I would have thought most would agree Cole's best was at Arsenal. Evra was better than him pretty much every season once he got going (either the same season or season after Cole joined you) but most would admit that Arsenal-era Cole at his best had hit a higher peak. Once he joined you there was really only one season (pretty sure it was 09/10) that he looked like he may be back to his absolute best and might overtake Evra again, but then Cole got injured and missed most of the second half of the season.
Eden Hazard | "It's time to enjoy life drinking beers"
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Beckham was the best right winger during the PL era. People tend to forget just how good he was during his three year peak of 99-01, but he was right up there amongst the best players in the league and even the world at that point.
No, someone said he was the most fouled player and I contended he drew fouls and went down dead ends to win fouls when an easier pass was on. Someone then said he had dross around him hence why he didn't pass.
Only Chelsea fans rate him because they've never had a true superstar/league's best player in their team. Never had a Ronaldo, a Beckham, an Henry or a Kane, or an Aguero, or a KDB or a Salah (well, you had those last two but your greatest ever manager didn't see the value in them).
Two things stand out to me when I think of Cole (on the pitch anyway)
That Arsenal left side with him, Pires and Henry and the Euro 2004 masterclass against Cristiano (which while was for England he was an Arsenal player at the time)
His whole time at Chelsea is just forgettable for me. Wouldn't surprise me if he ended up playing more league game for Chelsea though haha
Yeah, could see that. Don't think there's too much in it either way but I'd at least argue that Cole was never better than he was in 09/10 under Carlo and then during our CL run in 11/12.
Yeah, Beckham was tremendous; I'd still have Hazard over him personally but it's closer than most would think.
Hazard was regularly our only reliable attacking outlet - it was a deliberate strategy for most of our opposition to foul him out of the game. Had nothing to do with his propensity to pass.
Also, Hazard's award cabinet would suggest the bolded is patently false.
Really? You were getting PSG rather than Real Madrid most of the time in last 16 and their record was poor in other seasons getting knocked out by Man. United of course famously. PSG 14/15 was impossible to beat? Just checked back and Zlatan was sent off after half an hour in the second leg so they had 10 men for 90 minutes given it went into extra time.
I was on about those more in which Hazard should've been making the difference rather than Atletico which yeah was only CL SF he actually played for Chelsea. Was the difference in the europa final at least.
Instantly reminded me of that FA cup game where Herrera booted him into the air, got booked and then about 30 seconds later did the same and got sent off.
I always thought Hazard tended to step it up a fair bit v Man. United, can remember the cup final and him just winning loads of free kicks in last 5 minutes to run down the clock.Certainly we should have done better against that PSG. Very poor management from Mourinho I'd say. In 15/16 we were outclassed (that was probably peak PSG pre-Neymar), 17/18 we got Barca, and that's the extent of Hazard's participation in the CL for Chelsea done and dusted.
Barca in 17/18 weren't anything special, Roma beat them 3-0 to knock them out next round. Think by then Conte had downed tools pretty much though so lack of motivation in the team.
According to Redcafe; Fred > Kante so these last couple of pages are no surprise.
Well that and Willian hitting the post 3 times in the first leg only for Christensen to gift an incredibly stupid equalizer. Then in the second leg Courtois let a very tame shot through his legs in like the 3rd minute.
You're right though, the fundamental issue was Conte had pissed everyone off - hierarchy and players included. As you say 17/18 Barca weren't anything particularly special but they were still clearly a tier above that year's Chelsea.
You see as a United fan I didn't really fear Hazard that much. We knew he was a good player obviously but you could nullify him and when you did he would be anonymous. Ronaldo on the other hand simply destroyed everyone and was sensational in every area, even in the air.Instantly reminded me of that FA cup game where Herrera booted him into the air, got booked and then about 30 seconds later did the same and got sent off.
I just don't see Hazard as ever really being the best internationally or in the CL as you pointed out. The very best players tear everything apart and as shown over in Spain he's dramatically fallen short.
You sound like someone with a childish grudge. Chelsea has had plenty of superstars (Gullit, Vialli, Robben, Lampard, Drogba, Shevchenko, Ballack, Hazard, Costa), plenty of league’s best player in their positions (Zola, Carvalho, Terry, Cech, Essien, Cole, Hazard, Kante). What you’d notice, is that of the Chelsea teams that won league’s and trophies of note (2004-2008, 2010-12, 2013-2019), the two first periods where littered with top shelf players, whereas Hazard’s period was exactly marked out by him being heads and shoulders their best and the league’s best player for much of the time. As opposed to De Bruyne, Aguero and Silva who had each other and Pep’s army of Emirate mercenaries, as opposed to Becks and Ronaldo who had theworlds greatest managers best ever teams behing them, and as opposed to Kane who have won nothing, Hazard was exactly that star performer who lifted a team over several years. And I don’t even like him, not Abramovich, nor Chelsea.
