If Pogba is staying then I think he'd be a good one to try with him, but if Pogba is leaving, then I'm not sure what a midfield two of Rice and Fred would look like. Doesn't seem to have the mobility for a box-to-box role, and I think Fred is better in deeper areas. I'd be looking at another player with similar qualities to Fred who can get forward well, but is also comfortable when deep.
Declan Rice
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In my head both McT and DvdB would suite ok with Rice. When we play teams that are very strong in midfield I would play like we do with McFred but Rice/Fred instead.
This
One of the pivot needs to offer something on the ball, that's not Rice's role in the duo and it's definitely not either of McFred's.
His passing is really average.
It has been pointed out in other threads that we score more than we should for the chances we make. For quality chances we are not in the top 4.
We need a midfielder who can run the game.
You are right.
Pogba- Bruno
-----Rice------
DvdB- Bruno
------Rice-----
Bruno---McT
-----Rice----
------Bruno---
Fred----Rice
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All of those combinations have problems and simply miss too much. We are not solving the problem.
Pogba is the elephant in the room we’re all ignoring. Replace him with a tielemans and everything looks better balanced.
That's possible. I feel like there is no vision for our midfield. It's just patched together.
Ok.
Why?
I see that you don't think Rice can run the game, and I kind of agree but I think he does it better than McT or Fred. I also think it would be on Pogba and Bruno to run the game.
Pogba and Bruno are not at all the types to run games. Also 1 midfielder to do all the defensive work will just make problems.
Agree. He's been the best player on the pitch in all 3 games against us this season.
This is the only line-up from those that both fits the bill and has a realistic chance of happening, and Pogba doesn't work in the double pivot.
I disagree , he works in some games if we face a defensive minded team , because we get another creative and offensive player.
The others was examples if Pogba go in the summer. If he does I don't think we find a substitution, or even try to find.
It still leaves us defensively open if the team presses in the midfield, and over half the PL are no mugs now, even against Aston Villa Ole kept Pogba left. There's no point in only being able to have a creative #8 in a dozen or so games and then have to use the cloggers in all of the others, that not a fix it's a bandage.
All of the ones without Pogba suck though, we wont get any further in the chase for a title if that's how our double pivot looks, Bruno will get swamped by most teams with any of those combinations behind him.
120 pages, no new updates, hardly any solid links.
You lot are mad.
You lot are mad.
He’s not even that good
Regardless or how good or bad, there’s no “buzz” whatsoever in the media about this, the price makes it a certain no no, yet here we are, 120 pages in, with all sorts of discussions about how he’s fit in, who we’d need to sell, how we’d play.
Nutters I tell ya.
I honestly think a CDM (Rice) would make e huge differens in how we end up higher in the pitch with the hole team. Higher press and more creative players playing when opponents park the buss.
How would you set up the team if Pogba leave?
To be honest regardless of whether Pogba stays or goes I feel we need 2 midfielders, I don't think Pogba suits the deeper role so it's whether Ole sees him on the left long term, but I don't think either of McFred should be starters next season, we need a more dynamic and creative #8 to pair with Rice if we sign him, someone to compliment his holding strengths.
Tis the season to be a muppet.
Ok. Good points
I got split feeling about Pogba on the left but I think he did some great games out there before the Liverpool game.
I guess I have moore believes in Fred and McT than you :0)
And the ballance need to be right, and playing with one CDM instead of the pivot two will probably effect someone else's offensive work, I'm guessing the two fullbacks.
Pogba on the left is a work in progress I agree, it might be that Ole is just playing him there to keep him in the mix before the summer if he is going, as the better he's playing the better deal we can get.
That's fair to say mate.
Agreed, that's why I don't see Pogba in the double pivot, I think we need to maintain the high energy we get from McFred but with a #8 who can bring quality on the ball along with the workrate.
Absolutely, but at least let there be a media ”buzz” first.
Watching the Brighton-West Ham game right now, and putting extra attention on him and Yves Bissouma. Have to say his defending on the ground is one of the best I've ever seen since I started watching football, and I'm not exaggerating. The positioning, the anticipation and his moves for interceptions - It is almost perfect, and he rarely mistimes his challenges.
At times when West Ham get men behind the ball, and it looks like they are struggling to put in a challenge, he just steps up from nowhere and wins the ball cleanly like a boss. The height advantage is a plus too.
