Julian Nagelsmann | Sacked and replaced by Tuchel

[do.ob]

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/news/...men-exit-after-impressive-campaign-446238.jsp

Yes and the idea is that this release option was a product of Bayern helping Werder sign him in the first place.

https://www.bavarianfootballworks.c...emen-transfer-west-bromwich-albion-bundesliga

 

[JPRouve]

Yes and the idea is that this release option was a product of Bayern helping Werder sign him in the first place.

https://www.bavarianfootballworks.c...emen-transfer-west-bromwich-albion-bundesliga

That's classic Wenger after the fact. The only thing that is definitely true is that Gnabry asked for a clause and got it which is how Bayern signed him from Werder not Arsenal.

 

[kaiser1]

True about Serie A, but it was just for a couple of seasons when Italian teams were broke, totally different to Bundesliga where clubes are healthy but still are happy to sell for cheap to Bayern.

In Spain I don't think it's the case, Atletico didn't happily sold Griezmann, they were forced to and still sold him for a huge sum.

Nevermind England, how often do star players get traded between the top 6?

Which player was "happily" sold to Bayern

 

[Sweet Square]

The goal posts and the points you appear to be trying to make are shifting so quickly I find it hard to keep up.

Tbf You've missed out the important part of Poch not actually going to United. While he fecked off to PSG for a numbers of different reasons, some United fans debating online is slightly different than Bayren getting a manager from the team second in the Bundesliga.

 

[Suedesi]

It happened in Italy during the best years of Serie A in the 90s early 2000s, you even have some comical transfers like Inter swapping Pirlo to Milan. And which Bayern rival happily sold a player to Bayern?

Ibra, Seedorf, Pirlo, Luis Ronaldo, Crespo, Bobo Vieri, Roby Baggio, Balotelli, Favalli, Pazzini, Cassano just a few players that have donned Inter and AC Milan colors, some directly going from one to the other.

 

[do.ob]

That's classic Wenger after the fact. The only thing that is definitely true is that Gnabry asked for a clause and got it which is how Bayern signed him from Werder not Arsenal.

This had legs years before Wenger complained, e.g. Kicker wrote at the announcement that Bayern had paid for the transfer and had the option to sign him a year after.

 

[kaiser1]

I would probably help if Bayern's domestic rivals didnt let all there best talent go to Bayern for buttons.

30mill for hummels from there biggest rivals, 30 mill for pavard? Gortekza on a free?

For comparison we would have to pay 60million plus to make similar signings from our domestic rivals that's if we could actually get them in the first place.

Lepzig might do the league some good they can at least compete financially with Bayern and wont allow bayern to hoover up all the best talent.

The French league was dominated by Lyon in the 00's they won loads and loads of titles on the bounce and the rest of the league started stagnating, PSG came in with the oil money and broke the cycle. Unfortunately Lyon cant compete with PSG now but I dint think it will come to that in the german league.

If it wasnt for the oil money coming into the premier league with City and Chelsea we would probably still be dominating the league but it's now a ultra competitive league where there are 5-6 clubs with the resources to realistically compete for the title.

The big clubs have attempted to monopolise leagues in there favour and the only way to counteract it is to fight fire with fire, I'm not saying I agree with it or it's the right thing to do but it's better than a monopolized league.

Hummels has a year left on his contract at Dortmund
Pavard relegated with Stuttgart when Bayern bought him
Goretzka left Schalke on a free the same way Kolasinac left for Arsenal

 

[uamini]

Goretzka - free (market value at the time was 40M)
Gnabry - 8M (market value at the time was 20M)
Pavard - 30M ( (market value at the time was 35M)
Hummels - 35M ( (market value at the time was 38M)
Lewandowski - free (market value at the time was 50M)
Mario Gotze - 37M (market value at the time was 45M)
Mandzukic - 13M (market value was 14M)
Dante - 4.5M ( market value at the time was 8M)
Neuer - 30M (market value at the time was 28M)
Upamecano - 42M (market value at the time was 60M)

So basically all their big signings from the last 10 years from the bundesliga were either free or below their market value.

Anyone claiming Bayern doesnt have a special condition in germany is fooling himself.

