Paul Pogba

[SAFMUTD]

As of today he has Lingard and Pogba where he could be the difference between us receiving £80m, us receiving £55m and/or us keeping Pogba (if that's what the club wants). So as of now his value is somewhere between a large 8 figure difference in fees and keeping a good player.

Likewise he could be the difference between us signing Haaland and having a great centre forward for a decade and us having to settle for an inferior option. Likewise he could be the difference between facilitating a deal for De Ligt in the future or not.

Finally there's the opportunity cost of writing off all future talent that he'll inevitably represent.

If the downsides were small every club would have stamped out Raiola (and other agents) by now.

I get your point about him influencing the player, but I dont think that influence is as big as to say he's the difference between getting or keeping this or that player. At the end of the day the agents try to get the best deal out of the players decision. If Pogba wants out then Riaola won't be able to keep him, nor he will be able to convince Haaland or De Ligt to join us if they want to go to another team.

Ultimately is defining what we are willing to allow, does keeping a relation with Riaola and his players is worth being treated like scum? I think it doesn't but I understand why you or someone else wouldn't mind as long as we get the targets desired.

 

[finneh]

I get your point about him influencing the player, but I dont think that influence is as big as to say he's the difference between getting or keeping this or that player. At the end of the day the agents try to get the best deal out of the players decision. If Pogba wants out then Riaola won't be able to keep him, nor he will be able to convince Haaland or De Ligt to join us if they want to go to another team.

Ultimately is defining what we are willing to allow, does keeping a relation with Riaola and his players is worth being treated like scum? I think it doesn't but I understand why you or someone else wouldn't mind as long as we get the targets desired.

I think dealing on our terms is the key. The problem is you can generally only do that from a position of strength.

Raiola would have far less power if we were winning trophies regularly, as well as offering top salaries.

In that scenario it's his job to facilitate his clients move to us rather than our job to convince him (usually via more cash and agents fee's) to get them to us.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I think dealing on our terms is the key. The problem is you can generally only do that from a position of strength.

Raiola would have far less power if we were winning trophies regularly, as well as offering top salaries.

In that scenario it's his job to facilitate his clients move to us rather than our job to convince him (usually via more cash and agents fee's) to get them to us.

Totally agree, we've put ourselves in a position were we need to pay higher fees than other clubs to get/retain players. Hopefully soon we can start winning and turn this around.

 

[kundalini]

As of today he has Lingard and Pogba where he could be the difference between us receiving £80m, us receiving £55m and/or us keeping Pogba (if that's what the club wants). So as of now his value is somewhere between a large 8 figure difference in fees and keeping a good player.

Likewise he could be the difference between us signing Haaland and having a great centre forward for a decade and us having to settle for an inferior option. Likewise he could be the difference between facilitating a deal for De Ligt in the future or not.

Finally there's the opportunity cost of writing off all future talent that he'll inevitably represent.

If the downsides were small every club would have stamped out Raiola (and other agents) by now.

Lingard split with Raiola in November 2020

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/man...-parts-company-with-agent-mino-raiola-sources

 

[Amar__]

Thought he was poor last night against us, after few good moves he would lose the ball for no reason other than that he was happy to continue dwelling on the ball like he is a winger and not a central midfielder. I guess any time he does something good with the ball he is so happy he wants to do another good thing and make it all about himself instead of opting for an easy pass because he already created enough room. I don't think he will ever mature in that regard.

 

[red4ever 79]

Disageee with this line of reasoning. Pogba will be desperate to be playing for France in the Euros and WC. If he decides to leave on a free then we can just as easily let him rot in the reserves and probably cost him his place in the France team. And frankly with his inconsistency, I would question how much demand there would really be for his services after a year of reserve football (given he hasn’t been pulling up trees beforehand either).

People might say this is immature(or similar) from the club, but it sends a clear message to the Raiola types that if you want to drag the club through the mud and be a dick, you get treated like one in return.

I'd love to know what planet you woke up on. Even if Pogba is in the final year of his contract, there is not a chance in hell he doesnt play, providing he is fit. He is our second best midfielder behind Bruno, could you imagine Ole having to rely on McFred for a whole season sitting in front of the CB's with the sideways, backwards bullshit. I dont get the hate towards Pogba. Yes his agent is a scumbag. However the player has always been professional, and like I said in an earlier post, he is probably at a stage in his career now where he has his eyes on the top prizes including the champions league. He is not going to get near that in the next few years staying at Utd, so he probably feels like a move away is the best thing for him.

