Greenwood got subbed because he stopped running, presumably because he was gassed. Rashford didn't have his best game but he was at least still running and trying all through the 120 minutes.
What did Ole get wrong today ?
- Thread starter VidaRed
- Start date
I just don’t get the obsession with playing two defensive midfielders in games where we are the dominant team. Why couldn’t McT or Fred just sit and play Pogba and Fernandes further forward. It’s been a problem for years (pre Ole) that we can’t break down low block teams. You need more creative players in higher positions and move the ball quickly in and around the box. We are so static at times and so easy to defend against.
I would’ve started with Pogba on the left, Fred DM and both VDB and Bruno as attacking midfielders with Greenwood on the right.
I would’ve started with Pogba on the left, Fred DM and both VDB and Bruno as attacking midfielders with Greenwood on the right.
This. Starting Rashford was a big mistake and keeping him on all game was an ever bigger one
What you just described, is a failure on Ole's part. The opposition played for PK, we should not be. Some decision should have been made in 70th to finish the game off, and the 1st name in my mind was Rashford. A 2nd decision need to be make around 90min, try to kill the game during ET. You should think about PK taker in the 110min.
I won't argue whether Fred is better choice than Matic or VDB, or Amad should be better than James. Those are more tactical consideration for Ole. But players failed to show up, should not stay after 70th. In fact, Mourinho infamously sub out sub-par players during 1st half, if necessary.
Not making subs earlier. Certain players always get loads of leeway from Ole and it's sickening to watch them stink up the pitch with how little they seem to care and just coast about on the pitch.
Rashford and Pogba should have been subbed by the 60th min so we can actually get players in who'll actually do something other than lose the ball everytime they try to dribble past someone.
Should have subbed Henderson for De Gea when it was coming to penalties because Dave is woeful when saving penalties.
Rashford and Pogba should have been subbed by the 60th min so we can actually get players in who'll actually do something other than lose the ball everytime they try to dribble past someone.
Should have subbed Henderson for De Gea when it was coming to penalties because Dave is woeful when saving penalties.
Well they weren't were they?I'd love to be in the room when you tell the likes of Pogba, Bruno, Cavani, Rashford, Shaw and De Gea that they are not good enough to beat Villareal in 120 minutes of football.
Is that still "TopRed"? I mean, it surely can be considered as disrespectful against the players. Is that ok, but it isn't when directed at the manager? Seems inconsistent to me.
And why pick out just our better players (who were actually some of our worst on the night)?
Nothing, we dominated the game and lost the game due to David missing a pen against Spanish 6-5-0 Spanish Burnley.
He didn't play the long game and was obviously trying to win it quickly. As soon as it went to ET, the outcome was pretty inevitable.
Should have played Pogba on the left and kept Rashford in the bench.
Should have either just started Fred or Matic/VdB next to McTominay.
I'm not saying these would have changed the outcome, but would have given us more to turn to later on. Our subs were horrific last night.
Should have played Pogba on the left and kept Rashford in the bench.
Should have either just started Fred or Matic/VdB next to McTominay.
I'm not saying these would have changed the outcome, but would have given us more to turn to later on. Our subs were horrific last night.
This.
We had two shots on target in 120 minutes. We didn't dominate shit.
Didn't have his best game?!
Running and trying??!?
Trying what? Sucking even more????
The boy was fecking clueless, a player down the whole game.
It's the kind of performance that loses you games, which it did for us.
Add to that a couple of more poor performers, like Paul, Bruno, Lindelof, Bailly, DDG and you lose the final vs a fecking Villarreal.
Agreed. Apart from maybe Hendo. I probably wouldn't have started him but I sure as hell would have put him on for the pens instead of wrong side Dave.
Should’ve made a change after the goal. We got lucky with the equaliser but after that we woke up and had all the momentum, we should have realised we were on top and gone for the kill. To keep the same team on for 90 minutes is baffling.
They had 1, we lost the game because Spanish Dave missed a pen, calm down fella.
There's 120 minutes before that shoot-out where we strolled around and wanted them to let us score. De Gea isn't to blame at all.
It was a tight final where they had 1 shot on target and we had 2 we lost the game due to Spanish Dave not saving a single penalty and missing the one he had to take, get over yourself.
His starting line up to put all eggs in one basket. He showed again that he has no plan B. His lack of in play tactical ability to change things up. His timing of subs when clearly there was a momentum change in the game.
His demeanour on the touchline was not what you would call inspiring. His decision to stick with Degea for the penalties instead of Henderson is hugely questionable with Degeas awful record.
It was as if he thought it would be written in the stars and a fairy tale ending for Degea to win it in the twilight of his career.
