just the curse of a good deed, people greedily inflating their expectations, eventually contrasting a run of good form against the coach that made it happen. It's quite a common effect in football.

If you look at his recent substitutions it seems quite obvious that he's forcing this. You can see he's approaching matches with more or less a 433 and when the game goes against them he brings on his second no9 for a midfielder and switches to what probably looks like a 442.

Now if you look at the xG timeline of their last three matches:
Augsburg: minutes 1 to 57 -> 0.13 xG, on comes Alario for Wirtz -> 0.27 xG during remaining 33 minutes
Freiburg: minutes 1 to 67 -> 0.48 xG, on comes Schick for Gray -> 0.68 xG during the the remaining 23 minutes
Bielefeld: minutes 1 to 45 -> 0.76 xG, on comes Alario for Gray -> 1.61 xG during the remaining 45 minutes

Looks to me like when he realizes that their usual approach isn't working, he will make a pragmatic switch to a more simple approach and judging by xG it's actually having a positive effect. At least relatively speaking.
Now of course it's valid to point out that PL style hoofball is no sustainable recipe for long-term success, but this isn't Bosz's first season and he's proven in the past that he is more than willing to play "good" football.

Interesting, where did you get the stats regarding the xG timeline from?

Anyway, your observations are correct, he's switched to 4-4-2 a couple of times now. I also doubt that this is his go to approach and more or less desperation but those premature shots and crosses aren't exclusive to the final period of a game, we're doing it from the first minute. It obviously gets more dangerous with two man up front but if that was the approach of Bosz, we could've as well sticked with Heiko Herrlich who attempted the same.

I want him to be more idealistic. If he believes the players aren't fit to find solutions and thus follows a "head through wall" approach then IMO he should try to teach them a more subtle way. I get that the first instinct of players like Diaby or Bailey is to shoot, cross and generally attempt the spectacular instead of the subtle but just accepting this as reality is not ambitious enough for me.

What's also to consider: The players we sign are usually the Bailey/Diaby type, too. I generally agree with you that Bosz isn't to blame primarily for this crisis but there are growing signs that "forcing goals on top of high possession" is in fact the first plan, not the second or third. And that's causing me a bit of nausea to be honest. I mean, it's been some time since we played the most beautiful football with both Brandt and Havertz in the team and since then, good patches of form primarily occurred when we beat our xG extensively. Even during our most effective episodes since then, we always had the shortcomings described above in our game.

 

[do.ob]

Interesting, where did you get the stats regarding the xG timeline from?

Anyway, your observations are correct, he's switched to 4-4-2 a couple of times now. I also doubt that this is his go to approach and more or less desperation but those premature shots and crosses aren't exclusive to the final period of a game, we're doing it from the first minute. It obviously gets more dangerous with two man up front but if that was the approach of Bosz, we could've as well sticked with Heiko Herrlich who attempted the same.

I want him to be more idealistic. If he believes the players aren't fit to find solutions and thus follows a "head through wall" approach then IMO he should try to teach them a more subtle way. I get that the first instinct of players like Diaby or Bailey is to shoot, cross and generally attempt the spectacular instead of the subtle but just accepting this as reality is not ambitious enough for me.

What's also to consider: The players we sign are usually the Bailey/Diaby type, too. I generally agree with you that Bosz isn't to blame primarily for this crisis but there are growing signs that "forcing goals on top of high possession" is in fact the first plan, not the second or third. And that's causing me a bit of nausea to be honest. I mean, it's been some time since we played the most beautiful football with both Brandt and Havertz in the team and since then, good patches of form primarily occurred when we beat our xG extensively. Even during our most effective episodes since then, we always had the shortcomings described above in our game.

xG timelines is a feature of understat.com

I think your expectations are too idealistic. When the opposition keeps 20 legs between the ball and the goal at all times there is no substitute for individual quality. And as you've correctly pointed out Leverkusen have taken the creativity and flair of Brandt, the silky close control in tight spaces and smart decisions of Havertz and Volland's intelligence, movement and directness and replaced it with Amiri, Demirbay and let's say Bailey.
Favre's dream scenario at Dortmund was passing it side to side for 60 minutes, without taking any risk at all just to make the other team shift after the ball over and over and then substitute one CM for a more attacking one and get just a bit more space from a tiring defence. Even if you look at Bayern and I mean this with no disrespect: most of their can openers are some "shitty" goal from a cross or corner or individual mistake which they efficiently exploit.