 

[Walrus]

I'd love to know what planet you woke up on. Even if Pogba is in the final year of his contract, there is not a chance in hell he doesnt play, providing he is fit. He is our second best midfielder behind Bruno, could you imagine Ole having to rely on McFred for a whole season sitting in front of the CB's with the sideways, backwards bullshit. I dont get the hate towards Pogba. Yes his agent is a scumbag. However the player has always been professional, and like I said in an earlier post, he is probably at a stage in his career now where he has his eyes on the top prizes including the champions league. He is not going to get near that in the next few years staying at Utd, so he probably feels like a move away is the best thing for him.

thats simply not true mate, as there have been plenty of times he hasn’t played for us. For a long time our best/most balanced midfield was thought to be McFred with Bruno in front.

Since Pogba came back into the team around January, he has put in some good performances (read: good, not great). The first half of the season he was abysmal and deserved to be dropped - which he was.

 

[red thru&thru]

I'd love to know what planet you woke up on. Even if Pogba is in the final year of his contract, there is not a chance in hell he doesnt play, providing he is fit. He is our second best midfielder behind Bruno, could you imagine Ole having to rely on McFred for a whole season sitting in front of the CB's with the sideways, backwards bullshit. I dont get the hate towards Pogba. Yes his agent is a scumbag. However the player has always been professional, and like I said in an earlier post, he is probably at a stage in his career now where he has his eyes on the top prizes including the champions league. He is not going to get near that in the next few years staying at Utd, so he probably feels like a move away is the best thing for him.

Pogba has said a few things whilst away on international duty about not being so happy and I think a summer or 2 ago he was talking about wanting to leave.

However, he's always been really good at the club with the players. You can see how the players like him, and clearly the coaching staff do too.

Personally, I believe he would have been happy to stay if we were winning things, and that is fair. Players under Fergie would want to stay or come, because trophies were being won. Fergie then chose when a player left, bar one or two. Now the scenario has flipped. Players will want to leave and it's proving harder to for the manager to keep hold of the players he wants to keep hold of.

 

[red thru&thru]

thats simply not true mate, as there have been plenty of times he hasn’t played for us. For a long time our best/most balanced midfield was thought to be McFred with Bruno in front.

Since Pogba came back into the team around January, he has put in some good performances (read: good, not great). The first half of the season he was abysmal and deserved to be dropped - which he was.

Pogba would play. If he's performing, he plays. It's proven that he and Bruno working together is better for the both of them, than when they don't play together.

Fred & McTominay works fine against the top 6 teams, even the Ole played Pogba in the right against Lfc & also played against Arsenal. Pogba & Bruno are out 2 best players...especially playing against teams with low blocks.

 

[Odin]

We all know Pogba is currently playing for a new handsome contract - somewhere. The upside to this is us seeing the best of him every now and then. I'd still sell him and try to get Grealish or someone with a similar skillset and determination. If we also splash some money on someone like Rice, Ndidi, 'fill-in-skillfull-enough-yet-defensively-capable-midfielder', we'd be set for next season.

Not knowing which engine is running in midfield massively hurts us both in attack and defense. Paul has lots of the tools we need, but can he maintain the application?

 

[red thru&thru]

We all know Pogba is currently playing for a new handsome contract - somewhere. The upside to this is us seeing the best of him every now and then. I'd still sell him and try to get Grealish or someone with a similar skillset and determination. If we also splash some money on someone like Rice, Ndidi, 'fill-in-skillfull-enough-yet-defensively-capable-midfielder', we'd be set for next season.

Not knowing which engine is running in midfield massively hurts us both in attack and defense. Paul has lots of the tools we need, but can he maintain the application?

This. I believe Pogba makes us much better...but only when he's on it.

However, my concern is, where do we play this Pogba replacement? If it is Grealish, he doesn't play in a double pivot. If we get Ndidi, is he a Fred replacement more than Pogba? Then we still need a Pogba replacement, as I believe our creativity suffers when Bruno just on his own.

For me, I'd play a 433 formation, with Ndidi sitting on his own, & Grealish & Bruno in the further 2 roles up on left and right...especially against the low block teams.