His demeanour on the touchline was not what you would call inspiring. His decision to stick with Degea for the penalties instead of Henderson is hugely questionable with Degeas awful record.
It was as if he thought it would be written in the stars and a fairy tale ending for Degea to win it in the twilight of his career.
1. Not making any subs before 90 mins to freshen up team and win the game.
2. Not making enough subs to change the game in ET
3. Not having balls to go for win in ET, we barely made any attacks
4. Even the dumbest poster on forums know how shit De Gea is at saving penalties and we have Henderson on the bench who has excellent record. Not subbing them was the biggest mistake.
5. Second biggest mistake was playing Rashford when he was so shit and then taking off Greenwood who was our most dangerous attacker.
6. Somehow thinking we can win Pens when we have De Gea as keeper.
2. Not making enough subs to change the game in ET
3. Not having balls to go for win in ET, we barely made any attacks
4. Even the dumbest poster on forums know how shit De Gea is at saving penalties and we have Henderson on the bench who has excellent record. Not subbing them was the biggest mistake.
5. Second biggest mistake was playing Rashford when he was so shit and then taking off Greenwood who was our most dangerous attacker.
6. Somehow thinking we can win Pens when we have De Gea as keeper.
The real problem comes from his squad management over the course of the season. He has overplayed certain players and now they are drained and cannot perform at anywhere near their best. But if we forget about that and just focus on last night then it’s clear that Rashford should not have started, he is out of form and leaves us with no option on the bench. It seems pretty obvious that Henderson should have started or been subbed on, it’s a bold decision but you need to have the balls to make these decisions as United manager.
This post is ridiculous. Ole got a sht ton of things wrong. Proof? We spent 120 minutes getting nowhere. Its was friggin obviously not working. I get his initial set up but then make changes. I would have brought Mata on for Greenwood, DVB on for Rashford and played Pogba on the left. Lets see their park the bus deal with Pogba, Fernandes, DVB and Mata paying triangles around them. Then I would have brought of De Gea for the pens.
Its not like this was a new situation. We have had this problem breaking down sides all season. He just doesn't dare bring off his favorites and will just leave them on the pitch till they drop. Im sorry but for this game I blame Ole 100 percent
Its not like this was a new situation. We have had this problem breaking down sides all season. He just doesn't dare bring off his favorites and will just leave them on the pitch till they drop. Im sorry but for this game I blame Ole 100 percent
Subs, that’s all he needed. We lost momentum and the energy had clearly dropped causing us to surrender the game to them. we could have gone on to finish them off but instead we decided to let the game go to a lottery.
Not normally one to criticise Ole, but that was terrible managment last night. We know at any moment Pogba, Bruno ,Rashford can do something but they were so bad last night that surely replacing them with a bit of energy and guile with VDB, Mata,James, Amad, Matic, Fred might have gotten us over the line.
We were lucky to get it to penalties by the end.
Blaming it all on De Gea is not fair. Lindelöf and partly Shaw where the main reason we conceded that 1 goal.
Rashford had, probably, his worst performance in a United shirt. Bruno was marked out of the game.
Against a team that just wanted to park the submarine we should have tried Mata and Diallo after around 70 mins to try and create something.
It was a poor performance from most of the team apart from McT and Cavani. Blaming all on one person is reactionary at best.
But it’s not necessarily a worse team. It didn’t take a genius to figure out that Villarreal were going to be defensively well organised and leave very little space, what we needed in the 1st half was not to throw every goalscorer we have in the team up front but to have a little more creativity in forward positions so we are better equipped to breaking them down. This means that Pogba should have played in the inside forward position.
In the 2nd half when the game is more stretched, more space and maybe against tired legs, we can bring on Rashford or Greenwood to exploit this.
I've long said he's gone as far as he can and this confirmed it
Why the hell did he take off Greenwood who "as the best finisher at the club" could surely take a penalty, and looked sharp whereas Rashy really didn't look right bar one good moment. Fortunately he did at least score his penalty
Throughout the games this season, he should have given Donny and Amad longer than 10 minutes max per game. Doing so would not only have given Rashy and Bruno more rests, but enabled him to get to trust them so they can be used in big games. Obviously Amad is younger, but DVB if played more could surely have been an option?
His absolute most fatal error was waiting for penalties in extra time with a goalkeeper we all know is bad at penalties. If you're going to do that, at least bring on Henderson who has saved 6 since DDG last saved one. I cannot guarantee he would have saved one, but surely he would have had a greater chance of doing so. DDG for several of the penalties just crumpled into a kneeling position, at least dive as you're blocking more of the goal, so have a greater chance of saving it. He then had his own tame effort saved. Very limp.
