German Football 20/21

[stefan92]

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I don't know what it is exactly, but that photo op somehow makes me cringe a bit. It looks so painfully arranged.

I see Bierhoff and Koch in that, that is enough to make me cringe, no matter what they are actually doing.

 

[Kasper]

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I don't know what it is exactly, but that photo op somehow makes me cringe a bit. It looks so obviously arranged that it's painful.

They`re trying to become more popular in the age of social media by copying AFTVs famous social distanced watchalong formation.

 

[do.ob]

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Hamburg have found a new coach as well. Who was the last one to survive his first season? Labbadia?

 

[stefan92]

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Hamburg have found a new coach as well. Who was the last one to survive his first season? Labbadia?

You are right (and that was in 2016). Hecking at least was fired after the season, not during it, so he exactly had one season there, but that's it. Every year a new coach tries to get them back to the first league, every year they fail. They really seem to be unable to build something. Giving a coach a year to settle and to develop his team, and then giving it a real challenge in the second season is something they spectacularly fail to do so.

And I do think they were absolutely right when they fired every single one of their coaches and did see no further improvement in the team, the funny thing is when it happens so often, can you really always blame the coach? They all seem to have lost the dressing room and the team always needed a new impulse (which was never enough), so why that happens is the real big question for Hamburg.

 

[do.ob]

You are right (and that was in 2016). Hecking at least was fired after the season, not during it, so he exactly had one season there, but that's it. Every year a new coach tries to get them back to the first league, every year they fail. They really seem to be unable to build something. Giving a coach a year to settle and to develop his team, and then giving it a real challenge in the second season is something they spectacularly fail to do so.

And I do think they were absolutely right when they fired every single one of their coaches and did see no further improvement in the team, the funny thing is when it happens so often, can you really always blame the coach? They all seem to have lost the dressing room and the team always needed a new impulse (which was never enough), so why that happens is the real big question for Hamburg.

I wouldn't say that they aren't building anything. Their points total is relatively stagnant at 56 -> 54 -> 58, but their GD suggests steady improvement at 45:42 -> 62:46 -> 71:44

Every year they are at or close to the top until they drop out of the promotion zone 2-3 games before the end, which suggests their problem isn't squad building or bad coaching in general, but the team cracking under the pressure of being a club like Hamburg in the second division. It's a bit like Schalke or Leverkusen when they got close to winning the league, the weight of winning their first title (in 50 or so years) and the memories of failed attempts just completely wrecked them on the finishing line.
So now they are in a spot where they basically have to try a new coach every year until they get lucky or they find a coach who is able to moderate that pressure or create so much of a cushion that they can't let it slip.

This actually reminds me of a funny article I've read a couple of days ago, though (un-)fortunately it's only SportBild.

They claim that Schalke's directors are analyzing Hamburg's games to avoid making the same mistakes. They have supposedly made out three key points:
1) Hamburg dropped a lot of points late into the game, so Schalke are looking for a workhorse that can close gaps even late into the game (Latza is supposedly such a signing).
2) This could be straight from the 90s and would be Schalke in a nutshell: Hamburg only fouled 8 times when they dropped it in Heidenheim under Hecking and only 7 times in a similar situation under Wolf. Therefore Schalke want to sign players who fight back.
3) It's important to have a goal getter, so they signed Terodde.

https://sportbild.bild.de/bundeslig...n-vom-hsv-versagen-lernen-76469028.sport.html

 

[stefan92]

I wouldn't say that they aren't building anything. Their points total is relatively stagnant at 56 -> 54 -> 58, but their GD suggests steady improvement at 45:42 -> 62:46 -> 71:44

Every year they are at or close to the top until they drop out of the promotion zone 2-3 games before the end, which suggests their problem isn't squad building or bad coaching in general, but the team cracking under the pressure of being a club like Hamburg in the second division.

That GD development is an interesting point I wasn't aware of. Might just prove how big their issue is in dealing with pressure. In a way you could say "it does not matter how much HSV dominates the league, they will still drop too many points in the end".

