How should the breakaway clubs be dealt with now?

[gajender]

I was completely against it on the grounds of a lack of meritocracy and would've hated seeing my club play in a competition that is 75% closed. But having said that, I also believe most if not all of the rest of the 14 teams would've done the same if the opportunity presented itself. Below is a great piece by Brian Reade on the hypocrisy of the Governing bodies, Sky, BT and the rest of the 14.

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Brian Reade: "The 14 Premier League clubs who didn't get the ESL invite have been rightly scathing about the Greedy Six, yet they voted to keep 93% of the current £8.65 billion TV deals that are in place, allowing little to trickle down the football pyramid they now claim to be so concerned about. It's why the grassroots game is on its knees".

They Pulled the same stunt when Pl was created by separating Division 1 from rest of the football Pyramid and negotiating their own TV deals.

Mate it's all hypocrisy and self preservation nothing more ,you can actually see it on here as well for all the talk of Sporting Merit and how this would kill football at Grassroots news flash it's already dying and not many cared about it or talked about it prior to this Super League announcements now suddenly all of us wants to Guardians of this beautiful game. PL riches have created an uneven field already and but these greedy Owners just went one step too far.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Exactly. Forget Sporting fan, even our fans use the same nonsense. We are more Europa club than CL club, when we have never failed to qualify for CL 2 years in a row.

And in the past 5 years, including this season, we'll have failed to qualify for the CL just once, yet "United usually play EL". Get to feck.

 

[Adnan]

They Pulled the same stunt when Pl was created by separating Division 1 from rest of the football Pyramid and negotiating their own TV deals.

Mate it's all hypocrisy and self preservation nothing more ,you can actually see it on here as well for all the talk of Sporting Merit and how this would kill football at Grassroots news flash it's already dying and not many cared about it or talked about it prior to this Super League announcements now suddenly all of us wants to Guardians of this beautiful game. PL riches have created an uneven field already and but these greedy Owners just went one step too far.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Abizzz]

Exactly. Forget Sporting fan, even our fans use the same nonsense. We are more Europa club than CL club, when we have never failed to qualify for CL 2 years in a row.

Playing in the EL after qualifying for the CL doesn't really help perceptions . Anyone calling United a EL club though is surely on the wind up.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

That's utter hyperbolic nonsense aint it.

Since Fergie left.

Year 1: CL
Year 2: EL
Year 3: CL
Year 4: EL
Year 5: CL
Year 6: CL
Year 7: EL
Year 8: CL
Year 9: CL pretty much guaranteed

We don't "usually play EL" ffs, that's 3 EL seasons and 6 CL seasons since the great man.

I genuinely can't remember if we ever went past the CL group stage other than with Jose.

 

[Zlatattack]

City and Spurs should be docked points. The rest i'm not fussed about.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I genuinely can't remember if we ever went past the CL group stage other than with Jose.

I'm sure you remember Evra sticking one in the top bin versus Bayern.

We've featured in 2 quarter finals and a round of 16 since SAF left.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

I'm sure you remember Evra sticking one in the top bin versus Bayern.

That is a good 8-9 years back, I think us being an EL team is not that far off the mark. It is embarrassing as well considering the great players we have had post LVG.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

That is a good 8-9 years back, I think us being an EL team is not that far off the mark. It is embarrassing as well considering the great players we have had post LVG.

Well it is far off the mark because we've featured in 3 of the last 4 Champions Leagues and are about to make it 4 from 5.

So yeah, it's fecking miles off the mark. Unless of course you're an elite snob who thinks the league stages don't count, which is surely an attitude everyone here is fighting against after recent days?

 

[gajender]

That is a good 8-9 years back, I think us being an EL team is not that far off the mark. It is embarrassing as well considering the great players we have had post LVG.

So you don't remember Our Infamous exit at Hands of Sevilla and Mourinho's heritage Rant or famous smash and Grab against Psg these are our most recent exploits prior to this season.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

So you don't remember Our Infamous exit at Hands of Sevilla and Mourinho's Rant or famous smash and Grab against Psg these are our most recent exploits prior to this season.