 

[Renegade]

Not suprised he wants to leave. Looking back he must think his wasted prime years here. His played under Jose & Ole and in his 5 seasons he only has a league cup and Europa league title to show. Both of which he won in his first season aswell.

 

[Judas]

Not suprised he wants to leave. Looking back he must think his wasted prime years here. His played under Jose & Ole and in his 5 seasons he only has a league cup and Europa league title to show. Both of which he won in his first season aswell.

No one in that time has come in with a reasonable offer for him, have they? We'd probably have sold a couple of times if anyone did. For all the talk, no other team has seemingly put their money where their mouth is. Instead everyones waiting for him to be available on a free.

 

[kouroux]

thats simply not true mate, as there have been plenty of times he hasn’t played for us. For a long time our best/most balanced midfield was thought to be McFred with Bruno in front.

Since Pogba came back into the team around January, he has put in some good performances (read: good, not great). The first half of the season he was abysmal and deserved to be dropped - which he was.

For good reasons, between injuries and Covid, he just wasn't close to being 100% fit.

 

[red4ever 79]

For good reasons, between injuries and Covid, he just wasn't close to being 100% fit.

I'd still take an abysmal Pogba ahead of McFred any day of the week

 

[red4ever 79]

Pogba has said a few things whilst away on international duty about not being so happy and I think a summer or 2 ago he was talking about wanting to leave.

However, he's always been really good at the club with the players. You can see how the players like him, and clearly the coaching staff do too.

Personally, I believe he would have been happy to stay if we were winning things, and that is fair. Players under Fergie would want to stay or come, because trophies were being won. Fergie then chose when a player left, bar one or two. Now the scenario has flipped. Players will want to leave and it's proving harder to for the manager to keep hold of the players he wants to keep hold of.

Good post and well put argument. I agree with you. If the club is not winning things then we are going to struggle to keep hold of our tier 1 players.

 

[VP89]

For good reasons, between injuries and Covid, he just wasn't close to being 100% fit.

Whatever the reasons may be for Pogba not being available, or being impactful over the course of a season - his inconsistency for me does not deem him worth keeping. If 1) he wants to stay and 2) we can be guaranteed of his fitness then it might be a different consideration. However we can only go back on inconsistent seasons, 3 month flurries of good form over a 9 season at best, and conclude that it's £89m over-spent. If he wants to stay then it might be a different consideration as he looks more capable to show form under Ole. But if he wants to go, and he has a shitstain agent on top, then we should just plan without him as it's not remotely worth it.

 

[kouroux]

Whatever the reasons may be for Pogba not being available, or being impactful over the course of a season - his inconsistency for me does not deem him worth keeping. If 1) he wants to stay and 2) we can be guaranteed of his fitness then it might be a different consideration. However we can only go back on inconsistent seasons, 3 month flurries of good form over a 9 season at best, and conclude that it's £89m over-spent. If he wants to stay then it might be a different consideration as he looks more capable to show form under Ole. But if he wants to go, and he has a shitstain agent on top, then we should just plan without him as it's not remotely worth it.

Just gave some context as to why he was struggling earlier in the season which is something not many caftards take the time to do.

I'd still take an abysmal Pogba ahead of McFred any day of the week

Me too tbh but going forward, if he's to be sold then there is no way the McFred midfield can be our main one, it's just not good enough when it's all said and done

 

[GuyfromAustria]

Riaola

Raoila

Riola

Oh come on

 

[red4ever 79]

Just gave some context as to why he was struggling earlier in the season which is something not many caftards take the time to do.


Me too tbh but going forward, if he's to be sold then there is no way the McFred midfield can be our main one, it's just not good enough when it's all said and done

I think you are in for a rude awakening my friend. There is no way he will be sold. You think any team in this economic climate is going to pay a hefty fee and then his high wages ontop. Almost certain he is sitting on his last year and will go for free next summer. I have no faith in our board that they will deliver a midfielder of that standard.

 

[kouroux]

I think you are in for a rude awakening my friend. There is no way he will be sold. You think any team in this economic climate is going to pay a hefty fee and then his high wages ontop. Almost certain he is sitting on his last year and will go for free next summer. I have no faith in our board that they will deliver a midfielder of that standard.

There is no rude awakening waiting for me, I don't want him to be sold at all, even if it means losing him on a free. It gives the club that bit more time to search for a good option if there is no contract extension.