That SportBild article however...

1) is hardly rocket science but something obvious
2) might be a side effect of the general situation - when the pressure comes HSV don't fight back, they just let themselves be overwhelmed by the situation
3) It's important to score goals? Who would have thougt? And then signing the player who still was not good enough to get Hamburg back in the first league?

Especially 3) contradicts your GD observation a bit, which worries me for Schalke if that is one of their key insights they could from their analysis.

 

[do.ob]

That GD development is an interesting point I wasn't aware of. Might just prove how big their issue is in dealing with pressure. In a way you could say "it does not matter how much HSV dominates the league, they will still drop too many points in the end".

That SportBild article however...

1) is hardly rocket science but something obvious
2) might be a side effect of the general situation - when the pressure comes HSV don't fight back, they just let themselves be overwhelmed by the situation
3) It's important to score goals? Who would have thougt? And then signing the player who still was not good enough to get Hamburg back in the first league?

Especially 3) contradicts your GD observation a bit, which worries me for Schalke if that is one of their key insights they could from their analysis.

I wouldn't paint Hamburg's future that grimly. They always just barely missed promotion, it's not like they rely on some remnants of their Bundesliga squad, their sporting operation seems solid, so as long as they can consolidate their finances they are pretty much bound to return soon-ish.

I think that article is peak Bild bullshit, but it does fall into the same line of thinking that seems to have gotten Schalke where they are today. Focusing on getting someone who scores goals and some guys who kick their opponents, forgetting what happens in between.

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Fans know best, right?

 

[stefan92]

I wouldn't paint Hamburg's future that grimly. They always just barely missed promotion, it's not like they rely on some remnants of their Bundesliga squad, their sporting operation seems solid, so as long as they can consolidate their finances they are pretty much bound to return soon-ish.

I think that article is peak Bild bullshit, but it does fall into the same line of thinking that seems to have gotten Schalke where they are today. Focusing on getting someone who scores goals and some guys who kick their opponents, forgetting what happens in between.

I did not intend to make prediction about Hamburg - with the right mindset they should be able to get promoted quite soon, but I am just not sure when that will happen. Maybe once they accept that they are just another second-league club and don't have the feeling and pressure anymore to be seen as a "should-be-Bundesliga" club?

Schalke however... yes, I do hope that that article is not based on any insider information about Schalke, but more a very simple observation of their first steps on the transfer market now. If that was the level of analysis Schalke are doing I would have to be convinced that they not just get relegated again next season.

 

[Dans]

Seems BVB finances are worrying and they are 75m "short".

Cheeky Sancho bid for 50m incoming.........?

 

[stefan92]

Seems BVB finances are worrying and they are 75m "short".

Cheeky Sancho bid for 50m incoming.........?

That deficit is perfectly in the range what they expected due to Covid. Nobody will worry about that at Dortmund, they don't have to sell players due to that.

 

[Dans]

Not much room for investing in new players without outgoings I'd say. Given their pretty awful season I'd imagine they'll be wanting to make some changes.

 

[do.ob]

Dortmund have extended their line of credit to €120m and secured permission to issue close to 20 million shares at their last shareholder's meeting. Corona is as painful for Dortmund as it is for any club and I don't expend a lot of spending this summer, but they are probably among the club who were better prepared for it than others.

 

[do.ob]

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These bond borchures are a bit of a gold mine, when it comes to an honest situation report from clubs.

"There is a risk that as a result [of relegation] spending can not be fully adjusted to the reduced revenue or only over a longer time period and that the economical situation of the issuer will worsen to the point of an existential threat and possibly insolvency."

Also another screenshot stating that they would need to win back promotion immediately if they were to be further relegated, but I guess that was always obvious.

And like Werder, they will have to give DFL proof of their liquidity by next September or they will receive a six point penalty.

They have gotten a B- rating with a negative outlook. Which at best puts them in the 3%-8% risk category.

