Where's the FLAW? System or Coaching?

[OleTheGreat]

We have watched countless interviews of Ole in which he mentions that he likes the United teams which always overruns their opponents and I think that's unnecessary in the modern day. If we watched the best teams in the world today, speaking about the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, City; they like to make the ball do all the running and station players in the right areas. Are we still stuck up with a coach in Ole who's been a part of the SAF era where we actually played the counter attack system (4-4-2). We actually still kind of play the same system in 4-2-2-1-1 with 2 wide players and Bruno right behind the striker. We are really poor in possession and struggle to get going when teams actually sit back and let us have possession. We also seem to struggle against teams who actually hog the ball. We really can't get going until we are pushed against the wall.

This team actually has problems all over the pitch, Henderson has been better in distributing the ball but when he fumbles, nobody actually cover up. De Gea cannot actually put the ball into out players feet where it could lead to an attack and comes under huge pressure. Our defense is too slow to bring out the ball. When most people say 2 steps forward 1 step back it actually makes sense within the team. Maguire to Shaw, Shaw to Rashford who plays it back to Maguire and the process repeats. While on the right side, Bissaka to James and he often runs inwards but if it is Greenwood on the right, the ball is usually played back to Lindelof or one of Mctominay or Fred.

Our defensive midfielders are just so static and mostly clinging to the center backs. Mctominay is very limited and so is Fred. They cannot actually carry the ball forward and are often caught on the ball. They're both wonderful defensively but that's not how United should play, is it?! Their passes are often strayed or the weight of pass is inaccurate.

Let's delve into the hole that is our forwards now. Rashford has done well in a few games but I think he can do a lot lot more than he thinks. He runs into the defensive without actually thinking ahead so many times. His recycling is awful. Shaw outruns him into empty spaces more times than not. Cavani has been a delight sometimes but even he cannot get this forward line together like Zlatan could. Bruno has been a brilliant addition to this team but the man just cannot hold on to the ball for one sec, I should think he should be the only player in the team who should be allowed a second touch on the ball because every time he moves with the ball, he does things that befuddles the opponents. He just tries to move the ball as fast as possible and I can honestly say that nobody in that forward line can actually read his passes and often run elsewhere.

MY BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH THIS TEAM: FIRST TOUCH AND ONE TOUCH PASSING!! Awful Awful. Martial has been utterly useless this season, a player with such great potential but something hasn't worked for him and his form's gone down south. Except for defense where also we need a Left footed CB, we have players all over the pitch who are actually playing out of position but that's the modern game and players are used to playing in various positions. Ole however hasn't really put a plan in place and he is just taking the flow. I know some of us on the Caf might think I'm overreacting because we've scored more goals than previous seasons and that we are second in the league but I personally haven't felt like we're the second best team in the league.

Also I'm in no way criticizing the players for not making an effort because that isn't the problem, I think the problems are with the coaching and a certain way of doing things on the pitch. Critical I'm too much of this team but I think this team is capable of a lot more than it is showing and it has world class players who are underperforming for some reason. I just cannot wrap my head around that. Ole is amazing with the players and the staff and also with the fans but unless we back him in the summer, I think he shouldn't sign a new contract but what can he do. He's in a coveted position and the Glazers and Woodward have managed to find a puppet who will do as they say. Creating those 2 positions for Murtough and Fletcher within the United ranks is a scam and I'm not falling for it until we actually sign players who can make a difference in this team.

Every die hard United fan knows what this team needs, how will the higher authorities not know about it! Do something or we're doomed to watch the slow, snail pace football for a long long time.

 

[BehemothTerror]

I'd lean more towards the system at the moment but that's only because we lack the personnel to properly play a 4-2-3-1. The biggest issue are our well known problems at CDM and on the right flank however CDM/DM is more of a pressing issue given Greenwood/Pellestri/Diallo are being worked on the right.

CDM is a problem because non of the players we put there have the required level needed to start week in week out.
Fred is tenacious, has good mobility and a great presser but is technically not suited the play out from the back and multiple times this season has cost us goals due to hairbrained errors in passing or conceding stupid fouls right outside our box. He also lacks the height needed to help out defensively.
McTom is arguably the best all rounder and is capable of a decent passing range while having the required psychically but is prone to lapses in judgement and needs to find another level if he wants to be anything more than a squad player
Matic 5-6 years ago would have been perfect and is capable of putting in good perfomances, however he's mobility is really poor and he's prone to being static with his passing and positioning. He's still the best passer of the three when on form and definitely is the best in defensive output.
Pogda simply is wasted as a DM or CDM.

