He basically says hands in the air and shoots simultaneously. Surely thats not in their training hand book?
Yes, because I chose not to become a LEO. At the time he was shot, and even before, he was not pointing his weapon at that officer. So therefore it was the very presence of the gun that was justification. By that logic every single person who open carries should be executed immediatelyYou get to make that argument from the safety of your room. There's no way he's going to jail for this. The moment that kid pulled a gun he allowed the cop to legally use deadly force on him.
Yes, because I chose not to become a LEO. At the time he was shot, and even before, he was not pointing his weapon at that officer. So therefore it was the very presence of the gun that was justification. By that logic every single person who open carries should be executed immediately
Are you really saying that because he ran and because he did not listen he was justified in being shot?I don't think the law requires the weapon to be pointed at the time of the shot. People who open carry don't tend to wave their guns about and then take off whilst disobeying lawful orders from a LEO.
What I think doesn't matter. You are asking for this LEO to go to jail. That means he is tried in the courts and therefore the laws are applied to him. Do you believe that a jury will convict him of murder/manslaughter beyond a reasonable doubt?Are you really saying that because he ran and because he did not listen he was justified in being shot?
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It was a cold November day in Buffalo when Officer Cariol Horne responded to a call for a colleague in need of help. What she encountered was a white officer who appeared to be “in a rage” punching a handcuffed Black man in the face repeatedly as other officers stood by.
Sounds stupid right? But there's lots of studies that show that black children aren't seen as child-like (read: innocent) in comparison to white children."Handcuffed black man"
Was he a man or a boy? Tweet said 15 year old.
Do I think he will go to jail? Most likely not based on the almost impossibility of hold LEO's to account for killing civilians. Should he go to jail? Absolutely.What I think doesn't matter. You are asking for this LEO to go to jail. That means he is tried in the courts and therefore the laws are applied to him. Do you believe that a jury will convict him of murder/manslaughter beyond a reasonable doubt?
Now if you want to have an emotional discussion about how terrible this all is then I'm completely with you. The gun culture here and cop brutality/eagerness to shoot is terrible. I'm 100% with you on that. But the laws will allow for him to avoid conviction and I doubt any prosecutor would even take it on...this being based on what we know at this point. New information will be coming out that might change my view.
Thanks for the clarification.Justin is a former trainer and never been a LEO. He is also a former military contractor , where his expertise comes from.
Ah, yes that's very true. Those people are "patriots"I was referring to the armed "protestors" who stormed the Michigan and Wisconsin state capitols, or the people who ran the Biden bus off the road, or the people at the capitol on 1/6. Those "Protestors" are NOT talked about in the same way.
You're right, they are absolutely not solely the GOP, although the first two are mostly the right-wing media and social amplified rhetoric.Sure I do because if that cop had made another choice he might have been killed. Think for a second about what it's like to chase an armed suspect down a dark alley with the prospect of your life being taken from you if you feck it up.
You're first five are not solely right-wing failures. Unfortunately, like in the UK, a truly progressive political party will never get into power. America is in a death spiral and the UK is looking down the same path. Thankfully the UK doesn't have the gun culture, but the stratification of society and marginalisation of the poor is increasing alarmingly. I suppose they should be grateful that all they get is a beating in the UK rather than an execution.
sounds stupid right? Especially considering the fact that the whole thing started about a dispute over an ex-boyfriend stealing a social security check? Could it be possible there was a tweet with incorrect information and in fact it wasn’t a 15 year old boy that someone had described as a man in a race fueled stereotype?"Handcuffed black man"
Was he a man or a boy? Tweet said 15 year old.
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And on Hannity’s show, that abhorrent cnut Pam Bondi called Rittenhouse ‘a seventeen year old boy...’Young 13 year old man. Christ. And you know it's not a mistake, he deliberately used the word man.
This guy always manages to override my hate limit.Tweet
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They do love their fever dream fairytales.Tweet
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Who would've thought.
The video is literally there though. He can say all he wants wouldn't make it excusable, he's at fault for being trigger happy.He'll say he saw a movement or something. We really can't know what happened until an account of the events comes out but he is not getting jail time.