 

[stefan92]

Now it's official, the next part of the coach carousel: https://www.kicker.de/spannender-klub-glasner-wird-trainer-von-eintracht-frankfurt-805911/artikel

Oliver Glasner moves from Wolfsburg to Frankfurt where he replaces Hütter. Just to recall: Hütter replaces Rose at Gladbach, and Rose becomes the new lame duck at Dortmund with cup winner Terzic looming around as his assistant/obvious replacement.

Wolfsburg are expected to sign Mark van Bommel (currently unemployed) as their new coach, but that is not yet official.

 

[Hansi Fick]

simply bizarre

 

[mazhar13]

Honestly, Glasner leaving for Frankfurt is nuts, to me. He's in such a good position with that club, and he's moulded them into exactly what he wants out of them. Now, he's leaving a team in the CL to join a non-CL team that he'll need to build up to his vision with a completely different set of players.

My only thought is that Wolfsburg's hit their peak, and Glasner would rather join a club with more potential upside in Frankfurt. With that said, I don't see how they have more upside than Wolfsburg unless Wolfsburg are going to have an exodus of players.

 

[do.ob]

Honestly, Glasner leaving for Frankfurt is nuts, to me. He's in such a good position with that club, and he's moulded them into exactly what he wants out of them. Now, he's leaving a team in the CL to join a non-CL team that he'll need to build up to his vision with a completely different set of players.

My only thought is that Wolfsburg's hit their peak, and Glasner would rather join a club with more potential upside in Frankfurt. With that said, I don't see how they have more upside than Wolfsburg unless Wolfsburg are going to have an exodus of players.

His relationship with Wolfsburg's DoF was ruined, early in the season there were even reports of an immediate sacking, but then results started to pick up.

 

[stefan92]

Honestly, Glasner leaving for Frankfurt is nuts, to me. He's in such a good position with that club, and he's moulded them into exactly what he wants out of them. Now, he's leaving a team in the CL to join a non-CL team that he'll need to build up to his vision with a completely different set of players.

My only thought is that Wolfsburg's hit their peak, and Glasner would rather join a club with more potential upside in Frankfurt. With that said, I don't see how they have more upside than Wolfsburg unless Wolfsburg are going to have an exodus of players.

Actually it is not a surprise - Glasner clashed with Wolfburg's DoF Schmadtke in public and was the favourite to be the first coach sacked last season due to that. Somehow they pulled themselves together and endured the season, but it was always clear that there was no future for both of them at Wolfsburg. "kicker" went so far and commented that Marcel Schäfer (working below Schmadtke in their hierarchy) would be worthy of a peace noble prize for making it possible that the whole season worked out with Glasner and Schmadtke.

And additionally there where reports that the Austrian Glasner was a bit homesick and missing his family (especially due to the CoViD restrictions). Frankfurt is a bit closer to his home, and especially has the big international airport so you can very easily fly there, whereas Wolfsburg is just a bunch of boring nothingness far away from any relevant city and even was sometimes forgotten by the Intercity Express train. So all of this makes it quite understandable that he is leaving Wolfsburg and moving to Frankfurt.

 

[mazhar13]

His relationship with Wolfsburg's DoF was ruined, early in the season there were even reports of an immediate sacking, but then results started to pick up.

I feel like I've read something about that in the past, but if that's the case, then his exit comes as no surprise. Good on him for seeing the season out and qualifying Wolfsburg into the Champions League.

 

[mazhar13]

And additionally there where reports that the Austrian Glasner was a bit homesick and missing his family (especially due to the CoViD restrictions). Frankfurt is a bit closer to his home, and especially has the big international airport so you can very easily fly there, whereas Wolfsburg is just a bunch of boring nothingness far away from any relevant city and even was sometimes forgotten by the Intercity Express train. So all of this makes it quite understandable that he is leaving Wolfsburg and moving to Frankfurt.

