Cop in America doing a bad job, again

[utdalltheway]

It has to be common sense reform. You don't want to skew the system so far the other was to make it so they won't be able to do their job effectively, but at the same time the current situation is obvs not working, and hasn't worked for donkeys.

 

[Eboue]

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you cant reform murderers

 

[bsCallout]

Why do American police feel the need to use guns so much?

Why do they resort to dangerous measures to catch someone NOW who isn't posing a risk to the public?

I can't understand why it is the first thing they do.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Why do American police feel the need to use guns so much?

Why do they resort to dangerous measures to catch someone NOW who isn't posing a risk to the public?

I can't understand why it is the first thing they do.

It's a strange one. Obviously not a deterrent, rather, it's made people more likely to flee because they feel they have better odds of surviving if they don't stick around.

 

[calodo2003]

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you cant reform murderers

Seems like all the young man was doing was exactly what the cop asked him to do - show his hands.

 

[VorZakone]

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you cant reform murderers

That was painful to watch. It's insane how quickly they shoot.

 

[Rado_N]

“But why was he out at 2:30am? Where’s his mom”

I hate “people”.

 

[Rado_N]

He didn’t have a gun in his hand when he was told to raise his hands.

 

[4bars]

Why do American police feel the need to use guns so much?

Why do they resort to dangerous measures to catch someone NOW who isn't posing a risk to the public?

I can't understand why it is the first thing they do.

Because shooting a gun takes a fraction of a second and in US EVERYBODY can have a gun, so police are fecking terrified

Some of the policeman are bad apples
Some of the policeman are not bad apples

I will not dear to put a percentage on it, but all of them are terrified that someone might have a gun, so they shoot as quick as they believe something odd in their perception in a fraction of a second

That doesn't happen with policemen in most or europe because they know that is highly unlikely that a person has a gun and as well use it

 

[Skizzo]

“But why was he out at 2:30am? Where’s his mom”

I hate “people”.

Without it being deserving of being shot, asking why he’s out with someone at 2:30am firing off guns randomly is still worth asking.

 

[Rado_N]

Without it being deserving of being shot, asking why he’s out with someone at 2:30am firing off guns randomly is still worth asking.

It’s entirely irrelevant and serves only as an attempt to distract from and/downplay the criminal behaviour of the officer.

 

[bsCallout]

Because shooting a gun takes a fraction of a second and in US EVERYBODY can have a gun, so police are fecking terrified

Some of the policeman are bad apples
Some of the policeman are not bad apples

I will not dear to put a percentage on it, but all of them are terrified that someone might have a gun, so they shoot as quick as they believe something odd in their perception in a fraction of a second

That doesn't happen with policemen in most or europe because they know that is highly unlikely that a person has a gun and as well use it

Obviously I have absolutely no idea on the stats but I cant imagine police have guns drawn on them THAT often. Shouldn't shooting a gun be the LAST thing you think about?

The guns laws are mental to me but that's a can I don't want to open.

 

[VorZakone]

It’s entirely irrelevant and serves only as an attempt to distract from and/downplay the criminal behaviour of the officer.

Are people not allowed to genuinely know the answer to that question? Some may have a genuine desire to see the south side Chicago improve and want to ask these questions. Why shoot them down for it? Not everybody is trying to use it as a justification.

There's 2 sides to this: the cop doing the killing but also the kid finding himself in a situation where he gets killed. Maybe he was recruited and exploited by older gang members. That's a big problem in many communities.

 

[calodo2003]

Without it being deserving of being shot, asking why he’s out with someone at 2:30am firing off guns randomly is still worth asking.

It is, but the inability of cops to accurately assess danger & kill someone unnecessarily is the overriding issue here.

The two issues aren’t close in importance. This smacks a bit of getting wound up & mired down like we discussed. It doesn’t advance discussion on the real issue at all.

 

[Rado_N]

Are people not allowed to genuinely know the answer to that question? Some may have a genuine desire to see the south side Chicago improve and want to ask these questions. Why shoot them down for it? Not everybody is trying to use it as a justification.

There's 2 sides to this: the cop doing the killing but also the kid finding himself in a situation where he gets killed. Maybe he was recruited and exploited by older gang members. That's a big problem in many communities.

There are questions worth asking and there are societal issues that need looking at, but anyone replying to that tweet with “why was he out late, where’s his mom” is victim blaming and deflecting plain and simple.

 

[sullydnl]

Are people not allowed to genuinely know the answer to that question? Some may have a genuine desire to see the south side Chicago improve and want to ask these questions. Why shoot them down for it? Not everybody is trying to use it as a justification.

There's 2 sides to this: the cop doing the killing but also the kid finding himself in a situation where he gets killed. Maybe he was recruited and exploited by older gang members. That's a big problem in many communities.

