https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ks-progress-not-cup-wins-ole-gunnar-solskjaer
I could swear I have heard that somewhere before, and then read some strong opinions on it.
Anyone want to explain themselves?
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Solskjaer: Winning trophies is more of an ego thing for managers, league position is where true progress is seen
- Thread starter Hansi Fick
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I could swear I have heard that somewhere before, and then read some strong opinions on it.
Anyone want to explain themselves?
He’ll get torn to shreds for this but it has an element of truth about it
Do we need a thread on this really? We are discussing Ole in the United forum.
Its a non story and very much accurate. Ask Liverpool fans.
Sounds like we finally got our own Poch!
I more of less posted this word for word as my opinion on it just the other day.
You have G Nev saying ‘WE MUST’ win a trophy and finish second this season.
Boll@x. A cup would be nice for everybody but it doesn’t guarantee that we’ve improved, league position does.
You have G Nev saying ‘WE MUST’ win a trophy and finish second this season.
Boll@x. A cup would be nice for everybody but it doesn’t guarantee that we’ve improved, league position does.
I think he's eluding to what Poch was referring to as well, when he was criticized for not fielding strong teams in Carabao cups and that.
Cups are not equal in weighting, so I think Ole is saying finishing 2nd is as important as a winning the Europa Cup. But obviously winning the Champions Leauge is more important than finishing 2nd.
Cups are not equal in weighting, so I think Ole is saying finishing 2nd is as important as a winning the Europa Cup. But obviously winning the Champions Leauge is more important than finishing 2nd.
Just you watch those who defended Poch for the exact same comments tear Ole a new one
I'm refering to this
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/a-serious-look-at-mauricio-pochettino.435511/page-144#post-23621428
and the following pages
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/a-serious-look-at-mauricio-pochettino.435511/page-144#post-23621428
and the following pages
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Wasn’t the criticism of Poch that he hadn’t won anything?
in essence he’s right.
you are a better team if you finish second and win nothing than if you finish 5th and win cups.
however, it only works as part of the bigger picture. It’s how you judge progress of a team, who wants to get back to challenging, and winning the league.
finishing 2nd is part of the journey, not the destination.
you are a better team if you finish second and win nothing than if you finish 5th and win cups.
however, it only works as part of the bigger picture. It’s how you judge progress of a team, who wants to get back to challenging, and winning the league.
finishing 2nd is part of the journey, not the destination.
Can the Bayern fan at least spell the Man United manager's name properly?
So if we finish third then there has been no progress and if we finish second progress.
So you're just being a WUM then?I'm refering to this
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/a-serious-look-at-mauricio-pochettino.435511/page-144#post-23621428
and the following pages
Hes right. You can fluke cup wins. Consistency is always the barometer.
That would be logical
I do sincerely apologize. I did look at it thrice and decided it was correct, it wasn't.
There was a time when managers words were taken exactly for what they are - words designed to take the pressure off or motivated their squad.
It seems nowadays, their words are taken as gospel and used to judge their character.
It seems nowadays, their words are taken as gospel and used to judge their character.
It's not my problem if you're easily offended.
He's obviously right.
But people will interpret the statement as: "We don't have to win trophies".
But people will interpret the statement as: "We don't have to win trophies".
Small time mentality?
I'd say easily bored more so
Another WUM
Yes, I posted about this in the presser thread. Pretty funny who word to word to exactly similar quote by Poch who we all mocked for not having winning mentality (and I think both are daft comments).
Interesting to see how others will try to paint both quotes different.
Interesting to see how others will try to paint both quotes different.
Watch the rest of the Bundesliga mob arrive in this thread any moment now.
the over analysis is pretty boring, and a massive distraction.
100%. League position is always the true barometer of a team. If you’re consistently fighting for a league title the cup trophies will come anyway.
Sound more like easily offended to me, but let's agree to disagree.
Winning a trophy is like reaching and getting out of a tunnel.
Finishing second is like seeing the light but never getting out of the tunnel.
Finishing second is like seeing the light but never getting out of the tunnel.
Winning tophies is in general terms the most important thing, as I think Solskjaer implied.
However, if you're looking at it strictly in terms of how a team is progressing then league position probably is the better and more consistent indicator, as teams who will prove to be poorer in the longer term can nonetheless go on better cup runs.
Even that isn't perfect though. For example, in the 17/18 season we finished 2nd under Mourinho while Liverpool finished 4th, yet we still had people (rightly) arguing that they were showing more signs of progress based on their style of play and performances, with those performances also taking them to a CL final. In that case judging the progress of the two teams based solely on league position would have been misleading.
However, if you're looking at it strictly in terms of how a team is progressing then league position probably is the better and more consistent indicator, as teams who will prove to be poorer in the longer term can nonetheless go on better cup runs.
Even that isn't perfect though. For example, in the 17/18 season we finished 2nd under Mourinho while Liverpool finished 4th, yet we still had people (rightly) arguing that they were showing more signs of progress based on their style of play and performances, with those performances also taking them to a CL final. In that case judging the progress of the two teams based solely on league position would have been misleading.
Explain what? Not wanting Pochettino?
Thank you for your constructive reply.
Depends on what the end goal is and more importantly whether you think the person incharge can eventually see it through.
If you genuinely believe Ole can eventually win the league and challenge for CL then yeah it's progress (if you finish 2nd which in itself is by no means a given), if you think this current level is his ceiling then you may aswell priotise the cups.
If you genuinely believe Ole can eventually win the league and challenge for CL then yeah it's progress (if you finish 2nd which in itself is by no means a given), if you think this current level is his ceiling then you may aswell priotise the cups.
Would you take finishing second for 3 years in a row without a trophy, or finishing 3rd or 4th for 3 years but with a couple of EL cups?
He said winning trophies is important and players have to cope with the pressure and expectations. He even said about prioritising games, sacrificing league position for cup run. It's just people take everything out of context. What he said is true. League is always the biggest test and shows consistency and progress.
Only if you consider Spurs under Poch and United under Ole teams with the same level of potential surely?
I believe he was misquoted anyway but we need to stop immediately turning every thread an Ole versus {insert manager here}, even if the OP was a bit baity in how they did it. I don't really care what Ole says as long as we win things - top four looks safe now the buffer to fifth is padded out so I hope we try for the FA cup at least. Not bothered about the EL. I'd rather top four and see really good attacking football above both though!
We got rid of the Liverpool fans this season but the Bundesliga fans have decided to take their place as resident pests.
Oh no Ole, what have you done?
Pretty sure players want to win trophies in their career. They dont care about their managers, its for them
That is absolutely true in general.
But in this particular case, what he says can be taken as gospel: he recognizes a basic truth, namely that winning the odd cup is not proof that we're back where we want to be.
People will misinterpret his words, though - whether deliberately or not. But what he actually says is pretty clear.