That homesickness was why I was surprised as Glasner being linked to Frankfurt so strongly. Then again, your points are fair, and it also enables Glasner to continue working in a top league and with a decent club in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Blackwidow]

His relationship with Wolfsburg's DoF was ruined, early in the season there were even reports of an immediate sacking, but then results started to pick up.

Upps, and then think about somebody with the personality of Mark van Bommel with Schmadtke, the DoF of Wolfsburg... Just cannot imagine that...

 

[Cheimoon]

From what I understood of it, Van Bommel really wasn't a success at PSV. They started out fairly OK, but the football and interpersonal relationships deteriorated significantly over the course of 1.5 year in charge over there. @Eendracht maakt macht or @PSV could probably speak to this better, but he doesn't sound like a great choice for Wolfsburg; I wouldn't expect them to equal or better this season's performance with Van Bommel at the helm.

 

[Eendracht maakt macht]

From what I understood of it, Van Bommel really wasn't a success at PSV. They started out fairly OK, but the football and interpersonal relationships deteriorated significantly over the course of 1.5 year in charge over there. @Eendracht maakt macht or @PSV could probably speak to this better, but he doesn't sound like a great choice for Wolfsburg; I wouldn't expect them to equal or better this season's performance with Van Bommel at the helm.

I think there is a good coach in him somewhere. As you said he started of fairly well and finished quite close to the Ajax team who reached the semi finals of the Champions League. At the end everybody despised him though within the club. From medical staff to most players, to the board. He’s so stubborn it worked against him. He interfered with everything in the club which rubbed people the wrong way. He said in a interview he learned from it, but at the same time said that PSV wasn’t ready for him or something like that which said to me maybe he didn’t learn at all.

I’m surprised a fairly big club like Wolfsburg appoint him to be honest and hopefully he learned from his mistakes because he’s clearly knowledgeable about football and a strong character.

 

[do.ob]

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This now puts their signings at:
Kaiminski - 29 - CB
Victor Palsson - 30 - DM, as far as I understand he's a destroyer?
Danny Latza - 31 - DM, as far as I know he's a very defensive minded player as well
Simon Terodde - 33 - ST, supposed to guarantee 20-25 goals a season

It's just early days and several other players might be following, but one of their biggest problems was that they had zero pace and outside of Harit's individual moments zero ideas way of creating chances.

These signings don't appear to adress any of those problems. Infact stuffing your CM with defensive minded players and putting an old big man upfront might even exacerbate them.

 

[Zehner]

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This now puts their signings at:
Kaiminski - 29 - CB
Victor Palsson - 30 - DM, as far as I understand he's a destroyer?
Danny Latza - 31 - DM, as far as I know he's a very defensive minded player as well
Simon Terodde - 33 - ST, supposed to guarantee 20-25 goals a season

It's just early days and several other players might be following, but one of their biggest problems was that they had zero pace and outside of Harit's individual moments zero ideas way of creating chances.

These signings don't appear to adress any of those problems. Infact stuffing your CM with defensive minded players and putting an old big man upfront might even exacerbate them.

Look as if they built their transfer strategy on Stammtischweisheiten. Would think they headed straight into the next pub and simply did what the resident S04 fans proposed to them but then again they are all closed nowadays.

But there's still time to sign quality, so let's see.

 

[stefan92]

Look as if they built their transfer strategy on Stammtischweisheiten. Would think they headed straight into the next pub and simply did what the resident S04 fans proposed to them but then again they are all closed nowadays.

But there's still time to sign quality, so let's see.

There might be time, but I don't think there's money to do that. It will be interesting to see how their squad will look like in the end. So far I believe I do see a valid strategy:

• get rid of expensive deadwood (there might be the most difficult work to do)
• assemble a bunch of cheap/free experienced players to be the backbone of the team (that are the signings listed by @do.ob )
• complete the squad with talented players from their youth, pace and creativity would mostly have to come from here

I see these signings as a positive sign - they don't treat their relegation as something that shouldn't have happened and can be ignored, but they are actually adjusting to the second Bundesliga. That might in fact be something they really learned when they looked at Hamburg as I don't remember them to make such a bunch of focused signings especially for competing in the second Bundesliga.