 

[red4ever 79]

There is no rude awakening waiting for me, I don't want him to be sold at all, even if it means losing him on a free. It gives the club that bit more time to search for a good option if there is no contract extension.
[/QUOTE]
I also want Pogba to stay. He is a top player and makes things happen. Yes he has bad games, is inconsistent but he still has that magic in his locker to create something enjoyable whilst watching the match. I am just stating my opinion - It's highly unlikely he will sign a new contract as clearly he is competitive and wants to win the big prizes, and at the same time with the current economic situation i just dont see anyone signing him for a transfer fee/paying his wages on top.

Likely scenario is he sees out his contract and leaves next summer. I just have lost faith in our board that they will buy a suitable replacement.

 

[gazbradley]

Clubs in a really tricky position with Pogba, he holds a lot of the power. We need to have his future sorted this summer whether that’s selling or extending, it’ll be easy stories for journalists to write all season if it’s not sorted otherwise especially when Raiola will be pimping him out to everyone.
I think it’s probably the right time to move him on and just be done with it, might have to take a hit on the fee but if we can get anything close to £50 mil it’ll be good business and a decent amount to put towards a replacement

 

[red4ever 79]

Clubs in a really tricky position with Pogba, he holds a lot of the power. We need to have his future sorted this summer whether that’s selling or extending, it’ll be easy stories for journalists to write all season if it’s not sorted otherwise especially when Raiola will be pimping him out to everyone.
I think it’s probably the right time to move him on and just be done with it, might have to take a hit on the fee but if we can get anything close to £50 mil it’ll be good business and a decent amount to put towards a replacement

There lies the problem. Which club do you imagine is going to spunk a hefty fee on him and pay him 200k p/w? You only have to look at last summers major transfers to realise that in this current economic situation it isnt going to happen. Why would PSG for example do that when they can wait 6 more months and agree a preliminary contract with him to join on a free.

 

[CM]

Oh come on

MacGuiraiola

 

[Giggsy13]

I’ve changed my tune on Pogba, I want to him to stay because I know our owners won’t invest in a proper replacement. If he leaves, we’ll be told we have a replacement in the squad in VDB or we’ll
be fed stories about exciting youth players who can take his place in 5 years.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

We're definitely better with him than not, there is no debate there, but I do not think the club will risk losing the record transfer on a free. Should swap him this summer.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Just get rid, there is no point keeping player who is unhappy at the moment and wants to leave. 50m-60m pounds is the reasonable range of price I will be expecting. No chance the contract talk will go smoothly with Raiola, the guy has power to rip us off with ridiculous wages and agent fees because Pogba is on his final year.

Get Sancho to cover his creativity on the wide area and Kessie to cover his creativity & physical attribute as CM. 2 quality players who are interested to come here.

Martial/Mason/Cavani
Rashford Bruno Sancho
Kessie Fred/McT
​

To me that's already an upgrade of what we have right now. It shows you that football team is not just about one player.

 

[Ali Dia]

I'd still take an abysmal Pogba ahead of McFred any day of the week

then we’d probably be 7th and everyone would be complaining about there not being enough graft in the middle and getting overrun. We need to find the middle ground. Pogba needs to do a lot more defensively and keep it simple a lot more often to play in any effective 2 behind Bruno. If he wants to coast and do the Hollywood bit then he needs to be in Bruno’s spot which isn’t happening.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

He should have been sold 2 years ago when he came out and said he wanted out whilst in Japan. He's done nothing of great note since for us and all we've done is lost value on him.

Bruno has come in and for me has less natural ability as Pogba does and totally shown him up. Why? Because Bruno actually cares and runs his balls off even when playing poorly. If Pogba had the same worth ethic and commitment Bruno has he truly would be competing for the Balon D'or already or certainly in the mix anyway. But he never has.

Clearly natural talent only takes you so far. I'm sick of the excuses made for him personally. Bruno has showed that you can deliver consistently playing with inferior players. So why can't Pogba do it?

 

[romufc]

If he doesn't sign a contract or does not leave this summer, this will have big implications on our club.

If no one signs him and he doesn't sign a new contract, we should not rely on him next season only for him to leave on a free. I would rather have him in the squad playing the role VDB has this season.

There is no point playing a player who one does not want to play for the club and two you cannot build a squad on.

If you don;t want to be here, get your agent to find you a club this summer, or be content with a place on the bench for next season.

