Music Best Solo Artist in Pop Music History

Hugh Jass

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Do you remember where you read this?

EDIT: Because it's the complete opposite. If you said that to someone inclined to be rude to you, they'd insult/laugh at you.

https://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/the-incredible-way-michael-jackson-wrote-music-16799

Quickest one I could find. On youtube there are videos of legendary session musicians talking about this. How he would sing them their entire part for a particular song, then move onto the next instrument and so on.
I said was not sure of the terminology, so no need to be rude ok.

It was on quora where i read this, that he could not play the instruments, but would have the whole song in his head and would relay to the engineers or producers what he wanted.

Again, no need to be rude about it.
 

hungrywing

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I said was not sure of the terminology, so no need to be rude ok.

It was on quora where i read this, that he could not play the instruments, but would have the whole song in his head and would relay to the engineers or producers what he wanted.

Again, no need to be rude about it.
No one's being rude. Otherwise I would have laughed and said it was the most ignorant thing anyone's said or something of the sort instead of letting you know you'd be laughed at if you said that to the wrong person.
 

Hugh Jass

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No one's being rude. Otherwise I would have laughed and said it was the most ignorant thing anyone's said or something of the sort instead of letting you know you'd be laughed at if you said that to the wrong person.
FFS. I said originally i have no understanding of how music songs are created. I dont even know the difference betwen chords and melodies. What i had read was that Jackson would have the whole song already formed in his head and then would work with the producers to map that song into the real thing. It is pure genius what he was able to do. Just as Alfred Hitchcock had the whole film made his head and then all he had to do was film it.

I dont appreciate your condescending tone, when i specifically said i know nothing about how music gets made.
 

hungrywing

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FFS. I said originally i have no understanding of how music songs are created. I dont even know the difference betwen chords and melodies. What i had read was that Jackson would have the whole song already formed in his head and then would work with the producers to map that song into the real thing. It is pure genius what he was able to do. Just as Alfred Hitchcock had the whole film made his head and then all he had to do was film it.

I dont appreciate your condescending tone, when i specifically said i know nothing about how music gets made.
Sorry, I missed the part where you said the bolded parts in here:

From what i read Michael Jackson came up with the tunes to most of his good songs. He would tell the engineers or musicians the kind of sound he wanted. I am unsure of the terminology, but he did not write the notes for his songs, but he had the way he wanted the song to sound in his head.
or here:

Michael Jackson.
Which are your only two posts in the thread. If you're referring to another thread in which you said the bolded things, I'm sorry, I didn't see them.
 

HTG

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FFS. I said originally i have no understanding of how music songs are created. I dont even know the difference betwen chords and melodies. What i had read was that Jackson would have the whole song already formed in his head and then would work with the producers to map that song into the real thing. It is pure genius what he was able to do. Just as Alfred Hitchcock had the whole film made his head and then all he had to do was film it.

I dont appreciate your condescending tone, when i specifically said i know nothing about how music gets made.
There's a show on Netflix called Song Exploder. The show explains how certain famous songs were made. The artists are usually involved. You should check it out.
 

hubbuh

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Given best is subjective, I'd guess my favourites are:

James Brown (if he counts)
Prince
PJ Harvey
Leonard Cohen
Miles Davis
Joanna Newsom
Nick Cave (if he counts)
Kate Bush
Rosetta Tharpe
David Bowie
Lou Reed

Clearly none of these are even close to most successful or biggest selling (not Prince & Bowie) but they are the "best" to my mind, at least today.
Lots of great solo artists weren't really pop acts but had hits. Does that make them pop acts?

As talented as Prince was, I don't think he came close to matching someone like Sly Stone in terms of quality (and probably even influence). Then there's the other pop-adjacent geniuses like Bowie, Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Kate Bush. For me they're all better song writers than either Prince or Michael Jackson. If that even counts against units sold.
Miles Davis? Neil Young? Amazing artists but they don't belong in this conversation.