People are allowed to question what they like.

But the appropriate time to divert the conversation down those other routes isn't immediately after video is released showing the police killing an unarmed 13 year old with his hands in the air. Certainly not in direct reply to a video of that killing, as those tweeting those questions are doing.

Of the "two sides" you mention in the bold piece, the actions of the police are the most pressing issue by quite an enormous magnitude. Because the context is that we have just seen a video of an unarmed 13 year old being killed by the police.

 

[WI_Red]

Now compare the videos above of a 13 yo child and 20 yo Daunte Wright to this of a 61 yo white guy and tell me there are not 2 standards for use of ANY force, let alone deadly by police in America.

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[calodo2003]

Now compare the videos above of a 13 yo child and 20 yo Daunte Wright to this of a 61 yo white guy and tell me there are not 2 standards for use of ANY force, let alone deadly by police in America.

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Apparently a face mask dispute.

 

[WI_Red]

Apparently a face mask dispute.

Because of course it was.

 

[VorZakone]

People are allowed to question what they like.

But the appropriate time to divert the conversation down those other routes isn't immediately after video is released showing the police killing an unarmed 13 year old with his hands in the air. Certainly not in direct reply to a video of that killing, as those tweeting those questions are doing.

Of the "two sides" you mention in the bold piece, the actions of the police are the most pressing issue by quite an enormous magnitude. Because the context is that we have just seen a video of an unarmed 13 year old being killed by the police.

Can't we have both conversations? Why "wait" with the "other" conversation about why a 13 year old kid finds himself in a situation where he puts his life in the hands of cops?

Surely incidents like this should actually trigger that conversation too? A kid got killed. Questions must be raised about every aspect of it to ensure it doesn't happen again.

I watched the video. It hurt me. Seeing a 13 year old kid get shot, fall down and bleed. It angers me. Both the fact that this cop couldn't see another way to handle the situation but also the fact that the kid was in this situation, especially if he was with an older person.

 

[calodo2003]

Because of course it was.

Some may justify the police response as appropriate due to what happened prior to the video.

 

[WI_Red]

Can't we have both conversations? Why "wait" with the "other" conversation about why a 13 year old kid finds himself in a situation where he puts his life in the hands of cops?

Surely incidents like this should actually trigger that conversation too? A kid got killed. Questions must be raised about every aspect of it to ensure it doesn't happen again.

I watched the video. It hurt me. Seeing a 13 year old kid get shot, fall down and bleed. It angers me. Both the fact that this cop couldn't see another way to handle the situation but also the fact that the kid was in this situation, especially if he was with an older person.

I think both conversations need to be had, but they need to be completely detached from each other. Discussing why a 13 yo is out and about at 2:30 am should not get anywhere near a discussion as to why a cop shot him when his hands were up. One is a discussion of the challenges of parenting and the other is a discussion of the challenges of police not killing the black and brown among us.

 

[calodo2003]

Can't we have both conversations? Why "wait" with the "other" conversation about why a 13 year old kid finds himself in a situation where he puts his life in the hands of cops?

Surely incidents like this should actually trigger that conversation too? A kid got killed. Questions must be raised about every aspect of it to ensure it doesn't happen again.

I watched the video. It hurt me. Seeing a 13 year old kid get shot, fall down and bleed. It angers me. Both the fact that this cop couldn't see another way to handle the situation but also the fact that the kid was in this situation, especially if he was with an older person.

We can & should, the issue is the bandwidth dedicated to each, both personally & in the media. As @sullydnl stated, the issues are different by orders of magnitude. One is almost anecdotal compared the other. Time & effort spent on discussion should reflect that.

 

[VorZakone]

I respectfully disagree with the viewpoints here that the kid's circumstances are a smaller magnitude than the cop's trigger-happyness. If not the cop, he may find himself get killed on the Chicago streets to gang violence.

But I can understand that that may warrant a different discussion at a different moment. It is a tough topic and perhaps I struggle to properly articulate my viewpoint on it.

 

[calodo2003]

I respectfully disagree with the viewpoints here that the kid's circumstances are a smaller magnitude than the cop's trigger-happyness. If not the cop, he may find himself get killed on the Chicago streets to gang violence.

But I can understand that that may warrant a different discussion at a different moment. It is a tough topic and perhaps I struggle to properly articulate my viewpoint on it.

Not every community is Chicago. The issue is that police seem to consistently act like their community is far more Chicago-ish than reality. They need to be better at assessing danger. They need to execute their job far better & more appropriately (pun not intended). Their prism through which they view their respective communities needs to change.