Ideally we need to invest here in the summer. The only question is if we go for more of a destroyer and upgrade Fred or if we go for more of a deep playmaker in the Carrick/Pirlo mode. I'd look for more of a Deep playmaker as our transitions are our biggest problem at the moment. We need someone who can patrol the line in front of the defence but when the ball breaks can quickly move the ball up the field to or attacking threats, and someone who is equally comfortable moving up slightly to open passing lanes in the opposition side of the pitch. We've seen it too many times in the last few years when we get the ball we take too long to get it upfeild which allows teams to just sit in a low block. Considering the pace we have upfront it makes no sense for us to play a probing game when slicker passing in the middle would get better results against most teams in the division

I will cede finding the right player for a Deep Laying playmaker is easier said than done though.

 

[Ali Dia]

Recruitment and our random approach to it is the main thing that has and currently is holding us back.

 

[Leftback99]

Players

 

[Smores]

Referring specifically to the issues you're talking about it's the system. We take ages to get the ball out because our setup is expansive with a lack players making themselves available. Cavani when he was playing helped because he provided an extra number deep in the initial build up.

I mean if we had a Carrick to ping long balls then fine but we don't and he didn't play like that anyway.

Personally i think we need our wide men to be a bit narrower and for Bruno to come deeper to link up the ball.

 

[charlenefan]

Players

this

 

[Andersons Dietician]

It’s just a bit of everything. The way we play, and players just Not either being good enough to make the right decisions and execute them, or them not being instructed to do certain things. I think last year post lockdown Ole did stumble on something and it seemed there was method to how we were playing. Now however it just seems lifeless and void of any real soul or invention. Players not working for each other or simply just not knowing what they are supposed to be doing.

I do find it hard to believe that a player could get to this level in the game and not perform basic fundamentals of strategy or tactics so surely it has to come down to execution. I feel as well, that we could be a decent cup competition team just due to maybe better sides allowing more space but we’ll never win a league playing this version of counter attacking football with the Players in the squad.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I do find it hard to believe that a player could get to this level in the game and not perform basic fundamentals of strategy or tactics so surely it has to come down to execution.

I think there's a good amount of burn out affecting the squad. The schedule has been gruelling and from my own experience in this pandemic it is hard to keep focused and motivated all the time in your work.

 

[Tallis]

I don’t think we are re as bad as your post seems to suggest for the reader. Not to say that there isn’t some truth in the things you outline.

If Martial had continued the way he played last season and if Pogba hadn’t had his fitness issues, we would have won a lot more matches. But even then, I don’t think the current squad has enough fire power to win consistently enough to win big prizes.

 

[croadyman]

One of the most frustrating parts about this team is that they are far too static, can't remember the last time I saw some serious off the ball movement from our midfield or forwards

 

[Golden Nugget]

Players

I ask myself this all the time - is it the players or is it the coaching? Most of the time the answer is that it’s both, but realistically, outside of video games, how well do you rate our squad and players?

Player bashing threads appear after every game and yes there’s many Ole bashing ones too - but judging our squad, how many would make it into City’s team? Or Liverpool’s? We’re second in the league right now - do we have the second best squad in the league? I don’t think so - we’d be 3rd/4th - so Ole’s doing well.

Can there be improvements? Definitely - Leicester don’t have the 3rd best squad in the league - so Rodgers is obviously doing a fantastic job - but I think it’s also unfair on Ole given United’s schedule this year. I can’t remember where I read or heard it, but all the training sessions have been about recovery as the games are so packed - so it makes it harder to practice and train new tactics.

 

[Canucantona20]

There’s issues in the squad that need to be addressed to take us to the next level.

1.Defensive Midfielder- United are missing a defensive midfielder that is great on the ball to get us out of the press. Matic is our best option but he’s too slow. McFred are both not good enough in order to play out from the back.
2. A proper 9 - currently we do not have a proven goal scorer or someone who can hold the ball up against premiership CB’s. Relying on Greenwood who to his credit is a good player but still is developing is not the best.
3. Style of play - For some reason we have players in our team that want to play the risky pass too often. Bruno is capable of this too often trying the Hollywood pass all the time when it doesn’t work.
4. Injuries/Fatigue- We consistently lose players at the most crucial times of the season. Losing Pogba too injury hurt and you can see the results after he went down we could not break down teams which lead to draws

 

[RashyForPM]

System is fine. Players are finally played in their right positions these days, and we have an identity now - quick, creative play flowing through Bruno against lesser teams, and rapid counter attacks against top teams.