It's between Prince, David Bowie and Michael Jackson for me. David Bowie has the most songs that I like, but Prince's best is hard to match. Erotic City, 1999, Controversy, Pop Life, Lady Cab Driver. Prince or Bowie, for me.
 

Eendracht maakt macht

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I like the songs. Leave The Door Open has been on constant repeat on my Spotify for months :lol:
It’s purely subjective of course! Must say his latest songs are much better then the ones he broke through with in my opinion. That song ‘Grenade’. Horrific song.
 

Bobski

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Dylan, by a considerable margin if you remove the word pop, probably the most important musical figure of the last 100 years. Beyond everything else the quality and prolific nature of his songwriting is quite staggering, he has stuff on his bootlegs and outtakes that is levels above the vast majority of artist's best work.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Dylan, by a considerable margin if you remove the word pop, probably the most important musical figure of the last 100 years. Beyond everything else the quality and prolific nature of his songwriting is quite staggering, he has stuff on his bootlegs and outtakes that is levels above the vast majority of artist's best work.
But could he moonwalk?
 

Hugh Jass

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There's a show on Netflix called Song Exploder. The show explains how certain famous songs were made. The artists are usually involved. You should check it out.
Thanks will do.
 

Fingeredmouse

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Miles Davis? Neil Young? Amazing artists but they don't belong in this conversation.

It's between Prince, David Bowie and Michael Jackson for me. David Bowie has the most songs that I like, but Prince's best is hard to match. Erotic City, 1999, Controversy, Pop Life, Lady Cab Driver. Prince or Bowie, for me.
Miles Davis might be the most influential jazz musician of all time. Depending on your definition of "best" it seems valid. To be honest, there's people on that list I'd have thought would have been significantly more controversial than Miles.

Michael Jackson, whilst hugely successful and massively popular, makes music that, in the main, I dislike. Sometimes quite intensely.

So, in a best solo artist question, having Jackson over Davis would make no sense.

Now, if the question was biggest solo musician ever...
 

Classical Mechanic

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Not really sure what documentation you're looking for but It's a pretty well known fact in the music industry, it just doesn't get spoken about and she doesn't care about sales.
You can do the math yourself and see that it doesn't add up, for example - her self-titled album sold 1 million physical copies in the first 6 days worldwide, and has apparently only sold a further 4 million (in both streams & physical) in the 8 years since then. Likewise Lemonade has apparently sold 2.5 million worldwide, despite having songs on it which have gone 4x, 5x platinum by themselves.

The only way to keep track would be to find the periodical sales numbers that billboard (even then Billboard is only for the US, not worldwide) releases every now and then, and add it up methodically that way and you'll see that she's long since broken the 170m barrier. She's not the only one, Janet hasn't been re-certified in a number of years too and typically when artists pass away they don't get re-certified that often either.
You've basically claimed that Beyonce has sold 250-400m albums in the past 10-12 years in a time when she's released 3 albums. This would put her up there with the Beatles and Elvis in terms of albums sales overall and could be even more than MJ sold in his entire career with just those three albums! This is an eyebrow raising claim - to say the least. Naturally I assumed that there would be journalists etc documenting this incredible success and how it isn't reported in the official figures but I can't find a single article anywhere or any source even claiming such incredible sales.

Wikipedia lists official certified album sales and 'claimed' album sales. Many artists have much higher claimed sales than officially certified sales as you suggest. Beyonce is only about +20m for claimed sales though. She may well be humble but if there's a credible claim to those sales I'm pretty sure it would have made it on Wikipedia by now.

Regarding the relatively low sales of Lemonade. The album only streamed on the Tidal platform for a number of years which will have killed her numbers in the age of streaming. This makes me even more sceptical of the overall claim because she severely restricted the market for the album for the entire time it was hot. I don't think its that surprising that an artist sells so many copies in the first week either, as keen fans are desperate to get the new release. The songs on that album didn't do well in the singles chart, relative to her previous work. The numbers are not that impressive on Wikipedia and it's worth noting that a platinum single would only qualify as 150000 album sales if gained through streaming.
 