Obviously there is no guarantee that this all works out but at least I see some sense to it.

 

[Zehner]

There might be time, but I don't think there's money to do that. It will be interesting to see how their squad will look like in the end. So far I believe I do see a valid strategy:

• get rid of expensive deadwood (there might be the most difficult work to do)
• assemble a bunch of cheap/free experienced players to be the backbone of the team (that are the signings listed by @do.ob )
• complete the squad with talented players from their youth, pace and creativity would mostly have to come from here

I see these signings as a positive sign - they don't treat their relegation as something that shouldn't have happened and can be ignored, but they are actually adjusting to the second Bundesliga. That might in fact be something they really learned when they looked at Hamburg as I don't remember them to make such a bunch of focused signings especially for competing in the second Bundesliga.

Obviously there is no guarantee that this all works out but at least I see some sense to it.

I might be wrong but in general, I'm not a big fan of buying in experience. Hierarchies aren't built over night. Of course there are examples of a player coming in and becoming a leader immediately but usually that requires that other players look up to him due to his merits. To me it seems that "bringing in experience" is often the first instinct of many clubs when they're in a crisis (as Schalke themselves did with Huntelaar, Mustafi and Kolasinac) and I rarely see it paying off. Might be wrong in this case, mind.

If I were a Schalke fan, I wanted them to understand this relegation as a chance for a true rebuild. They can get many expensive players off the wage bill (as you said) and can rework their structures and philosophy, set up for the future. I'd gladly accept a second or even third year in division 2 if it means that the club sorts out the problems that lead to the relegation and uses the time to build a profound foundation for good first division campaigns again.

What I wouldn't want them to do is to adapt to the league. I get that 2. Liga is a different competition and more reliant on mentality, fight and hunger but in the end, the clubs rely on those qualities because they lack elite players and coaching - things Schalke still has an easier access to than them. A club like Schalke should have higher ambitions than fighting his way back to the first division. Don't prioritize short term success over the long term.

 

[stefan92]

I might be wrong but in general, I'm not a big fan of buying in experience. Hierarchies aren't built over night. Of course there are examples of a player coming in and becoming a leader immediately but usually that requires that other players look up to him due to his merits. To me it seems that "bringing in experience" is often the first instinct of many clubs when they're in a crisis (as Schalke themselves did with Huntelaar, Mustafi and Kolasinac) and I rarely see it paying off. Might be wrong in this case, mind.

As I see it due to the structure of their squad and their contracts Schalke have to completely build a fresh new squad for next season. They need a mix of youth and experience for it. This is not a case of "adding some leaders to the team solves all issues" as they tried in the winter transfer window, this is about doing everything from scratch. And you can be sure that their youngsters will look up to people like Terodde.

What I wouldn't want them to do is to adapt to the league. I get that 2. Liga is a different competition and more reliant on mentality, fight and hunger but in the end, the clubs rely on those qualities because they lack elite players and coaching - things Schalke still has an easier access to than them. A club like Schalke should have higher ambitions than fighting his way back to the first division. Don't prioritize short term success over the long term.

You are right making that point. What you are completely overlooking is, that the same can be said about half the second league at least. I don't think a chaotic Schalke has better access to elite players or coaches than for example Hamburg who did fail to get promoted but nonetheless are working slowly for increasing their situation and have far less financial trouble as they adjusted to the league.

Paying elite players the amount you would have to to get them would lead Schalke to a final financial collapse if they are not promoted immediately. This should not be an option.

 

[Zehner]

As I see it due to the structure of their squad and their contracts Schalke have to completely build a fresh new squad for next season. They need a mix of youth and experience for it. This is not a case of "adding some leaders to the team solves all issues" as they tried in the winter transfer window, this is about doing everything from scratch. And you can be sure that their youngsters will look up to people like Terodde.