 

[finneh]

Lingard split with Raiola in November 2020

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/man...-parts-company-with-agent-mino-raiola-sources

Right you are!

 

[red4ever 79]

then we’d probably be 7th and everyone would be complaining about there not being enough graft in the middle and getting overrun. We need to find the middle ground. Pogba needs to do a lot more defensively and keep it simple a lot more often to play in any effective 2 behind Bruno. If he wants to coast and do the Hollywood bit then he needs to be in Bruno’s spot which isn’t happening.

No, we didnt finish 7th last season and we didnt have McFred playing as part of back 6.

 

[Giggsy13]

Just get rid, there is no point keeping player who is unhappy at the moment and wants to leave. 50m-60m pounds is the reasonable range of price I will be expecting. No chance the contract talk will go smoothly with Raiola, the guy has power to rip us off with ridiculous wages and agent fees because Pogba is on his final year.

Get Sancho to cover his creativity on the wide area and Kessie to cover his creativity & physical attribute as CM. 2 quality players who are interested to come here.

Martial/Mason/Cavani
Rashford Bruno Sancho
Kessie Fred/McT
​

To me that's already an upgrade of what we have right now. It shows you that football team is not just about one player.

Let me know how that works on fifa or PES for you.

 

[Walrus]

Pogba would play. If he's performing, he plays. It's proven that he and Bruno working together is better for the both of them, than when they don't play together.

You said yourself - "if hes performing". The trouble is that since he rejoined the club, Pogba has rarely performed. There has to come a point where his level becomes normalised to what we have actually been witnessing. Also, the Pogba/Bruno "combo" was regarded as a major problem that needed solving, for much of the last year, so I dont really know where the latter half of your statement is coming from either.

Pogba has a higher ceiling, he is capable of world class performances, but he has not shown that apart from the odd one-off game here and there. His average level for us has been poor, and defensively he has often shown himself to be a liability.

Going back to the original point, Pogba is not undroppable, and if he digs his heels in and insists that he is leaving on a free in 2022 then we should make an example of him. Its a big "if" though, and I would hope it wouldnt come to that and we could move him on for a half decent fee this summer - that would be better for all parties.

For good reasons, between injuries and Covid, he just wasn't close to being 100% fit.

In the same way that I am sure all the players who pull out of international friendlies are genuinely injured.

Injury is always a convenient excuse for dropping a player. There may be some truth in it, but it may also have been just that - an excuse.

 

[Ali Dia]

No, we didnt finish 7th last season and we didnt have McFred playing as part of back 6.

Ok. 3rd then. We still ain’t winning anything

 

[red4ever 79]

Ok. 3rd then. We still ain’t winning anything

I will agree on that. Whether Pogba stays or goes we ain't winning anything amen. All i want is to enjoy watching the match and at the moment it's painful watching us.

 

[kouroux]

half decent fee this summer - that would be better for all parties.



In the same way that I am sure all the players who pull out of international friendlies are genuinely injured.

Injury is always a convenient excuse for dropping a player. There may be some truth in it, but it may also have been just that - an excuse.

Since you would know feck all about it, what's the point of your post ? Pogba said it affected him (covid), Ole said it also affected him but more than that we could use our own eyes to see he was nowhere 100% fit but keep on considering it an excuse. Just to be precise I'm only talking about the first half of the 20-21 season in case you'd be tempted to bring up other seasons...

 

[Tibs]

Pogba is a winner...he wants trophies.

Only way that's going to happen in the short term is if we get Rice, Sancho and Haaland....I imagine we will have a long saga before he goes to PSG Barca or Madrid, and we MIGHT end up with one of the three, probably Rice

 

[gazbradley]

There lies the problem. Which club do you imagine is going to spunk a hefty fee on him and pay him 200k p/w? You only have to look at last summers major transfers to realise that in this current economic situation it isnt going to happen. Why would PSG for example do that when they can wait 6 more months and agree a preliminary contract with him to join on a free.

Exactly, anything close is good business. I guess the thinking for PSG or whoever would be pretty much every big club would be in for him on a free, is it worth spending the 40-50mil now and get an extra year out of him with no competition. I think 40mil for Pogba is a good signing considering some of the prices being quoted for players, if we’d of spent similar on a player of his quality in the summer with one year left I doubt many would be grumbling