 

[Zehner]

xG timelines is a feature of understat.com

I think your expectations are too idealistic. When the opposition keeps 20 legs between the ball and the goal at all times there is no substitute for individual quality. And as you've correctly pointed out Leverkusen have taken the creativity and flair of Brandt, the silky close control in tight spaces and smart decisions of Havertz and Volland's intelligence, movement and directness and replaced it with Amiri, Demirbay and let's say Bailey.
Favre's dream scenario at Dortmund was passing it side to side for 60 minutes, without taking any risk at all just to make the other team shift after the ball over and over and then substitute one CM for a more attacking one and get just a bit more space from a tiring defence. Even if you look at Bayern and I mean this with no disrespect: most of their can openers are some "shitty" goal from a cross or corner or individual mistake which they efficiently exploit.

I agree with many of your arguments. However, I think you underrate the individual quality a bit. It's not like we have no players with great close control now. Diaby and to a lesser extent also Bailey are still raw in their decision making but they generally have great technique (even if sometimes inconsistent, sort of like Dembele for instance) but you could definitely utilize their strength in dribbling more. Especially Diaby is practically indefendable in certain situations. Schick for me is also an upgrade on Volland. The flaws come with their decision making and I'd argue that's part of the coach's job. Quite regularly they take shots and crosses when there are definitely better options available.

However, especially in midfield we lack quality, that's true. Amiri played great in the first half of the season, there's no denying that, but I always doubted his individual quality until then. Demirbay is a huge disappointment. We lack that spark from midfield so I hope that Palacios and Paulinho will soon be integrated into the starting eleven. They'd be exactly what we need, especially Paulinho.

 

[do.ob]

Even the best players can't just dribble head on into a compact defense. Teams use certain patterns to create space for them or for others through them.
Like the wide attacker dragging defenders inside so the fullback (Wendell?) can burst forward assume the winger role. Or by having a player who is very comfortable under a lot of pressure and can pick a pemetrating pass (Amiri?) or by having a CM who can evade pressure and switch play to the other wing, with a movement and pass so crisp the defense doesn't get the time to fully shift, but also so reliable that interceptions don't kill you on the counter (Demirbay?).
I think those players have their qualities, but not really on the level you need to consistently outplay deep defenses, who are fighting for survival.

 

[Zehner]

Even the best players can't just dribble head on into a compact defense. Teams use certain patterns to create space for them or for others through them.
Like the wide attacker dragging defenders inside so the fullback (Wendell?) can burst forward assume the winger role. Or by having a player who is very comfortable under a lot of pressure and can pick a pemetrating pass (Amiri?) or by having a CM who can evade pressure and switch play to the other wing, with a movement and pass so crisp the defense doesn't get the time to fully shift, but also so reliable that interceptions don't kill you on the counter (Demirbay?).
I think those players have their qualities, but not really on the level you need to consistently outplay deep defenses, who are fighting for survival.

That's what I meant. It doesn't seem as if such a strategy is currently being utilized but then again their has to be a better approach than shoot, cross and pray with the players at our disposal. I don't know how much you've seen from us but it's at times really, really bad. We had many opportunities against Bielefeld but still wasted so many attacks because we tested our luck instead of being patient. And it's such a contrast to the beginnings under Bosz.

Yet it's to an extent also the players who are used. Palacios looked very good in the two games he got to play before he immediately injured himself. Paulinho is still recovering and just started training with the team but since Bosz was very cautious with using him even before that, I doubt he'll play a role this season. Those would be two players perfect for more subtle attacking patterns. It's sometimes really hard to understand why Bosz didn't trust them more. Paulinho for instance had an xGC of 1.45, an xGBU of 0.71 and 2.25 key passes per 90 in his 250 minutes last season. Even if it's a small sample size, it shows that he had great attacking impact when he was on the field, definitely deserving more minutes, and still Bosz barely used him. I mean, indicate that he had a Neymar like performance in those 250 minutes and he didn't take long shots or crossed it. Of course he won't keep those stats up but surely this would be deserving of more minutes?