You are right making that point. What you are completely overlooking is, that the same can be said about half the second league at least. I don't think a chaotic Schalke has better access to elite players or coaches than for example Hamburg who did fail to get promoted but nonetheless are working slowly for increasing their situation and have far less financial trouble as they adjusted to the league.

Paying elite players the amount you would have to to get them would lead Schalke to a final financial collapse if they are not promoted immediately. This should not be an option.

Maybe I should've phrased it a little bit differently. I didn't intend to argue that they should just sign elite players and coaches immediately - that won't be possible. In general, I always find it a bit irritating if I hear that a club prioritizes the immediate "re-promotion". I get that there's much more money to earn in the first divison but with very few exceptions, a relegation is the result of a continuous negative development. So if you just try to get back into first division as soon as possible through short term measures (signing experienced players, immediate strengthenings, etc.), you took the short cut and most likely - even if you manage to get promoted immediately - just repeat the mistake that lead to your situation in the first place.

It's a too early to judge but these signings indicate this exact mindset, IMO. That a club like Schalke was promoted proves that many things are going significantly wrong in the club and they probably need more than one or two seasons to solve it. But if they sort these things out and launch a project with a real long term plan in mind, a club of their magnitude has an unreal attraction on players and coaches alike. Even in their current situation, they almost landed a high profile manager like Rangnick. That's what I mean. And in this sense, it doesn't really matter if they compete with the HSV or Bremen who are in similar situations. Take your time, rebuild and attack when you've dealt with what was holding you back. And most likely, just by fulfilling your potential in the early days of that project will be enough to get back into the first divison without struggling or fighting your way to a top three position. Break the spiral.

 

[stefan92]

Maybe I should've phrased it a little bit differently. I didn't intend to argue that they should just sign elite players and coaches immediately - that won't be possible. In general, I always find it a bit irritating if I hear that a club prioritizes the immediate "re-promotion". I get that there's much more money to earn in the first divison but with very few exceptions, a relegation is the result of a continuous negative development. So if you just try to get back into first division as soon as possible through short term measures (signing experienced players, immediate strengthenings, etc.), you took the short cut and most likely - even if you manage to get promoted immediately - just repeat the mistake that lead to your situation in the first place.

It's a too early to judge but these signings indicate this exact mindset, IMO. That a club like Schalke was promoted proves that many things are going significantly wrong in the club and they probably need more than one or two seasons to solve it. But if they sort these things out and launch a project with a real long term plan in mind, a club of their magnitude has an unreal attraction on players and coaches alike. Even in their current situation, they almost landed a high profile manager like Rangnick. That's what I mean. And in this sense, it doesn't really matter if they compete with the HSV or Bremen who are in similar situations. Take your time, rebuild and attack when you've dealt with what was holding you back. And most likely, just by fulfilling your potential in the early days of that project will be enough to get back into the first divison without struggling or fighting your way to a top three position. Break the spiral.

I agree with you on most things here, but not on Rangnick. Yes, there were talks with him, but nothing came out of it. I don't believe they were close to signing him, I think this was more a PR stunt for Rangnick's ego than anything else. Rangnick was in talks with too many clubs and refused to join all of them as I would believe that he is really interested, all of that leads me to believe that Rangnick does it to somehow elevate himself to some kind of mythical figure, the final saviour of a struggling club, if he deems a club worthy of his glorious presence (I might slightly exaggerate, but I think you get the point).

 

[Zehner]

I agree with you on most things here, but not on Rangnick. Yes, there were talks with him, but nothing came out of it. I don't believe they were close to signing him, I think this was more a PR stunt for Rangnick's ego than anything else. Rangnick was in talks with too many clubs and refused to join all of them as I would believe that he is really interested, all of that leads me to believe that Rangnick does it to somehow elevate himself to some kind of mythical figure, the final saviour of a struggling club, if he deems a club worthy of his glorious presence (I might slightly exaggerate, but I think you get the point).

