Same nonsense we heard all last summer and none of them had a clue.
Is Jadon Sancho really worth the 100 plus million fee?
- Thread starter Nickelodeon
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You mean the player with the most goals from open play in our squad? The guy who works so well with Luke Shaw down the left and is the source of most of our attacking threat? Really? That is the area you desperately want to improve and create competition for, our most productive one?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/top-scorers
I just want a sign we've learnt a thing or two and actually do the unthinkable and wrap this deal up early. No one wants a saga, it's not entertaining. This signing has been long over due for a couple of windows now at least. Do it, move on to the next one. Please.
Well it was reported by just about everyone that we already agreed terms with his camp, it was agreement on the fee with the club that proved difficult.
The big difference now is that Dortmund are actually open to selling compared to when they were blustering weekly about holding onto him last year. They're doing that regarding Haaland this time while they've publicly opened the door for a Sancho sale at the same time
Have you watched him regularly? He's played a hell of a lot off the right for Dortmund and his output is still brilliant. The only way our attack/squad will improve is signing quality players that are better than what we have, or nurturing young players who have the potential to be better than what we have.
Rashford is very inconsistent and needs competition for the LW but that's where Sancho is a standout for me, he's versatile and can play anywhere behind the striker.
Martial isn't worth talking about, he should be sold in summer, he's not consistent enough and is quite injury prone.
Pogba is not a LW, never has been and never will be, when it comes to the crunch like last night, he'll be exploited because of his incapability defensively. For me it is Bruno or Pogba for that no.10 position and due to work rates, it's a no brainer for me, Pogba shouldn't be played as a DM, nor a LW.
If we're adamant keeping Martial and Pogba for next season, our options should be:
ST: Cavani and Greenwood
LW: Rashford and Martial
RW: Sancho and Amad
No.10: Bruno and Pogba
Yes.You mean the player with the most goals from open play in our squad? The guy who works so well with Luke Shaw down the left and is the source of most of our attacking threat? Really? That is the area you desperately want to improve and create competition for, our most productive one?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/top-scorers
That and the CB and the CM position. Rashford's stats can't overshadow that he looks absolutely spent the last couple of months. Imagine his numbers when he's actually fit and in form
Okay, I'll leave it as there's no point arguing further then.
Have you seen him play on the right?
No I'll admit I have watched him most irregularly. Have you watched him regularly?
It might be a coincidence but his best displays that I have happened to watch seem to be coming from the left (v Schalke, Sevilla and now Leipzig) and his bad games have been down the right (v Bayern). And his highlights are generally him coming either from left or middle.
Again, he's a right footed player so his most natural position on the front three will be down the left. How many top teams play with a right-footed player on the right of a front 3 today?
Finally I always maintain a level of skepticism about how performances in the BL will transfer to EPL. He might be doing great for BVB on the right but will he do it here? How many forwards from the BL have come and maintained the same level here? Mkhitaryan, Pulisic, Havertz, Werner, Schurrle, Haller. I'm not saying that's he's not a very talented player and that he won't be a success. But matching Greenwood or Rashford in performances won't be an easy task as granted as some take it.
I have, but infrequently.
EDIT: Most memorable the game against Bayern where they lost 2-3 at home and he got subbed.
This season he has played predominately on the left but last season he played mainly on the right with plenty of games on the left. Dortmund have been fairly fluid, so even if he starts on one side, he hasn't necessarily played the whole match there. This seasons video will show him more on the left but last seasons video is more balanced in terms of where his goals/assists are coming from.
The same will apply to his first full season
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I have, I've been an advocate of signing him since he joined Dortmund, he's exactly the profile of player we need in my opinion.
I understand your scepticism regarding him coming from the Bundesliga but he trained and developed in England prior to that move to Dortmund, so he's accustomed to English football having grown up in that environment, something the others have had to learn thus far. I think he'll flourish at United, his understanding with Hakimi last season down the right flank for Dortmund was great and helped gave Sancho freedom and space to express himself, something I feel AWB could help provide. He's also outstanding at close quarters in his touch, dribbling and ability to beat the defender 1v1.