When you’re a hammer & all that.

e - just came across this article...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk...ning-won-t-eradicate-police-violence-n1264092

 

[sullydnl]

Can't we have both conversations? Why "wait" with the "other" conversation about why a 13 year old kid finds himself in a situation where he puts his life in the hands of cops?

Surely incidents like this should actually trigger that conversation too? A kid got killed. Questions must be raised about every aspect of it to ensure it doesn't happen again.

I watched the video. It hurt me. Seeing a 13 year old kid get shot, fall down and bleed. It angers me. Both the fact that this cop couldn't see another way to handle the situation but also the fact that the kid was in this situation, especially if he was with an older person.

People can have those conversations whenever they like. It's a free world.

But the context of this whole discussion is the release of this video. The revelation of the video is that the police murdered a child. It doesn't reveal anything else we didn't already know about the reality of Chicago's streets or the facts of this case.

If someone's immediate and direct response to that video is to ignore the pressing and relevant information it is revealing and instead to focus on other issues that the video tells us nothing new about then that's rather strange. And if the peripheral issue they're focusing on just so happens to shift focus towards the actions of the victim and away from the perpetrator then that will naturally be greeted with suspicion, because people aren't unaware of the very obvious agendas some people carry into these discussions.

If they were just having the discussion in abstract then fine, they can look at all the broader ancillary societal issues. But in this case it's a direct reply to being shown the actions of the police.

 

[Skizzo]

Not every community is Chicago. The issue is that police seem to consistently act like their community is far more Chicago-ish than reality. They need to be better at assessing danger. They need to execute their job far better & more appropriately (pun not intended). Their prism through which they view their respective communities needs to change.

When you’re a hammer & all that.

e - just came across this article...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk...ning-won-t-eradicate-police-violence-n1264092

But if that community specifically is, why not ask the question? They weren’t acting like they were going to something gun related which was actually something else, it was a response to people firing off gun shots. I stated that no, it doesn’t deserve what happened, and no, it doesn’t absolve the end result, but like we said yesterday, different variables leading up to incidents can effect the outcome. Having 13 year olds out on the street at 2am firing off guns ends in tragedy. How that situation comes about in the first place deserves that question being asked. Not in relation to “did this deserve him to be killed?” But to ask why is he there with someone firing off guns? What got to that point where a thirteen year old is out doing that? Don’t ask the question as a deflection, but ask the question to get to the root of that issue too. There’s more than one thing at play here.

Look at every thread on here now with some kind of mass shooting. “Thoughts and prayers and whatever else” // “it’s hard to even care any more” // “no ones gonna do anything so why should we care?” // “that country is so fecked, it’ll never change”

it’s not victim blaming to ask why he’s there at 2am with people firing off guns. It’s wondering how we can find a way to stop a teenager feeling the need to be in that situation. Sure you can say you remove the police from that equation and he’s still alive, and yes that should absolutely be addressed. But why not also wonder and query how we can stop kids feeing a need to be there, or find a way to stop them getting their hands on firearms to be randomly firing off in the streets.

 

[Skizzo]

There are questions worth asking and there are societal issues that need looking at, but anyone replying to that tweet with “why was he out late, where’s his mom” is victim blaming and deflecting plain and simple.

sorry, thought I responded to this before. To your point, no, it shouldn’t be a deterrent from looking at what happened and both appropriate action being taken, and justice being done. I think the legitimate questioning of why he’s there and how that came to be deserves looking at. For the people who are just deflecting by asking that, yes, they don’t deserve the effort or response.

 

[calodo2003]

But if that community specifically is, why not ask the question? They weren’t acting like they were going to something gun related which was actually something else, it was a response to people firing off gun shots. I stated that no, it doesn’t deserve what happened, and no, it doesn’t absolve the end result, but like we said yesterday, different variables leading up to incidents can effect the outcome. Having 13 year olds out on the street at 2am firing off guns ends in tragedy. How that situation comes about in the first place deserves that question being asked. Not in relation to “did this deserve him to be killed?” But to ask why is he there with someone firing off guns? What got to that point where a thirteen year old is out doing that? Don’t ask the question as a deflection, but ask the question to get to the root of that issue too. There’s more than one thing at play here.

Look at every thread on here now with some kind of mass shooting. “Thoughts and prayers and whatever else” // “it’s hard to even care any more” // “no ones gonna do anything so why should we care?” // “that country is so fecked, it’ll never change”

it’s not victim blaming to ask why he’s there at 2am with people firing off guns. It’s wondering how we can find a way to stop a teenager feeling the need to be in that situation. Sure you can say you remove the police from that equation and he’s still alive, and yes that should absolutely be addressed. But why not also wonder and query how we can stop kids feeing a need to be there, or find a way to stop them getting their hands on firearms to be randomly firing off in the streets.