Problem is personnel, including McFred, Lindelof and any striker we’ve used this season. These guys will never start for a title winning team. Coaching is definitely a problem too - lesser teams simply need a good defensive shape against us. If they have that, we are absolutely clueless most of the time and cannot impose our quick, direct passing style on the game.

 

[Womp]

Not sure how you can purely blame the players when there are teams with far less talent than ourselves playing better football, just without the talent to obviously turn those performances into wins as often.

It's an excuse to cover up the main problem, imo. Is this squad good enough to consistently win major trophies? I don't think so, no. Is it better than the football we have consistently played for years now? Absolutely.

It's really no surprise players join us and don't look as good, players leave us and can perform. Bench players come on and look just as clueless at times as the first Xi, just without the ability to make the difference as often.

There are issues with both recruitment and coaching, both need to be improved on significantly before I see us back to the top of the pack consistently

 

[Samrat Mazumdar]

I believe it is a bit of both. While Ole's coaching credentials are questionable, his support staff also does not really inspire awe especially as ex- players or with some solid experience/ badges behind them. Having said that, on the pitch it is the players who need to perform, whether it is sticking to a plan, transitioning or simply put in their complete effort as talented and overpaid sports professionals. Pep, Klopp, even Mourinho all came through some grinding coaching schedules which honestly, Ole does not and will never have. Even after United, his best decent chance would be national coach of Norway and that is where his upper level is. Adding to that, the footballing men in the management are anything but that, and that compounds the misery right from transfers, contract negotiations, scouting everything

 

[Andycoleno9]

Leeds, Leicester and lots of teams play attacking football with having worse players than us.
People really underestimate role of a manager these days. Not talking about Ole right now, i am talking in general. Some people think that manager picks starting 11, put them in some formation and that is it.

 

[SeanyC]

I think a lot of this is on the players, he continues to play McTom and Fred in games where he doesn’t need to, based purely on trust as he doesn’t trust Matic or VDB right now. He needs to get a better DCM, maybe even two due to Matic ready to pack it in, one that has skill, Vision and and bit of muscle about them.

That way it allows our lads in front lead by Bruno and Pogba to attack better, and not constantly doing counters either.

 

[Tarrou]

the results are not too bad, considering where we came from.. its the style of play that most are not happy with

as much as I like Fred and McT they are not a good midfield for controlling the ball and passing

Pogba is hit and miss and Matic is past it

tldr the midfield

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I don't get how some United fans will continue to go on about players being the main problem.

We literally had the best manager ever at maximizing a team and people still downplay what a manager can do.

There's inferior teams in the league playing more cohesive football than us, but they'll conveniently ignore that.

 

[OleBoiii]

Our system is not that hard to understand. It's a system of adaptability. It's similar to Fergie's style, though obviously not as good. What does that mean? High line and attacking against weaker teams, creative/adaptable against teams that are stronger or of equal strength. Against stronger teams this will typically mean a more counter-attacking style. Against teams of equal strength this is not always the answer, and thus we never really know exactly what to expect. Often ugly stalemates, which isn't really that different from under Fergie either. The entertainment value comes from the rivalry and hard tackles, rather than the football on display. These days the rivalries are not as heated and the players are more protected, so some of the entertainment value is lost in the low-scoring games.

I don't like the idea that only some systems work. That's bullshit. Fergie, Mourinho, Pep and Klopp are very different, but they've all been very successful. There is no "one size fits all" in football, and people need to stop thinking that there is.

A good rule of thumb when your coach is of the adaptable kind: losses/draws against weaker teams that sit deep are generally not an example of system failure or poor tactics. It's the players' inability to create and score. In some cases it's a mentality issue, in other cases it's just lack of quality. In our case it seems to be the latter. Throw prime Carrick and RVP into this team and we're probably close to City. Maybe even in first place.

TLDR; it's definitely not the system. And 90% of the time it does not seem to be the coaching either. Which means... Get a top class goalscorer and a DM.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

In-game tactics are poor.
Squad management is poor.
Coaching of players must be bad when we keep falling to ‘low block teams’.
Over reliance on one player as our tactics. When he doesnt play well we struggle. If hes out the team we struggle. When hes man marked we struggle. Hes literally the only reason Ole is still in a job. Had OT been full this season I think we would be looking at a different manager option come end of the season.
I loved Ole as a player love him as a guy. I was always an Ole never in, but id love him to succeed big time. One of two things should happen imo, we get rid of him and get a whole new management team in (unlikely) or Ole replaces his coaches. Its glaringly obvious he needs help.