He's decided to forget all that so that he can consider us a EL team despite us being in the last 3 of 4 CL, and soon 4 of 5.

Because... well, United fans and self-loathing.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

So you don't remember Our Infamous exit at Hands of Sevilla and Mourinho's heritage Rant or famous smash and Grab against Psg these are our most recent exploits prior to this season.

I remember the PSG one, I genuinely don't remember the Sevilla campaign, did we play anyone good.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I remember the PSG one, I genuinely don't remember the Sevilla campaign, did we play anyone good.

There you go getting snobby about Champions League worthy sides and placements again.

 

[Adnan]

The fecks that turned a blind eye to the human suffering, posted below will decide the fate of the 'shameful 6'?. Hypocrites the lot of them and criminals to boot.

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[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The fecks that turned a blind eye to the human suffering, posted below will decide the fate of the 'shameful 6'. Hypocrites the lot of them and criminals to boot.

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Hey, but Neymar and Mbappe in the same side

And let's not forget, air conditioned stadia

 

[gajender]

He's decided to forget all that so that he can consider us a EL team despite us being in the last 3 of 4 CL, and soon 4 of 5.

Because... well, United fans and self-loathing.

Well one thing I have realised in past few days is some of the United Fans are Self loathing masochist with generous amount self righteousness thrown in for good measure, just look at all the seething rage and faux indignation about ESL debacle and coming up with absolute Bonker suggestions for Punishments where it's clear that despite what many deem to be reprehensible the Actions of these Club weren't in violation of any regulations.

 

[gajender]

I remember the PSG one, I genuinely don't remember the Sevilla campaign, did we play anyone good.

Not anyone good particularly but remember it due to Mourinho's Heritage talk after we were dumped out

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Well one thing I have realised in past few days is some of the United Fans are Self loathing masochist with generous amount self righteousness thrown in for good measure, just look at all the seething rage and faux indignation about ESL debacle and coming up with absolute Bonker suggestions for Punishments where it's clear that despite what many deem to be reprehensible the Actions of these Club weren't in violation of any regulations.

Oh yeah, I've heard many a United fan on here want to show how righteous he/she is by demanding a massive ban, or points deduction, or relegation. Bizarre bunch of fans we have.

Stranger still when absolutely no-one has profited from anything here, not financially and not on the pitch. In those situations, it is possible to actually sanction the people involved rather than the entire entity, that's what happens elsewhere in society, but the self loathers, some wanted United to have to start again from the bottom of the pile, a la Rangers

 

[Giggsyking]

I remember the PSG one, I genuinely don't remember the Sevilla campaign, did we play anyone good.

Are you even a UTD fan?

 

[Giggsyking]

Well one thing I have realised in past few days is some of the United Fans are Self loathing masochist with generous amount self righteousness thrown in for good measure, just look at all the seething rage and faux indignation about ESL debacle and coming up with absolute Bonker suggestions for Punishments where it's clear that despite what many deem to be reprehensible the Actions of these Club weren't in violation of any regulations.

this

 

[Enigma_87]

I'm sure you remember Evra sticking one in the top bin versus Bayern.

We've featured in 2 quarter finals and a round of 16 since SAF left.

we even had the chance of eliminating Bayern under Moyes.

Yes, not a big chance but it felt like it when Evra scored that goal.

 

[Erebus]

I find this argument clubs should be punished but not the players and the fans really strange. Throughout the history of football clubs and fans have been punished for the actions of owners and others. For example the fans and players were punished for profligate owners at Bury - the fans didn't bankrupt the club the owners did. Recently the FA threw a club out of the FA Vase, even thought the local FA admitted it was their fault that admin hadn't been done right, not the clubs - but the club (and players and fans) were punished. It's standard practice across football and has been for many, many years. Whether it's right or not is another issue, but it is the standard way football operates. I think we need to be careful we don't come across as demanding special treatment here.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Then what are you going to punish them for If there is nothing illegal?

For intention of breakaway from existing football structure, which is essentially a breakaway from jurisdiction under rule of FIFA/UEFA/FA, hence complete destroy of existing structure of football competition, and devaluing the history and prestige of European football, against spirit of fair play with closed system, with only possible entry by invitation only, which is driven by money under their total manipulation, and adversely affects the economy and survival of hundreds of other smaller clubs.