Might be the case. Then again, Rangnick left Hoffenheim for RB which at the time consisted of an Austrian club and a team playing in Germany's fourth division. Generally, he's open to join long term projects even if it means he has to take a step back in the first place. IMO, the fact that he's in talk with so many clubs stems from the fact that he wants a big say in what is about to happen. He's attracted by potential more so than immediate success (which are easily among the biggest clubs in Europe) but his thirst for power doesn't go well with many traditional clubs at which many people are proud to hold important positions and won't let go of responsibilities, however unfit they may or may be. So it might generally be possible that he's doing it for the PR but I could also imagine he'd be willing to join these clubs generally speaking.

 

[do.ob]

There might be time, but I don't think there's money to do that. It will be interesting to see how their squad will look like in the end. So far I believe I do see a valid strategy:

• get rid of expensive deadwood (there might be the most difficult work to do)
• assemble a bunch of cheap/free experienced players to be the backbone of the team (that are the signings listed by @do.ob )
• complete the squad with talented players from their youth, pace and creativity would mostly have to come from here

I see these signings as a positive sign - they don't treat their relegation as something that shouldn't have happened and can be ignored, but they are actually adjusting to the second Bundesliga. That might in fact be something they really learned when they looked at Hamburg as I don't remember them to make such a bunch of focused signings especially for competing in the second Bundesliga.

Obviously there is no guarantee that this all works out but at least I see some sense to it.

Have you seen Schalke's youngsters? They have two talents who look like they genuinely belong in that squad: Hoppe, who I guess they just replaced with Terodde and Thiaw, who looks like he might be a (somewhat) promising CB - again a position where they just signed someone old. The rest (arguably this applies even to Hoppe) are just players they pulled up from their second team, which is mid table in the fourth division, out of desperation. It's not like they automatically rapid and good dribblers/playmakers just because they are young. At the moment it looks like their plan is to be hard to beat and hope Terodde can magically score goals. This has been a structural problem within their squad for years. And it makes it incredibly easy to defend against them, because the squad is simply unable to threaten an organized defense at all and way too slow to systematically play for counter attacks either. And given their name and their stadium a lot of teams will be more than happy to just line up with 3 DMs and leave it up to Schalke to expose themselves. I don't see how they can get even close to promotion with that plan, unless they somehow hold on to Harit and he's genuinely motivated, which doesn't exactly seem likely.

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Dortmund like their Swiss keepers.

 

[stefan92]

Have you seen Schalke's youngsters? They have two talents who look like they genuinely belong in that squad: Hoppe, who I guess they just replaced with Terodde and Thiaw, who looks like he might be a (somewhat) promising CB - again a position where they just signed someone old. The rest (arguably this applies even to Hoppe) are just players they pulled up from their second team, which is mid table in the fourth division, out of desperation. It's not like they automatically rapid and good dribblers/playmakers just because they are young. At the moment it looks like their plan is to be hard to beat and hope Terodde can magically score goals. This has been a structural problem within their squad for years. And it makes it incredibly easy to defend against them, because the squad is simply unable to threaten an organized defense at all and way too slow to systematically play for counter attacks either. And given their name and their stadium a lot of teams will be more than happy to just line up with 3 DMs and leave it up to Schalke to expose themselves. I don't see how they can get even close to promotion with that plan, unless they somehow hold on to Harit and he's genuinely motivated, which doesn't exactly seem likely.

Do you think that Schalke would have the money to do anything else than this desperation-driven squad building? I don't think they have a choice, but the result surely won't be great - but it might work to prevent a total collapse. I would not expect them to fight for promotion directly.

 

[do.ob]

Do you think that Schalke would have the money to do anything else than this desperation-driven squad building? I don't think they have a choice, but the result surely won't be great - but it might work to prevent a total collapse. I would not expect them to fight for promotion directly.

I think there is a real chance (20%?) that Schalke will get further relegated and/or file for bankruptcy in the next say three years. I don't expect them (or Werder) to be close to promotion next season.