I think he'd be very good in a solo holding role, but I can't shake off the feeling that he might be exposed and look distinctly average in a midfield two especially in our set-up. His ball handling is good in isolation, better than our Fred for example, but he is nowhere near as adventurous as we'd want him to be in our midfield if he joins. I haven't looked at statistics, but I'm confident Fred smashes him in that regard, and I want someone better, or at least as good as Fred in terms of ball progression.
Though I haven't been paying much attention to him compared to Rice who I've followed for a while, Bissouma seems to be slightly worse in terms of ball handling. Probably slightly worse defender too, with his challenges, but Rice is top tier in that one.
Personally feel he'd be a better fit though next to a Fred for example. He looks far more willing to take more responsibility on the ball, and isn't as big as Rice so is harder to pick in the middle. I have seen quite a few raving about him and initial impression is good for me. He isn't as imposing as Rice, but really hope we take a good look at him.
At times when West Ham get men behind the ball, and it looks like they are struggling to put in a challenge, he just steps up from nowhere and wins the ball cleanly like a boss. The height advantage is a plus too.
I think he'd be very good in a solo holding role, but I can't shake off the feeling that he might be exposed and look distinctly average in a midfield two especially in our set-up. His ball handling is good in isolation, better than our Fred for example, but he is nowhere near as adventurous as we'd want him to be in our midfield if he joins. I haven't looked at statistics, but I'm confident Fred smashes him in that regard, and I want someone better, or at least as good as Fred in terms of ball progression.
Though I haven't been paying much attention to him compared to Rice who I've followed for a while, Bissouma seems to be slightly worse in terms of ball handling. Probably slightly worse defender too, with his challenges, but Rice is top tier in that one.
Personally feel he'd be a better fit though next to a Fred for example. He looks far more willing to take more responsibility on the ball, and isn't as big as Rice so is harder to pick in the middle. I have seen quite a few raving about him and initial impression is good for me. He isn't as imposing as Rice, but really hope we take a good look at him.
Rice is a thoroughbred. You just know he is going to get better and better.
I keep seeing activity and foolishly assuming that something must be happening this time. Alas no. Nothing. We've barely moved on from, 'Is he really any better than Eric Dier?'
You probably got the same thoughts Ole have. I don't think Ole wants to play with a CDM either.Pogba on the left is a work in progress I agree, it might be that Ole is just playing him there to keep him in the mix before the summer if he is going, as the better he's playing the better deal we can get.
That's fair to say mate.
Agreed, that's why I don't see Pogba in the double pivot, I think we need to maintain the high energy we get from McFred but with a #8 who can bring quality on the ball along with the workrate.
In some games I agree with your thoughts, but at least half of the league games I feel that we can play a moore risky or "possitive" lineup.
The players you mentioned keep the ball though. They're consistent with it. They can play in tight areas.
Both Pogba and Bruno are loose, they give it away cheaply.
You can see the difference right?
The DM would have to be superman to cover for Bruno and Pogba.
Lets just buy both then. Rice as 6 and Yves doing the Biz at no 8.
I think that’s a lot to do with our tactics. We are by design a really direct team. Not direct like Big Sam but direct in that we try killer balls a lot.
I’ve no doubt that Pogba and Bruno could play a possession game if the coach wanted that.
I've always said he's a Morgan Schneiderlin. Looks great in a well drilled defensive setup doing what they ask him to do.
Ask him to play on the front foot 9/10 times like we have to and it's a completely different way of playing.
IF Ole wanted to play a 4-3-3 and basically use him to just be defending and recycling play then i'm sure he could do it, but he's not great in an attacking sense, he plays a very safe game.
For England he's exactly the same, he looks good in breaking up play but you need more than that.
Yeah, I rate him as a defensive midfielder, and he looks secure on the ball, but we play a two-man midfield, and it requires both midfielders to be able to push forward as well as defend well.
Immobile is probably not the best word to use to describe him as he carries the ball well when there is space, and is quick across the ground, but I don't see him as the man we want to be going forward from midfield, playing one twos with Bruno, wriggling through tight spaces in the middle and occasionally getting in the box. It is just not his game, and unless we change the midfield set-up entirely, that is what would be required.
He is not very vertical with his game, he is not very nimble, he is not one you'd trust to escape his markers in the middle. I think he'd be painfully exposed here as Ole seems very rigid. Though Fred's ball handling isn't the best, I personally think he is of the profile we should be looking for. Kante for example, is of the same profile too.
How did he play on his return to the team as didn't see the game
He did well considering it was his first game back. Nothing special but solid.
I think you would see links to more of that type player IF there was a strong sense that Pogba was going to leave whereas at the moment it all seems to point to him staying but could well run his contract down next season
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