Pavard, Götze, Dante, Upamecano all had release clauses and Gnabry was a done deal a year before he had his great year in Bremen so he wasn't particularly cheap at that moment. Guys like Götze, Hummels and Neuer went for record-breaking Bundesliga fees so Bayern paid a fair price then.
So if anything you could argue that Bundesliga teams set their release clauses way too low (a valid point) and that Bayern was fortunate enough to get two fantastic players for free when their contracts ran out. They would have paid a nice amount for Lewandowski though but Dortmund felt like it would be safer to keep him one more year and have better odds to reach the CL.

 

[Boavista]

Yes, but I think we can agree theres a big difference between Spurs and ManUtd, one is the biggest club in the country and the other one is just popular. To put in a correct perspective it would be as if in the season City won the title they would have paid Liverpool and take Klopp and VVD.

Bayern took the arguably 2 most important people in their closest competitor squad. I mean we can paint it how we want but bottom line is Bundesliga clubs are feeders to Bayern. This is not a one time thing, they have done it repeatedly over the years. One thing is to buy players from lesser clubs which all top teams do, a whole different thing is to buy players from straight competitors for peanuts as bayern does.

Most players in the bundesliga dream to play for Bayern, that along with the fact that there isnt really any other big club there results in every player weting their pants when Bayern shows interest putting the other clubs in a massive disadvantage. Is as if you do well enough in the league maybe Bayern will buy you.

Dont believe me? let me mention some examples from recent years.

Goretzka - free (market value at the time was 40M)
Gnabry - 8M (market value at the time was 20M)
Pavard - 30M ( (market value at the time was 35M)
Hummels - 35M ( (market value at the time was 38M)
Lewandowski - free (market value at the time was 50M)
Mario Gotze - 37M (market value at the time was 45M)
Mandzukic - 13M (market value was 14M)
Dante - 4.5M ( market value at the time was 8M)
Neuer - 30M (market value at the time was 28M)
Upamecano - 42M (market value at the time was 60M)

So basically all their big signings from the last 10 years from the bundesliga were either free or below their market value. Some might say hey they have great negotiators they get great deals, well it seems it justs happens in germany. When they buy from outside is a different story.

Javi Martinez - 40M (market value at the time was 30M)
Bernat - 10M (market value at the time was 4M)
Douglas Costa - 32M (market value at the time was 23M)
Renato Sanches - 35M (market value at the time was 20M)
Tolisso - 41.5M (market value at the time was 22M)
Lucas Hernandez - 80M (market value at the time was 70M)

Anyone claiming Bayern doesnt have a special condition in germany is fooling himself.

Ignoring the fact that those selling clubs don't let players go to Bayern on a free or release clause on purpose, Bayern aren't the only beneficiary of low transfer fees in the Bundesliga. For a long time I think players' prices there were simply lower than elsewhere in general. Perhaps because not a lot of clubs abroad were paying attention to Bundesliga players until a few years ago? Transfers between clubs in the Bundesliga used to be cheap, because clubs there aren't rich, so that might have resulted in a separate market basically. Comparing that to the Premier League isn't very useful.

Bayern routinely sell their players for very little, Kagawa to United was also below market value, Gundogan only cost 27m euros, Brandt went for half his market value, Alcacer was sold well below his (if you believe transfermarkt), Nuri Sahin to Madrid 10m. Besides, market value on transfermarkt itself is a fairly arbitrary number, and doesn't take contract length into account at all for instance.

 

[kaiser1]

They bought Gnabry from Werder, if I remember correctly it's Gnabry that played it well, Werder bought him for cheap and he demanded a very low clause in his contract since he was in demand at that price but wanted game time.

Bayern basically paid for Gnabry from Arsenal and "parked" him at Bremen

 

[Suedesi]

Yes, but I think we can agree theres a big difference between Spurs and ManUtd, one is the biggest club in the country and the other one is just popular. To put in a correct perspective it would be as if in the season City won the title they would have paid Liverpool and take Klopp and VVD.

Bayern took the arguably 2 most important people in their closest competitor squad. I mean we can paint it how we want but bottom line is Bundesliga clubs are feeders to Bayern. This is not a one time thing, they have done it repeatedly over the years. One thing is to buy players from lesser clubs which all top teams do, a whole different thing is to buy players from straight competitors for peanuts as bayern does.