The only refreshing thing about the game was the quality of the outfield players penalties. Id love to know what happened in training, did we practice penalties. Surely it wouldn't hurt at the end of every training session to have the whole team put a penalty past DDG and a penalty past Hendon. Evey single session.
If we had been beaten by prime Barca ok fair enough but we should have beaten these, but Emery set up perfectly for his teams capabilities.
Why the hell did he take off Greenwood who "as the best finisher at the club" could surely take a penalty, and looked sharp whereas Rashy really didn't look right bar one good moment. Fortunately he did at least score his penalty
Throughout the games this season, he should have given Donny and Amad longer than 10 minutes max per game. Doing so would not only have given Rashy and Bruno more rests, but enabled him to get to trust them so they can be used in big games. Obviously Amad is younger, but DVB if played more could surely have been an option?
His absolute most fatal error was waiting for penalties in extra time with a goalkeeper we all know is bad at penalties. If you're going to do that, at least bring on Henderson who has saved 6 since DDG last saved one. I cannot guarantee he would have saved one, but surely he would have had a greater chance of doing so. DDG for several of the penalties just crumpled into a kneeling position, at least dive as you're blocking more of the goal, so have a greater chance of saving it. He then had his own tame effort saved. Very limp.
The only refreshing thing about the game was the quality of the outfield players penalties. Id love to know what happened in training, did we practice penalties. Surely it wouldn't hurt at the end of every training session to have the whole team put a penalty past DDG and a penalty past Hendon. Evey single session.
If we had been beaten by prime Barca ok fair enough but we should have beaten these, but Emery set up perfectly for his teams capabilities.
Him or Amad.
Think this is a good summary.
To add to it, no changes at 70min mark is just scandalous. As many have pointed, i would rather have an energetic James than a gassed out Rashford. Liven it up. Let the opposition respond rather than doing the same.
The resultant foot off the pedal in ET was heartbreaking. Never seen a more important time to go all out if you believe your stature as a team is superior.
Not putting on Henderson is also puzzling.
Basically all of this required making tough decisions that aren't "safe" and therefore can attract criticism. But he refused to take them and paid the penalty.
Great managers are born by taking a contrarion view and making unexpected things work. Fergie put Hargreaves on the right and played an all out 442 in the CL final. Ole has to learn quick. Else that will be his main failing.
Henderson save attempts would have looked less pathetic and maybe instilled doubt in the taker. In any case this is not a huge gripe for me because keepers are hardly ever switched out, it's just his overall game management left a lot to be desired.
Hes bought most of the squad. James dvb diallo. All could have came on earlier if he wanted to
Can I put it to the Caf that 80% of all goals we concede can be attributed to Shaw or Lindleof
What did we get right?
The team lineup was poor. Not necessarily the players, but the tactics. Pogba and McTominay don't work well together. Bailly and Lindelof are an accident waiting to happen without a screen in front of them. They were unable to get the ball forward quickly without a deeper midfielder and were taking 5 touches instead of 1 or 2. We tried to dominate high up the pitch and get the ball quickly to the forwards, but we had Rashford who is horribly out of form and wasn't chasing anything down. We made fairly obvious mistakes that lots of us pointed out from the start. It has memories of the PSG game.
Little needs to be said about the subs. Why keep a clearly knackered Greenwood on for so long and then remove him for penalties? Same for Pogba. Why did Rashford play the whole game? Why not bring on the pace of James earlier? Why not try VDB? Why not bring on a goalkeeper who can actually save a penalty? Why not make any sub until well into ET?
The team lineup was poor. Not necessarily the players, but the tactics. Pogba and McTominay don't work well together. Bailly and Lindelof are an accident waiting to happen without a screen in front of them. They were unable to get the ball forward quickly without a deeper midfielder and were taking 5 touches instead of 1 or 2. We tried to dominate high up the pitch and get the ball quickly to the forwards, but we had Rashford who is horribly out of form and wasn't chasing anything down. We made fairly obvious mistakes that lots of us pointed out from the start. It has memories of the PSG game.
Little needs to be said about the subs. Why keep a clearly knackered Greenwood on for so long and then remove him for penalties? Same for Pogba. Why did Rashford play the whole game? Why not bring on the pace of James earlier? Why not try VDB? Why not bring on a goalkeeper who can actually save a penalty? Why not make any sub until well into ET?
It’s all on Ole.
He’s not a manager, he was never a manager. Again and again he lets the club down. You let this squad play without him it’s going to be better. Only good thing about him, apparently, is that the players love him. And what’s this, kindergarten? You think SAF was loved by the players, no, he was feared, respected.