We also have to take into consideration that Rashford needs surgery post Euros, so he's going to miss a part of the new season to recover and rehabilitate.
I have seen a lot of his games. He might be marginally better on the left but he is still pretty awesome on the right.
He won't replicate the numbers. But he will replicate the quality. His numbers are awesome but I don't care about them. I want him because of his quality and because of his style of play. Being so nimble with an eye for a pass, he would be so helpful against packed defenses.
Y
Yes agree!
I think the left/right discussion, though obviously apt, is a bit of a blind alley. He can play both, a fluid frontline is the way forward. Applying that to last night's game alone, you can see it would've helped us a huge amount. We need this lad.
Yeah but I expect this trend of him playing more on the left to continue not abate. As he matures as a winger he'll naturally find his performances are more suited to left side. Especially as his best skills from what I've been able to gather are: running with the ball, short pass link-up, dribbling and shooting. Not crossing.
I can't reiterate this enough, he is a right footed player and there's a reason practically no top team plays with a right-footed on the right of the front 3 if they can avoid it.
Liverpool - Salah
City - Mahrez
Chelsea - Ziyech
Arsenal - Pepe/Saka
Barca - Messi
Real - Asensio
Juve - Dybala/Bernardeschi
Bayern - Sane
I also think the club is banking a lot on both Greenwood and Amad to make the right wing theirs for the foreseeable, both being predominantly left footed. I maintain the opinion that Sancho will struggle to match the output of Greenwood on the right as the latter has a very strong (and mostly dominant) left foot and a great eye for a goal. It won't be easy for him. If Sancho were to come play on the right, what's the point of the Amad purchase? And if he's to come for the left wing, he'll have to displace literally our most consistent forward of the last few years in Rashford.
I would still love him here, but he seems a bit of a luxury given the more pressing problems at CB and DM while also needing keep an eye for long term replacement for Cavani at #9.
Yeah well that was a bit of an exaggeration, I'll admit
You'd refuse Mbappe joining the club because he'd play on the right?
Give me Sancho anyday a week over these left footer options. Quality over irrelevant stuff like foot. He's brilliant and brilliant on the right.
If anything him being different from Greenwood is a good thing.
Yup.
Plus people forget that unlike our attackers he's an actual winger. Comfortable on the flank. They see all wide forwards as the same.
Excellent point.... if it weren't for the fact that Mbappe (like very right footed forward) has also found his niche playing either on the left or as CF these days. That's where you'd play him if you want to get the most out of him.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kylian-mbappe/leistungsdaten/spieler/342229
^ his stats this season.
You'd buy Mbappe and play him out of position, is that what you're telling me?
Dortmund's right winger was Hakimi last season. And if you actually take a close look at how he scores and assists his goals in the 19/20 season, then he actually ends up central in a lot of those goals/assists that he produces, with the exception of setpieces. But as far producing in a wing forward role in the season in question, he demonstrates that far better on the left, which is understandable considering he's right footed. Hakimi was a great outlet for Dortmund in attack which opened up space for Sancho in the half space. He will do a job as a right sided forward but he's naturally best suited to playing on the left and that's even the opinion of people that have coached him at youth level.
But I hope we sign him because he's a fantastic young talent that will provide tactical flexibility which will be on the left hand side in the half space in the long term.
No I'm saying id buy the best winger on the market who is Jadon Sancho. Brilliant on both sides.Excellent point.... if it weren't for the fact that Mbappe (like very right footed forward) has also found his niche playing either on the left or as CF these days. That's where you'd play him if you want to get the most out of him.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kylian-mbappe/leistungsdaten/spieler/342229
^ his stats this season.
You'd buy Mbappe and play him out of position, is that what you're telling me?
I feel the club will too
And that's only natural and why I keep talking about it. It's not about the £80m or £100m specifically. People really want to buy a special player to play him where he would naturally be less effective. Like buying Messi to playing him on the left or Neymar to play him on the right. It's bonkers.
If you spend £100m on Sancho you play him where he'll do the most damage. The left. You don't buy someone for £100m to shoehorn him wherever you have space.