Most players in the bundesliga dream to play for Bayern, that along with the fact that there isnt really any other big club there results in every player weting their pants when Bayern shows interest putting the other clubs in a massive disadvantage. Is as if you do well enough in the league maybe Bayern will buy you.

Dont believe me? let me mention some examples from recent years.

Goretzka - free (market value at the time was 40M)
Gnabry - 8M (market value at the time was 20M)
Pavard - 30M ( (market value at the time was 35M)
Hummels - 35M ( (market value at the time was 38M)
Lewandowski - free (market value at the time was 50M)
Mario Gotze - 37M (market value at the time was 45M)
Mandzukic - 13M (market value was 14M)
Dante - 4.5M ( market value at the time was 8M)
Neuer - 30M (market value at the time was 28M)
Upamecano - 42M (market value at the time was 60M)

So basically all their big signings from the last 10 years from the bundesliga were either free or below their market value. Some might say hey they have great negotiators they get great deals, well it seems it justs happens in germany. When they buy from outside is a different story.

Javi Martinez - 40M (market value at the time was 30M)
Bernat - 10M (market value at the time was 4M)
Douglas Costa - 32M (market value at the time was 23M)
Renato Sanches - 35M (market value at the time was 20M)
Tolisso - 41.5M (market value at the time was 22M)
Lucas Hernandez - 80M (market value at the time was 70M)

Anyone claiming Bayern doesnt have a special condition in germany is fooling himself.

If the perceive market value of a player is higher than the clause which Bayern triggered (and so could any other club), why didn't United trigger the clause and earn a profit right there and then? If Upamecano's perceived mkt value is 60m, but he's got a clause for 42m where was our DOF? Scouting Maguire for 80m quid?

 

[Longshanks]

Hummels was a Bayern player sold to Dortmund and he wanted to comeback with only one year left on his contract, it's a similar situation to RVP who was sold for less than 30m to United. Pavard had a clause on his contract and Stuttgart weren't rivals but relegation contenders, they have not been good in more than 10 years. Goretzka was a prospect who refused to extend for Schalke who are astonishingly incompetent.

As for Ligue 1, the league didn't stagnate due to Lyon that's completely nonsensical, in the 2000s France had an issue with player development and clubs weren't producing as many quality players, a bias in favor of athleticism over technique, funnily enough Lyon were one of the few clubs that didn't really follow that trend and produced good players during that period of time. PSG has also nothing to do with breaking the cycle, PSG won their first title of the QSI era 5 years after Lyon won their last title, Bordeaux, Lilles, Marseille and Montpellier won the league before PSG. And the reason behind the end of the cycle is that Lyon was planning for their new stadium and sports complex, they were supposed to rely on their academy and a bunch of signings that they made around 2009-2010, the issue being that most of these players underwelmed and Lyon didn't had the money to repair their mistakes.

There are plenty of other examples of players moving from german club to bayern for not alot of money, yet there's is always some excuse for it, for me there domestic rivals dont renew the contracts of there top assets and seem to just let them run down allowing for the big fish to come in and buy on the realitie cheap.

Havent bayern just bought Upamenco for 37m? He is worth 2.5 times that what's the excuse for that one? And that's from Lepzig who are rich, its almost like there is something going on in the background that means Bayern get cushy deals on all the best talent in the german league. It's been happening for 20 years if not longer.

You have had my pants down with the french league stuff though i didnt research it before posting so iv got no excuse for that.

 

[kaiser1]

There are plenty of other examples of players moving from german club to bayern for not alot of money, yet there's is always some excuse for it, for me there domestic rivals dont renew the contracts of there top assets and seem to just let them run down allowing for the big fish to come in and buy on the realitie cheap.

Havent bayern just bought Upamenco for 37m? He is worth 2.5 times that what's the excuse for that one? And that's from Lepzig who are rich, its almost like there is something going on in the background that means Bayern get cushy deals on all the best talent in the german league. It's been happening for 20 years if not longer.

You have had my pants down with the french league stuff though i didnt research it before posting so iv got no excuse for that.