But no, next game it's Bellarabi crosses and Amiri long shots all over again. I really fear that this is a systemic issue and that would be bad.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Would you say that Boldt leaving has made your squad planning worse?

 

[do.ob]

Maybe that's Bosz's way of risk management? Like all of these things I described leave you vulnerable if your players mess up the execution and Leverkusen's defenders are inconsistent as well. The experienced players are injured, the goalkeepers have been generous this season.
Like I said: nothing is more demanding than ambitious possession football, maybe it's time for Leverkusen to ask themselves whether they can actually afford the kind of squad that Bosz needs and if not go back to the days of Schmidt.

 

[Zehner]

Would you say that Boldt leaving has made your squad planning worse?

No, not really. Many Leverkusen fans still have a very high opinion of Boldt but I believe that's down to the inferiority and "bottler" complex the club has. We were always a club that scouts exciting talent and develops those players before having to sell them and people grew sick of hearing "we have a young squad, it is to be expected that such games happen". Boldt signed many experienced players and many fans loved him for it but I don't think that there's a cheap short cut to quality. We can only punch above our weight if we develop the players themselves. We can't sign them directly. That's just how it is. Anyway, you can imagine how fans cheered when he landed a transfer like Chicharito. Finally a big name under the Bayer cross and this kind of stuff. They didn't really care how bad he actually was.

For me, Boldt is responsible for our squad being filled with mediocrity for years, at times even very, very expensive mediocrity. Chicharito, Dragovic, Sven Bender, Mehmedi, Ramalho, Kruse, etc. I believe ultimately those players did more harm than good by blocking the development of more promising youngsters.

Sure, he also signed some very good talents but in general, I didn't like our transfer strategy under him.

Maybe that's Bosz's way of risk management? Like all of these things I described leave you vulnerable if your players mess up the execution and Leverkusen's defenders are inconsistent as well. The experienced players are injured, the goalkeepers have been generous this season.
Like I said: nothing is more demanding than ambitious possession football, maybe it's time for Leverkusen to ask themselves whether they can actually afford the kind of squad that Bosz needs and if not go back to the days of Schmidt.

Ironically, I think we had the perfect players for a possession based system when we signed Bosz and now it's the other way round. We had very good technicians in Brandt, Havertz and Aranguiz running the midfield. Now it's completely dull. It might not be the right system with the current player material but in general, it's a good ambition to have.

As a CL team in the Bundesliga, you'll end up with much possession anyway so you better know how to utilize it. If you don'tknow how to handle possession, I believe you're at the wrong place as a coach at a top 6 club in any league. Thing is, we currently lack any creative spark and this would be a problem in every system. Even if we wanted to play differently, teams wouldn't even allow it. The question is, is our dull attack down to our one dimensional players or is the coach to blame, too. Right now, our attacking patterns aren't very sustainable to say the least.

 

[FootballHQ]

Isn't Bailey having a decent season again? Just looked it up and 12 goals in Bundesliga and europa isn't that bad from 30 odd games.

Surprised you haven't sold him on to premier league yet for inflated fee, I'd take him at Villa given where we are currently.

I do respect Leverkusen for how they scout and build interesting teams every couple of years. Just frustrating they get in really good positions mid season and it just fizzles out whoever the coach is (was same under Schmidt aswell).

 

[Kasper]

Shocked to learn that one has to subscribe to 'Magenta TV' in order to watch the 3. Liga

Instead, quotes from the kicker ticker






Up to second place now. Top of the 3rd division table reads like Erich Mielke's worst nightmare

A mate asked me at half time if he should bet on Hansa to score the second goal and I was like "No way, they`ve been quite lucky and they haven`t gone up by two goals in ages". 10 minutes later he was fuming

Yeah, Magenta has the broadcasting rights for a few years now, I think it`s quite beneficial for them with many medium sized fanbases in 3.Liga. Sometimes regional channels are showing the matches as well but rarely the evening games.

 

[Blackwidow]

A mate asked me at half time if he should bet on Hansa to score the second goal and I was like "No way, they`ve been quite lucky and they haven`t gone up by two goals in ages". 10 minutes later he was fuming

Yeah, Magenta has the broadcasting rights for a few years now, I think it`s quite beneficial for them with many medium sized fanbases in 3.Liga. Sometimes regional channels are showing the matches as well but rarely the evening games.

