How should the breakaway clubs be dealt with now?

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Agree with you on most part, everybody overreacts from time to time and we do make snap judgements due to emotions as well but after things calm down we should be able to act rationally and see things for what they are not allowing our biases and prejudices to colour our judgements.

No doubt what our Club tried to pull off was reprehensible but it wasn't in violations of any current regulations of Either PL or UEFA as far as what I have understood from information available publically on this Subject.

Just because some of the posters here have descended into frenzy and are demanding punishments just on moral grounds doesn't mean it's the way forward .
By all means punish these Clubs if they have breached some existing laws which I don't think they have but don't do it arbitrarily and excessively just because public sentiment demands so.

agree.

furthermore, clubs should be entitled to look at alternative options. They got it wrong, Emery man and his dog know that. But we are still in the position where the biggest clubs are essential for the lifeblood of the game, at least on the short/ med term.

This should open up a dialogue so that we can male this right, improve the CL etc - otherwise we will have something similar in the near future.

big punishments being handed out will do no one any good - and as you say, are we going to make up infractions to that we can punish clubs because they didn’t do what we wanted them to do?

 

[fck]

How about a 1-2 year transfer ban for the clubs involved?
It would save money for the 12 and would make the CL and the 3 National Leagues more competitive.

 

[Tallis]

If UEFA punish any of the 6 clubs with anything more than a token fine, I will stop watching UEFA commissioned football.

And the fans that protested the clubs fight against the corrupt UEFA should think about the damage they have done to Utd.

If Florentino really does form his own league, I will only watch that in the future.

 

[Harry190]

Since I only care about United's interest, I do not want United to be punished.

If we are, might as well just engage into a real breakaway. Careful what you wish for.

Turn the other cheek, big words until reality sinks in.

 

[sullydnl]

If we're all punished equally then I couldn't care less what they level at us. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I'm not sure what they can level at us though.

 

[Gandalf]

You can bet your a$$ that Perez is literally cheering on the feckwits who want to sanction the ESL teams. Real still desperately want and need the ESL to happen and any significant sanctions will push the other founding clubs back into the project and this time the bridges will be burned with no turning back. Football fans campaigned and screamed to stop the ESL from happening and now in their need for petty vengeance because their feelings are hurt, because lets face it they suffered no actual damage, they are potentially going to cause it to go ahead after all.

 

[sullydnl]

You can bet your a$$ that Perez is literally cheering on the feckwits who want to sanction the ESL teams. Real still desperately want and need the ESL to happen and any significant sanctions will push the other founding clubs back into the project and this time the bridges will be burned with no turning back. Football fans campaigned and screamed to stop the ESL from happening and now in their need for petty vengeance because their feelings are hurt, because lets face it they suffered no actual damage, they are potentially going to cause it to go ahead after all.

The ESL is dead. No punishment UEFA could reasonably level at the clubs is going to get the UK teams signing up to it again any time soon.

That's one of the many reasons this was such a disaster for the 12 clubs, it costs them a huge amount of leverage. They've been using the prospect of an ESL against UEFA for years and now they can't.

 

[duffer]

How about a 1-2 year transfer ban for the clubs involved?
It would save money for the 12 and would make the CL and the 3 National Leagues more competitive.

Downside for that is a massive reduction in cash to the clubs that would've sold their players to the big 12 (and the trickle down impact on players they might have bought with the dish).

A 2 year ban on all 12 would take a billion plus out of the transfer market.

 

[Spoony]

The ESL is dead. No punishment UEFA could reasonably level at the clubs is going to get the UK teams signing up to it again any time soon.

That's one of the many reasons this was such a disaster for the 12 clubs, it costs them a huge amount of leverage. They've been using the prospect of an ESL against UEFA for years and now they can't.

Aye, they can't even threaten UEFA with a SL anymore. Well not until it isn't as elitist. Probably.

 

[fck]

Downside for that is a massive reduction in cash to the clubs that would've sold their players to the big 12 (and the trickle down impact on players they might have bought with the dish).

A 2 year ban on all 12 would take a billion plus out of the transfer market.

Yes clubs that depend on transfer income would be kind of screwed here as well, so maybe not that good an idea after all.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

United, Europa League Legends.

 

[Drifter]

I'm all for docking points at the beginning of next season.

 

[Gandalf]

The ESL is dead. No punishment UEFA could reasonably level at the clubs is going to get the UK teams signing up to it again any time soon.

That's one of the many reasons this was such a disaster for the 12 clubs, it costs them a huge amount of leverage. They've been using the prospect of an ESL against UEFA for years and now they can't.

It's on life support true but if you think the clubs involved are going to accept any kind of ban you are dreaming. Revenue drove this project in the first place and all of these clubs have lost a fortune due to COVID. Take away their CL revenue even for 1 year and you practically force them to make their own competition.

 

[Bristol_Red_87]

It would be mildly amusing if they banned the clubs involved from Europe with immediate effect.

PSG lifting the ECL by default and Roma vs Villarreal in an unfancied EL Final.