How much did Chelsea get Werner from the same Leipzig? Dont you think Chelsea got a cushy deal for one of the top strikers in the Buli

 

[MUFC OK]

Nail on the head.

We were once an elite club on the field and off the field (commercial side). Sadly these days we're only elite on a commercial field, the football side is a disaster and has been since Fergie and Gill retired.

Bayern are amazingly well run. KHR has done an outstanding job, looks like the transition plan is well thought out with Oli Kahn and in appointing a young promising coach they are putting themselves in a good position. One bad appointment is all it takes to lose the winning streak, ask Juventus re: Pirlo.

I’ve been saying for years that our decline is somewhat akin to a Bayern or Real falling off a cliff and it’s clear that if they had one season as poor as the majority of the ones we’ve had since SAF, they’d be in the transfer market seriously bolstering their squads, probably making changes behind the scenes too.

To me is nigh on impossible that we close the gap on city and actually win the league for one reason - ambition. We have it as fans, Ole has it I’m sure but we’re left with the same group season on season and are hoping for a miracle from our academy to produce world beaters because the owners simply would rather pocket our revenues than invest (on the calibre of players required) to compete. That is the story of Utd in the last 8 years and until the Glazers are gone.

 

[Boavista]

There are plenty of other examples of players moving from german club to bayern for not alot of money, yet there's is always some excuse for it, for me there domestic rivals dont renew the contracts of there top assets and seem to just let them run down allowing for the big fish to come in and buy on the realitie cheap.

Havent bayern just bought Upamenco for 37m? He is worth 2.5 times that what's the excuse for that one? And that's from Lepzig who are rich, its almost like there is something going on in the background that means Bayern get cushy deals on all the best talent in the german league. It's been happening for 20 years if not longer.

You have had my pants down with the french league stuff though i didnt research it before posting so iv got no excuse for that.

The excuse there is that Upamecano's contract ran till 2021 so could have gone for free. However he signed a new contract last summer with that lowish release clause.

But yeah, Bundesliga clubs routinely ask for too little compared to clubs in other leagues, or fail to renew contracts, but that's not just regarding Bayern transfers. Why would players renew if they can ask for so much more when they move abroad or to Bayern?

Look at all the players Schalke lost on a free to the Premier League: Matip, Kolasinac, Coupo-Moting, Fuchs, Meyer, Holtby and probably forgetting some. On top of that lots of players for next to nothing to other clubs and leagues

 

[Cheimoon]

There are plenty of other examples of players moving from german club to bayern for not alot of money, yet there's is always some excuse for it, for me there domestic rivals dont renew the contracts of there top assets and seem to just let them run down allowing for the big fish to come in and buy on the realitie cheap.

Havent bayern just bought Upamenco for 37m? He is worth 2.5 times that what's the excuse for that one? And that's from Lepzig who are rich, its almost like there is something going on in the background that means Bayern get cushy deals on all the best talent in the german league. It's been happening for 20 years if not longer.

You have had my pants down with the french league stuff though i didnt research it before posting so iv got no excuse for that.

Bayern used Upamecano's release clause. Do you think Leipzig established that value to please Bayern?

 

[Longshanks]

The excuse there is that Upamecano's contract ran till 2021 so could have gone for free. However he signed a new contract last summer with that lowish release clause.

But yeah, Bundesliga clubs routinely ask for too little compared to clubs in other leagues, or fail to renew contracts, but that's not just regarding Bayern transfers. Why would players renew if they can ask for so much more when they move abroad or to Bayern?

Look at all the players Schalke lost on a free to the Premier League: Matip, Kolasinac, Coupo-Moting, Fuchs, Meyer, Holtby and probably forgetting some. On top of that lots of players for next to nothing to other clubs and leagues

Bayern used Upamecano's release clause. Do you think Leipzig established that value to please Bayern?

In a word yes I do, although the excuse is that his contract was running out (there's a surprise) and to get him to sign and rather than risk losing him for free they set a realese clause well below market value. And of course its Bayern who get to sign one of the top players from one of there rivals in a cut price deal.

In any other big league it dosent happen all too often but the german league it happens alot.