 

[MZX7]

I'd lean more towards the system at the moment but that's only because we lack the personnel to properly play a 4-2-3-1. The biggest issue are our well known problems at CDM and on the right flank however CDM/DM is more of a pressing issue given Greenwood/Pellestri/Diallo are being worked on the right.

CDM is a problem because non of the players we put there have the required level needed to start week in week out.
Fred is tenacious, has good mobility and a great presser but is technically not suited the play out from the back and multiple times this season has cost us goals due to hairbrained errors in passing or conceding stupid fouls right outside our box. He also lacks the height needed to help out defensively.
McTom is arguably the best all rounder and is capable of a decent passing range while having the required psychically but is prone to lapses in judgement and needs to find another level if he wants to be anything more than a squad player
Matic 5-6 years ago would have been perfect and is capable of putting in good perfomances, however he's mobility is really poor and he's prone to being static with his passing and positioning. He's still the best passer of the three when on form and definitely is the best in defensive output.
Pogda simply is wasted as a DM or CDM.

Ideally we need to invest here in the summer. The only question is if we go for more of a destroyer and upgrade Fred or if we go for more of a deep playmaker in the Carrick/Pirlo mode. I'd look for more of a Deep playmaker as our transitions are our biggest problem at the moment. We need someone who can patrol the line in front of the defence but when the ball breaks can quickly move the ball up the field to or attacking threats, and someone who is equally comfortable moving up slightly to open passing lanes in the opposition side of the pitch. We've seen it too many times in the last few years when we get the ball we take too long to get it upfeild which allows teams to just sit in a low block. Considering the pace we have upfront it makes no sense for us to play a probing game when slicker passing in the middle would get better results against most teams in the division

I will cede finding the right player for a Deep Laying playmaker is easier said than done though.

We need someone like Xavi.

Xavi - Bruno - Pogba midfield

 

[mariachi-19]

I think there's a good amount of burn out affecting the squad. The schedule has been gruelling and from my own experience in this pandemic it is hard to keep focused and motivated all the time in your work.

This is the sensible and logical approach but doesn’t allow warriors to post paragraphs of shit justifying their nonsensical posts.

Because if they opened their eyes they would see the same issues affecting every other team that isn’t Manchester city who have a full second IX that would probably get top four in the premier league.

players have virtually not stopped since June last year. Players are tired...

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We are a tactically basic football team. I hoped that in LVG we'd have a manager who would expand and develop us as a cohesive unit but he was too far off his prime. The subsequent appointments were never going to bring in the revolution needed.

 

[Norman Brownbutter]

Coaching. Asking our players to play out from the back is idiotic, when they cant pass the ball well under pressure. Its even more idiotic when our strength is fast counter attacking. Why insist on playing out from the back, when a quick through ball will unleash our attack while their players are committed forward?

In any case, our passing ability has been woeful for years. We do a lot of short backwards and sideways passes that hides a lot of the mistakes and inaccurate passes going forward. Maybe the thought process is that we shouldnt have to train passing because its part of the basics. But even the basics can turn to shit if you dont practice.

And if the excuse is going to be "the players are tired", then maybe the coach shouldnt be running plays that forces them to move more than they need. Or that maybe, just maybe he should be rotating the squad out a bit more. Even if the 2nd string isnt as good as the 1st, they are still better than a fecked 1st string.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Recruitment and our random approach to it is the main thing that has and currently is holding us back.

I”m assuming you are talking about the recruitment before Ole took charge,because our recruitment has improved significantly in these last 2 seasons.In my opinion we are 1 good summer transfer window away from havint a squad that can potentially compete for the league...But I”m not sure if Woodward and the owners are willing to take the bull by the horns this summer.I”m not sure if they have the desire or the intent to take us back to the top...,If we finish in the top 4 again,then we may have to endure another summer of relative transfer inactivity....

 

[Trex]