You clearly haven't watched him then. He's a right footed player all day long.
He isn't as brilliant on both sides. Partly why we're harping on about it. He's more effective coming from the left.
I agree with you mate and even one of our coaches at National youth level has said the same. You don't sign a player who is clearly best suited to play on the left for a huge fee and shunt him on the right. I want us to sign him for our left side.
Don’t understand the left/right discussion. He is only 21y and already one of the best wings in the world. He is obviously capable of having great impact from both sides, like the best players usually are. His great play on the left side doesn’t make him a worse player on the right side.
No doubt Sancho suits us perfectly. Can’t understand who’s an better RW alternative. Sancho is a typical United RW - who suits Ole’s system. Can’t say the same about example Grealish, who’s style isn’t that “wide”.
No doubt Sancho suits us perfectly. Can’t understand who’s an better RW alternative. Sancho is a typical United RW - who suits Ole’s system. Can’t say the same about example Grealish, who’s style isn’t that “wide”.
He is brilliant on both sides though. For a 21 year his performance levels and end product is stunning from either side. Where you think he's better is not important. He's better than the options on the right. Name me someone better we can sign. And please don't say Raphinha or some half hearted player like that.
Absolutely. I don't think I've ever been so convinced of a player being the perfect fit for us.
Yeah absolutely convinced he is but just wish we didn't have bigger issues at CB/CDM
Tbh I'm not convinced next season is this huge season where were going to go for the title finally. I think our progress is a bit overstated. Hence I know we will longer before challenging and fixing all our issues that is , if we even do, under Ole. Hence feck it, give me my Jadon Sancho and watch our attack fly
There are two players out there. Clearly who can make United better and strength United attack. To get closer to the premier league title. It is Sancho and Leeds Raphinha.
In the ideal world. I will try to get both. Line up:
Raphinha - Bruno - McTom - Sancho + Greenwood- Rashford
Close to the perfect and ideal 6 combination of a 442
Raphinha is the real deal. He is an football artist. Had a good playing understanding with Bruno back in Sporting.
Ideally I will try to get both. But this year. From France to Leeds. Premier league has got a really big attraction. It a pleasure watching Raphinha playing football. I don’t mind a reunion with Bruno.
Example like I would say. If I don’t get Sancho I will be saitisfy with Raphinha as new RW option. Then you can press the price of Sancho down. Last summer Dortmund knew United was desperate and really wanted Sancho. Why the price was so high. But if in another shop. I can get the same quality for lower price. I will be satisfy too.
But again. A dream to get both Sancho and Raphinha to United.
In the ideal world. I will try to get both. Line up:
Raphinha - Bruno - McTom - Sancho + Greenwood- Rashford
Close to the perfect and ideal 6 combination of a 442
Raphinha is the real deal. He is an football artist. Had a good playing understanding with Bruno back in Sporting.
Ideally I will try to get both. But this year. From France to Leeds. Premier league has got a really big attraction. It a pleasure watching Raphinha playing football. I don’t mind a reunion with Bruno.
Example like I would say. If I don’t get Sancho I will be saitisfy with Raphinha as new RW option. Then you can press the price of Sancho down. Last summer Dortmund knew United was desperate and really wanted Sancho. Why the price was so high. But if in another shop. I can get the same quality for lower price. I will be satisfy too.
But again. A dream to get both Sancho and Raphinha to United.
Sounds like you would accept Jadon and signing some more cheaper prospects at CB & CDM but could be wrongTbh I'm not convinced next season is this huge season where were going to go for the title finally. I think our progress is a bit overstated. Hence I know we will longer before challenging and fixing all our issues that is , if we even do, under Ole. Hence feck it, give me my Jadon Sancho and watch our attack fly
To you. To everyone who matters, it is. Hence every top manager of a top team that plays 4-3-3, uses left footers on the right side of their front 3. Including his own managers at BVB who have gradually shifted him to the left seeing that he's more impactful there. I'll take their opinion over yours.
I wouldn't necessarily buy, unless we could fill the holes at CB and DM first. Greenwood is doing very well, RW is no longer a top priority for me.