Some of the games are broadcasted for foreign viewers on youtube, too. (you can watch that with a VPN)

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

Nagelsmann to Bayern will be surely confirmed in the next few weeks.

 

[Acrobat7]

Nagelsmann to Bayern will be surely confirmed in the next few weeks.

Why? Because they are second in the league?
Leipzig doesn’t need mone.

 

[Kasper]

Some of the games are broadcasted for foreign viewers on youtube, too. (you can watch that with a VPN)

That`s quite interesting and something I haven`t heard before. Is it streamed by MagentaTV on Youtube or by the DFL?

 

[Blackwidow]

That`s quite interesting and something I haven`t heard before. Is it streamed by MagentaTV on Youtube or by the DFL?

The channel is called "German football" - and it seems that the DFB or DFL is behind that
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7am34-1rGU_ky1vWYnoOJQ
But you need a proxy to watch from Germany (and to see the content of the channel...)

 

[ForEverEleven]

@Zehner How was Chicharito bad for us? Scored 17 league goals for us in his first season and single-handedly saved games. His second season was pretty bad, but who didn´t play like garbage at the time?

 

[Zehner]

@Zehner How was Chicharito bad for us? Scored 17 league goals for us in his first season and single-handedly saved games. His second season was pretty bad, but who didn´t play like garbage at the time?

He scored a goal every 158 minutes for us. That's average, especially when considering that he provided little to nothing outside of these goals. He wasn't good at pressing, he wasn't good with the ball at his feet nor with his back to goal.

Moreover, his goals weren't really evenly distributed. In his second season, he played 36 games for us but only scored in 9 or so. Even in his first year, he had 42 appearances and scored in 18 games. That would be a decent return if he was a player who contributed outside of it but he wasn't.

I think it's telling that we let him go after two years. And it's even more telling that he was atrocious ever since and didn't even score double digits once during those five seasons.

 

[do.ob]

Just three penalties in those goals as well. For that one year he was a fine player and his name and CV brought some attention to Leverkusen as well.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

Hansa will be the first German club to allow fans back into the stadium. Only 777 though.

 

[do.ob]

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If he's going to bring back Hummels and Müller anyway - and at least for Hummels, given that the depth of quality is much, much smaller in CB compared to the attack, there is absolutely no way around that - why waste three games to re-integrate them? Is he hoping that the games against Iceland, Romania and Nothern Macedonia will prove he can do it without them? Especially when you see Tah on that list.

And if you look at that entire squad, there is exactly one player who can be used in a holding role. Dahoud barely plays, let alone consistently well, for three years and gets two call-ups, but now that he's actually starting and delivering on a weekly basis, in a role where the squad is thin, he gets left out again. Forget about Dahoud, even if it's Weigl, Kramer or Rudy again. But what's the plan if Kimmich gets injured? Ginter it up, not giving a feck?

 

[stefan92]

But what's the plan if Kimmich gets injured? Ginter it up, not giving a feck?

Would not be surprised if Löw has some "genius" idea in that case like playing Havertz there or something similar. Lets just hope that the team is still good enough not to miss the World Cup, and stop watching the German national team until Löw is gone...

 

[Zehner]

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If he's going to bring back Hummels and Müller anyway - and at least for Hummels, given that the depth of quality is much, much smaller in CB compared to the attack, there is absolutely no way around that - why waste three games to re-integrate them? Is he hoping that the games against Iceland, Romania and Nothern Macedonia will prove he can do it without them? Especially when you see Tah on that list.

And if you look at that entire squad, there is exactly one player who can be used in a holding role. Dahoud barely plays, let alone consistently well, for three years and gets two call-ups, but now that he's actually starting and delivering on a weekly basis, in a role where the squad is thin, he gets left out again. Forget about Dahoud, even if it's Weigl, Kramer or Rudy again. But what's the plan if Kimmich gets injured? Ginter it up, not giving a feck?

Tah is playing quite well despite our bad patch of form. I'd say he deserves to be there as much as Ginter. In general, Rüdiger's resurrection under Tuchel as well as Tah finding form, Süle recovering from injury etc. could mean that Löw can indeed do without Hummels. I'm definitely less worried about our CBs than I was a few months ago. If it should come that way, however, it was again very bad communication by Löw. First more or less announcing their return and then taking a step back immediately after that would be very unnecessary.