Who's gonna be the next big talent in the german league that bayern get on the cheap, probably because of some clause or contract running down blah blah blah rinse repeat, like I said been happening for years.

 

[Lagger]

And instead of being 400m EUR in debt like Real or 980m EUR in debt like Barcelona

This bit right here, that's the problem. By all rights, both Barca and Madrid should be bust and down to amateur club level multiple times. But it seems they can't go enough into debt to justify it, ever. And even if they do, someone will come up with a scheme to bail them out, and it wouldn't surprise me if UEFA wouldn't be the driving force of such a deal. If City didn't pump billions into players, driving prices up to ridiculous prices, if Madrid, Barca and PSG didn't happily join in on the cash spending spree (that they don't have), we wouldn't be in this position. The players would be more spread out, every meaningful club would have their one or two star players.

Alas, since the Galacticos, it's every DoF's wet dream to create the next Galacticos... how nice. And this is fueled by EA FIFA Game logic, shinier name equals more titles. Uh, that's not how it works in the real world. I've been waiting for this insane bubble to burst for over ten years now, it ain't happening I thought, but maybe the ESL is the last death struggle at least for the teams outside of the EPL (cos that TV contract is going to finance every foolish endeavour, no matter how pointless it is).

I would probably help if Bayern's domestic rivals didnt let all there best talent go to Bayern for buttons.

30mill for hummels from there biggest rivals, 30 mill for pavard? Gortekza on a free?

While this is absolutely true, and some might go for the low hanging fruit and say it's the fault of the BL clubs (I have made that argument myself in the past), there is a more subtle aspect to this that people often don't realise or dismiss... it's not so much that Bayern goes for "that prime player" as much as they have a list of priorities and often enough they just go down that list until someone meets their demand and is at an affordable price. I'm sure like any club on this planet, Bayern have thought about Neymar as a good signing. But we all know his price is just ridiculous. So they went for Thiago instead, and turns out he's a decent player, too. Who'da thunk? They do this in the BL as well. It's amusing to hear people talk about Bayern's "poaching" and being able to counter almost every single argument with "Well, club shoulda put the buyout clause higher". Cos that's the problem. Now why is that? Could it just be that the players are already having Bayern in the back of their head? I refuse to believe every single top club in Germany is incompetent. I think it's far more likely that players want to keep the option open for themselves. Hmm... something to think about, not a real judgement. Just interesting...

 

[SAFMUTD]

Which player was "happily" sold to Bayern

Upamecano for a start, may not be "happily" but was cheap as hell.

 

[Longshanks]

How much did Chelsea get Werner from the same Leipzig? Dont you think Chelsea got a cushy deal for one of the top strikers in the Buli

47million was it? Which is more than Bayern have ever paid to a fellow German club. Remarkable.

 

[Acrobat7]

Upamecano for a start, may not be "happily" but was cheap as hell.

You do realize that he left via a release clause that any club could have triggered, right?

 

[SAFMUTD]

Pavard, Götze, Dante, Upamecano all had release clauses and Gnabry was a done deal a year before he had his great year in Bremen so he wasn't particularly cheap at that moment. Guys like Götze, Hummels and Neuer went for record-breaking Bundesliga fees so Bayern paid a fair price then.
So if anything you could argue that Bundesliga teams set their release clauses way too low (a valid point) and that Bayern was fortunate enough to get two fantastic players for free when their contracts ran out. They would have paid a nice amount for Lewandowski though but Dortmund felt like it would be safer to keep him one more year and have better odds to reach the CL.

Well they might set their release clauses way too low the funny thing is it seems only Bayern takes advantage of that. Just look at Havertz and Werner, do you seriously think if Bayern was into them they would have had to pay the same amount Chelsea did?

About the "fortunate" to get players with their contracts running out, its not really luck at all. Bayern has been critiziced because they persuade players so they dont renew and they sign them for free.

 

[kaiser1]

Upamecano for a start, may not be "happily" but was cheap as hell.

What is the difference between Upamecano cheap and Werner by the same club if we are ignoring one is a striker and attacking players typical cost double what defenders do

 

[RedBanker]

Who needs the super league when Bayern got this despicable "arrangement" going on. Poach the best players and now coaches in the league and ensure that every other team remains below them. What a bunch of wankers. No wonder they didn't want to join the super league.