Reiver

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Dylan, by a considerable margin if you remove the word pop, probably the most important musical figure of the last 100 years. Beyond everything else the quality and prolific nature of his songwriting is quite staggering, he has stuff on his bootlegs and outtakes that is levels above the vast majority of artist's best work.
Completely agree, his bootleg series alone is well into double figures. As you point out, he's not a "pop" artist.

The title clearly says "pop music". Some of the suggestions would stretch that definition and then some.
 

Ali Dia

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Given best is subjective, I'd guess my favourites are:

James Brown (if he counts)
Prince
PJ Harvey
Leonard Cohen
Miles Davis
Joanna Newsom
Nick Cave (if he counts)
Kate Bush
Rosetta Tharpe
David Bowie
Lou Reed

Clearly none of these are even close to most successful or biggest selling (not Prince & Bowie) but they are the "best" to my mind, at least today.
We have very similar taste in tunes. I’ve never heard of Rosetta Thorpe so I’ll give it a spin the next time I’m out and about.:yawn:
 

hubbuh

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Miles Davis might be the most influential jazz musician of all time. Depending on your definition of "best" it seems valid. To be honest, there's people on that list I'd have thought would have been significantly more controversial than Miles.

Michael Jackson, whilst hugely successful and massively popular, makes music that, in the main, I dislike. Sometimes quite intensely.

So, in a best solo artist question, having Jackson over Davis would make no sense.

Now, if the question was biggest solo musician ever...
He's a jazz musician, though. This is about pop music. It's why people in this thread are mentioning the likes of Michael Jackson, Rihanna, Beyonce and Bruno Mars.
 

Eckers99

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Miles Davis? Neil Young? Amazing artists but they don't belong in this conversation.

It's between Prince, David Bowie and Michael Jackson for me. David Bowie has the most songs that I like, but Prince's best is hard to match. Erotic City, 1999, Controversy, Pop Life, Lady Cab Driver. Prince or Bowie, for me.
That's why I spent the first part of my post wondering about the definition, and the rest using awkward terms like pop-adjacent - there's lots of grey area with terms like 'pop music'. Young's Harvest album was a big seller and made him a mainstream success - so as close as he's ever been to a pop star. Obviously he seemed to spend the rest of the decade moving as far away from the charts as possible though!

Likewise, there are massive chunks of Bowie's best work that aren't close to pop. There's a lot of rock and experimentation and although the guy had a great ear for melody, I don't think he was an actual bona fide pop star until the 80s, by which point his very best music was largely behind him.

Despite my obvious confusion about what constitutes pop music, one thing we can definitely agree on is that it isn't Miles Davis (brilliant as he was) ;)
 

villain

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You've basically claimed that Beyonce has sold 250-400m albums in the past 10-12 years in a time when she's released 3 albums. This would put her up there with the Beatles and Elvis in terms of albums sales overall and could be even more than MJ sold in his entire career with just those three albums! This is an eyebrow raising claim - to say the least. Naturally I assumed that there would be journalists etc documenting this incredible success and how it isn't reported in the official figures but I can't find a single article anywhere or any source even claiming such incredible sales.

Wikipedia lists official certified album sales and 'claimed' album sales. Many artists have much higher claimed sales than officially certified sales as you suggest. Beyonce is only about +20m for claimed sales though. She may well be humble but if there's a credible claim to those sales I'm pretty sure it would have made it on Wikipedia by now.