The impact/damage from their actions to the football world could be far worse than any possible “illegal” thing they could have done.

 

[Rooney1987]

Guardian saying UEFA are considering imposing sanctions. If we get thrown out of the CL next season, what happens if Liverpool or Chelsea don’t make it? So they don’t get punished at all. I know some have suggested “next time they qualify they get banned” has that ever been a punishment before?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I find this argument clubs should be punished but not the players and the fans really strange. Throughout the history of football clubs and fans have been punished for the actions of owners and others. For example the fans and players were punished for profligate owners at Bury - the fans didn't bankrupt the club the owners did. Recently the FA threw a club out of the FA Vase, even thought the local FA admitted it was their fault that admin hadn't been done right, not the clubs - but the club (and players and fans) were punished. It's standard practice across football and has been for many, many years. Whether it's right or not is another issue, but it is the standard way football operates. I think we need to be careful we don't come across as demanding special treatment here.

The difference here has been explained many many times, it is that clubs or companies are normally punished as an entity due to the entire entity profiting from whatever rules they broke (a la Juventus), or a CEO cheating the stock market and driving up stocks for the company.
An entire company isn’t punished for insider trading for example, just the individual.
First of all apparently a court has already said that no rule has been broken here and second of all which is most important, no club or team profited on or off the pitch.

 

[TheReligion]

Guardian saying UEFA are considering imposing sanctions. If we get thrown out of the CL next season, what happens if Liverpool or Chelsea don’t make it? So they don’t get punished at all. I know some have suggested “next time they qualify they get banned” has that ever been a punishment before?

I can bet you that won't happen. You only have to look at what UEFA said yesterday to know that.

 

[TheReligion]

The difference here has been explained many many times, it is that clubs or companies are normally punished as an entity due to the entire entity profiting from whatever rules they broke (a la Juventus), or a CEO cheating the stock market and driving up stocks for the company.
An entire company isn’t punished for insider trading for example, just the individual.
First of all apparently a court has already said that no rule has been broken here and second of all which is most important, no club or team profited on or off the pitch.

I'm sure the majority of posters on here at the moment are thick given they can't see the difference.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Well one thing I have realised in past few days is some of the United Fans are Self loathing masochist with generous amount self righteousness thrown in for good measure, just look at all the seething rage and faux indignation about ESL debacle and coming up with absolute Bonker suggestions for Punishments where it's clear that despite what many deem to be reprehensible the Actions of these Club weren't in violation of any regulations.

I think it’s indicative of society these days.

just jumping on everything to criticise it, abs always looking at the worst case scenario - and often wanting it! The caf is notorious for it. Just look at the abuse our players get. Some people just hate everything.

 

[Boavista]

That's utter hyperbolic nonsense aint it.

Since Fergie left.

Year 1: CL
Year 2: EL
Year 3: CL
Year 4: EL
Year 5: CL
Year 6: CL
Year 7: EL
Year 8: CL
Year 9: CL pretty much guaranteed

We don't "usually play EL" ffs, that's 3 EL seasons and 6 CL seasons since the great man.

Didn't United miss out on Europe entirely in year 2 (14/15)? Finishing in 7th place under Moyes the season before

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Didn't United miss out on Europe entirely in year 2 (14/15)? Finishing in 7th place under Moyes the season before

Oh yeah, so in fact, even less of a EL team then.
2 EL seasons and soon 6 CL seasons.

 

[Boavista]

Oh yeah, so in fact, even less of a EL team then.
2 EL seasons and soon 6 CL seasons.

I think dropping down to EL still has to count for something, so 2 (4) EL seasons

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I think dropping down to EL still has to count for something, so 2 (4) EL seasons

Why does it have to count for something?

Are you not a Champions League team if you’re in the Champions League?
Have United not been in three of the last four Champions Leagues?

Are you more of a Champions League team then if you finish bottom of your group every year?