But that's not what their officials are telling us, they are speaking of (and thus creating the pressure of) a promotion candidate, while building a team that looks like it's supposed to fight for a midtable position the old school way. And I think that dissonance creates a lot of problems of its own. They are setting the team up for a situation where everyone expects them to "dominate", but the reality is random dull football and then all these young players in midfield and attack while get pestered by reporters and have their huge, disappointed, crowd on their backs. It's a situation where the young players crack under the pressure and the more experienced players don't have the quality to turn things around.

I think one way or the other Schalke need to be more honest with themselves. If they are afraid to fall down even further, then they should temper expectations, tell the media and fans that experiencing both Corona and a relegation has crippled them and people need to show their youngsters some patience. I'm sure Schalke's fans would understand that.
Or they really are desperate for promotion, because they can not scale back their financial obligations quickly enough to sustain themselves on a 2nd division budget, then they shouldn't make all those safety first transfers, but go all-in on some gifted players from lower down the pecking order.

 

[Tacitus56AD]

I was just visiting espn.com to check when my mavericks are playing this night and stumbled across news that liverpool announced Konate`s signing.
" Liverpool have announced the signing of RB Leipzig defender Ibrahima Konate after triggering his €41.5 million release clause."

I know they allready signed one young talent (can`t think of the name right now), but how will Leipzigs defence look like the coming seasons knowing they lost both their starting CB`s in one transfer-window.Could be a rough transition for them.

 

[Acrobat7]

I was just visiting espn.com to check when my mavericks are playing this night and stumbled across news that liverpool announced Konate`s signing.
" Liverpool have announced the signing of RB Leipzig defender Ibrahima Konate after triggering his €41.5 million release clause."

I know they allready signed one young talent (can`t think of the name right now), but how will Leipzigs defence look like the coming seasons knowing they lost both their starting CB`s in one transfer-window.Could be a rough transition for them.

They signed CB Gvardiol fror €16 from Zagreb and CB Simakan for €15 from Straßburg.

 

[do.ob]

Willy Orban is also a pretty decent CB, who actually kept Konate out of the team in 2021. If just one of their new signings does as well as people seem to expect I don't think they will suffer too badly.

Attack still looks like a much bigger issue for them, especially with Marsch coming in for Nagelsmann.

 

[do.ob]

So I've stumbled upon this article:
https://www.kicker.de/bayer-senkt-dauerkarten-preise-bis-zu-30-prozent-805976/artikel

Leverkusen are dropping the price of season tickets by 30% and are trying to move the season ticket holders from seats in the upper tier to the lower tier. Both measures (moving season tickets to lower tiers -> move empty seats to the upper tiers and out of sight from most camera angles) strongly suggest that the club anticipates (even more) trouble to sell out their quite moderately sized stadium.

Now my perception is actually that people are really eager to get back into the stadiums, but I obviously don't have any surveys or similar stuff on that matter, so I've been wondering: is this just Leverkusen's fans turning on their club (because they have been a bit marginalized over the years?!)? Or is this a general trend, applying to a lot of clubs, that I've been missing?

 

[Blackwidow]

I actually do not know how the fans will react. Yes, there will be a big amount that will rush into the stadiums - but there will be another part who will hesitate because of the risk that might still be there. And I do not think that this is just about football but about any kind of public events or public situations or travelling.

 

[do.ob]

I actually do not know how the fans will react. Yes, there will be a big amount that will rush into the stadiums - but there will be another part who will hesitate because of the risk that might still be there. And I do not think that this is just about football but about any kind of public events or public situations or travelling.

Will there really be so many hesitant people? By September I assume everyone will have been (offered to be) vaccinated, there's already infrastructure to test everyone that has not been tested yet and football games are open air events anyway. Going by what I see on the streets I wouldn't expect a significant part of the population/fan base to shy away from a stadium visit. Clubs like Leverkusen usually have very cheap tickets to begin with, a further 30% discount sounds quite desperate.