Regarding the relatively low sales of Lemonade. The album only streamed on the Tidal platform for a number of years which will have killed her numbers in the age of streaming. This makes me even more sceptical of the overall claim because she severely restricted the market for the album for the entire time it was hot. I don't think its that surprising that an artist sells so many copies in the first week either, as keen fans are desperate to get the new release. The songs on that album didn't do well in the singles chart, relative to her previous work. The numbers are not that impressive on Wikipedia and it's worth noting that a platinum single would only qualify as 150000 album sales if gained through streaming.
Like I said it's not a claim - this isn't too uncommon within the music industry because RIAA certifications are only as valuable as the money it costs to get them updated - especially for some of the bigger artists who came up pre-streaming era, there's just too many certifications to update & it's very expensive once piled up.
In comparison with artists who came up in the last 10 years or so who get their certifications updated yearly because platforms like Spotify & Twitter encourage the competition that it fuels and it's cheaper to do it that way. It's just marketing at the end of the day, and a lot of the biggest artists don't need the apparent 'value' or bragging rights it brings.
Journalists aren't talking about it because it's not new, and Beyonce isn't the only one this applies to. She is an extreme example, but that's mainly because she's gone out of her way to close off information about her (side note: she also hasn't informed Forbes of her Net Worth in almost the same amount of time) and every Beyonce fan knows this about her, so it's not newsworthy. The only people not aware of this are those who aren't her fans, and I doubt they care either.

I guess you can go here: https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&se=beyonce#search_section
and sort by date - you'll see most of them were last certified around the same time of release, or a few years after release - and the majority haven't been updated in over 10 years.
Like I said in my initial point, Crazy In Love (released in 2003) sold 500k units in 2019 alone. But has only certified 500k sales total in the US all time, on the RIAA website the last certification was in 2006 - we're talking about one of the biggest records in the last 20 years, to think it's only sold & streamed 500k worth of units in the US is madness.
Likewise with songs like Halo, Single Ladies & Irreplaceable which not only dominated the charts but are intwined in pop culture too - Halo for example has 900 million streams on Spotify alone, according to RIAA though - in the US it's only sold 2 million units ever - both physical & streamed. Single Ladies came in 2008 sold 4 million units in less than 2 years, and hasn't been certified since 2010 - I mean come on, that's ridiculous!
You don't have to believe me of course, but some maths would definitely let you know that things aren't adding up.

Funnily enough you bringing up Lemonade made me remember that despite it only being available on Tidal for about 3 years and only coming on Spotify in the last 2/3 years it has 2 songs which have racked up over 250 million streams on Spotify alone - those same songs, according to RIAA have only sold 1 million each. The album itself sold about 600k it's first week and remained on the charts for a considerable amount of time, because the Tidal exclusivity meant that more people were pushed to buy the album - on RIAA though it went 2x Platinum in May 2019 then 3x Platinum in June 2019 - I also believe this coincides around the time it became available on Spotify - which tells me that as soon as it became available on the platform the popularity surged immensely, and it hasn't been updated since.

I've hand picked a few songs but hopefully you can see just how complex this whole situation is, especially once you start adding in stuff like streaming because I believe things like youtube views, credits in media like movies/tv shows etc all count towards streams in recent years (I could be wrong) and since 90% of her RIAA hasn't been updated since 2010, we've barely scratched the surface of the amount of sales from streams.
 

Fingeredmouse

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He's a jazz musician, though. This is about pop music. It's why people in this thread are mentioning the likes of Michael Jackson, Rihanna, Beyonce and Bruno Mars.
Fair point. I was using pop in the broad sense of "popular" but not classical. That probably rules out at least half of my list.
 

hubbuh

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That's why I spent the first part of my post wondering about the definition, and the rest using awkward terms like pop-adjacent - there's lots of grey area with terms like 'pop music'. Young's Harvest album was a big seller and made him a mainstream success - so as close as he's ever been to a pop star. Obviously he seemed to spend the rest of the decade moving as far away from the charts as possible though!

Likewise, there are massive chunks of Bowie's best work that aren't close to pop. There's a lot of rock and experimentation and although the guy had a great ear for melody, I don't think he was an actual bona fide pop star until the 80s, by which point his very best music was largely behind him.

Despite my obvious confusion about what constitutes pop music, one thing we can definitely agree on is that it isn't Miles Davis (brilliant as he was) ;)
True enough, he definitely reached peak stardom by the 80s, but he was putting out 'avant' pop/rock throughout the 70s. He's quite a difficult artist to pin down given his prolificacy and musical shape-shifting tendencies. I'd say it's fair to peg him in the pop star category, though.