 

[kaiser1]

Well they might set their release clauses way too low the funny thing is it seems only Bayern takes advantage of that. Just look at Havertz and Werner, do you seriously think if Bayern was into them they would have had to pay the same amount Chelsea did?

About the "fortunate" to get players with their contracts running out, its not really luck at all. Bayern has been critiziced because they persuade players so they dont renew and they sign them for free.

These were release clauses and they are not set for Bayern alone, Any club can trigger a release clause like Chelsea did for Werner

 

[::sonny::]

It’s a shame

 

[SAFMUTD]

If the perceive market value of a player is higher than the clause which Bayern triggered (and so could any other club), why didn't United trigger the clause and earn a profit right there and then? If Upamecano's perceived mkt value is 60m, but he's got a clause for 42m where was our DOF? Scouting Maguire for 80m quid?

First because we are not the smartest club in the planet, thats clear and second because is not only triggering the clause and the player is yours. The player must want to join you, and the vast majority of the players in the bundesliga want to join Bayern. Like I said they have the great advantage that most german players are his fans, its easier to convince/attract a player who's dream is to play for you isnt it?

Any player from any team in the bundesliga wouldnt think twice about joining Bayern, its as if Bayern wants a player from there they can take him. Haaland for a change wont join them because they got Lewandowski, Sancho wont because he's english and they have his position covered. But as soon as Bayern needs a player from a Bundesliga team we all know they'll get him, and they'll get him cheaply.

 

[do.ob]

Well they might set their release clauses way too low the funny thing is it seems only Bayern takes advantage of that. Just look at Havertz and Werner, do you seriously think if Bayern was into them they would have had to pay the same amount Chelsea did?

About the "fortunate" to get players with their contracts running out, its not really luck at all. Bayern has been critiziced because they persuade players so they dont renew and they sign them for free.

No offense, but how delusional do you have to be to honestly believe clubs randomly give Bayern special discounts. Cheating themselves out of tens of millions. Havertz costing what he did was the reason why Bayern "wasn't interested", not the other way around. The same with de Bruyne or Sane when they moved to City.

 

[SAFMUTD]

What is the difference between Upamecano cheap and Werner by the same club if we are ignoring one is a striker and attacking players typical cost double what defenders do

First differente is that Werner wasnt wanted by half europe, Upamecano was. You seriously believe no other team was interested to take Upamecano for 35M? I mean we are talking about Pau Torres and Jules Kounde for fees around 60-70M but seriously no one besides Bayern was interested in a jewel like Upamecano for 35M? Without evidence but its pretty easy to imagine Upamecano had a previous agreement with Bayern thats why no other club could get him.

Im not blaming Bayern, they do their job obviously they are taking advantage of all the facilities they have. What amazes me is the fact that the other clubs are happy to be their feeders, I mean in England top clubs would rather sell overseas so they dont strenght their rivals while in the bundesliga they seem happy to let Bayern take their best players. As if they dont care they are strengtening their rival.

 

[Solskjær's Red Army]

Mehh... I haven't seen anything special with him so far. Villas Boas mk2. Ole beat him 5-0 and is better anyway.

I really believe him or any other manager couldn't have done what Ole did here.

 

[Cheimoon]

First differente is that Werner wasnt wanted by half europe, Upamecano was. You seriously believe no other team was interested to take Upamecano for 35M? I mean we are talking about Pau Torres and Jules Kounde for fees around 60-70M but seriously no one besides Bayern was interested in a jewel like Upamecano for 35M? Without evidence but its pretty easy to imagine Upamecano had a previous agreement with Bayern thats why no other club could get him.

Im not blaming Bayern, they do their job obviously they are taking advantage of all the facilities they have. What amazes me is the fact that the other clubs are happy to be their feeders, I mean in England top clubs would rather sell overseas so they dont strenght their rivals while in the bundesliga they seem happy to let Bayern take their best players. As if they dont care they are strengtening their rival.