But I also would've loved Dahoud in the squad. However, leaving out Kroos, Gündogan, Goretzka or Kimmich would also have been pretty dumb. Maybe he could've left Neuhaus at home.

I think we should just play Neuer and 10 midfielders before him. It's really insane how packed our center is. Could very well be the case that somebody like Brandt stays at home if he doesn't find his form.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Maybe he won't bring back Müller and Hummels after all?
Because yes, if they are coming back they should use every opportunity to train together.

 

[do.ob]

Tah is playing quite well despite our bad patch of form. I'd say he deserves to be there as much as Ginter. In general, Rüdiger's resurrection under Tuchel as well as Tah finding form, Süle recovering from injury etc. could mean that Löw can indeed do without Hummels. I'm definitely less worried about our CBs than I was a few months ago. If it should come that way, however, it was again very bad communication by Löw. First more or less announcing their return and then taking a step back immediately after that would be very unnecessary.

I'll admit that CBs, due to their often subtle influence on the game, can be hard to judge, but e.g. just in their last game I didn't like Tah at all: he set up Bielefeld's counter attack for the first goal and seemed fast asleep when his team almost got Schipplocked towards the end.
Süle has been called out publicly by his club, in '21 he has probably played more as Sülinho than as CB and it's unclear whether he will even start in the CL matches coming up. Rüdiger has looked decent under Tuchel, but for Löw he looked lost. Ginter simply doesn't have the talent of a top tier CB.
None of these players fill me with any confidence, some of them have the potential to play a good tournament, but they might just as easily cost their team games. And if Löw walks back his exclusion of Müller and Hummels via the press, only to conclude that he was wrong about doubting himself after beating three minnows, then I'm at a loss for words.

But I also would've loved Dahoud in the squad. However, leaving out Kroos, Gündogan, Goretzka or Kimmich would also have been pretty dumb. Maybe he could've left Neuhaus at home.

I don't want to harp on about Dahoud too specifically, because until recently he did nothing to get himself anywhere near the team. But I don't understand the logic of inviting players when they are out of form just to drop them when they (re-)gain it. I saw a Hertha fan feel the same about (not) nominating Stark. And when I look at that squad sheet it just smells of Löw thinking Kroos would be a viable alternative in Kimmich's role.

I think we should just play Neuer and 10 midfielders before him. It's really insane how packed our center is. Could very well be the case that somebody like Brandt stays at home if he doesn't find his form.

What do you mean someone like Brandt? The guy struggles to get past 17 year olds at Dortmund. Against Sevilla Terzic preferred to bring on Passlack or keep on using tired players rather than risk bringing on Brandt.

 

[strongwalker]

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If he's going to bring back Hummels and Müller anyway - and at least for Hummels, given that the depth of quality is much, much smaller in CB compared to the attack, there is absolutely no way around that - why waste three games to re-integrate them?

Realistically, Müller would be thrown into a team having Neuer, Süle, Kimmich, Kroos, Gnabry and Sane.. I guess he knows how they play :}

 

[do.ob]

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"Rangnick turns down Schalke: "I would have liked to have contributed (...). Unfortunately, due to the numerous imponderables within the club, I currently do not see myself in a position to take on the sporting responsibility at S04."

So after all the drama and intrigues around his potential appointment, all the anger and hopes from fans, the board eventually relenting and negotiating with him. He turns them down. Publicly.

This must feel like getting relegated a second time.

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Time to lay a cheeky bet on die Domstädter.

 

[Piratesoup]

What a fecking team goal that was.
2:0 after a deserved red card for Davies, odd game.

Edit: Make that 3:0. What the feck is going on?!

 

[JuliaScalaR]

Oh boy. Bayern is steamrolling Stuttgart while having to play with a player less.

 

[BayernFan87]

Bayern down to 10 men against Stuttgart (deserved red for Davies) with 3 goals in 6 minutes, insane haha.
Lewandowski now with 34 goals, only 6 left for Gerd Müllers "record for eternity".

 

[Harry190]

Stuttgart having the worst performance of a football team I've seen from a team in the past 10 years. Easily.

Against 10 men Bayern. Wretched.

It's all so easy for Bayern.

 

[Bole Top]

trully a turd. Stuttgart are 8th placed team ffs