It's down to the technical quality of our players, how many of them actual fancy receiving the ball to feet, Maguire, Shaw, Bruno, Martial, Greenwood, Pogba, Matic, Bailly not including Lindelof because he tend to look scared even though he tends to have the necessary technical level. In so many games we tend to start the McFred midfield pivot, its simply not good enough for a team who wants to be a front footed side, they simply don't have the required technical level, this leads to the whole team lacking any rhythm in their play, it most be frustrating in attack with this two players being the supply, it also very difficult for the center backs who I think are good enough technically to play with this guys in front of them while trying to play out from the back knowing they have to select the passes they give to the midfielders.
It's not Oles fault either because I he was obviously counting on Pogba being fit to at least stick him in there with one of the duo, his only other option is to play Dvb who at the moment is still struggling to get used to the nature of the EPL.
Another Flaw we have is sticking two wide strikers on either flank, which influences our ability to play with any rhythm, you look at City right flank and it mostly B.silva or Mahrez players who have playmaking qualities to support the midfield, Greenwood and Rashford care very much about their goal tally this influence their positioning and decision making on the ball, affecting the flow of our play. Remember when Bruno freshly arrived and Ole was utilizing Mata on the right, remember their link up play, we'll see more of that from Bruno if we don't play him with 3 strikers in front and two technically limited midfielders behind.
For all the talk of buying a new striker I think getting a DM with the required technical level would be very important next season, hopefully Pogba would stay and stay fit and Vdb would come good. another position am looking out for is a winger, a more creative link up player player that can play either flank in place of either Rashford or Greenwood (it's quite possible the plan it's to utilize Diallo and Pellisri, I like them stylistically). Hopefully our Midfield Would be Pogba +new DM with Dvb and Mctominay as backup, we could then promote Hannibal into the first team as Bruno back up. Our wing option would be Rashford + new right winger say Sancho backed up by Pellistri and Diallo.

Starting line up could hypothetically be:
Martial
Rashford Bruno Neto
Pogba Llorente
Shaw Torres Maguire Awb

Backed up by
Greenwood
Pellistri Hannibal Diallo
Dvb mctominay
Telles Tuanzebe Lindelof Dalot

Surplus to requirement: Fred, James, Bailly ( he won't be getting the game time he is demanding), Matic.
By doing this we would have the necessary dynamics to play proper football.

 

[Zlatans Knee]

Seriously? Another one of these? We have some players consistently starting for us that would not get near the starting 11 for other top 6 teams. It is so painfully obvious to most that we need a classy CDM, a right winger and a good striker.
Until we fix the personnel then we can’t change the style of our play.

 

[r0663664]

Ole is here for more 2 years. A great manager would utilise what he has and play a formation that is suitable for the team. Ole had 5 transfer window to address issues and also sell players deem surplus. I just don’t think he has any excuses of this boring football that we are playing. Glazers will offer him a new contract and Ole will sign it. If we are lucky, we finish top 4. I don’t see us winning trophies. City will battle Liverpool and Chelsea for premier league and champion league. Chelsea has a talented squad and Tuchel will bring them to the next level. Klopp can bring the best out of Liverpool. Pep has everything to be successful. Utd has owners who are happy with top 4. I am not a happy fan of how we have fallen since Glazers took over.

 

[Mickson]

Seriously? Another one of these? We have some players consistently starting for us that would not get near the starting 11 for other top 6 teams. It is so painfully obvious to most that we need a classy CDM, a right winger and a good striker.
Until we fix the personnel then we can’t change the style of our play.

What? Tuchel, Rodgers, Bielsa, Potter, and Parker are only a few of all the managers who have changed their team's style without buying a new first-team eleven and doing so in less time than Ole.

I think our squad is good, could be better, and could be worse. But generally a good squad with a bright future. I think some fans still hope and pray that we will win and be successful again, however, I can't see us being it with these owners, with Woodward, and not with Solskjaer as a manager either. I know it's hard, but I think some fans need to be realistic with this. It makes me sad to think about it though. I feel trapped. Some kind of hopelessness. We've been here too long and I'm afraid it will continue until we do something drastic.

 

[Polar]

We have watched countless interviews of Ole in which he mentions that he likes the United teams which always overruns their opponents and I think that's unnecessary in the modern day. If we watched the best teams in the world today, speaking about the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, City; they like to make the ball do all the running and station players in the right areas. Are we still stuck up with a coach in Ole who's been a part of the SAF era where we actually played the counter attack system (4-4-2). We actually still kind of play the same system in 4-2-2-1-1 with 2 wide players and Bruno right behind the striker. We are really poor in possession and struggle to get going when teams actually sit back and let us have possession. We also seem to struggle against teams who actually hog the ball. We really can't get going until we are pushed against the wall.

This team actually has problems all over the pitch, Henderson has been better in distributing the ball but when he fumbles, nobody actually cover up. De Gea cannot actually put the ball into out players feet where it could lead to an attack and comes under huge pressure. Our defense is too slow to bring out the ball. When most people say 2 steps forward 1 step back it actually makes sense within the team. Maguire to Shaw, Shaw to Rashford who plays it back to Maguire and the process repeats. While on the right side, Bissaka to James and he often runs inwards but if it is Greenwood on the right, the ball is usually played back to Lindelof or one of Mctominay or Fred.