Yes some players didn’t turn up, but that’s why you have a manager, to sort the squad. When was the last time Rashford turned up (should have been a sub). Why not Diallo in? Why keep DDG for the pens??? When was the last one he saved? (Henderson saved 8 in the last 4 years). For the first couple of them, he was diving before even the ball was put on the spot. And what about their goal, simple, straight out from the training ground. Doesn’t Ole study the opponents? We are awfully prepared. We are a joke against set pieces.
He won’t bench players out of form, he won’t shout at them when they don’t turn up, of course they love him. And the owners love him cos he won’t stand up to them. He’s a puppet.
I had enough of this. Only reason I’m keeping my season ticket is cos I know that one day he will be gone. Sad days...
He’s not a manager, he was never a manager. Again and again he lets the club down. You let this squad play without him it’s going to be better. Only good thing about him, apparently, is that the players love him. And what’s this, kindergarten? You think SAF was loved by the players, no, he was feared, respected.
Yes some players didn’t turn up, but that’s why you have a manager, to sort the squad. When was the last time Rashford turned up (should have been a sub). Why not Diallo in? Why keep DDG for the pens??? When was the last one he saved? (Henderson saved 8 in the last 4 years). For the first couple of them, he was diving before even the ball was put on the spot. And what about their goal, simple, straight out from the training ground. Doesn’t Ole study the opponents? We are awfully prepared. We are a joke against set pieces.
He won’t bench players out of form, he won’t shout at them when they don’t turn up, of course they love him. And the owners love him cos he won’t stand up to them. He’s a puppet.
I had enough of this. Only reason I’m keeping my season ticket is cos I know that one day he will be gone. Sad days...
We basically threw away the extra time because our players were gassed. That's half an hour of football. You might say that our best players were on the pitch, but that doesn't matter if they can't run any longer.
To be fair they did that because there's probably little difference in the quality between those that started and the players on their bench (in a bad way). They were coming on to do a job in an ultra defensive set-up.
The lack of impact his substitutions had was probably the main issue yesterday. He's far too beholden to the big players in his team, backing the likes of Rashford or whoever to ultimately step up rather than thinking that a "lesser" but fresher player might make more of a difference in a game going 120 minutes.
The main problem in a more general sense though is that we've had a full season (or more) of being terrible from set-pieces and finding ourselves falling behind in games, yet Solskjaer and his coaching staff have been completely unable to address those problems. Being this bad at set-pieces this far into his managerial regime is criminal, really.
The main problem in a more general sense though is that we've had a full season (or more) of being terrible from set-pieces and finding ourselves falling behind in games, yet Solskjaer and his coaching staff have been completely unable to address those problems. Being this bad at set-pieces this far into his managerial regime is criminal, really.
Made mistakes and we should have had earlier subs, HT for example.
But once we got to ET, for all the "he should have put on DvdB/Amad/Fred earlier/etc", that would've meant subbing a likely penalty taker and I wonder if that influenced him.
Benching Rashford and bringing him on as a sub would have helped performance and given us one of the pen takers. Given form for a few months, starting him was a mistake and given his performance on the night, I'd have subbed him even if he was a penalty taker.
The biggest issue was how cagey we played (apart from moments). Players should have stepped it up and Ole should have screamed at them.. our team is made for quicker ball, if we lose it a few times but create more chances in other times, the net result should be better. We're NOT made for breaking an 8 man block.
But once we got to ET, for all the "he should have put on DvdB/Amad/Fred earlier/etc", that would've meant subbing a likely penalty taker and I wonder if that influenced him.
Benching Rashford and bringing him on as a sub would have helped performance and given us one of the pen takers. Given form for a few months, starting him was a mistake and given his performance on the night, I'd have subbed him even if he was a penalty taker.
The biggest issue was how cagey we played (apart from moments). Players should have stepped it up and Ole should have screamed at them.. our team is made for quicker ball, if we lose it a few times but create more chances in other times, the net result should be better. We're NOT made for breaking an 8 man block.
Our extra time performance was shocking. I mean we were shit the whole game but by extra time they were the only team that might go and win it. Greenwood looked dead on his feet when he came off. Absolutely bizarre to not make subs earlier. Sometimes you need fresh legs even if you're taking a better play off.
Beaten against a inferior team and yet again set pieces the buck will always stop with Ole. My opinion has never changed about him. He simply can't take us to that next level. He's improved as a manager, just not to our standards.
Starting Rashford.
Zonal defending against set pieces.
Substitutions.
Zonal defending against set pieces.
Substitutions.
By outcasting players like Van de Beek and Mata for much of the season, when a critical moment comes when you wish you could turn to them, the option closes up on you. That’s the skill of a top class manager to have these type of players ready to come on and change a game at any moment. You could argue it works both ways but ultimately, that’s what the manager is paid to do. Maximise the available talent in your squad when things aren’t going to plan.