 

[Enigma_87]

Guardian saying UEFA are considering imposing sanctions. If we get thrown out of the CL next season, what happens if Liverpool or Chelsea don’t make it? So they don’t get punished at all. I know some have suggested “next time they qualify they get banned” has that ever been a punishment before?

Most likely they will be thrown out of EL, which is kinda uneven penalty. You can't put a contingency like that (next time they qualify), it will be thrown out of UEFA competitions not CL/EL per say.

 

[Boavista]

Why does it have to count for something?

Are you not a Champions League team if you’re in the Champions League?
Have United not been in three of the last four Champions Leagues?

Are you more of a Champions League team then if you finish bottom of your group every year?

It's not that important, I just thought it doesn't sound right to say 2 EL seasons, when United's had 4 seasons where they played in it.

If you look at the other way round, since Fergie left, United have been in the knockout stages of the EL 4 times, and 3 times in the knockout stages of the CL.

 

[TheReligion]

It's not that important, I just thought it doesn't sound right to say 2 EL seasons, when United's had 4 seasons where they played in it.

If you look at the other way round, since Fergie left, United have been in the knockout stages of the EL 4 times, and 3 times in the knockout stages of the CL.

What's your point here?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It's not that important, I just thought it doesn't sound right to say 2 EL seasons, when United's had 4 seasons where they played in it.

If you look at the other way round, since Fergie left, United have been in the knockout stages of the EL 4 times, and 3 times in the knockout stages of the CL.

Look at it whatever way you like, United have been in 5 CLs (soon 6) since Fergie left and soon will have been in 4 of the last 5.

Ergo, CL team. Unless of course you're another elite snob who thinks the CL groups don't count?

If United had finished bottom of the CL group every year it'd be 2 appearance in the EL and soon 6 in the CL. Would that suddenly make us "more of a CL team"?

Only twice have we "qualified for the EL" and therefore were a EL team.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Seem apparent that 12 of the wealthiest clubs attempted something of a coup and fell spectacularly on their faces.

This has resulted in resignations, reputational damage, the loss of key positions within UEFA, the burning of bridges with their fellow clubs and a near-unprecedented amount of negative publicity, in what was probably the most significant 48 hours in football for generations.

How should these clubs be dealt with going forward? Should they face punishment and if so, what? Should they all be treated equally or should the ring-leaders face harsher punishment? What measures can/should be put in place to ensure this bullshit doesn't happen again?

Hand over this seasons CL to PSG....

 

[gajender]

I think it’s indicative of society these days.

just jumping on everything to criticise it, abs always looking at the worst case scenario - and often wanting it! The caf is notorious for it. Just look at the abuse our players get. Some people just hate everything.

Agree with you on most part, everybody overreacts from time to time and we do make snap judgements due to emotions as well but after things calm down we should be able to act rationally and see things for what they are not allowing our biases and prejudices to colour our judgements.

No doubt what our Club tried to pull off was reprehensible but it wasn't in violations of any current regulations of Either PL or UEFA as far as what I have understood from information available publically on this Subject.

Just because some of the posters here have descended into frenzy and are demanding punishments just on moral grounds doesn't mean it's the way forward .
By all means punish these Clubs if they have breached some existing laws which I don't think they have but don't do it arbitrarily and excessively just because public sentiment demands so.

 

[Boavista]

Look at it whatever way you like, United have been in 5 CLs (soon 6) since Fergie left and soon will have been in 4 of the last 5.

Ergo, CL team. Unless of course you're another elite snob who thinks the CL groups don't count?

If United had finished bottom of the CL group every year it'd be 2 appearance in the EL and soon 6 in the CL. Would that suddenly make us "more of a CL team"?

Only twice have we "qualified for the EL" and therefore were a EL team.

I never made that point to begin with, are you confusing me with someone else?

And yeah that is definitely a weird aspect of dropping down from the CL. I was simply pointing out that it's not entirely arbitrary to say that United have more prominently featured in the latter stages of the Europa League, even if they've had more CL seasons. I wasn't making an observation on whether or not that makes United a CL team.

Of course group stages count, but knockout stages are more memorable I suppose.

 

[sullydnl]

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