If only there was a video.He'll say he saw a movement or something. We really can't know what happened until an account of the events comes out but he is not getting jail time.
Zach was speaking truth 3 decades ago.Some of those that work forces...
I don't get it. Why would you ask the kid to put his hand up if as soon as he did you were going to piss your pants and shoot him dead? To me the officer ought to somehow get some punishment for shooting an unarmed kid. The parents are not going to accept an Oopsie my bad. Yes he shouldn't be running around with a gun in the middle of the night in the first place but he wasn't aiming it at them so thats no reason from him to be shot dead by the police.
It’s hilarious when the predictable right wing outrage sprouts up occasionally decrying them as being ‘reactionary left wing political tropists.’Zach was speaking truth 3 decades ago.
Who's Zach?Zach was speaking truth 3 decades ago.
Zack de la Rocha from RATM.Who's Zach?
Again, he put his hand up as requested and was unarmed. The law allows deadly force in this situation ? Why would any criminal ever choose to surrender?The law doesn't require him to be aiming it at them for them to use deadly force.
I don't know that bit. I expect that the cop will argue that he thought the kid was about to shoot him and didn't see him drop the weapon. I think until a suspect is cuffed and in control that they are allowed to use force on him.Again, he put his hand up as requested and was unarmed. The law allows deadly force in this situation ? Why would any criminal ever choose to surrender?
Did the cop know he was unarmed though? The kid turned around to face the cop.Again, he put his hand up as requested and was unarmed. The law allows deadly force in this situation ? Why would any criminal ever choose to surrender?
Freeze was always the command in cop shows. Wheeling around is easily interpreted as an aggressive motion, especially if you haven't clearly seen the weapon be discarded.Did the cop know he was unarmed though? The kid turned around to face the cop.
IMO another fault of the cop here is his orders. He should have clearly told the kid not to turn around so he could determine he was unarmed.
Yeah hands behind you head drop to your knees etc all the other stuff I see in the movies... But just shooting him in the process of him following your instruction is just poor and he gets to continue with his life like nothing happened.Did the cop know he was unarmed though? The kid turned around to face the cop.
IMO another fault of the cop here is his orders. He should have clearly told the kid not to turn around so he could determine he was unarmed.
Smacks exactly of the poor guy in the hotel hallway trying to comply with the psychopath cops screaming at him divergent orders while he was already on his knees, hands on his head, & facing them.Yeah hands behind you head drop to your knees etc all the other stuff I see in the movies... But just shooting him in the process of him following your instruction is just poor and he gets to continue with his life like nothing happened.
I agree that it's problematic for the cop, but it's at night, he's been running, adrenaline is pumping so there's that to consider. I just don't think there's enough to convict and it doesn't look to me like the cop intended to murder the kid. I think it's self-preservation and will be considered legally justified.Smacks exactly of the poor guy in the hotel hallway trying to comply with the psychopath cops screaming at him divergent orders while he was already on his knees, hands on his head, & facing them.
But, for me, the inability to accurately assess a threat by a cop is at the core of the unnecessary violent policing in this country. Sure, state of awareness is obviously heightened & a bit skewed at night after a foot chase with an armed perpetrator, but that still doesn’t absolve what we saw last night.I agree that it's problematic for the cop, but it's at night, he's been running, adrenaline is pumping so there's that to consider. I just don't think there's enough to convict and it doesn't look to me like the cop intended to murder the kid. I think it's self-preservation and will be considered legally justified.
It's nothing like the kid in the hotel which was cold-blooded murder by a psychopath.
The problem is that people are getting killed over things that aren't deserving of death. The attitude of 'criminal bad, good dead now' means that these incidents will continue. This isn't an issue where the people should be taking a side. This is policing and it could be any of us in these situations; at a traffic stop, walking home at night, or in a shop suddenly subject to inappropriate levels of force and winding up dead. Everyone who's not a cop, and some that are, should be concerned and asking how can things be done better?I will always favor outcomes that see cops survive over criminals or nobody will do the job.