Another exit at the Semi-Final stage for us would be somewhat tempered by another failure in their pursuit of an elusive CL trophy for City and Madrid and Perez denied a timely payout from a ECL win.

Obviously UEFA would shoot themselves in the foot massively pulling off this stunt but the thought amused me nontheless.

 

[Tallis]

I'm all for docking points at the beginning of next season.

Why ?

 

[Giggsy13]

The worst part of all of this are clubs like Chelsea, city and PSG are being lauded as heroes when it’s their shady ownership structures that have helped contribute to the financial mess that football is in today.

 

[The Irish Connection]

The likes of Perez, Glazers and co should be punished, not the players!

 

[Gandalf]

It would be mildly amusing if they banned the clubs involved from Europe with immediate effect.

PSG lifting the ECL by default and Roma vs Villarreal in an unfancied EL Final.

Another exit at the Semi-Final stage for us would be somewhat tempered by another failure in their pursuit of an elusive CL trophy for City and Madrid and Perez denied a timely payout from a ECL win.

Obviously UEFA would shoot themselves in the foot massively pulling off this stunt but the thought amused me nontheless.

In that case PSG would need to decline the trophy or expose the CL for the farce that it is. I thought the slogans being shouted were "Earn it on the pitch", what is earned by giving a trophy to a team just because they didn't join the ESL? I mean, their owners are implicated in the death of 6,500 foreign workers but at least they didn't try and organize a football competition not sanctioned by UEFA. The things people choose to be outraged by never cease to amaze me. The number of fans of the other 14 PL clubs screaming for points deductions as if they are not motivated by the same self interest as the other 6.

 

[Rightnr]

Honestly, the punishment is beyond obvious. They did it for money, so hit them where it hurts.

Let them in the EL/CL but give them 0% or 20% of all revenue proceeds and redistribute to poorer clubs.

This way the fans enjoy the competition but we make no money and the Glazers get nothing. You can do something similar for the PL.

 

[Traub]

It's on life support true but if you think the clubs involved are going to accept any kind of ban you are dreaming. Revenue drove this project in the first place and all of these clubs have lost a fortune due to COVID. Take away their CL revenue even for 1 year and you practically force them to make their own competition.

Yeah UEFA is a bit stuck here. I'm not sure how club voting works within UEFA, but I think something like observer status (i.e. no voting within UEFA) for these 12 for a few years together with a reasonable fine should be enough.

 

[peridigm]

The likes of Perez, Glazers and co should be punished, not the players!

Or the fans. How is any punishment to the owners or club going to not be a punishment to the players and fans.

Fines - Would limit transfers, fans and players suffer, club loses money.
Docked points - Lose out on CL next season, club loses money, limits transfers
Transfer ban - Does not directly punish the owners as they don't have to spend money. Fans and players suffer instead.
No CL/EL for next season - Punishes all involved. Club loses money. Fans and players lose the experience.

What else has been suggested?

 

[alexthelion]

I'm all for docking points at the beginning of next season.

Why? We didn't leave or had no intention of leaving the PL, therefore no sanctions whatever should be applied.

 

[Gandalf]

Honestly, the punishment is beyond obvious. They did it for money, so hit them where it hurts.

Let them in the EL/CL but give them 0% or 20% of all revenue proceeds and redistribute to poorer clubs.

This way the fans enjoy the competition but we make no money and the Glazers get nothing. You can do something similar for the PL.

The biggest complaint these clubs have is that their slice of the revenue is not enough and to some extent they have a case as most football writers have acknowledged over the last few days, they went about it completely the wrong way but that does not mean they do not have valid concerns. If they are punished by the reduction or withdrawal of revenue this might satisfy some small minded need for retribution in the short term but will also exponentially increase the likelihood of another attempt and one which will almost certainly be better thought out and more likely to be permanent. The right approach is to craft rules and legislation to reduce the power of these clubs whilst at the same time making a genuine attempt to address their concerns. The long term goal has to be the sustainability of Domestic and European competition in something as close as possible to it's current format, punitive and inflammatory actions will harm the chances of this happening and turn the last 48 hours into a truly pyrrhic victory.

 

[Tallis]

Honestly, the punishment is beyond obvious. They did it for money, so hit them where it hurts.

Let them in the EL/CL but give them 0% or 20% of all revenue proceeds and redistribute to poorer clubs.

This way the fans enjoy the competition but we make no money and the Glazers get nothing. You can do something similar for the PL.

I have news for you. All the football players play the game for money, they negotiate their contracts for more money. UEFA try to make more money by having more games in competitions.

So why should the 6 clubs be punished for trying to make more money ?

 

[Tallis]

United, Europa League Legends.

Panthere du Nde, the........................who exactly are they ?

 

[Erebus]

The difference here has been explained many many times, it is that clubs or companies are normally punished as an entity due to the entire entity profiting from whatever rules they broke (a la Juventus), or a CEO cheating the stock market and driving up stocks for the company.
An entire company isn’t punished for insider trading for example, just the individual.
First of all apparently a court has already said that no rule has been broken here and second of all which is most important, no club or team profited on or off the pitch.