Hazard was probably as good as/better than lots of "greats" mentioned in this thread.. If you put prime Hazard in those United teams instead of Giggs, would there have been a noticeable drop off in in quality?
He's suffered injury after injury (whether that's his fault is another debate) and people are now trying to re-write history and say he was never that good anyway? People have very short-term memories.
Kaka and Owen had their careers impacted by injury at Madrid, so I guess they were "too mentally frail" to succeed at the top level too.
He's suffered injury after injury (whether that's his fault is another debate) and people are now trying to re-write history and say he was never that good anyway? People have very short-term memories.
Kaka and Owen had their careers impacted by injury at Madrid, so I guess they were "too mentally frail" to succeed at the top level too.
Really? What did he win?
You mean once through systematically fouling him.
Oh I see him as a very good player for sure but with some caveats.
He came out a few years ago and said his dream was to win balon d'or so if that's the stated ambition you simply have to measure them by what they do in CL given Messi and Ronaldo have it all sewn up year in year out even when their clubs don't actually win CL.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-ballon-dor-chelsea-transfer-january-football
Neymar has had more justification to win it in recent times but he's still been a fair way off and Modric needed to win CL 2-3 times and get to a world cup final for him.
Now his body is breaking down and he's at 30 it's going to be Bale lite for next few years I'm afraid so can't see him ever reaching the heights of last 5 years again although probably a prem club will take him back at some point.
"Yeah, we did have superstars" then lists Shevchenko.
Ref the bolded part; your owner is a Russian crook who, rumour has it, has bumped off his fair share of people. Combined with the fact the players you have listed joined your cash rich, billionaire daddy project (Shev/Ballack) at the end of their careers for a pay day, it's a tad rich coming from a Chelsea fan calling City "mercenaries".
@TrustInJanuzaj tried to argue Maguire > Silva not long ago.
I am a red through and through, but Fred being better Kante is laughable.
...The player of the year award? Given to the best player in the league?
I do think Fred is better than this Kante, he just gets strange credit for running about the pitch. Neither are really good enough to be regular starters for teams chasing City.
Straight up delusion.
How? Box to box midfielders doesnt work at the top level anymore and he doesnt do much around the box. Kovacic plus a player who is accomplished on the ball will improve Chelsea no end.
Chelseas attacks are dead through the middle and it doesnt help that Kante needs a sitter beside him. Theres too much pressure on Mount and its one of the main reasons why they struggle to score and why their pace isnt utilised enough up top. They arent capable of playing the early ball over the top or out wide.
You see it when we play each other. You either get beat or sit waay back because you are terrified of us on the break and its Fred and Scott who are the first reference for those counters.
I assumed this was a given.
Prime Kante (past his peak now) would be a shoe in for Ole. Perfect for an Ole team that breaks forward on transitions. Kante ability to win the ball higher up the pitch would be so useful. At his prime one of the best CMs in the league with his skillset.
Fred better than kante? Definitely not.
As current players?
I think the common theme is Chelsea fans coming on here seeking approval of how good their players are, and have been, from fans of undisputed PL royalty, Manchester United. I get it.
A whole lot missing in the CL. Hazard has 4 non penalty goals in his entire CL careers. That is horrendous for a forward.
It's been mentioned a few times that hazard is lacking at CL and international level yet it's been ignored repeatedly.
Usually the most talented players don't play GK or CB. That's just how it is. If you're genius level talented you'll be pushed by your coaches to play an offensive role starting early.
Even if you ignore the "talented" aspect, I don't see how Hazard is inferior to these guys, early 2000s bias aside.
You forgot the 2012/13 season where Chelsea didnt make it from the groups
I've always found the part in bold very funny when I see Chelsea fans trying to take shots at Citeh over their ownership.
Good shout! My mistake. That was also very bad.
Transfermarkt has Hazards current value at £35m. That's how much of a cliff he's dropped off. Alexis Sanchez level of dive.
All in good fun mate! No need to apologise whatsoever.
I exclude you mate. Sorry.
We actually have a group chat lead by lord Duffer where we discuss tactics. Today's topic was spreading Hazard propaganda.
I've not even seen him play for Madrid yet, but it's ridiculously dumb to claim Hazard is a flat track bully in the PL when he's been quite obviously one of the better big games players we've had in the premier league in recent years.
Some people really just like to make up opinions based on nothing.
Some people really just like to make up opinions based on nothing.