Our defensive midfielders are just so static and mostly clinging to the center backs. Mctominay is very limited and so is Fred. They cannot actually carry the ball forward and are often caught on the ball. They're both wonderful defensively but that's not how United should play, is it?! Their passes are often strayed or the weight of pass is inaccurate.

Let's delve into the hole that is our forwards now. Rashford has done well in a few games but I think he can do a lot lot more than he thinks. He runs into the defensive without actually thinking ahead so many times. His recycling is awful. Shaw outruns him into empty spaces more times than not. Cavani has been a delight sometimes but even he cannot get this forward line together like Zlatan could. Bruno has been a brilliant addition to this team but the man just cannot hold on to the ball for one sec, I should think he should be the only player in the team who should be allowed a second touch on the ball because every time he moves with the ball, he does things that befuddles the opponents. He just tries to move the ball as fast as possible and I can honestly say that nobody in that forward line can actually read his passes and often run elsewhere.

MY BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH THIS TEAM: FIRST TOUCH AND ONE TOUCH PASSING!! Awful Awful. Martial has been utterly useless this season, a player with such great potential but something hasn't worked for him and his form's gone down south. Except for defense where also we need a Left footed CB, we have players all over the pitch who are actually playing out of position but that's the modern game and players are used to playing in various positions. Ole however hasn't really put a plan in place and he is just taking the flow. I know some of us on the Caf might think I'm overreacting because we've scored more goals than previous seasons and that we are second in the league but I personally haven't felt like we're the second best team in the league.

Also I'm in no way criticizing the players for not making an effort because that isn't the problem, I think the problems are with the coaching and a certain way of doing things on the pitch. Critical I'm too much of this team but I think this team is capable of a lot more than it is showing and it has world class players who are underperforming for some reason. I just cannot wrap my head around that. Ole is amazing with the players and the staff and also with the fans but unless we back him in the summer, I think he shouldn't sign a new contract but what can he do. He's in a coveted position and the Glazers and Woodward have managed to find a puppet who will do as they say. Creating those 2 positions for Murtough and Fletcher within the United ranks is a scam and I'm not falling for it until we actually sign players who can make a difference in this team.

Every die hard United fan knows what this team needs, how will the higher authorities not know about it! Do something or we're doomed to watch the slow, snail pace football for a long long time.

You have very good points, but sometimes take it to far. I think you are to critical and I don’t agree with everything.

I think it’s no wrong having ambition to never be overrun by the opponent and be on of the fittest team in the world. Bayern M is one good example of a team who never will be the most technical team in the world, but have other extreme strengths.

Neither United or perhaps any British team with a British fundament is able to compete “technically” with RM, Barca and PSG. The exception is probably a team spending astronomic money on the transfer market (City). United will never be run by like City.

Don’t think we have serious problems all over the pitch. Henderson and our defence is pretty competitive to any teams in the world.

I completely agree our midtfield is to static and our one and two touch passing is to bad. These two elements off course strongly cohere. Ole’s emphasis on defensive stability affects our offensive play. I don’t think this will be sorted out as long as we play both Fred and McT.

I still think it’s an good idea to first empathise or fix defensive stability even though it’s a little bit boring. Isn’t a golden rule to build up a team from behind?

Off course the fact that Pogba has been injured a lot this year has made things worse. If he played regularly this season I’m sure our pattern would have looked differently. Pogba have to play regularly over time in order to put a great footprint on our play. Efficient or intuitive interactions doesn’t happen after one game here and there.

My conclusion is that our problems is more a result of lacking Pogba and another high class midfielder.

Our system also affects our offensive play, but it’s more understandable because what I’ve already explained: defensive stability has been a priority.

I don’t think coaching is the problem!

 

[Zlatans Knee]

What? Tuchel, Rodgers, Bielsa, Potter, and Parker are only a few of all the managers who have changed their team's style without buying a new first-team eleven and doing so in less time than Ole.

I think our squad is good, could be better, and could be worse. But generally a good squad with a bright future. I think some fans still hope and pray that we will win and be successful again, however, I can't see us being it with these owners, with Woodward, and not with Solskjaer as a manager either. I know it's hard, but I think some fans need to be realistic with this. It makes me sad to think about it though. I feel trapped. Some kind of hopelessness. We've been here too long and I'm afraid it will continue until we do something drastic.

Tuchel has inherited an underperforming, star-studded squad. The others you mentioned play pretty football but are miles behind us in the league so are not really a good point of reference. Our recruitment has been appalling for so long now, apart from Bruno I don’t think we can say that any of the players we have signed in the past few years have proven to be value for money.
If you are going to compare with anyone I would have picked Brendan Rogers. They have built a great team again and play good football. But the key to me is getting the right players there in the first place.