On the Beach is one of my favourite records ever, and came out immediately after Harvest (which I don't much care for). Do you have a favourite Young album?
 

OleBoiii

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It’s purely subjective of course! Must say his latest songs are much better then the ones he broke through with in my opinion. That song ‘Grenade’. Horrific song.
Once he found his niche(Treasure, Uptown Funk, 24K Magic, Finesse, Leave The Door Open) he became a completely different and way better artist.

Anyways, I only mentioned Bruno Mars because people were looking for representatives from the last 15 years. In that category he's the best for me, even though I rarely listen to his music. But he's nowhere near the likes of MJ, Prince and Bowie, obviously.
 

Dirty Schwein

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Once he found his niche(Treasure, Uptown Funk, 24K Magic, Finesse, Leave The Door Open) he became a completely different and way better artist.

Anyways, I only mentioned Bruno Mars because people were looking for representatives from the last 15 years. In that category he's the best for me, even though I rarely listen to his music. But he's nowhere near the likes of MJ, Prince and Bowie, obviously.
Listen to his song Moonshine. Wasn't a single but my word is it a banger!
 

Dirty Schwein

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I'm sorry to say but I just can't get into Bowie. The music feels so dated. My friend, who is a huge fan made me a playlist of 15 songs, I think I didn't like a single one.

The worst is that his fans get offended when you tell them this.

One guy at work stopped speaking to me when I told him I don't like Bowie :lol:
 

HTG

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I'm sorry to say but I just can't get into Bowie. The music feels so dated. My friend, who is a huge fan made me a playlist of 15 songs, I think I didn't like a single one.

The worst is that his fans get offended when you tell them this.

One guy at work stopped speaking to me when I told him I don't like Bowie :lol:
You should give your account to that colleague of yours. He sounds much smarter and more interesting than you.
 

Mockney

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Now I feel like I’m going mad. How can nobody else agree with this?! Could MJ even play an instrument?
Prince didn’t have nearly as many hits, or the genre spanning longevity of someone like Bowie, surely?... I remember when he died going back over his ouvre and thinking “... eh?”...

He was undoubtedly an incredible musician, a hypnotically charismatic dude and wrote some bangers, but i’d question whether his song writing was particularly enduring?... He’s one of those that everyone like to say “ooo, but he wrote loads of songs for other people too” but when you actually look at it, it’s Nothing Compares 2 U, and a bunch of forgettable crap. The BeeGees are who actually wrote a lot of impressive stuff for other people.

Bowie wrote stuff in wildly different genres that was relevant for over 50 years...and then a masterpiece at 69. Prince feels very “of a certain time” (mid 80s) to me... something that Bowie, Jackson, Madonna (if we’re including non-auteurs like Elvis anyway*) and even John don’t so much.

Best guitarist of the bunch for sure. Pound for pound the most talented instrumentalist ... but still... not the overall best... unless you’re... you know, whatever increasingly reactionary age you are now.

* personally I’d discount both. Gary Barlow/Tony Mortimer > Elvis... Come at me!
 
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Eckers99

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True enough, he definitely reached peak stardom by the 80s, but he was putting out 'avant' pop/rock throughout the 70s. He's quite a difficult artist to pin down given his prolificacy and musical shape-shifting tendencies. I'd say it's fair to peg him in the pop star category, though.

On the Beach is one of my favourite records ever, and came out immediately after Harvest (which I don't much care for). Do you have a favourite Young album?
Same, I like a few tunes on Harvest but the run of records he made afterwards - right up to Rust Never Sleeps - is among the best album runs in modern music. For me, only Bowie had a comparable period of consistent greatness.

So hard to pick a favourite but I listen to On the Beach most, along with After the Goldrush, Tonight's the Night and Rust Never Sleeps. His back catalogue is insanely good isn't it?