But that isn't my point. I do understand that when legal sanctions come into play it's different. But for internal football matters clubs (and by extension the fans and players) are often 'punished'. No-one acted illegally when the local FA screwed up the paperwork, but the club were still thrown out of the FA Vase and so fans were punished. No -one acted illegally when a non leageue team didn't have a lock on their changing room toilet doors, but the club were thrown out of the league (and in terms of this thread the players and fans were punished). I'm not talking about legal spheres, I'm talking about the way football has always acted against clubs when someone (sometimes not even the club) has broken some ( in many cases minor) infringement of league or FA rules, whether the individual club has been responsible or not. And in the cases I've cited the club, and not individuals, were acted against.

 

[Tallis]

I just want to also mention that the clubs haven’t actually done anything that would infringe “rules”. We haven’t played in a non UEFA sanctioned league. If we expressed interest to do something but immediately rescinded our interest to do such act, we should not be held liable for having done the act.

 

[crossy1686]

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Yeah let's kick them out of the CL and put them all in a league where they're forced to play each other instead. That will teach them!

 

[crossy1686]

The likes of Perez, Glazers and co should be punished, not the players!

This is just too obvious of a solution unfortunately. People want to see clubs relegated so the 99% of people not involved are the one's that actually suffer. Do people seriously think the Glazers will stop taking dividends in United were in the conference? Guess we sure showed them eh!?

 

[Rightnr]

I have news for you. All the football players play the game for money, they negotiate their contracts for more money. UEFA try to make more money by having more games in competitions.

So why should the 6 clubs be punished for trying to make more money ?

I also have news for you. You are in the thread about punishing those clubs.

I am not arguing for or against punishment, I am saying how I'd punish them. And I won't even bother arguing if a punishment should be applied because I don't know the laws and regulations.

 

[Random Task]

If the humiliation of backing down a mere 48 hours after joining the league isn't punishment enough, then turning large portions of their fanbases against themselves (hurting commercial revenue in the process) along with damaging their reputations to an irreparable state, should about cover it.

At the end of the day, the only people they hurt with this nonsense is themselves.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

They PL can't exactly punish teams for something that didnt end up happening. And if they do it's only going to increase tensions which is the opposite of what they want.

As for Uefa and their possible European sanctions.....How do you impose a ban on the 6 teams? They could throw out the 4 English teams remaining in Europe but then there's what to do with Liverpool and Spurs. Also Spurs and Arsenal may well not even qualify for Europe next season anyway so where's the punishment in that?

Nothing will happen other than some fines. Uefa and PL won't want any further unrest.

 

[sincher]

We should be forced to play Joel Glazer in goal in all European competitions, both to punish us and to give players the opportunity to kick things at him very hard.

 

[do.ob]

They PL can't exactly punish teams for something that didnt end up happening. And if they do it's only going to increase tensions which is the opposite of what they want.

As for Uefa and their possible European sanctions.....How do you impose a ban on the 6 teams? They could throw out the 4 English teams remaining in Europe but then there's what to do with Liverpool and Spurs. Also Spurs and Arsenal may well not even qualify for Europe next season anyway so where's the punishment in that?

Nothing will happen other than some fines. Uefa and PL won't want any further unrest.

Why do people keep saying that? Signing contracts is "something happening", even if they are broken afterwards.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Why do people keep saying that? Signing contracts is "something happening", even if they are broken afterwards.

These papers could have been signed on tissue paper with the credibility we're hearing about them. The clubs don't seem worried at all from backing out so i don't think these documents are as official as Perez made them out to be. He did after all spaff a load of other lies out during the same new conference.

So it's not quite black and white is it?

Example: If you were going to cheat on your wife with a woman at work and backed out on the way to meet her would she still leave you? You've intended to cheat but you haven't actually gone through with it.

I don't think there will be any real substantial punishments. Not sure how you can either given not all the 6 clubs are looking like qualifying for Europe anyway.

 

[crossy1686]

There's an easy way around this, all owners must reside within the UK and have regular meetings with certified fan groups.

 

[Freeney]

Honestly, the punishment is beyond obvious. They did it for money, so hit them where it hurts.

Let them in the EL/CL but give them 0% or 20% of all revenue proceeds and redistribute to poorer clubs.

This way the fans enjoy the competition but we make no money and the Glazers get nothing. You can do something similar for the PL.

Too much sense in this post.
Knowing how idiotic Uefa and the FA are, they’ll probably do something crazy.

 

[crossy1686]

Why do people keep saying that? Signing contracts is "something happening", even if they are broken afterwards.

They agreed a deal that they reneged on. If you sign up to Sky and cancel within the two week grace period before your Sky box was delivered, did you really ever have Sky?

 

[peridigm]

We should be forced to play Joel Glazer in goal in all European competitions, both to punish us and to give players the opportunity to kick things at him very hard.

Gladiator football. Make it happen uefa.

 

[Renegade]

How ridiculous would it look if Perez/Madrid win the UCL? Surely UEFA won’t want that?