 

[Mickson]

You have very good points, but sometimes take it to far. I think you are to critical and I don’t agree with everything.

I think it’s no wrong having ambition to never be overrun by the opponent and be on of the fittest team in the world. Bayern M is one good example of a team who never will be the most technical team in the world, but have other extreme strengths.

Neither United or perhaps any British team with a British fundament is able to compete “technically” with RM, Barca and PSG. The exception is probably a team spending astronomic money on the transfer market (City). United will never be run by like City.

Don’t think we have serious problems all over the pitch. Henderson and our defence is pretty competitive to any teams in the world.

I completely agree our midtfield is to static and our one and two touch passing is to bad. These two elements off course strongly cohere. Ole’s emphasis on defensive stability affects our offensive play. I don’t think this will be sorted out as long as we play both Fred and McT.

I still think it’s an good idea to first empathise or fix defensive stability even though it’s a little bit boring. Isn’t a golden rule to build up a team from behind?

Off course the fact that Pogba has been injured a lot this year has made things worse. If he played regularly this season I’m sure our pattern would have looked differently. Pogba have to play regularly over time in order to put a great footprint on our play. Efficient or intuitive interactions doesn’t happen after one game here and there.

My conclusion is that our problems is more a result of lacking Pogba and another high class midfielder.

Our system also affects our offensive play, but it’s more understandable because what I’ve already explained: defensive stability has been a priority.

I don’t think coaching is the problem!

You said we can't change the style of play, we very much can because I just gave several examples of managers who have done that, with minimal resources too. I'm pretty certain that Ole wouldn't do a better job than Bielsa, Potter, and Rodgers with their squad and resources. That tells you something. Regardless of players, Ole needs to do more coaching-wise. Or as Fergie did, bring in coaches who can do it for him.

 

[NZT-One]

Tuchel has inherited an underperforming, star-studded squad. The others you mentioned play pretty football but are miles behind us in the league so are not really a good point of reference. Our recruitment has been appalling for so long now, apart from Bruno I don’t think we can say that any of the players we have signed in the past few years have proven to be value for money.
If you are going to compare with anyone I would have picked Brendan Rogers. They have built a great team again and play good football. But the key to me is getting the right players there in the first place.

And how do you determine, what is "the right player"? I think, that's one of the key distinctions here. For me there are two ways: go for good players and try to integrate them in your team (let's call it the Galactico approach) or set a specific system (formation, way of playing, specific roles and tasks for players) and bring players in, that fit the profile (call it system-driven approach). Both have their merits and it depends on the situation you are in as a manager, which way to choose because it seems more favourable.

In our current situation, it feels like we're kind of on a Galactico approach, seeing DVB arrive, bringing Maguire and then talk Upamecano, talks about Ismaila Sarr and Jack Grealish. All are good players but very different. Even with Bruno I feel, he got all the freedom to play his game at United which is one of the explanations for his fantastic return. This is an alright approach but sometimes it doesn't feel very sophisticated.

In the long run, that is going to be problematic (in my eyes) that is why I'd be leaning more to a more systematic approach, setting up specific roles and tasks to then analyze players skillsets and how they would fit into the team. I also think, this will make bringing new players in easier, because they don't have to play 100 matches first to understand how the team and their teammates works in specific situations because you already know the plans and patterns and you just have to recognize it on the field.

 

[Xaviboy]

Our problem is we don't have more Brunos in our team. When he doesn't play or not in form we are crap. We need 2 more players like him in midfield or attack especially if Ole is the manager. He isn't going to make us a well coached side where we can win games or break down teams as a unit.

 

[Foxbatt]

It's as some others have said, lack of movement. Ball should not be played to the feet of static players. They should be played to the space the receiving player should be moving into.
Players may not be able to pull off world class passes all the time or even control the ball well all the time but surely if they can run, they should be able to move without the ball if they are coached well.
When AWB has the ball on the right, he has to either pass it down the line( which can be blocked) or play it infield to Bruno or pass it back to Lindelof or square it to either McTominay or Fred. The area Bruno vacates in the inside right position is not filled and leaves a gap. Neither Fred or Martial at CF moves in there.
Then if it goes to McTominay in the DM position it gets stuck there or goes wide to Shaw and it just travel on the same line. This is because none of the midfield players setup into space. Martial doesn't move and neither does any of our forwards apart from Cavani.
McTominay doesn't know how to get into space. We are not so bad when we don't have the ball. Our problem starts when we have the ball.