That's the release clause. What can Leipzig do about it once it's been set? It's not like only Bayern would have been able to find out about its value. If Upamecano was so wanted across Europe, the right question is why no other club came from him early. As soon as the clause was set, everyone could have signed him for the 2021-22 season. It's not Leipzig's fault that only Bayern managed to make it work for them.

What you're suggesting here is that Bundesliga clubs are happy to strengthen Bayern. If that's really what you think, I think your posts might need medical attention. If not, you might reconsider how you're phrasing all this.

 

[SAFMUTD]

That's the release clause. What can Leipzig do about it once it's been set? It's not like only Bayern would have been able to find out about its value. If Upamecano was so wanted across Europe, the right question is why no other club came from him early. As soon as the clause was set, everyone could have signed him for the 2021-22 season. It's not Leipzig's fault that only Bayern managed to make it work for them.

What you're suggesting here is that Bundesliga clubs are happy to strengthen Bayern. If that's really what you think, I think your posts might need medical attention. If not, you might reconsider how you're phrasing all this.

If they're not happy to strengthen their rivals why do they keep letting their best players and now coaches join them?

They could sell overseas you know, most likely to a higher price. I think there's a kind of unwritten agreement between players, coaches and clubs that if Bayern comes calling they won't get in the way.

Leipzig's CEO recently said something similar about Nagelsmann, when they signed him they agreed it was Nagelsmann dream to manage Bayern so if the opportunity arises they wouldn't get in the way. Well that's just what happened.

 

[JPRouve]

First differente is that Werner wasnt wanted by half europe, Upamecano was. You seriously believe no other team was interested to take Upamecano for 35M? I mean we are talking about Pau Torres and Jules Kounde for fees around 60-70M but seriously no one besides Bayern was interested in a jewel like Upamecano for 35M? Without evidence but its pretty easy to imagine Upamecano had a previous agreement with Bayern thats why no other club could get him.

Im not blaming Bayern, they do their job obviously they are taking advantage of all the facilities they have. What amazes me is the fact that the other clubs are happy to be their feeders, I mean in England top clubs would rather sell overseas so they dont strenght their rivals while in the bundesliga they seem happy to let Bayern take their best players. As if they dont care they are strengtening their rival.

It doesn't make sense, Upamecano was free this summer why would he extend his contract last summer if he already had an agreement with Bayern?

 

[SAFMUTD]

It doesn't make sense, Upamecano was free this summer why would he extend his contract last summer if he already had an agreement with Bayern?

To my knowledge Upamecano's contract expired in 2023. If last summer his contract was to expire this summer for sure a bunch of clubs would had approached him.

 

[JPRouve]

To my knowledge Upamecano's contract expired in 2023. If last summer his contract was to expire this summer for sure a bunch of clubs would had approached him.

He extended last summer and his previous contract was expiring in 2021.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[uamini]

Well they might set their release clauses way too low the funny thing is it seems only Bayern takes advantage of that. Just look at Havertz and Werner, do you seriously think if Bayern was into them they would have had to pay the same amount Chelsea did?

About the "fortunate" to get players with their contracts running out, its not really luck at all. Bayern has been critiziced because they persuade players so they dont renew and they sign them for free.

They have certainly done that every now and then but like I said they were willing to spend a substantial amount on Lewandowski. It's not like they forced Dortmund to keep him one more year...hence they got lucky. And Lewandowski was reportedly not happy about having to play one more year in Dortmund.

And not only do I seriously think that Bayern would have had to pay the same amount as Chelsea, I actually know it since that's exactly the reason why they ended up not buying Havertz after being highly interested in him. There are enough media reports on this. Once Covid hit they realized the asking price was too high for them.

Edit: Here's a link from 2019. Bayern reportedly offered 75 million € for Havertz and Leverkusen answered "offer us 100 million and we can talk".

 

[Cheimoon]

If they're not happy to strengthen their rivals why do they keep letting their best players and now coaches join them?

They could sell overseas you know, most likely to a higher price. I think there's a kind of unwritten agreement between players, coaches and clubs that if Bayern comes calling they won't get in the way.

Leipzig's CEO recently said something similar about Nagelsmann, when they signed him they agreed it was Nagelsmann dream to manage Bayern so if the opportunity arises they wouldn't get in the way. Well that's just what happened.