No one’s saying that there’s only one thing at play. Both conversations can be had, but the energy & bandwidth expended on both needs to be proportional with the severity of the issues as they are orders of magnitude different in scope & severity.

Kids absolutely shouldn’t be doing this. But kids have always acted like this in some capacity & the results haven’t been as severe as they have been in the past two decades with as many deaths.

Not to put trite levels of comparative import on this, but it’s like someone worrying about an ear ache after they have been shot. Both can certainly kill you, but one issue has a bit more pressing importance than the other. They need to be triaged appropriately, just like the violent policing issue needs to be triaged regarding all the component parts.

 

[Skizzo]

No one’s saying that there’s only one thing at play. Both conversations can be had, but the energy & bandwidth expended on both needs to be proportional with the severity of the issues as they are orders of magnitude different in scope & severity.

Kids absolutely shouldn’t be doing this. But kids have always acted like this in some capacity & the results haven’t been as severe as they have been in the past two decades with as many deaths.

Not to put trite levels of comparative import on this, but it’s like someone worrying about an ear ache after they have been shot. Both can certainly kill you, but one issue has a bit more pressing importance than the other. They need to be triaged appropriately, just like the violent policing issue needs to be triaged regarding all the component parts.

This year has had the most shootings in the first quarter in Chicago in years. I wouldn’t say that’s an ear ache. 218 more people have been shot this year than last year at this point for a total of over 800, in Chicago alone.

 

[Grinner]

I think both conversations need to be had, but they need to be completely detached from each other. Discussing why a 13 yo is out and about at 2:30 am should not get anywhere near a discussion as to why a cop shot him when his hands were up. One is a discussion of the challenges of parenting and the other is a discussion of the challenges of police not killing the black and brown among us.

Where is the 'kids out after midnight' discussion thread? I think we are all able to have rational discussions on complicated subjects that involve many tangents. Jumping on people who ask these sorts of questions is annoying if they are honestly seeking answers.

 

[calodo2003]

This year has had the most shootings in the first quarter in Chicago in years. I wouldn’t say that’s an ear ache. 218 more people have been shot this year than last year at this point for a total of over 800, in Chicago alone.

Again, we are getting mired down in specifics when the larger issue of violent policing is that police nationwide seem to think everywhere is more Chicago-ish than it actually is. Everywhere else is not Chicago. The mentality & the prism through which the police view the public is flawed & some segments of the public make out far worse than others. The issue is bigger than Chicago.

Chicago is the ear ache here, the overtly violent policing that is systemic nationwide is the gunshot wound.

 

[WI_Red]

Where is the 'kids out after midnight' discussion thread? I think we are all able to have rational discussions on complicated subjects that involve many tangents. Jumping on people who ask these sorts of questions is annoying if they are honestly seeking answers.

not sure where I jumped on someone?

 

[MrMarcello]

Stumbled across this article from Dec 2017 after revisiting the Daniel Shaver death murder. I felt the writer made some good points, especially getting white people to view what others currently view will go a long ways towards actual reform. And the obvious corruption at play when the one cop's father was on a board that ultimately reinstated his son, who then a few weeks later gets a pension for PTSD and whatnot. Utter bullshit sham scam.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...lice-killing-without-a-hint-of-racism/546983/
A Police Killing Without a Hint of Racism
Daniel Shaver begged officers not to shoot him. What role will his death play in the push for law-enforcement reforms?

 

[calodo2003]

Or anyone was jumped on. Don’t think @Skizzo is being jumped on here, he is correct that questions need to be asked about why two kids that age were out that late shooting handguns, especially in Chicago.

 

[Grinner]

not sure where I jumped on someone?

I picked your post out of a series as an example to make my point.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

it’s not victim blaming to ask why he’s there at 2am with people firing off guns. It’s wondering how we can find a way to stop a teenager feeling the need to be in that situation. Sure you can say you remove the police from that equation and he’s still alive, and yes that should absolutely be addressed. But why not also wonder and query how we can stop kids feeing a need to be there, or find a way to stop them getting their hands on firearms to be randomly firing off in the streets.

Teenagers like to be out late. Maybe he snuck out of the house. I know I did plenty of times at that age. Most rational people would wonder why the police shot him when his hands were up.

 

[Rado_N]

Why was he out so late is basically the same as “why was she wearing a short skirt”.

 

[Grinner]

Teenagers like to be out late. Maybe he snuck out of the house. I know I did plenty of times at that age. Most rational people would wonder why the police shot him.

But did he have a gun? I haven't read closely enough...has that been determined?

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

But did he have a gun? I haven't read closely enough...has that been determined?

Watch the video. His hands were up.