 

[NZT-One]

You said we can't change the style of play, we very much can because I just gave several examples of managers who have done that, with minimal resources too. I'm pretty certain that Ole wouldn't do a better job than Bielsa, Potter, and Rodgers with their squad and resources. That tells you something. Regardless of players, Ole needs to do more coaching-wise. Or as Fergie did, bring in coaches who can do it for him.

100% agree with that notion.

To answer the question of the OP: Due to the term system not being defined, it is tricky to answer the question. For my definition of system, I lean more to coaching being the bigger flaw currently.
A system for me is the formation, a standard way of approaching defense (press or contain, deep or high), a standard way of approaching offense (crosses, quick-passing, freeflowing positions) and some key strategies regarding risk taking, approach while having the ball (ball recycling and possession or quick transition) and while not having the ball (high press, mid press, low press, initial press, tactical fouls etc).
I think we have all that set quite alright. It is a basic formula that works quite well, evidenced by the very positive results.

I would like to approach the term coaching with a new perspective: give the players guidance and tools to perform their roles. I think we lack that seeing that we so often have to look where players are positioned before we make a pass. That often kills momentum. The lack of movement could be connected to players not knowing what i.e. Dan James will try to do if he gets into promising positions (how often did we see him or for example the fullbacks putting good balls into the box but no striker being close). I think the current coaching team burdens the players with too much asking them to come up with solutions on their own while in the situation. This might work better with better players but even them would have to create a very good understanding with each other first. For me that is where other mangers shine: they give the players tools to be executed on the pitch in specific situation to artificially support and accelerate the process of getting to know each other. Without guidance I have to play a few games to get an understanding what my Fullback will do in specific situations and how I could take benefit from it in an attacking position. The shortcut would be to know that the fullback is asked to choose from 2-3 approaches when in certain positions depending on where the strikers are.

To answer the question on a bigger-picture-level: Our flaws are the results of some very bad decisions in the last years (even before SAF left). They affected the transition away from SAF, they affected the team, the transfers, the policies, the system and so on.
When Ole came in he did a good job and probably played an important role to reset some of the issues. I think, he has every right to try to follow an SAF-like approach managing us. But I think, he has to check if the times and environments have changed too much to have that working these days. Other managers work with systems, they guide their players, making it easier for them to shine. They recruit players for their skillsets and fit into the system on top of being right character-wise. I am not saying his approach has no way of working ever, but currently I feel we reached some sort of plateau. And the VDB transfers gives me doubts about a few things. Like I said in another thread, it feels like rolling the dice waiting and hoping for a 6. To go for the big honors this tea right now needs upgrades on a few positions but it will also benefit from getting more guidance to get more from the personal available.

 

[Polar]

You said we can't change the style of play, we very much can because I just gave several examples of managers who have done that, with minimal resources too. I'm pretty certain that Ole wouldn't do a better job than Bielsa, Potter, and Rodgers with their squad and resources. That tells you something. Regardless of players, Ole needs to do more coaching-wise. Or as Fergie did, bring in coaches who can do it for him.

My point was that coaching isn’t going to solve our offensive midtfield issue as long as we have to play both Fred and McT on the midfield (defensive stability) and Pogba has been more out that in our startup.

It’s quite obvious we need more skills available on our midtfield. We can’t solve that with coaching. Don’t see how coaching can do offensive magic with Fred/McT.

But I said you had some good points too

 

[r0663664]

I love Fergie. 4-4-2 with 2 very good wingers and fullback willing to overlap. Top class striker like Rooney, Ruud, Yorke, Cole and etc waiting to pounce. One midfield general like Keane or Butt, creative midfielder like Scholes. Classy and tough CB with likes of Bruce, Pallister, Richard, Vidic and etc. I watch with excitement back in the day every weekend. I don't know what I am watching today. Misfiring strikers, forward converted to wingers, fullback that seldom overlap and can't cross. Midfielder who loses ball easily. Totally opposite to how we play 10-15 years ago. Utd has fallen due to the takeover. With Glazers, we can forget about buying worldclass players so we need to unearth gems in our youth squad like back in 1992 else we will continue to struggle with mediocre results. We also need a new manager as Ole doesn't have what it takes. Nice guy won't bring result, manager needs to be ruthless (why is Martial playing? I rather play Greenwood every game)

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Seriously? Another one of these? We have some players consistently starting for us that would not get near the starting 11 for other top 6 teams. It is so painfully obvious to most that we need a classy CDM, a right winger and a good striker.
Until we fix the personnel then we can’t change the style of our play.

It's interest how painfully obvious this is yet we signed the the Liam Miller of attacking midfielders in the summer.