I'm sorry, but that still makes zero sense. On a general level, almost everyone in Germany who isn't a Bayern fan actually dislikes the club, and all other clubs would like to dethrone them. Why, then, would they have this mindset that you're attributing to them?

On specifics: Upamecano is a French national; why would he be a Bayern fan or be intent on joining them specifically? What's more, while he could have left on a free last year, he decided to help Leipzig by extending his contract (so they could get a fee for him), with a release clause. This clause wouldn't have been secret. So again, the question isn't why Bayern got him for that clause, the question is rather why there wasn't a bidding war with other clubs involved. What trick did Leipzig miss out on here?

Nagelsmann: I don't know what's behind this, but it does happen that clauses regarding specific clubs are inserted into contracts. Koeman had one about Barcelona when he was managing the Dutch national team. Clubs also promise to be cooperative in general to be able to hold on to talents longer. Ajax often works that way to try and keep their top talents at the club another one or two seasons. Leipzig isn't a big club; maybe they need to accept that sort of thing to be able to attract top talent like Nagelsmann. (Which would be like Dortmund having had to accept a release clause in Haaland's contract to be able to keep him.) Again, what's the alternative for Leipzig here? Tell Nagelsman that he would under no condition be able to leave for Bayern if they can prevent it, and then miss out on him?

 

[SAFMUTD]

He extended last summer and his previous contract was expiring in 2021.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Didn't knew that, I guess the low contact clause was part of the deal. Still isn't supposedly the clause to be activated until summer? How did Bayern agreed it before it clicked? It only means Bayern had already agreed with the player and that is just a formality until summer starts and the clause is activated.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I'm sorry, but that still makes zero sense. On a general level, almost everyone in Germany who isn't a Bayern fan actually dislikes the club, and all other clubs would like to dethrone them. Why, then, would they have this mindset that you're attributing to them?

On specifics: Upamecano is a French national; why would he be a Bayern fan or be intent on joining them specifically? What's more, while he could have left on a free last year, he decided to help Leipzig by extending his contract (so they could get a fee for him), with a release clause. This clause wouldn't have been secret. So again, the question isn't why Bayern got him for that clause, the question is rather why there wasn't a bidding war with other clubs involved. What trick did Leipzig miss out on here?

Nagelsmann: I don't know what's behind this, but it does happen that clauses regarding specific clubs are inserted into contracts. Koeman had one about Barcelona when he was managing the Dutch national team. Clubs also promise to be cooperative in general to be able to hold on to talents longer. Ajax often works that way to try and keep their top talents at the club another one or two seasons. Leipzig isn't a big club; maybe they need to accept that sort of thing to be able to attract top talent like Nagelsmann. (Which would be like Dortmund having had to accept a release clause in Haaland's contract to be able to keep him.) Again, what's the alternative for Leipzig here? Tell Nagelsman that he would under no condition be able to leave for Bayern if they can prevent it, and then miss out on him?

I don't think it's a clause but more of a unwritten promise, again I'm only guessing. But it makes sense since Leipzig's CEO just mentioned it. Like you say maybe the lesser clubs which are all of the rest of the Bundesliga clubs agree with the players that if Bayern comes they will let them go in order to be more attractive to the player.

Also if all the other clubs hate them and would like to dethrone them as you say well they are doing the shitiest job I've ever seen. Because from my perspective all they do is feed their best players to Bayern for low fees. Not the smartest strategy if you want to dethrone them.

 

[Cheimoon]

Didn't knew that, I guess the low contact clause was part of the deal. Still isn't supposedly the clause to be activated until summer? How did Bayern agreed it before it clicked? It only means Bayern had already agreed with the player and that is just a formality until summer starts and the clause is activated.

Not sure how you mean that? It's not like he's joining Bayern right now. To my knowledge, these agreements are always technically pre-agreements, that do not actually kick in until the summer transfer market opens. Reference to the clause coming active in the summer probably mean that clubs couldn't use it for the winter transfer window.

This was public information btw, see e.g. here, where United are mentioned as a clubs interested in triggering the clause. So for me, the question remains: why didn't United, or Liverpool, or one of the other half a dozen clubs mentioned as potentially being interested?