And if I were to spend £100m on a player that is better on the left, I'd play him on the left. I'd sooner try Rashford up top and Sancho left with Greenwood right.
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I feel like there's two distinct questions wrapped into one, in this thread.
The first one is - is Sancho worth a top end transfer sum ("100m+")?
And there, the answer is uneqivocally, absolutely, yes.
In the context of player prices over the last years (Mbappé, Griezmann, Joao Felix, Hazard on his last contract year, Coutinho, Pogba, all commanding three digit million sums, players like Havertz, Pepe, De Jong, De Ligt between 80-100m €), and considering the kind of talent he is and the kind of record he has at a young age, he is objectively 'worth' that kind of transfer fee.
(putting aside the simple fact that a player's price is what the club he's under contract at is willing to sell him for)
Covid put a dent into clubs' earnings and made their planning more insecure (which is probably the main reason why the transfer didn't happen last summer), but going forward the money will still be there. And whoever buys him will get a 21 year old top player with a long, quite likely elite career ahead of him, and a record to show for that can compare with the absolute very best at that age. Of course his price will be that high, he is that good.
The second question is whether a club should afford him if that means compromising other positions, that may or may not be in more urgent need of reinforcements?
That's of course a debate worth having, and for Man United I for one wouldn't be able to give an answer. From the outside, I tend to think though that Man United can afford a lot if they want to. 'Other clubs can only dream of' that etc, so I'm not sure why there would need to be either/or scenarios.
Now, what's not an acceptable operation, is to conflate the two arguments in order to create some kind of reality where the answer of the one conveniently changes the answer of the other. You can't say "we don't really need Sancho that badly so I think he's worth 50m at best".. He will be worth his value to someone else.
The first one is - is Sancho worth a top end transfer sum ("100m+")?
And there, the answer is uneqivocally, absolutely, yes.
In the context of player prices over the last years (Mbappé, Griezmann, Joao Felix, Hazard on his last contract year, Coutinho, Pogba, all commanding three digit million sums, players like Havertz, Pepe, De Jong, De Ligt between 80-100m €), and considering the kind of talent he is and the kind of record he has at a young age, he is objectively 'worth' that kind of transfer fee.
(putting aside the simple fact that a player's price is what the club he's under contract at is willing to sell him for)
Covid put a dent into clubs' earnings and made their planning more insecure (which is probably the main reason why the transfer didn't happen last summer), but going forward the money will still be there. And whoever buys him will get a 21 year old top player with a long, quite likely elite career ahead of him, and a record to show for that can compare with the absolute very best at that age. Of course his price will be that high, he is that good.
The second question is whether a club should afford him if that means compromising other positions, that may or may not be in more urgent need of reinforcements?
That's of course a debate worth having, and for Man United I for one wouldn't be able to give an answer. From the outside, I tend to think though that Man United can afford a lot if they want to. 'Other clubs can only dream of' that etc, so I'm not sure why there would need to be either/or scenarios.
Now, what's not an acceptable operation, is to conflate the two arguments in order to create some kind of reality where the answer of the one conveniently changes the answer of the other. You can't say "we don't really need Sancho that badly so I think he's worth 50m at best".. He will be worth his value to someone else.
Yes definitely. Look, I don't see us linked to mega talents in defence or midfield. There's no obvious VVD available Tommy knowledge or the next Kroos in midfield. Hence proper proper top class Sancho over another signing. I have full faith in his abilities
Wow, another season without a true winger at the club. Fair enough arre to disagree. Can't get behind that.
True winger? Spare me. Mbappe is not a winger, he's a forward, but you were creaming over the option to have him play on the right or left.
"True wingers" were LMs and RMs of the likes of Giggs, Figo, Beckham etc. We don't need wingers explicitly, we don't play 4-4-2, this is 2021. The 4-3-3 formation utilizes inverted forwards to great success. What matters is if the players put out there are doing the job needed of them and if they are balancing out the team.
So yes I would sooner play with no "true winger" if that delivers the versatility needed up front instead of 3 right footed players all cramming in on the left.
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